What does Darnold's performance say about Jordan Palmer?

[cage]

It's interesting that both Allen and Darnold work out together all off-season and both have been religiously working with Jordan Palmer.  It appears to have had a positive affect on Josh as he's steadily improved and we saw that in his passing this Sunday as he starts his 3rd year.  Here is the write-up on Darnold's performance on The Athletic after reviewing the tape

 

Sorry, paid site link, but I'll quote a bit of it:

https://theathletic.com/2064818/2020/09/14/after-further-review-23-next-day-thoughts-after-the-jets-week-1-beatdown/

 

"We talked a lot about Darnold after the game. It felt warranted after the quarterback’s poor performance. After watching the film on Monday, I probably wasn’t harsh enough on the 23-year-old.

 

The biggest concern on rewatch, though, was Darnold’s footwork. Adam Gase and Dowell Loggains have done everything they can to hammer the need for Darnold to align his footwork with his body. He has a tendency to to align himself one way, see something somewhere else, then move his torso without resetting his feet to try to hit his target. Seldom, if ever, does this lead to an accurate pass. The Jets might get away with it — but it’s not smart.

 

There were several times where Darnold, despite this being a point of emphasis last season and over the offseason, went back to his old ways."

 

[snafu]

I don’t recall one pass that Darnold threw in the first half where his feet were set.

That was mostly due to the fact that there was no pocket to throw from.  He doesn’t appear to have the ability to move away from trouble before throwing (or at least he doesn’t seem to think to do that). There were a lot of throws he made while taking a slight hop and it most definitely affected his accuracy. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

religiously working with Jordan Palmer?

[BarkLessWagMore]

Nothing. You can't fix what's lacking between the ears.

 

Also, I wouldn't give up on Darnold just yet. He has had zero stability and consistently awful coaching. He may be OK with the right situation.

[Just Joshin']

I think it says more about Darnold's ability and desire to change.  Josh is driven, Darnold does not appear to be driven to be the best.

[aristocrat]

He doesn’t have weapons and the o line was letting guys in the backfield.  Guy isn’t a miracle worker 

[cage]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

religiously working with Jordan Palmer?

 

Perhaps they're not genuflecting, but they both worked with him exclusively leading up to the draft and every off-season since.  How is... dedicated to working with Jordan Palmer to improve their craft

Edited September 15, 2020 by cage

[CBennett]

That Darnold doesnt have a lot to work with and is pretty much hamstrung talent wise on the offensive side of things...the only thing the Jets have going for them is a pretty stout defensive frontline Vs the run.

[Mr. K]

Darnold looks like the same guy from USC except he is playing with all professional athletes. What does it say about Jordan Palmer? Can't turn a ho into a house wife. That being said any time somebody on the other team loses and looks bad doing it I try to think of it as a positive since winning is the best outcome of any game. Maybe Jordan Palmer can offer some tips in the run game though...

[WhoTom]

It says nothing about Palmer; teachers aren't miracle workers.

 

Darnold's performance may say something about Darnold himself or about his supporting cast. He doesn't have much to work with, and the Bills D gave him a hard time Sunday, so I wouldn't lay it all on his shoulders just yet.

 

 

 

 

[clayboy54]

It simply says that no two players (or people) are the same and everyone is not equally capable of attaining the same levels of achievement.

 

This is my issue with the social movement today. If you put any two people in the same place with, or without the same tools, both of them will seldom end up with the same level of success.

 

Such it is in this case.

[spartacus]

the wind really impacted some of his passes early- which kept NY in bad field position

 

teh announcers totally ignored the wind impact

[MAJBobby]

37 minutes ago, cage said:

It's interesting that both Allen and Darnold work out together all off-season and both have been religiously working with Jordan Palmer.  It appears to have had a positive affect on Josh as he's steadily improved and we saw that in his passing this Sunday as he starts his 3rd year.  Here is the write-up on Darnold's performance on The Athletic after reviewing the tape

 

Sorry, paid site link, but I'll quote a bit of it:

https://theathletic.com/2064818/2020/09/14/after-further-review-23-next-day-thoughts-after-the-jets-week-1-beatdown/

 

"We talked a lot about Darnold after the game. It felt warranted after the quarterback’s poor performance. After watching the film on Monday, I probably wasn’t harsh enough on the 23-year-old.

 

The biggest concern on rewatch, though, was Darnold’s footwork. Adam Gase and Dowell Loggains have done everything they can to hammer the need for Darnold to align his footwork with his body. He has a tendency to to align himself one way, see something somewhere else, then move his torso without resetting his feet to try to hit his target. Seldom, if ever, does this lead to an accurate pass. The Jets might get away with it — but it’s not smart.

 

There were several times where Darnold, despite this being a point of emphasis last season and over the offseason, went back to his old ways."

 

Says Darnold isnt taking the mechanic Training like Josh is....  

 

Guess Josh is much more coachable.

[Dkollidas]

I think Allen has had so many less reps than guys like Darnold and Mayfield, and at such a lower level (JUCO & Wyoming Versus Elite 11 camps & USC for Darnold), that Allen might just be more moldable. 
 

I think this is what everyone missed that noted Allen’s inaccuracy. He was way behind on reps. He could be molded to whatever you can turn him into. Whereas most of these guys come into the league (even as young as Darnold was) a much more finished product just due to the malignity of muscle memory they have imprinted on all of these motions. 

[NI Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

I think it says more about Darnold's ability and desire to change.  Josh is driven, Darnold does not appear to be driven to be the best.

 

I would agree with that.  We all noted Josh's lack of experience (compared with Darnold/Mayfield etc.) coming out of the draft but could it actually become an advantage over time rather than a disadvantage in that he entered the NFL in no doubt that he needed to devote himself to improving as much as he can on all facets of his game.  Whereas some of the other guys potentially thought their skill levels were at a level that they didn't fully embrace that improvement mindset like Josh has.

 

just a theory.

[atlbillsfan1975]

The Jets have Gase as the HC and Darnold is already on his third OC. Guy is getting different messages and playbooks every year. 
The Jets have given other teams the blueprint on how to give your new QB as little chance for success. 

[K-9]

Regarding his footwork, it’s a poise issue combined with a “my arm strength alone can get it done because it always has previously” mindset. I think the lack of poise in the pocket comes from from all the ghosts he has seen his first two years and he rushes things as a result. And he just hasn’t learned that his arm alone won’t bail him out like it did at every previous level he’s competed at. 

7 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I think Allen has had so many less reps than guys like Darnold and Mayfield, and at such a lower level (JUCO & Wyoming Versus Elite 11 camps & USC for Darnold), that Allen might just be more moldable. 
 

I think this is what everyone missed that noted Allen’s inaccuracy. He was way behind on reps. He could be molded to whatever you can turn him into. Whereas most of these guys come into the league (even as young as Darnold was) a much more finished product just due to the malignity of muscle memory they have imprinted on all of these motions. 

Malignity of muscle memory. That’s a first in these parts. Outstanding!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, cage said:

It's interesting that both Allen and Darnold work out together all off-season and both have been religiously working with Jordan Palmer.  It appears to have had a positive affect on Josh as he's steadily improved and we saw that in his passing this Sunday as he starts his 3rd year.  Here is the write-up on Darnold's performance on The Athletic after reviewing the tape

 

Sorry, paid site link, but I'll quote a bit of it:

https://theathletic.com/2064818/2020/09/14/after-further-review-23-next-day-thoughts-after-the-jets-week-1-beatdown/

 

"We talked a lot about Darnold after the game. It felt warranted after the quarterback’s poor performance. After watching the film on Monday, I probably wasn’t harsh enough on the 23-year-old.

 

The biggest concern on rewatch, though, was Darnold’s footwork. Adam Gase and Dowell Loggains have done everything they can to hammer the need for Darnold to align his footwork with his body. He has a tendency to to align himself one way, see something somewhere else, then move his torso without resetting his feet to try to hit his target. Seldom, if ever, does this lead to an accurate pass. The Jets might get away with it — but it’s not smart.

 

There were several times where Darnold, despite this being a point of emphasis last season and over the offseason, went back to his old ways."

 

 

One of the things said to be a big strength of Darnold coming out of college was being able to throw accurately on the move - and he was moving a lot on Sunday.

 

It seemed to me he made a number of throws that were "accurate enough" and a better WR would have held on to.

 

 

[WhoTom]

16 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

This is my issue with the social movement today. If you put any two people in the same place with, or without the same tools, both of them will seldom end up with the same level of success.

 

The social movement is about making sure they have the same tools.

[clayboy54]

Just now, WhoTom said:

 

The social movement is about making sure they have the same tools.

and as we'll see, seldom will any two people end up with the same level of success.

[Doc]

Not as much as it says about Darnold.

[saundena]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Malignity of muscle memory. That’s a first in these parts. Outstanding!

 

Agreed.  Outstanding and creative terminology!

[C.Biscuit97]

It says the Jets are completely garbage and ruined any chance of Darnold being good.  I hope he goes to a real franchise because I still think he has a lot of potential.  The Jets looked like the worst team in the nfl. Such a dumb, poorly run team. 

[ProcessYaDigg]

Darnold is the type of player that's gonna take advice from one person, himself.  He has no desire to grow or learn.  Maybe it has to do with the organization he's in.  But for now, I compare him to Cutler.  Sooooo much potential, just no desire.

[Cson76]

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face

[ProcessAccepted]

Let's not get carried away here. He's in a terrible organization that may just ruin the guys career. As much as I like Josh I'm not certain that he could overcome the Jets

[BigPappy]

Personally, i don't think it says anything about Palmer. He has tutored Mahomes, Watson, Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, Joe Burrow, Kyle Allen and others. Sam Darnold was claimed by the so called experts to be a better talent than Josh Allen, as well as Mahomes; and Jordan didn't ruin Mahomes. I think it comes down to the raw talent that the player has and the big muscle between their ears that matters. 

 

In my opinion, i think the struggles that Darnold has been experiencing comes down to two factors.

 1. The so called experts over evaluated his talent..... and

 2. The dumpster fire AKA the NY Jets has not helped him grow as a player because their GM and coaching staff are an abomination to NFL coaching.

 

Just my take on things any way. 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 15, 2020 by BigPappy

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Darnold look shaky/antsy... Despite mechanics coaching that’s when stuff breaks down 
 

Also:

1) who knows if Gase is working as closely with Palmer as the bills appeared to Be. Maybe they have conflicting opinions 
2) Allen’s muscle memory was far less defined and intrinsic as he way more raw

3) its one game and Darnold is on a crappy team

4) maybe our guy is just more coachable 

also Palmer couldn’t coach himself into a decent qb. So there are certainly limits to everything.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[BigPappy]

2 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

and as we'll see, seldom will any two people end up with the same level of success.

 and that's fine. provided that all are on an equal "playing field" That's the point of the social justice movement. Give everyone the same rules, same treatment, same access to the same tools and let them determine the outcome of their own life. Things may "appear" to be set up that way now, but they are not ACTUALLY that way.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

This is going to hurt a little but oh well. I think if you put Darnold on the Bills and Allen on the Jets that the Bills still win this game. Darnold has zero weapons on that Jets offense, every time he throws its into tight windows. Not that I want to see Brees get injured because he is one of my favorite QB's but it would be interesting to see what Darnold could do with a offense like that. Its so hard to evaluate Darnold with him being on the Jets. 

[NewEra]

The jets are awful.  The coach is awful.  Darnold has no chance right now.  

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

3 hours ago, aristocrat said:

He doesn’t have weapons and the o line was letting guys in the backfield.  Guy isn’t a miracle worker 

You couldn't be more correct.  The o-line was terrible.  Maybe just as poor as last season, despite all of the new additions.  His receivers were bad as well.  Between the drops and short arming attempts in traffic, Darnold was always behind the chains.  Darnold's situation is more of a function of the lack of surrounding player talent, poor coaching, poor front office, and an owner that apparently doesn't care.  We shouldn't expect a young QB to overcome all of that, regardless of how much help Palmer provides.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Darnold was closer to his ceiling when he was drafted then Josh was.

[Golden*Wheels]

I can't get into mechanics etc, but how does Darnold scramble out of bounds and take a sack on Sunday and not get rid of the ball? How do you take a delay of game coming out of a TV timeout? Why bother doing 31 flavors when you can't get vanilla right?

 

I don't pretend to be able to see anything but AWFUL footwork, or recognize anything but the worst "bad habits"....but I know taking a sack you don't need to, or taking the dumbest of dumb penalties, isn't something you want or expect a 3rd year guy to be doing. Maybe he's just....completely lost and ruined at this point?

Edited September 15, 2020 by Golden*Wheels

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

The good news for Darnold and the Jets is that he doesn't have to play our defense every week. Bet his stats and overall performance improves over the next few games. 

[MJS]

Darnold is in a bad situation. Reverse teams and I KNOW Josh would be struggling in New Jersey, and I'm fairly confident Darnold would be progressing nicely in Buffalo.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, BarkLessWagMore said:

Also, I wouldn't give up on Darnold just yet. He has had zero stability and consistently awful coaching. He may be OK with the right situation.

 

3 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I think it says more about Darnold's ability and desire to change.  Josh is driven, Darnold does not appear to be driven to be the best.

 

I second both of these emotions.

 

Josh Allen has proven himself to be very coachable, determined and dedicated to immediate improvements.  He's also on a better team with better coaching.

 

If Darnold is going to be successful - which I think he can and will be - the Jets need to find the right GM and HC like Buffalo has.  But it's clear that he's got to work harder.  He played like a rookie on Sunday.  Significant regression.

[Da webster guy]

3 hours ago, snafu said:

I don’t recall one pass that Darnold threw in the first half where his feet were set.

That was mostly due to the fact that there was no pocket to throw from.  He doesn’t appear to have the ability to move away from trouble before throwing (or at least he doesn’t seem to think to do that). There were a lot of throws he made while taking a slight hop and it most definitely affected his accuracy. 

 

 

Yeah he was rattled, fidgety.  Seemed like a preseason game for the Jets and a regular season game for us.  Plus nobody noticed Kyle Williams in his Zimmer jersey out there making plays, which was cool because he's supposed to be retired.

 

After rewatching, in Sam's defense, his WR's had a TON of drops, especially in the 1st half. 

 

I would say the biggest impact of no preseason or scrimmages on week 1 was the receivers.  They struggled in every game from the Chiefs on Thursday all the way through to last nights games.  Not just miscoms between them and the QB's but flat out drops.  My conclusion is game catches and practice catches are a whole different animal, way more than I would have expected.   In a lot of the cases it's the head turn BEFORE the ball gets there because for the first time since last year they're actually going to get popped by a guy that isn't on their team.

[clayboy54]

40 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

 and that's fine. provided that all are on an equal "playing field" That's the point of the social justice movement. Give everyone the same rules, same treatment, same access to the same tools and let them determine the outcome of their own life. Things may "appear" to be set up that way now, but they are not ACTUALLY that way.

I could not agree more! I am using this case with Sam vs Josh to show that people do not respond to circumstances the same way and certainly do not end up in the same place.

[Scott7975]

I’m still not a Tannehill fan but look at the difference in him since he left Gase. I think Darnold can be a good QB in the right situation but it probably needs to happen sooner than later.