How many people don't like Allen's new deal?

[PonyBoy]

2 hours ago, Putin said:

I could be wrong but can’t remember Brady winning a SB with a middle of the pack defense and no running game , 

 

Fair point, but can we agree Allen & new regime are in very early stage of getting to above middle of pack defense & mediocre run game? Time will tell, Bills haven't had a qb break any of Kellys records, get to an AFC championship game in 25 years. Patriots and Brady were an anomaly, i think most if not all Bills fans would take just one Superbowl and be content to leave this planet. 

[GoBills808]

52 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Love that QBs are locked up long term.

 

Roster quality will be hurting down the line 100%

 

All teams with highly paid QBs will hurt their rosters sometime after their extension.

 

We wont be seeing that for a couple of years which is good...but 3 years from now if we dont have a superbowl ring....the team wont be any better than it is now, makes it harder to win.

 

Things that will help, keep the roster sound:

 

Vets taking discounts to stay or come and join the team for a run. 

Allen taking discounts.

Drafting hit after hit.

 

 

Don’t forget practices. When these guys are going against each other in training quality begets quality. Brings the whole roster up organically.

[Capco]

9 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Hate it. Even with the way it is structured, the Bills will regret giving him this extension.

 

 Josh will turn into another fat rich kid

 

 

 

 

 

Is... is that real?  

 

I'm assuming this is JaMarcus Russell?

Edited August 8, 2021 by Capco

[78thealltimegreat]

11 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I have a few Pats fans still as friends (I lived quite a few years near Boston) and already got 2 text from them....they are trying to justify among themselves how this is a terrible deal for the Bills, that they overpaid for a QB that will be the 2nd or 3rd best in the division 2 years from now..etc, etc.

You’re friends with Boston sports fans? There is no worse fanbase in sports then people who support teams from that city and that includes Philadelphia   

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

Love that QBs are locked up long term.

 

Roster quality will be hurting down the line 100%

 

All teams with highly paid QBs will hurt their rosters sometime after their extension.

 

We wont be seeing that for a couple of years which is good...but 3 years from now if we dont have a superbowl ring....the team wont be any better than it is now, makes it harder to win.

 

Things that will help, keep the roster sound:

 

Vets taking discounts to stay or come and join the team for a run. 

Allen taking discounts.

Drafting hit after hit.

 

 

Franchise QBs don’t grow on trees and it’s the chance you take it’s not like anyone wants to go back to the days of evaluating college players by mid season and hoping we tank for a draft pick that was our philosophy on the Bills fan boards for like 15 years 

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I'm laughing while typing "only $40M" but in 2028 bridge QBs will be making 30-35 million.

 

This contract will be a bargain if Allen continues to evolve as certain draft experts thought he would. His performance versus an ever-increasing salary cap would become relatively cheaper and cheaper as the Bills enter a period of...

 

 

Kiper-inflation.

 

 

[bills522]

13 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

This thread might not go anywhere, but in light of most of people I have talked to loving the deal, does anyone not like it?

 

Either when they heard about the deal it just didn't seem right?

Or maybe they think it is a bad deall all around for the Bills?

 

I'm just curious as to the actual percentage of fans that may not be on board with it, because since yesterday, it seems to me like 95% + love it.

 

I know we have a huge thread on this, but I was hoping to see the results of a poll, a 'quick look' at responses as an alternative to spending hours reading through the tread and mentally tallying the opinion.

Well there's your answer, just over 1% didn't like it 😆 

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

No problem - after your next response to me - that made sense.

 

I know we don’t agree much, but I do respect what you bring to the board.  That was why the response made no sense to me.

👍🏻 Appreciated.  The feeling is mutual my friend 

[BuffaloBills1998]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

The thought of Mason Rudolph being the Bills QB……should’ve caused everyone nightmares.  He was being projected as a possible target prior to us trading up.  I had him rated as the 2nd worst player on earth. 2nd only to peterman after I was lucky enough to attend the charger game in 2017

To be honest I think that was all a smokescreen. I guarantee if we didn’t get Allen, then we most likely would’ve ended up with Rosen which still at the end of the day we’d still be screwed. But I highly highly doubt Rudolph was going to be a Buffalo Bill 

[Putin]

Who are the 3 stooges who hated the deal?

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

To be honest I think that was all a smokescreen. I guarantee if we didn’t get Allen, then we most likely would’ve ended up with Rosen which still at the end of the day we’d still be screwed. But I highly highly doubt Rudolph was going to be a Buffalo Bill 

Yeah, I didn’t think Beane was an idiot….. it was pretty obvious that Rudolph was a bum….but I’m a bills fan and I suffer from ptsd because of it.   I don’t the bills put out any smokescreens about Rudolph.  It was mainly mock drafts and a couple posters that got me thinking about it

[Augie]

4 hours ago, HOUSE said:

We could have gotten the other Josh cheaper

 

Ralph? Is that you???  

 

😳

[eball]

I feel like anyone making the “he only did it for one year” argument still falls into the category of those who never liked the pick in the first place.  There is, quite literally, NO evidence to suggest what Josh did last season, or the consistent improvement he has made since coming into the league, is unsustainable or a “flash in the pan.”  The best I’ve heard some come up with is that he may struggle with fans in the stands — which cracks me up.  Over his first two seasons Josh actually played better on the road than at home.

 

If you’re not over-the-moon about this team-flexibility-friendly deal to lock down an elite QB through 2028 I have no idea what is going through your mind.  Well, I have some idea…and I want no part of it.

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 hours ago, HOUSE said:

We could have gotten the other Josh cheaper

And got a better deal for him at the garage sale.  WNYers drive a hard bargain.

13 minutes ago, eball said:

If you’re not over-the-moon about this team-flexibility-friendly deal to lock down an elite QB through 2028 I have no idea what is going through your mind.  Well, I have some idea…and I want no part of it.

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

22 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Many of them think it is a given [the Pats*] are going to be 12-4 or 13-3 this year...

You should remind your friends that Bill Belichick has a LOSING record without Tom Brady as his starting QB.

[BarleyNY]

I like it.  It is the market value deal that Allen earned and it got done at a time that made a lot of sense for both sides.  Allen didn’t take a discount, but I didn’t expect him to.  And there is nothing wrong with that. 

[Gen2]

I love it, basically he plays this year on his rookie contract, plays next year on his fifth year option, and the contract $$$$ don't really come into effect until his third year. IMHO, Josh's dollars will be peanuts compared to what QBs at his current level will be demanding.

 

What intrigues me is what kind of contracts Mayfield and Jackson will get. Mayfield (through no fault of his own) hasn't put up a season comparable to Allen, but with his new found continuity is on an upward trajectory. Jackson DOES have an MVP season under his belt, however his performance seems to be on a downward trajectory. Could the Ravens be "stunting his growth" as a QB by relying on his running abilities?

 

The way I see it Mayfield COULD demand more money than Allen, but he really doesn't have anything to back up his demands, and Jackson COULD demand more money based on his MVP season, but do the Ravens see him as a glorified running back who can throw the ball and expect him to hit the wall physically in the next few years or as a developing QB?   

[Eastport bills]

How could any rational fan not love this deal. First, it will look better and better compared to the inflated #s after the cap increases. Next, this incredible talent, bent over backwards to give us flexibility to fill holes in the roster with the way the deal is structured. Compared to the atrocity Dak signed, this deal is a godsend. Not to mention Dak is a far cry from our guy.

[US Egg]

The dust hasn't settled yet. 2021 will be the defining season.

 

.....for the whole gang at OBD.

[Virgil]

Up to 43 people who are wrong.  Good to know. 😋

[Alphadawg7]

On 8/7/2021 at 6:40 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea, but cap space...

First, I LOVE THE JOSH ALLEN CONTRACT (all caps for enthusiasm)!!!!   It was a great deal for both sides and that contract will be a bargain soon enough.  If the NFL was doing a redraft of the NFL, I think more often than not Allen is probably the second pick behind Mahomes right now.

 

Nothing but respect for you Gunner, but at the end of the day you’re wrong in how you seem to completely dismiss the importance of it, just like the people who are totally OCD and overly obsessed with cap space are also wrong.  Truth is that it definitely matters and is important, and the great GMs make it look easy while lesser GMs bungle it all the time.  You are not wrong in how some people overly exaggerate or obsess with it though.  

Allen’s contract is a brilliant example of how to use cap space.  And not every GM gets this right.  Cap management is absolutely critical in how you both build a championship roster and maintain a championship roster.  Beane has built this team to contend a long time by locking up guys like Tre, Dion, Allen, Milano, Diggs, etc long term on deals that give us the ability to also keep Edmunds and others.  And they are all under 27 years old.  
 

Beane has put on a clinic on how to repair and clear out the cap for a rebuild while acquiring draft assets to rebuild a team.  Then he was excellent in how he used that draft capital and cap space to build a team, and do it in a way that put him in prime position to retain that talent once it developed.

 

There is a bloody road of GM dead careers who did it all wrong.  I feel like Beane has changed Buffalo so much in his time here that people forget what it was like to have leadership who made so many mistakes.  
 

Cap space is not the only important thing obviously, drafting the right players, signing the right players, hiring the right coach, etc are all critical and very important.  But how the GM manage things like the cap and draft capital along the way is critical in being able to both retain said players and still keep adding more talent going forward to the overall team.

 

IMHO, Beane is the best GM in football right now, and is definitely without question top 3.  And his cap brilliance and draft management is definitely an important part of why that is the case.  

Edited August 9, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

First, I LOVE THE JOSH ALLEN CONTRACT (all caps for enthusiasm)!!!!   It was a great deal for both sides and that contract will be a bargain soon enough.  If the NFL was doing a redraft of the NFL, I think more often than not Allen is probably the second pick behind Mahomes right now.

 

Nothing but respect for you Gunner, but at the end of the day you’re wrong in how you seem to completely dismiss the importance of it, just like the people who are totally OCD and overly obsessed with cap space are also wrong.  Truth is that it definitely matters and is important, and the great GMs make it look easy while lesser GMs bungle it all the time.  You are not wrong in how some people overly exaggerate or obsess with it though.  

Allen’s contract is a brilliant example of how to use cap space.  And not every GM gets this right.  Cap management is absolutely critical in how you both build a championship roster and maintain a championship roster.  Beane has built this team to contend a long time by locking up guys like Tre, Dion, Allen, Milano, Diggs, etc long term on deals that give us the ability to also keep Edmunds and others.  And they are all under 27 years old.  
 

Beane has put on a clinic on how to repair and clear out the cap for a rebuild while acquiring draft assets to rebuild a team.  Then he was excellent in how he used that draft capital and cap space to build a team, and do it in a way that put him in prime position to retain that talent once it developed.

 

There is a bloody road of GM dead careers who did it all wrong.  I feel like Beane has changed Buffalo so much in his time here that people forget what it was like to have leadership who made so many mistakes.  
 

Cap space is not the only important thing obviously, drafting the right players, signing the right players, hiring the right coach, etc are all critical and very important.  But how the GM manage things like the cap and draft capital along the way is critical in being able to both retain said players and still keep adding more talent going forward to the overall team.

 

IMHO, Beane is the best GM in football right now, and is definitely without question top 3.  And his cap brilliance and draft management is definitely an important part of why that is the case.  

 

I never said cap space doesn't matter. But it is an absolute obsession on here. The cap and draft picks are a means to an end. That end is to have good players. The Bills have good players. They don't need bundles of cap room nor should they expect to have bundles of cap room for the next 8 years (at least). But they have Josh Allen. That matters way more. 

 

And I agree Beane is a top 3 or 4 GM in the league. He has had his missteps but he has got far more right than wrong. The only thing I would say is he is fortunate he works with Sean McDermott who has absolute trust and faith in him and a clear vision for what this team needs to be. Not all GMs are that fortunate. When you go through and rank GM-HC-QB packages I have the Bills and Chiefs as the clear 1 & 2 in the entire NFL. 

[Mango]

Has anybody paid attention to the expected/adjusted cap year over year on spotrac.? It is listing the cap in 2026 as $600M. If that is the case, this JA contract is a STEAL!

edit: I most definitely read that wrong. That’s the Bills cap space assuming they don’t renew or sign anybody from 2021 to 2026. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Mango
I am an idiot

[BigAl2526]

Accepting the reality of the NFL and the valuations that premium QBs command across the league, I'm happy with the deal.  It would be wonderful if he were to commit to 10 years and 20 million per year, that would be wonderful.  That would allow the Bills to keep a bunch of really good players on the team around Allen.  Unfortunately, that line of thinking is a pipe dream.  This is about as good as we can hope for.  Inn a couple years when contracts for top QBs have compensation of 45 - 50 million per year, this is going to look really good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I'm just not completely sold on him yet.

 

 

Perhaps you should hang with Bill Barnwell

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I never said cap space doesn't matter. But it is an absolute obsession on here. The cap and draft picks are a means to an end. That end is to have good players. The Bills have good players. They don't need bundles of cap room nor should they expect to have bundles of cap room for the next 8 years (at least). But they have Josh Allen. That matters way more. 

 

And I agree Beane is a top 3 or 4 GM in the league. He has had his missteps but he has got far more right than wrong. The only thing I would say is he is fortunate he works with Sean McDermott who has absolute trust and faith in him and a clear vision for what this team needs to be. Not all GMs are that fortunate. When you go through and rank GM-HC-QB packages I have the Bills and Chiefs as the clear 1 & 2 in the entire NFL. 

 

Ok fair enough, maybe its that you come off so dismissive on cap management because you are countering those that are too far the other away in terms of their obsession with the cap.  The board around here can make one do that for sure.

 

And yes, without question, Bills and Chiefs are 1 & 2 in terms of the GM/HC/QB combo in the entire league, and 3rd IMHO is a distant 3rd in that regard.  

 

And as far as what you said on the cap, that is something I 100% agree with.  The cap is there to retain good players and its dumb when people get upset that it gets used for that.  Especially given how well Beane has structured the contracts.  I cant fathom how anyone could be anything but thrilled with the Allen contact personally.

 

What I will add though, is that too many GM's aren't protective enough on that cap space and waste money on bloated contracts trying to buy progress rather than grow their own.  But that also starts and stops with their draft record.  If they cant draft the right talent to retain, it forces them to over pay for free agent talent, or trade away draft picks to get costly proven talent, to close the talent gap.  

 

But at the end of the day, I feel like Beane has put on a masterclass to the rest of the NFL in how to truly do a full rebuild into a championship roster.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Ok with it as long as he doesn’t Flacco it up. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

Has anybody paid attention to the expected/adjusted cap year over year on spotrac.? It is listing the cap in 2026 as $600M. If that is the case, this JA contract is a STEAL!

 

 

The Spotrac 2026 cap estimates are $248M.  It shows a rollover of $368M because there are no contracts signed to lower it.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2026/

[Mango]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The Spotrac 2026 cap estimates are $248M.  It shows a rollover of $368M because there are no contracts signed to lower it.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2026/

I think you caught this before my edit. 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think you caught this before my edit. 

 

Oops.  I happened to be in the thread when you posted and I "immediately" went to Spotrac to see.

LOL.  GMs would be spending like drunken sailors.

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I'm just not completely sold on him yet. I tend to agree with Skip Bayless about Allen and just haven't seen enough out of him to justify the hype. 

 

Hope he proves me wrong.

 

Skip Bayless says controversial nonsense for shock value to get clicks and listeners. He's a fan just like us. Did he like the mindless contract that his boy Dak got? Josh is a freak athlete who has superior leadership skills and is driven to be great. His work ethic is legend and he loves the city and Bills fans. He stands up after losses and takes full responsibility without ever blaming coaches or teammates. He's improved by leaps and bounds every year. His team loves him and he won 2 playoff games in year 3. Feel free to jump on board when you wake up.

[FilthyBeast]

The only criticism which has obviously been pointed out is that Allen has only had one good  year in this league and not won a championship yet like Mahomes before he got his mega deal and that's a huge amount of pressure on Allen, Beane and the whole organization frankly to live up to that type of billing because we are essentially saying Allen is a top 3 NFL QB by handing out this type of contract.

[WhoTom]

6 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

we are essentially saying Allen is a top 3 NFL QB by handing out this type of contract.

 

He came in second for league MVP.

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:06 PM, HOUSE said:

 

The guys nuts, grab em

 

[GoBills!]

Wish it was a bit lower, we all have high expectations this season but the market is likely to only go up so like Tre it will probably look like a good deal in 2-3years.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I'm just not completely sold on him yet. I tend to agree with Skip Bayless about Allen and just haven't seen enough out of him to justify the hype. 

 

I have no idea how anybody could have watched his total command of the offense, his world-class field vision and his ability to feel the pocket while hunting targets last year and think they haven't seen enough.

He's literally become one of the best 2-3 QB's on the planet right in front of our eyes; what the ***** more do you want to see?!

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

The only criticism which has obviously been pointed out is that Allen has only had one good  year in this league and not won a championship yet like Mahomes before he got his mega deal and that's a huge amount of pressure on Allen, Beane and the whole organization frankly to live up to that type of billing because we are essentially saying Allen is a top 3 NFL QB by handing out this type of contract.

One good year in 2019 and followed by an MVP caliber year in 2020.

[HardyBoy]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:57 PM, unbillievable said:

 

 

Allen's cap number balloons to 50mil in 2025 which would be 20% of the projected salary cap of that year. His cap number is shaped like a Bell curve, which means they probably have to restructure.

 

The highest QB Sap % to ever win a Superbowl is 12% (Eli Manning).

 

 

Reading through the thread and was going to bring up % of the cap. My guess is it will be structured to take a certain percentage of the cap regardless of actual dollars and evaluated every couple of years. Think what % that is will be based on performance and would vary. 

 

 

[reddogblitz]

We are officially out of QB purgatory.  Getting out is never cheap.  Now its up to Beane to be able to sign qualify talent with less money and Coach McDermott to coach 'em up.  And of course Wonder Boy holding up his end of the bargain. I think they can do it.

[HardyBoy]

30 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

One good year in 2019 and followed by an MVP caliber year in 2020.

Well said, but more accurately, one really bad half of a season where he still did amazing things, then it literally clicked for him on a play where he himself says he knew exactly what was happening for the first time and the game actually slowed for him leading to a chunk play stepping up in the pocket throwing with anticipation on which he hurt his elbow. 
 

He’s been at worst alright since he came back from the injury he got against Houston his rookie year, spent a bunch of time being solidly good and then a third of his career being mvp caliber, without a running game and a defense that couldn’t get off the field before the red zone the first half of the year last year. 

If anyone wants to look at a good example of what an exponential growth curve looks like it’s Allen and he’s still very much at the start of what is going to be his best quality IMO, which is his intelligence and game recognition. 
 

He also had like the biggest leap in pff’s stable statistics ever (stats that say it’s sustainable) and they were mediocre in a lot of ways. That’s not a knock, that’s we are about to witness something we’ve never seen before. Also not saying Allen was lucky, his skill set makes those possible and changes the math. That said, those sideline passes to Davis in the colts game while the result of incredible skill, the degree means an inch off and it’s a different story. When his stable stats grow exponentially again though this year….oh boy and you know Beane is fully aware of what they needed to see from Allen in camp to prove I’m directionally right to have signed them to the deal. 
 

buckle up

 

[Nelius]

7 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I'm just not completely sold on him yet. I tend to agree with Skip Bayless about Allen and just haven't seen enough out of him to justify the hype. 

 

Hope he proves me wrong.

 

 

What year is this, this reads like a post from two years ago. Dude, Skip Bayless? C'mon. If 45 TDs in the regular season and the Conference Finals isn't enough to inspire hope, then I really don't know what to say. If nothing else I'd consider listening to every other talking head that likes this deal rather than Skip Bayless, who's entire thing is to come up with awful, annoying, contrarian takes about every single subject...