Does CB Now Become a Necessity Early in 2022 Draft

[BearNorth]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look at starting CB’s in the NFL (esp CB1), they are mostly first and second round picks. That’s just the reality. Guys like Norman, Sherman are the rare exceptions to the rule. 
 

i just pulled up this PFF list of top CB’s in the NFL, and they are pretty much all 1st and 2nd round picks.

 

it’s just a position where draft position correlates much more highly to NFL success. 
 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-cornerback-rankings-the-32-best-outside-cornerbacks-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

 

Looking at a recent first round mock, I'm seeing 6 CB's, 2 iDL, 5 EDGE, 2 iol [G/C], 2 LB, 2 OT, 4 QB [in a bad class], 3 S, and 6 WR's.

 

We have needs at CB (Tre/ Wallace in a contract year), iOL [G/C] (our hot garbage guards/Morse getting old), Edge (Hughes), and slot W/R to replace Beas.

 

I'm thinking CB, Guard, Edge, Slot

[boater]

McDermott and Bean seem to like drafting Best Player Available rather than drafting to fill specific positional needs.

 

Having said that, I hope CB comes up as BPA. You can never have too many good CB.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I’d still put WR, but we’ve needed a CB forever.

[DJB]

37 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

I don't like this phrase anymore.  It reminds me of Boogie Basham

 

And Epenesa and Ford? Because none of those guys were BPA

[Process]

9 minutes ago, boater said:

McDermott and Bean seem to like drafting Best Player Available rather than drafting to fill specific positional needs.

 

Having said that, I hope CB comes up as BPA. You can never have too many good CB.

I don't think they've shown that at all. 

 

I think it's pretty clear they went out of their way the last two drafts to get McDermott toys for his 20 man d line rotation. And it's hurting us big time now. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

The only position we dont need is QB. 

 

 

Take the best player available period. 

 

People say that, but it assumes there is some master list comprised of perfectly correct, objective information, listing the players in order according to quality.   There is no such list!  

My point is the Bills (and everyone else) have NO IDEA who the "best player" available is at any level.

 

We need to address specific needs anyway.

 

A DB is always a great idea; after QBs and WRs, it's arguably the most important position on the team.

 

The OL needs attention as well, and I would prioritize that over DB at this point, notwithstanding the injury to Tre.

 

 

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

They will have plenty of cap space next year.  That said, I would be fine with your approach.  I would disagree that starter quality C/G's are cheap though.  Dumpster diving for guys like Feliciano may be cheap but they would have to pay a premium to get a top 15 C/G

It’s not just about next year.  It’s about the salary cap going forward.

 

It’s true.  C and G are both on the lower half of positions salaries.  Guard $ is rising with the last few contracts given to the browns guards.  But still in the lower half of the pay scale.  
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

 

Rb, FB and MLB are the only positions lower.  Well, they list corners as lower too, but that’s all corners lumped into one, while there should be 2 categories- corners and slot corners imo.  Slot corners would be MUCH lower than G and C, while outside corners would be higher imo.  Even safeties are paid more than G and C.  

 

 

 

[NewEra]

40 minutes ago, gordong said:

Being back and playing at an all pro level are two very different things, it almost always takes two years to fully recover from an acl tear. We are going to need to draft a corner early next year .  We are not in horrible shape but this is going to hurt the defense which means we need the offense to step up and start playing like they can every week. 

You haven’t even seen how our defense performs with the guys that we have.  This isn’t a question to be answered now.  I’m quite confident that, as of right now, Brandon Beane hasn’t come to the conclusion that we have to draft a CB high. And if I happen to be wrong, and he thinks we have to draft a CB, that Tre’s injury has nothing to do with him thinking that way. 
 

yes.  Tre may not be 💯 come the start of the season, but he will be a starter next year.  Taron will be a starter next year. Levi may or may not. Dane may or may not.  When strategizing about what we will do at the Cb position, the GM MUST start with the players on the roster.  That’s what he’s going to do.  He’s going to try out some FAs and try to find some diamonds in the rough, while bringing our guys along and deciding if they should be part of the team going forward.  How they play will likely dictate whether or not we draft a CB high in next years draft.  I consider high to be 1st or 2nd rd.  

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

I see several mocks with Ahmad Gardner - CB Cincinnati going to the Bills at 21.  6-3 200, not your typical CB size.  Interesting prospect.

21???

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Process said:

NO

 

Enough defense with our early picks. We are young at CB, sign a vet in FA. 

 

The offense needs to be the main focus next off season. G, G, WR, RB, TE. 

 

Our O needs a mini rebuild, we need another playmaker desperately, we need to get younger and meaner.

I’m in total agreement besides this draft is loaded with CBs. My wish is Trevor Penning and Breece Hall. I’d play Penning at RT, move Brown to the left and put Dawkins at a guard position. Breece Hall is another version of Jonathan Taylor, IMO

[Buffalo ill]

Biggest, nastiest, best available O lineman with every pick.

[BillsFanSD]

CB was an area of need even before this injury.  Now, I think it's practically essential to invest in the position since Tre's recovery is going to have some uncertainty associated with it.

 

Don't care whether that happens in the draft or free agency.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s not just about next year.  It’s about the salary cap going forward.

 

It’s true.  C and G are both on the lower half of positions salaries.  Guard $ is rising with the last few contracts given to the browns guards.  But still in the lower half of the pay scale.  
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

 

Rb, FB and MLB are the only positions lower.  Well, they list corners as lower too, but that’s all corners lumped into one, while there should be 2 categories- corners and slot corners imo.  Slot corners would be MUCH lower than G and C, while outside corners would be higher imo.  Even safeties are paid more than G and C.  

 

 

 

Wrong mindset. They should be all in now and next year.  Otherwise they waste Allen's best years. Who cares about the cap in 2023.

[TheBeaneBandit]

24 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I’m in total agreement besides this draft is loaded with CBs. My wish is Trevor Penning and Breece Hall. I’d play Penning at RT, move Brown to the left and put Dawkins at a guard position. Breece Hall is another version of Jonathan Taylor, IMO

You are the man with the plan love this scenario. Josh Allen off of a dominating run game would be devastating. I would just leave the tackles at their current spots though.

Edited November 27, 2021 by TheBeaneBandit
Change of plans

[EmotionallyUnstable]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

And there's nothing stopping us from discussing it now. It's not like we're the team and have to be super focused on new england, it's possible to discuss multiple topics at once. If you don't like it don't click on the thread. 

Fair enough. 
 

I respect that. Just seems a bit quick to whip out the old mock draft machine with more than 6 games to go (and a deep playoff run on top of it).

 

[Mattymafia]

I would still focus the first 2, if not 3, picks on offensive line. Our corners have been great, Tre will be back next year and hopefully the Bills can get a team friendly deal for Levi again. I dont see cornerbacks as as big of a need as interior offensive line, if the bills have competent guards, they are a superbowl contender with the rest of the roster. 

[DCbillsfan]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

And Epenesa and Ford? Because none of those guys were BPA

Certainly can't defend taking Ford.  Bills saw him as an OT while other teams saw him as a guard.  I'm too lazy to look up Epenesa ranking but I'll take your word for it.

 

BPA is usually the way to go but the Bills were jammed with DL guys when they took Basham.  Now he's in street clothes most games.  Someone posted a few weeks back there are 10 OL guys drafted after Basham who are playing significant snaps.  One of which is the Steelers starting center Kendrick Green.

Edited November 27, 2021 by DCbillsfan

[NewEra]

24 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Wrong mindset. They should be all in now and next year.  Otherwise they waste Allen's best years. Who cares about the cap in 2023.

I mean….did you see what we did this offseason?  Far from all in.  As much as I agree, we should be going all in, I don’t think it’s going to happen with these guys.  These guys are all about sustained success and, imo, that means never going all in.  
 

I agreed with you all offseason. Neither of us thought Beane handled the offseason properly.  
 

I disagree that these are Allens best years. He’s not a RB or a new pair of sneakers.  His salary cap was the lowest during these years, if that’s what you mean.  Best chance to spend lots of money around his rookie contract.  But I hope and believe that josh will be a better qb in 3-5 years than he is now. Beane and co looks to be playing this this long term and give him the ability to have a good shot at the title every year as opposed to a great shot in a couple years. 
 

Which is the correct way to build a winner? Dunno, but Super Bowls can be won in multiple ways of team building.  Beane is going to do it his way and going all in is unlikely imo. 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, thronethinker said:

With our lack of CB depth

 

I stopped right there. I keep hearing this and I have yet to see the factuality of that statement on field.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Beast

[Sweats]

Granted a CB/DB is always a necessity, however, if this FO ignores the OL for another year, someone should get fired.

[LeGOATski]

BPA

[In Summary]

If it's a necessity, Beane will first sign a free agent before the draft as is his way.  He will also draft a corner if they are BPA at a position of need (which will depend on the FA he signs).  Beane = Free Agency to fill holes followed by drafting BPA at position of need or expensive position.  (I don't buy that he truly drafts BPA)

[thurst44]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

 

And Epenesa and Ford? Because none of those guys were BPA

How was Epenesa not BPA--perhaps by your evaluation, but he was a first rounder in most mocks and we got him late in the 2nd round. He could not be more the definition of BPA. He was also a need, but those things aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Ford is easy to say in retrospect. Beane and McDermott seemed to think he was the BPA at the time and he was not considered a reach at the time.

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

How was Epenesa not BPA--perhaps by your evaluation, but he was a first rounder in most mocks and we got him late in the 2nd round. He could not be more the definition of BPA. He was also a need, but those things aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Ford is easy to say in retrospect. Beane and McDermott seemed to think he was the BPA at the time and he was not considered a reach at the time.

Yep, they take BPA on their board. The draft is for getting great players. FA is for filling needs.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I don't think CB has moved to the top of their "needs" list but if the right player is there they will take him.    They would probably have done so this past draft as well if the right player was there.   Tre White will be back and be fine.    He's a great athlete and a dedicated pro.    Rod Woodson tore his ACL in summer and came back in January to play in the Super Bowl.   I fully expect him to be fine next season.

 

From everything we heard they scouted the corner class this past season pretty heavily the draft just never really fell for them at that spot. The 1st round guys were gone before 30 and the 2nd round guys were gone before their 2nd round pick. Wasn't a deep group. 

 

I think you are right that it doesn't exactly become need #1 because Tre will be back next year but I wouldn't have been surprised to see them go there anyway in the first couple of rounds and they very well might. Personally I'd prefer they go offense in round 1. Josh is the only first round pick on that entire side of the ball (obviously Diggs was later a traded 1st) and I think at times this year it has shown. Either a stud tackle or another difference maker at receiver would be nice. 

4 hours ago, Process said:

NO

 

Enough defense with our early picks. We are young at CB, sign a vet in FA. 

 

The offense needs to be the main focus next off season. G, G, WR, RB, TE. 

 

Our O needs a mini rebuild, we need another playmaker desperately, we need to get younger and meaner.

 

Guard is a position you tackle in free agency and then a day 3 flier in the draft. I would not rule out a tackle early though if there is one there. Dawkins has struggled this year (possibly with mitigating factors, granted) but you could bump him inside to left guard if you found a tackle. 

[BillsVet]

7 hours ago, boater said:

McDermott and Beane seem to like drafting Best Player Available rather than drafting to fill specific positional needs.

 

Having said that, I hope CB comes up as BPA. You can never have too many good CB.

 

It's way too early to be thinking draft strategy, even after this injury.  

 

But, they've already used 4 of 6 1sts on defense during the McBeane years with the only offensive picks used on Josh and acquire Diggs.   

 

For a team ranked 2nd in defensive spending, there's a point where the offense is falling behind to staff the defense.  

 

I don't see the value behind another defender when they've already allocated significant resources on that side of the ball. 

 

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

I think that we should draft a first round corner, even if involves a costly trade up. As for safety, perhaps we can trade away our 1st round pick in 2023. After all, one of ours could get injured before then (you never know). 

For many years the Bills have made DBs our top priority. You can’t argue with results, right?

[HOUSE]

The only way to find an affordable shut down corner is the draft. A quality FA corner is beyond our budget

 

Yes, draft a top CB even if Brandon Beane needs to move up

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

12 hours ago, Sweats said:

Granted a CB/DB is always a necessity, however, if this FO ignores the OL for another year, someone should get fired.

Absolutely. Now is the time to sink resources into the line. Allen would be lethal if he had a great line and running game.

[Mr. WEO]

no

[jethro_tull]

draft a good backup and get a decent back in FA.  

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i think they go corner or at least a DB of some kind in the first two rounds. I was worried about our safeties already getting up there in age. 
 

Corner is one of those positions too where you need to invest a 1st or 2nd round pick. Not a lot of elite “sleepers” you can get later on. 

 

I disagree.  DB is a position where teams regularly find talent in the mid and late rounds ... and sometimes even from the ranks of UDFAs.  First and second rounders frequently start as rookies while DBs taken later in the draft may take a few years to become starters, but they can end up just as good.   I think that other than QB, a team can find starters anywhere in the draft if they do a good job scouting college talent.  

 

[TBBills]

I would rather get OL first, Beane doesn't have a good track record with drafting those. Get one early when the chance of them becoming  good are higher.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  DB is a position where teams regularly find talent in the mid and late rounds ... and sometimes even from the ranks of UDFAs.  First and second rounders frequently start as rookies while DBs taken later in the draft may take a few years to become starters, but they can end up just as good.   I think that other than QB, a team can find starters anywhere in the draft if they do a good job scouting college talent.  

 

i could be wrong— But if you look at the good starting CB’s in the NFL over the last 20 years, they almost all have been 1st and 2nd round picks. No doubt that there are some exceptions (like Richard Sherman), but they seem rare.  It’s why the eagles under Reid used to draft CB’s in the first or  second rounds just about every year.
 

Just look at the top 20 CB’s in the NFL now.  They are almost all 1st and 2nd round picks. 

 

 

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, Purplebulldog said:

I would draft a db every year

 

It doesn't have to be in early in the draft, however.

 

 

1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Absolutely. Now is the time to sink resources into the line. Allen would be lethal if he had a great line and running game.

 

Totally agree.  Even great QBs need protection and targets.   Allen has targets but he hasn't always had protection.  If the Bills had a better OL, the running game would be better even without better RBs, and that would afford Allen better protection when defenses have to be worried the run.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

16 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

And there's nothing stopping us from discussing it now. It's not like we're the team and have to be super focused on new england, it's possible to discuss multiple topics at once. If you don't like it don't click on the thread. 

I’ll give the poster the benefit of the doubt that he meant “we can discuss this in the off season , rather than the myriad of imbecilic topics that litter these forums”   😂😂

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's way too early to be thinking draft strategy, even after this injury.  

 

But, they've already used 4 of 6 1sts on defense during the McBeane years with the only offensive picks used on Josh and acquire Diggs.   

 

For a team ranked 2nd in defensive spending, there's a point where the offense is falling behind to staff the defense.  

 

I don't see the value behind another defender when they've already allocated significant resources on that side of the ball. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.........but the talk about needing to draft a CB early here will dissipate quickly if damage in the passing game is limited over the next 2 weeks.

 

I'm still not convinced they will lose Levi Wallace in free agency either.  Despite earning positive reviews for his play.  Any detail conscious organization will be able to see that free agent CB's from McDermott's system haven't translated well elsewhere.   That's why the Bills were surprisingly able to non-tender him and make him a UFA last year and still re-sign him for cheap.   There is a lot of help built into the system.

 

So they might even have Tre, Wallace and Johnson all back together next season with Jackson, Lewis and McCloud in reserve.    If they picked a CB early he could end up in a Boogie Basham situation where a top pick ends up inactive every week.    A lot to play out there yet.

 

It's not like the OL where things are bad and it's pretty clear they are only going to get worse on the interior if they don't address it this offseason.    Or at WR where they are aging out at a couple positions with Beasley and Sanders.   Or TE where they only have Knox and then nothing at all.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Agreed.........but the talk about needing to draft a CB early here will dissipate quickly if damage in the passing game is limited over the next 2 weeks.

 

I'm still not convinced they will lose Levi Wallace in free agency either.  Despite earning positive reviews for his play.  Any detail conscious organization will be able to see that free agent CB's from McDermott's system haven't translated well elsewhere.   That's why the Bills were surprisingly able to non-tender him and make him a UFA last year and still re-sign him for cheap.   There is a lot of help built into the system.

 

So they might even have Tre, Wallace and Johnson all back together next season with Jackson, Lewis and McCloud in reserve.    If they picked a CB early he could end up in a Boogie Basham situation where a top pick ends up inactive every week.    A lot to play out there yet.

 

It's not like the OL where things are bad and it's pretty clear they are only going to get worse on the interior if they don't address it this offseason.    Or at WR where they are aging out at a couple positions with Beasley and Sanders.   Or TE where they only have Knox and then nothing at all.

 

 

I don't think an early drafted corner would end up sitting. I don't love our depth at all at the spot. Agree we might not lose Levi. Can see him doing another cheap 1 year deal, but he has had probably his best season as a pro so far and he equally may think now is the time to try and cash in. If that happens I think Dane could probably handle the duties as the #2 outside guy. My worry the rest of the season is they are both lower ceiling #2 types that you wanna give help. If we drafted a guy early then unless they whiff on the pick he would start IMO. 

 

But I agree the priority should be offense. Essentially if you are building the board as the Bills GM this year you want to have receivers, tackles and corners in each round who you would target. 

 

Here is a question.... has an NFL team ever had two starting offensive tackles out of Northern Iowa on the same line? Because what I have seen so far of Trevor Penning (and admittedly film on him is limited) he looks like he might jump into the back end of the first round. He is huge and he is nasty. He would bring a bit of attitude to an oline that has been beaten up too often. And has anyone told Beane that the Northern Iowa Football team are known as the Panthers? Cos that must count for something in the evaluation process!

 

[HappyDays]

Rather than trying to replace White for however long he'll be inactive or below his current level of play, the Bills should instead be looking to improve the offense to compensate for the defense's loss. White's role isn't going to be replaced that easily. But last year we had a below average defense carried to the AFCCG by an elite offense. That can happen again if resources are used properly. Next year I envision an elite offense with much improved pass protection, and White returning to his normal level of play in the back half of the season just in time to make a deep playoff run.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think an early drafted corner would end up sitting. I don't love our depth at all at the spot. Agree we might not lose Levi. Can see him doing another cheap 1 year deal, but he has had probably his best season as a pro so far and he equally may think now is the time to try and cash in. If that happens I think Dane could probably handle the duties as the #2 outside guy. My worry the rest of the season is they are both lower ceiling #2 types that you wanna give help. If we drafted a guy early then unless they whiff on the pick he would start IMO. 

 

But I agree the priority should be offense. Essentially if you are building the board as the Bills GM this year you want to have receivers, tackles and corners in each round who you would target. 

 

Here is a question.... has an NFL team ever had two starting offensive tackles out of Northern Iowa on the same line? Because what I have seen so far of Trevor Penning (and admittedly film on him is limited) he looks like he might jump into the back end of the first round. He is huge and he is nasty. He would bring a bit of attitude to an oline that has been beaten up too often. And has anyone told Beane that the Northern Iowa Football team are known as the Panthers? Cos that must count for something in the evaluation process!

 

 

 

Yeah it's important to not forget that priority #1 of any NFL team should be to make the QB look good.

 

If the Bills want to preserve Josh Allen...........and in doing so keep themselves relevant in the NFL........then they need to remember that on draft day because the Cam Newton impersonation he's doing this season isn't likely to be sustainable. 

 

Yeah I am very interested in Penning for the Bills.  

 

The re-emergence of New England in particular could lead to the Bills going back to a more physical approach on offense and Penning makes sense.    They are in a good position contract-wise in the coming seasons with Dawkins as well........he'd be a bargain even as a guard(where I think he'd be excellent).

 

 I could see them addressing both OT and TE in the first 3 rounds.    And WR is a big need, IMO as well.

 

I value CB play........CB1 is an elite money position.........but I think what this defense will still need most is a finishing pass rusher.    Things are lining up for a potentially reasonable Khalil Mack trade this offseason but it's likely to require one of those first 3 picks at least.   Whereas they might be able to get a physical upgrade over Levi and Dane at a bargain rate in UFA.