Bills' O-Line depth is remarkable

[Inigo Montoya]

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[billsfanmiamioh]

It reminded me of what the patriots have been able to do. 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

I think we have really good depth, but that statement is definitely not true

 

Allen masks a lot of the deficiencies honestly

 

Nsekhe would have the best chance at starting on other teams probably, and he couldn't even start really at Washington

 

We have a lot of guys who can play in our system

Edited November 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think we have really good depth, but that statement is definitely not true

 

Allen masks a lot of the deficiencies honestly

 

Nsekhe would have the best chance at starting on other teams probably, and he couldn't even start really at Washington

 

We have a lot of guys who can play in our system

 

Hey 716  

 

I agree with you that Allen is incredibly slippery back there and a bull to bring down when they finally do get to him, but I'd respectfully disagree with the rest of your position.  

 

Carson Wentz has been sacked 32 times this year.  Joe Burrow has been sacked 28 times. Daniel Jones 23, Watson and Minshew 22 each.  Sacks are just one metric of O-Line play, and Josh took a boatload today, but I think today's sack total has to be put into context.

 

The Seahawks were bringing 6 or 7 defenders every down.  Jamal Adams basically spent the entire second half of the game lined up as a third DE and all he did was rush the QB.  The Bills didn't even pretend that they were going to run the football.  The O-Line played great today despite the sacks given up and with four out of the five lineman either playing out of position or as backups.  Allen threw the ball 38 times today, and not counting Allen scrambles, we only ran the ball 11 times all game.  I think the only designed run for Allen was the sweep around the right end for the TD.

 

I don't think that Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger would have any difficulty finding a starting gig on one of the other 31 teams in the League.  Quality O-Linemen are always at a premium, especially in week 9 of a season.  

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Hey 716  

 

I agree with you that Allen is incredibly slippery back there and a bull to bring down when they finally do get to him, but I'd respectfully disagree with the rest of you position.  

 

Carson Wentz has been sacked 32 times this year.  Joe Burrow has been sacked 28 times. Daniel Jones 23, Watson and Minshew 22 each.  Sacks are just one metric of O-Line, play and Josh took a boatload today, but I think today's sack total has to be put into context.

 

The Seahawks were bringing 6 or 7 defenders every down.  Jamal Adams basically spent the entire second half of the game lined up as a third DE and all he did was rush the QB.  The Bills didn't even pretend that they are going to run the football.  The O-Line played great today despite the sacks given up and with four out of the five lineman either playing out of position or as backups.  Allen threw the ball 38 times today, and not counting Allen scrambles, we only ran the ball 11 times all game.  I think the only designed run for Allen was the sweep around the right end for the TD.

 

I don't think that Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger would have any difficulty finding a starting gig on one of the other 31 teams in the League.  Quality O-Linemen are always at a premium, especially in week 9 of a season.  

Originally you said, all of our backups would walk into starting roles on other teams

 

That makes it sound like they could all find multiple teams where they could start at, pretty easily

 

Everybody here thought Spain was a quality lineman, and he is pretty good. And he's on a practice squad

 

Line play has as much to do with your system and the people around you as it does with your talent. Wyatt teller is playing like a man possessed, and he was just all right here

 

The right system can do wonders for your career, they're all professionals

 

I still think ty would have the best chance at starting on another team. I don't think Bates could start at center when all centers are healthy, he'd have a chance with a few teams at guard same with Ike. but then again there's 20 other backup guards in the NFL who think the same way

 

We have cohesion, which is huge

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Inigo Montoya]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Originally you said, all of our backups would walk into starting roles on other teams

 

That makes it sound like they could all find multiple teams where they could start at, pretty easily

 

Everybody here thought Spain was a quality lineman, and he is pretty good. And he's on a practice squad

 

Line play has as much to do with your system and the people around you as it does with your talent. Wyatt teller is playing like a man possessed, and he was just all right here

 

The right system can do wonders for your career, they're all professionals

 

I still think ty would have the best chance at starting on another team. I don't think Bates could start at center when all centers are healthy, he'd have a chance with a few teams at guard.. but then again there's 20 other backup guards in the NFL who think the same way

 

We have cohesion, which is huge

 

 

 

Agree with with you that system fit is huge, but Teller is doing great in a different system and he couldn't crack the lineup here.  I think the only reason Spain is on the practice squad is because he had to clear COVID and get a practice or two in before he plays.  I'd be willing to bet you a Ted's hotdog he starts next week. To your last point, the Bills O-Line is playing great despite a lack of cohesion. I'm not sure there have been two games in a row where the same 5 linemen have lined up in the same position all season due to the coach's tinkering and injuries.

Appreciate the civil exchange 716, unfortunately that's not always the case here.   👍

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think we have really good depth, but that statement is definitely not true

 

Allen masks a lot of the deficiencies honestly

 

Nsekhe would have the best chance at starting on other teams probably, and he couldn't even start really at Washington

 

We have a lot of guys who can play in our system

 

Ty would start on other teams, Ike and Bates probably could start on a few teams that are banged up but are more so in the high end backup range. 

 

At full strength the Bills have two starting caliber oline players on the bench in Ty and Winters and then two high end backups in Ike and Bates. It's very strong depth.

[Punching Bag]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Originally you said, all of our backups would walk into starting roles on other teams

 

That makes it sound like they could all find multiple teams where they could start at, pretty easily

 

Everybody here thought Spain was a quality lineman, and he is pretty good. And he's on a practice squad

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tyler Dragon

 

@TheTylerDragon

·

Oct 31

 

The Bengals have elevated guard Shaq Calhoun and guard Quinton Spain from the practice squad to the active roster for Sunday’s game. #Bengals

[Buffalo716]

23 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Agree with with you that system fit is huge, but Teller is doing great in a different system and he couldn't crack the lineup here.  I think the only reason Spain is on the practice squad is because he had to clear COVID and get a practice or two in before he plays.  I'd be willing to bet you a Ted's hotdog he starts next week. To your last point, the Bills O-Line is playing great despite a lack of cohesion. I'm not sure there have been two games in a row where the same 5 linemen have lined up in the same position all season due to the coach's tinkering and injuries.

Appreciate the civil exchange 716, unfortunately that's not always the case here.   👍

The cohesion I'm talking about is mainly they are all on their second year practicing together, at least. Besides Williams

 

And I always try to be civil. I wouldn't be here just to be a douche

Edited November 9, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The OL depth is very solid but boy was it stretched thin. 

[JMF2006]

The kid did get sacked 7 times  

 

Although slippery little Wilson got sacked 5 times and hit 16 times.

 

Any stats on how many times Josh got hit?

 

First half the O line gets an A

 

Second half a C

[Bigantall]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

You call seven sacks high level hmm

[Codyny13]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

So not firing Beane this week?

[BillsFanThru-N-Thru]

14 minutes ago, Bigantall said:

You call seven sacks high level hmm

Not all the blitzing defenders were the responsibility of the OLine ... TEs and RBs missed blocks and assignments

 

[Inigo Montoya]

4 minutes ago, Bigantall said:

You call seven sacks high level hmm

 

You don't explode for 449 yards of offense and score 44 points with bad O-Line play. So yeah, I'd say that the O-Line played at a high level yesterday.  The game I watched showed Allen with enough time to make the throws he needed all day long.  Kinda hard to put up the stat line Allen did without solid O-Line play.  If you feel the seven sacks trumps the offense's production yesterday and is the key metric to judge the O-Line's play against Seattle, have at it, but I'd respectfully disagree. 

[Brennan Huff]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

The kid did get sacked 7 times  

 

Although slippery little Wilson got sacked 5 times and hit 16 times.

 

Any stats on how many times Josh got hit?

 

First half the O line gets an A

 

Second half a C

Seattle was blitzing on almost every play

[SCBills]

I don’t know what the cap looks like this offseason, but Daryl Williams and Jon Feliciano have to be priories 1A and 1B over Matt Milano.   If we can get Milano done, great, but keeping this OL together needs to be an offseason goal.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Wasn't Allen sacked a bunch? I wouldn't brag about that performance by the depth.

Edited November 9, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[Kwai San]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Originally you said, all of our backups would walk into starting roles on other teams

 

That makes it sound like they could all find multiple teams where they could start at, pretty easily

 

Everybody here thought Spain was a quality lineman, and he is pretty good. And he's on a practice squad

 

Line play has as much to do with your system and the people around you as it does with your talent. Wyatt teller is playing like a man possessed, and he was just all right here

 

The right system can do wonders for your career, they're all professionals

 

I still think ty would have the best chance at starting on another team. I don't think Bates could start at center when all centers are healthy, he'd have a chance with a few teams at guard same with Ike. but then again there's 20 other backup guards in the NFL who think the same way

 

We have cohesion, which is huge

 

 

 

Wyatt Teller was a guy I thought the Bills would really be able to leverage and be valuable.  Oh well.  The boys did a good job yesterday.....a few of those sacks are just on JA - he needs to dump that ball and live to play another play.

 

Go BILLS!!!

[Motorin']

I've been thinking, does the Bills O-Line seem better with Feliciano back, even with Morse out? 

[Ramza86]

Its good to see we didnt collapse after a couple of guys went down. 

 

Thats about it for me.

 

Allen got rid of the ball a lot which helped. I imagine if we tried to run, wed struggle.

[Motor26]

They can’t run block at all, but are solid in pass pro. 

[BillsBytheBay]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Hey 716  

 

I agree with you that Allen is incredibly slippery back there and a bull to bring down when they finally do get to him, but I'd respectfully disagree with the rest of your position.  

 

Carson Wentz has been sacked 32 times this year.  Joe Burrow has been sacked 28 times. Daniel Jones 23, Watson and Minshew 22 each.  Sacks are just one metric of O-Line play, and Josh took a boatload today, but I think today's sack total has to be put into context.

 

The Seahawks were bringing 6 or 7 defenders every down.  Jamal Adams basically spent the entire second half of the game lined up as a third DE and all he did was rush the QB.  The Bills didn't even pretend that they were going to run the football.  The O-Line played great today despite the sacks given up and with four out of the five lineman either playing out of position or as backups.  Allen threw the ball 38 times today, and not counting Allen scrambles, we only ran the ball 11 times all game.  I think the only designed run for Allen was the sweep around the right end for the TD.

 

I don't think that Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger would have any difficulty finding a starting gig on one of the other 31 teams in the League.  Quality O-Linemen are always at a premium, especially in week 9 of a season.  

 

Seattle pinned their ears back the whole game, and Allen still had time on many plays.  The fact that 7 guys had 20+ yard receptions shows that.    I think the whole room works well together. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength. 

 

I have to look more carefully but I think there was a dip.  But, it has to be sorted out carefully because it's also clear that the SeaSnakes got desperate and started to just bring the house on every snap. 

 

I agree, though, that the Bills have built quality depth on OL.  It wasn't until a good bit into the game that the announcers even commented that the Bills were playing backups at 4 out of 5 positions.

 

[NewEra]

It’s crazy how bad Juan Castillo is at coaching the OL.  I still hate that guy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Bigantall said:

You call seven sacks high level hmm

 

7 sacks are not necessarily on the OL.  It's on the QB to recognize and call protections - Allen admitted that he needed to do so on a couple of those sacks. 

 

Seattle was running a lot of safety blitzes in the 2nd half.  Sometimes it's on the RB or TE to pick up the blitz.  Knox missed his block Big Time on one Adams sack.  I was disappointed in him 😥 but maybe it's rust he'll shake off. 

 

And sometimes there's a man free and it's "on" the QB to hit his hot read or otherwise evade.

 

 

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Wasn't Allen sacked a bunch? I wouldn't brag about that performance by the depth.

 

See above post.  That's not necessarily on the O-Line per se

 

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

I've been thinking, does the Bills O-Line seem better with Feliciano back, even with Morse out? 

 

Heretical, but I have had that thought, especially for run blocking.  On Josh's TD run, I don't believe Morse makes that cut block.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

7 sacks are not necessarily on the OL.  It's on the QB to recognize and call protections - Allen admitted that he needed to do so on a couple of those sacks. 

 

Seattle was running a lot of safety blitzes in the 2nd half.  Sometimes it's on the RB or TE to pick up the blitz.  Knox missed his block Big Time on one Adams sack.  I was disappointed in him 😥 but maybe it's rust he'll shake off. 

 

And sometimes there's a man free and it's "on" the QB to hit his hot read or otherwise evade.

 

 

 

See above post.  That's not necessarily on the O-Line per se

 

 

Heretical, but I have had that thought, especially for run blocking.  On Josh's TD run, I don't believe Morse makes that cut block.

 

Agree with all of this. I thought there was a dip but not a collapse. Boettger and Bates are guys the Bills have invested a lot of development time in.... to see them rewarded by serviceable performances in recent weeks is satisfying.

 

The sacks were for the most part not on the line as I saw them from the TV angle - definitely one on Knox and one on one of the backs (think was Singletary but would need to look again) and one on Josh holding it too long - but I loved that on that play he recognised it and as the guy got to him gave himself up and cradled the ball as opposed to trying some of the mad ***** he has in the past. It was one of my favourite Josh plays of the day as crazy as that sounds!

 

And you are 100% right on the Josh TD run. Morse doesn't make that block. I said it last year and I will say it again.... I am not totally sold that Morse is the best centre on the roster.... (though he has played better in 2020 than 2019). He is better in pass protection but definitely worse than Feliciano in the run game. Of course our best five has both Morse and Feliciano out there - which means Feliciano at Guard so it is a moot point at the moment.

Edited November 9, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Victory Formation]

Bates and Boettger were highly impressive.. almost feel like they should be starting... Mongo at center is not a bad reality.

[First Round Bust]

as complete victory by the offense as I  ever saw in 50 years of watching and or trying to watch the Bills; the play calls were great by the OC; Josh was at his best even tho sacked a bunch; the O-Line did the best they could and man the WRs with those patterns, catches and YACs...add a great game by the special teams and a crazy D effort against a great qb with a SB ring and perhaps the best WR in the game....maybe the best team effort victory this century ?

Edited November 9, 2020 by First Round Bust
punk-two-asian

[Hebert19]

Josh has 4 days to throw back there usually and when he doesn't he buys himself 4 days.   That must be so maddening for d coordinators.  

[machine gun kelly]

16 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

A good point backing this up is Spain gets cut by us, and in three days is a starting Lineman for Cincy.  Beane has tried his best on both lines to provide depth.  On D, Star was a kick in the teeth, but we’re managing.  I’m so impressed not with run blocking as we have room to improve, but pass pro has been excellent.  Josh May have been sacked 7 times Sunday, but you have to ask was it the line, the QB, or a TE or RB who didn’t chop block.  In 2018, remember how fast they were in on Allen as a rookie and he had to take off and run not to get his head knocked off.

Sorry guys, chip block.  God I hate auto correct.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It was incredible to watch the Bills' O-Line continue to play at a high level when three starters went down today with injuries.  All of our backup linemen would walk into starting roles on other teams. Morse went down last week and Feliciano stepped in seamlessly to man the pivot.   At various points in the game today Ford, Winters, and Williams all left the game and in came Bates, Nsekhe, and Boettger and the O-Line never missed a beat.  In the last two weeks we have replaced everyone on the O-Line except Dawkins and there was no noticeable dip in performance.  How many teams in the NFL could replace four starting offensive lineman without getting smoked? The Bills went from having arguably the worst O-Line in football two seasons ago to having the deepest line in the League.  Kudos to the brain trust at OBD for turning a glaring weakness into a team strength.  

 

 

We pretty much went with the same philosophy with the D line too, lots of depth with mid level players, so far hasn't worked out as well there, barring yesterday.   Could be with all the off season changes they are only now starting to jell.

[Captain_Quint]

It would be nice to get Morse back for 4th qtr of the season and playoffs. A line of Dawkins-Winters-Morse-Feliciano-Williams seems to be our strongest, with Winters being interchangeable with Boetteger. 

[RyanC883]

10 hours ago, Motorin' said:

I've been thinking, does the Bills O-Line seem better with Feliciano back, even with Morse out? 

 

I think so.  Imagine if we had both. !

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Seattle was blitzing on almost every play

I think considering we knew the blitz was coming on every down the offensive line as a whole probably underperformed a bit in the second half...tight ends sure missed a lot of blocks too though and im sure its not easy to be asked to pass block on 90% of downs 🤣

[JaCrispy]

I agree we have pretty good depth...however I would still like to draft another OL in one the first 3 rounds next draft...

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I agree we have pretty good depth...however I would still like to draft another OL in one the first 3 rounds next draft...

Probably not a bad idea, ya really can’t have to many good O line guys. 

[Mr. WEO]

That was the 32nd ranked D they were up against Sunday....other weeks, Josh has taken his lumps.

[JerseyBills]

Felicianos presence has made a huge difference. 

Once Morse is back , watch out!!

[Motor26]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

7 sacks are not necessarily on the OL.  It's on the QB to recognize and call protections - Allen admitted that he needed to do so on a couple of those sacks. 

 

Seattle was running a lot of safety blitzes in the 2nd half.  Sometimes it's on the RB or TE to pick up the blitz.  Knox missed his block Big Time on one Adams sack.  I was disappointed in him 😥 but maybe it's rust he'll shake off. 

 

Knox is just a disappointment in general. He’s regressed from last year and can’t catch the football still. Hopefully he turns into something but who knows.