TroutDog Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It won’t be.... if Allen struggles that badly or if Barkley is forced into action for a long period of time people will be crushing McBeane for having him as their back up. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I would keep McDermott for sure and because they are tied at the hip that means keeping Beane too. I like Beane but I do think some around here have a tendency to slightly over rate the job he has done so far. He is in credit, don't get me wrong, but for me to go all in on Beane one of his picks - Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Singletary, Knox, Ford.... needs to become an elite player. The one guy that this regime has picked who has become an elite player so far is Tre White and that was before Beane. I might argue the next most proven successful pick of the regime is Milano (for performance relative to value given up) and he was also the McDermott draft. If one of Allen, Edmunds or Oliver really takes off (it is likely those 3 to be honest) then I will go all in on Beane being a genius. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: But I thought Barkley was the Cat’s Meow. Wasn’t too long ago many people on here were calling on him to start. Like the infamous @GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 No question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Long and short its deep playoff run or bust this year. Anything less and either Allen, McD, or Beane are losing their job. Lol no. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Yes, from a strategic, cultural and team-building perspective they've done so much right. Even if Allen doesn't work out and can't be good enough McBeane's research and thought process into the decision to draft him has been well documented and sound. The QB hit rate, even for those who are top 15 selections is under 50%. Its the hardest position to peg. That's just a reality. I would also argue that under that reality, what we've seen from Allen already has justified the draft pick and their reasoning to take a chance on him. I'll add another anecdotal proof point. When Allen was selected, I would guess-timate that under 50% of this board were excited about the pick, that has been discussed in several previous threads. I would further guess that near 100% agree with the pick now, two years later. They've won over a pretty tough audience They stay. Edited March 21, 2020 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 yes. they have been putting together a good team and drafting well which is great for long term success. but they will need to find that next qb quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveorhatembillsfan4life Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) What is the criteria for Allen not working out? In my opinion Allen has to completely fall apart which is highly unlikely considering he has made incredible progress in two years. I think we all really need to define what we want in a franchise Qb because depending on your expectations we may or not have one. If your looking for a HALL of Famer, then only time will tell what Allen becomes. Most teams in the league don’t have elite qbs. For every Brees, Tom Brady Russell Wilson their is a dozen others like Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan , Carson Wentz. Guys who are in a second tier class that with proper team building you can win with. Even the titans are going all in on Tannehill. The guy barely made a pass in the postseason. The lions won’t ever cut bait with Stafford because he is a guy you can win with and qbs are hard to find. Where the lions failed was never really building a complete team around him. I honestly think they should draft Tua this year (while they have a shot) but they won’t because their is so much pressure in this league to win now. The redskins should even consider it but they probably won’t. My second point is that this team our team is built to win right now. And barring again another monumental collapse we won’t be drafting anywhere near a position to draft another Qb let alone find one in Free Agency. Beane for even the moves that haven’t worked out deserves a lot of credit for trying to build a complete team. He has put together a defense now going into year 4 I think that has remained pretty well intact. And while the offense had been ignored for the first few years he Has now put together some pretty nice studs at all the positions filled with veteran and youth. I would say he has now given Allen the tools to work with, much more so than other young qbs. So yes, a lot will depend on Allen. I think there is definitely a split with this board to what he will become I’m not at all worried. I think Allen is on a path far greater than some think. Again just my opinion. If the apocalypse should occur (unlikely) and we miserably fail, Then we need to know what went wrong and can it be fixed better. Edited March 21, 2020 by loveorhatembillsfan4life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhg Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, and he will work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Without a doubt! Yes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, provided they were to move on in a timely manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 9 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: Josh Allen isn't the acid test, McD's game management is. Let's hope he doesn't boot another first-round playoff game against an inferior opponent. McDermott’s mentor Andy Reid was criticized worse for game management. He drafted a top notch. Look what happened. Dont be fooled. Next year is all about Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Absolutely 100%!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Considering how many first round QB's flunk out, you'd e crazy not to. Drafting a franchise QB is more luck than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyny13 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eanyills Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Motor26 said: ‘But, But, But, he has no 300 yard passing games?!?! I love when people take a legitimate criticism and twist it out of context. Never change, TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff1954 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Absolutely. Yes. Give them the chance to pick another quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, Allen will be at the very least a good starter in this league. Whether or not he becomes elite is entirely up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 This FO/HC are good, QB’s are hard for anyone to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 This will come down to winning, not Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 10 hours ago, downunderbill said: When Allen was drafted and during that first season, particularly the first few games, I recall a lot anger and fire everybody posts tying the HC and GMs job to Allen becoming the guy. First off I'm firmly in the Allen corner and believe he is the guy, it's not about if he will be or not. hypothetically, Just say he does severely regress this year and it becomes obvious he isn't the guy, would you be willing to let the current hierarchy have another crack at the QB pick. Personally, I definitely would, I love these guys and how they operate, feel they should be here for a long time, Allen working out or not. Whay say you? Yes, these are the only guys that have a chance of acquiring McCaffrey so if they were to leave I'd be devestated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Sure, if they recognise the mistake like they made with Lotulelei and Kelvin Benjaman and make the necessary moves to fix it. Josh Allen is an outstanding athlete. He's just not a great QB. I'd still give him another season and see if he's any better. If he doesn't start throwing any better by then, I'd trade him for whatever I could get. I'd definitely try to keep this coaching staff together. Still not sure about Beane -- Still waiting for one of his 1st rounders to start playing like one. Edited March 21, 2020 by GreggTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, I would keep them. Swinging and missing on a QB happens to everyone, sooner or later, so if they missed on Allen, I don't think it should be fatal. Twice is a different story. Plus, if Allen misses, it won't be by much. He's pretty good right now, when you roll in his running threat. He's a top 20 quarterback. He's as productive as a guy like Fitzpatrick. That is, he's an average to slightly below average starter. He isn't Ryan Leaf or JP Losman or EJ Manuel. So if Allen never grows beyond where he is right now, I'm not coming down hard on McBeane. But if Allen isn't any better in his third season than he was in his second, McBeane had better be looking hard for an alternative. You have to remember, though, that QB development takes time. Tannehill is a good example. He had his moments in Miami, but generally he just bumbled along as a marginal starter. We didn't always see the growth. Then 2019 happens, and everyone has to reconsider him. If he puts up another season like 2019, this time as the full-time starter, he will have shown once again that it takes time to grow into a real player in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Bob in STL said: Yes. Beane and McD have been the 2nd most competent after Polian/Levy. You DO NoT get rid of them, they could actually win a SB. Allen was the best choice they had so no fault if he is not the man (I think he will be be). This team is thriving under Beane/McD. Keep it going! Isn't the premise of the question that, if Allen doesn't work out, there would be no foreseeable scenario of "actually winning a SB"? If Allen is struggling (and the Bills likely not winning) in the next few seasons, how would the team be thriving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla03 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Good news with Allen is...if he doesn't pan out we can basically dump him while he's on his rookie contract and move up to draft another QB We didn't give up the future drafting him and thats the best part. some teams are tied to their 1st round QB's bc they traded the farm for them but Beane was smart in that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 ....so the jobs of the GM/HC should be in jeopardy if ONE player does not work out?............would be one helluva long unemployment line EVERY year........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, eanyills said: I love when people take a legitimate criticism and twist it out of context. Never change, TBD. What was the legitimate criticism? Please change, eanyills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I don't like dealing in hypotheticals that are unlikely to play out. I'll leave that to idiots like our President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanSD Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes. Beane is our best GM since the super bowl years, and McDermott is our best coach since -- arguably -- forever. No disrespect to Marv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, eanyills said: I love when people take a legitimate criticism and twist it out of context. Never change, TBD. 300 yard passing games don't necessarily matter. I wouldn't use that as any type of benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, they deserve a crack at another QB if Allen doesn't work out. Playoffs 2 out of 3 years should say it all at this phase IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, 100% I would. They’ve done so much good for this team. They don’t deserve to be fired for a swing and a miss on 1 player. And you can totally see why they took a chance on Allen. Every tool is there, he has a high ceiling, his work ethic is top notch, he’s very driven to improve, he’s smart, ultra competitive and plays the game very tough. If Allen doesn’t work out, I would feel pretty confident that they would learn from it and apply it to the next QB they scout/draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, eanyills said: I love when people take a legitimate criticism and twist it out of context. Never change, TBD. Since when is that a legitimate criticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 10 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Wouldn’t surprise me, but if Allen goes down and/or struggles and Barkley is forced into action and the team continues to suck offensively as they go .500 or worse they’ll be a lot of fans scratching their heads..... Get the Red rifle hear as BU? I honestly feel like we need to address BU QB sooner rather than later. We all know Josh's playing style can lead to injury for a few games. I guess I just don't have faith in Barkley at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Changing regimes every two years worked so well for us. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 how is your mind there? seriously ? if your playing your back up qb over multiple games you better have a killer running game and a great defense because he's not going to do much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 100% yes and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to understand how intelligent these guys are and how committed they are to winning. I think I figured Beane out and why he didn't get Hooper or more big splashes beyond Diggs and puts more money on the D-line. It's just more consistent hedging towards defense until they can figure out the offensive side. They figure if they get 1 side REALLY right they will never have a bad team and make the playoffs more often than not. By not getting big ticket FAs they can hedge with spreading out depth to again get a consistent win cycle without a franchise QB. If it happens they have to figure out how to play the same game they are playing now, which won't work. It's similar to the Steelers until Ben got a huge contract. This has no bearing on Allen being good or not, it's a strategy to produce a consistent winner, a winner they may not win a SB, but it will consistently win. I think our history of poor play will now be taken over by a team too good to suck, but never good enough to win the SB with their current paradigm, although anything could happen and a QB could catch fire during the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. It will be destroyed if they have to pay Josh (or anyone else) $30 million+ money unless he's a thorough-bred. It's better for a Teddy Bridgewater/younger Dalton/or middle of the road starter who will never be a stud, but good enough to spread out the wealth and have a consistent winner and potentially a SB if they slip in like the Titans almost did. Vrabel built his team roughly the same way, but now with the Tannehill situation I'd like to see what his team looks like in 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Wouldn’t surprise me, but if Allen goes down and/or struggles and Barkley is forced into action and the team continues to suck offensively as they go .500 or worse they’ll be a lot of fans scratching their heads..... Not the dreaded head scratching!!! Of course fans will scratching their heads if the Bills finish .500 or worse. I'll be scratching my head as well (no dandruff!) But only a stupid fan would translate head scratching into something that justifies firing the front office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Idle hands... or crack pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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