Bills trade for Diggs - jw no discussions on a restructure

[badassgixxer05]

He has John Brown and Cole Beasley to work opposite of here. Thats 3 pretty good weapons to spread the ball around to. If Knox takes another step along with Singletary, we could have a pretty sick passing attack this year.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

No we couldn’t have. If that were true. It would’ve happened.

 

That works out to 1157 yards over 16 games. 

 

 

see above

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am still a Knox fan. I think he is a candidate for a break out year. 

 

Time to light the Sweeney!  He's the X Factor...

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Advanced rushing and receiving with drop % for Diggs here:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DiggSt00.htm

 

Player advanced receiving (with drop %) here:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving_advanced.htm

 

 

Can't believe I didnt think to look in the advanced section, Thanks! I feel better about drops with the posted above and I feel better about the fumbles considering 4/6 career fumbles happened last year.  All worries about this removed again.

[billsfan89]

29 minutes ago, arcane said:

If one more person says we could have had Hopkins for less, SDS should burn this place to the ground. 

 

Just because Houston has a dumbass GM that does stupid trades doesn't mean that every other GM Will just give away talent. 

[JerseyBills]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. He is very Antonio Brown like. 

 

If he wants a new deal then he is going to have to go the right way about it because after 2020 he has 3 years of contract and very little guaranteed money so he has minimal leverage. If he doesn't show up he doesn't get paid. If he produces on the field in 2020 can I see the Bills maybe reworking that contract to give him a bit extra guaranteed money as a reward? Maybe. But would have to be on their terms.  

Idk. Even if we have to give him a new deal , I still like the trade. We just got a certified top 10 we talent, in his prime. His upside still hasn't been reached. We have the luxury to do this because of how great Beane has done building this roster..

 

He had under 100 targets last year , still over 1k yards . 6 TD  Had over 100 catches the prior year, was a Monster in the post season , surpassing 1k yards and 9 TD.

With Keenum and Cousins throwing to him! 

He was their best player on O . Thielen was nowhere near as good without Diggs on field.  Diggs always got the opposing teams # 1 , which just made John Browns life soooo much easier. 

 

Phenomenal move by a team that knows it's close and added one of the best weapons in the game

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

He won't and he will demonstrate beyond any doubt he is a true #1 in his own right. 

As I mentioned before, I’m betting Thielen struggles without Diggs, like JuJu did without psycho opposite him. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Idk. Even if we have to give him a new deal , I still like the trade. We just got a certified top 10 we talent, in his prime. His upside still hasn't been reached. We have the luxury to do this because of how great Beane has done building this roster..

 

He had under 100 targets last year , still over 1k yards . 6 TD  Had over 100 catches the prior year, was a Monster in the post season , surpassing 1k yards and 9 TD.

With Keenum and Cousins throwing to him! 

He was their best player on O . Thielen was nowhere near as good without Diggs on field.  Diggs always got the opposing teams # 1 , which just made John Browns life soooo much easier. 

 

Phenomenal move by a team that knows it's close and added one of the best weapons in the game

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I just make the point he has very little leverage to demand a new contract. He will need to prove it on the field and go the right way about it. 

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

As I mentioned before, I’m betting Thielen struggles without Diggs, like JuJu did without psycho opposite him. 

 

I think so too. He feasts on holes that Diggs plays a large part in creating. Thielen is still a really good player and he will still have around 1,000 yards if he stays healthy but I do think his production will drop. 

[bilzfancy]

I have complete faith in the Bills FO, after all the good they've done in the short time here, how can you not?

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

see above

How many targets did he have in those games?

[BuffaloBill963]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He won't and he will demonstrate beyond any doubt he is a true #1 in his own right. 

Plus he has John brown opposite who is a damn good wr 

[JerseyBills]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Just because Houston has a dumbass GM that does stupid trades doesn't mean that every other GM Will just give away talent. 

I don't see a massive difference. Arz is sending the 40th pick  and a guy  before last season was considered a top 3-5 back. 

Also a 2021 4th. 

 

We paid more but Diggs contract is beautiful and Hopkins is better but not by much. I'd put Diggs in the top 5 WR in the game

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I just make the point he has very little leverage to demand a new contract. He will need to prove it on the field and go the right way about it. 

 

I think so too. He feasts on holes that Diggs plays a large part in creating. Thielen is still a really good player and he will still have around 1,000 yards if he stays healthy but I do think his production will drop. 

I agree.

And Diggs demanded the opposing #1 CB. Thielen will take a hit I believe.  

[billsfan89]

Just now, JerseyBills said:

I don't see a massive difference. Arz is sending the 40th pick  and a guy  before last season was considered a top 3-5 back. 

Also a 2021 4th. 

 

We paid more but Diggs contract is beautiful and Hopkins is better but not by much. I'd put Diggs in the top 5 WR in the game

 

David Johnson hasn't been considering a top 3-5 back since 2016. I don't think he offers much value to that trade, esp on a big contract. 

[stevewin]

5 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

 

Admittedly, it *seems* like a lot to give up, but the Bills' 1st, 5th, 6th and 2021 4th (discounted by a round for Vikes waiting a year for it) would *maybe* have been enough to get them pick 19 in this year's draft.  The 5th, 6th and next year's 4th don't have a lot of trade value.

I'm glad you noted the de-value for a future pick with the 4th - some people on here are valuing it as a 2020 4th.   Worth noting too that with the trade value of those picks - moving up a few spots would not have been enough to get one of the very top WRs in the draft regardless.  AND we still have all our picks after rd 1 this year.  The REASON Beane acquired the extra picks was to use them as capital to go after guys he targeted, not to use them to draft extra players this year.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him use more picks this year to move up and target specific players in this draft - as others have said, we have the luxury now of having some depth, and with a few FA moves the draft now is more about quality than quantity.  

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I don't see a massive difference. Arz is sending the 40th pick  and a guy  before last season was considered a top 3-5 back. 

Also a 2021 4th. 

 

We paid more but Diggs contract is beautiful and Hopkins is better but not by much. I'd put Diggs in the top 5 WR in the game

I agree.

And Diggs demanded the opposing #1 CB. Thielen will take a hit I believe.  

 

I love Diggs, but Hopkins is the best WR in the NFL, arguably. Diggs probably in the 10-15 range. Which is still # 1 caliber

 

DeAndre Hopkins

Michael Thomas

Julio Jones

Keenan Allen

Amari Cooper

Mike Evans

Tyreek Hill

TY Hilton

 

Id probably list as better.

 

But again, still a top 10-15 WR, which is a huge get for the Bills!

 

 

[ngbills]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I don't see a massive difference. Arz is sending the 40th pick  and a guy  before last season was considered a top 3-5 back. 

Also a 2021 4th. 

 

We paid more but Diggs contract is beautiful and Hopkins is better but not by much. I'd put Diggs in the top 5 WR in the game

I agree.

And Diggs demanded the opposing #1 CB. Thielen will take a hit I believe.  

What league are you watching? Confused with your Madden league? Johnson was never a top 3-5 back not sure even a top 20 back. And Diggs is a top 5? Hopkins only better by a bit? Hopkins is a future HOFer, multiple 1500 yd seasons, etc. 

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

I love Diggs, but Hopkins is the best WR in the NFL, arguably. Diggs probably in the 10-15 range. Which is still # 1 caliber

 

DeAndre Hopkins

Michael Thomas

Julio Jones

Keenan Allen

Amari Cooper

Mike Evans

Tyreek Hill

TY Hilton

 

Id probably list as better.

 

But again, still a top 10-15 WR, which is a huge get for the Bills!

 

 

My list is similar but I have Diggs ahead of Hilton and Amari. 
Top 3 I have the same. 
tyreek hill 

mike Evans 

diggs 

keenan Allen 

golloday (based on my expectations) 

then Hilton and OBJ/Landry (I’m torn who is actually better) rounding out the top 10. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Anyone have a rough idea how much cap we have left?

 

I was just looking at that.  Diggs is on the books in Spotrac already taking them to 60 million.

After the others get put on (of course the contracts could be front loaded or back loaded) it

should be somewhere around 40 million left.

 

Using Beane's numbers from the past he will keep at least 15 million to go into the season.

If he extends Tre this year it should only put an extra 5 or so on this years books.

 

He probably has about 20 to work with for the rest of the offseason.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  Houston might not have wanted to deal Hopkins to us as a potential playoff opponent in the conference.

People keep saying this, but that's a tie breaker when two offers are very close.  You don't turn down a huge haul like what Minnesota received in favor of the scraps the Texans received just to spite a team that isn't even in your own division.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

People keep saying this, but that's a tie breaker when two offers are very close.  You don't turn down a huge haul like what Minnesota received in favor of the scraps the Texans received just to spite a team that isn't even in your own division.

  Which is all speculation without a press conference from Brandon Beane or Bill O'B to set the record straight.  I doubt that Bill O'B is going before the Houston media to say he turned down far better compensation from an AFC team because of competitive fears.

[JerseyBills]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

What league are you watching? Confused with your Madden league? Johnson was never a top 3-5 back not sure even a top 20 back. And Diggs is a top 5? Hopkins only better by a bit? Hopkins is a future HOFer, multiple 1500 yd seasons, etc. 

You're right. I was way off about Johnson. Hopkins is def the better WR but Diggs isn't far behind at all. 

Feel he will only get better too

 

 

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

People keep saying this, but that's a tie breaker when two offers are very close.  You don't turn down a huge haul like what Minnesota received in favor of the scraps the Texans received just to spite a team that isn't even in your own division.

Of course only my opinion but it has the looks Houston didn’t explore other options. Even taking the entire AFC out of the equation I have to believe an NFC team would of given up much more than Arizona did. Philly, Washington (who was rumored as our competition on diggs) , Chicago, Green Bay, even Seattle or San Fran, I could see any of those teams giving up a 1st rounder plus more to get Hopkins 

[1997WS6]

1 hour ago, Hardhatharry said:

I wouldn't put hopes up for a WR being awesome in rounds 2-3. The deepest potential at WR but lots will not work out just the way it is. 

Maybe, buy maybe not.  

 

Michael Thomas - Drafter Round 2

Antonio Brown - Drafter Round 6

Stefon Diggs - Drafter Round 5

Davante Adams - Drafter Round 2

Chris Godwin - Drafter Round 3

[TakeYouToTasker]

A few thoughts:

 

Diggs game, including his size, willingness to come across the middle, courage, hands, and speed remind me very much of Andre Reed.

 

The price tag was very low for his talent level, years of team control, and contract.

 

As good as Brown was last year, this will make him even better.  He’ll be in single coverage all year, and won’t see much help from single high safeties over the top.  Could see a line of 75/1100/8.

 

Even more so than Brown this will help Beasley, who belongs in the slot but was forced out wide far more often that you’d hope to see for personel reasons.  He’ll be an absolute stud underneath this year.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Of course only my opinion but it has the looks Houston didn’t explore other options. Even taking the entire AFC out of the equation I have to believe an NFC team would of given up much more than Arizona did. Philly, Washington (who was rumored as our competition on diggs) , Chicago, Green Bay, even Seattle or San Fran, I could see any of those teams giving up a 1st rounder plus more to get Hopkins 

The only explanation is that BOB really loves him some David Johnson. 

[Rc2catch]

2 minutes ago, 1997WS6 said:

Maybe, buy maybe not.  

 

Michael Thomas - Drafter Round 2

Antonio Brown - Drafter Round 6

Stefon Diggs - Drafter Round 5

Davante Adams - Drafter Round 2

Chris Godwin - Drafter Round 3

Don’t forget my favorite Kenny Golloday 

[Billl]

19 minutes ago, ngbills said:

What league are you watching? Confused with your Madden league? Johnson was never a top 3-5 back not sure even a top 20 back. And Diggs is a top 5? Hopkins only better by a bit? Hopkins is a future HOFer, multiple 1500 yd seasons, etc. 

The hell he wasn't.  Dude had 3357 yards from scrimmage and 20 TDs in 2016.  That's one of the best seasons in history.

[Hardhatharry]

5 minutes ago, 1997WS6 said:

Maybe, buy maybe not.  

 

Michael Thomas - Drafter Round 2

Antonio Brown - Drafter Round 6

Stefon Diggs - Drafter Round 5

Davante Adams - Drafter Round 2

Chris Godwin - Drafter Round 3

The tis a very small list

[Bangarang]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

You're right. I was way off about Johnson. Hopkins is def the better WR but Diggs isn't far behind at all. 

Feel he will only get better too

 

 

Put the pipe down bro

[Doc]

Maybe they’re not confident in their ability to scout WRs?

[GETTOTHE50]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

Maybe they’re not confident in their ability to scout WRs?

 

Next to QBs, they are the hardest to predict. Even Belishitbag has a tough time with receivers.

[buffaloboyinATL]

Cost not withstanding, the biggest take away is how exciting it will be to have a receiver that catches everything he touches.  This off-season has a "win now" feel to it so far and I absolutely love that!

[freddyjj]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

The hell he wasn't.  Dude had 3357 yards from scrimmage and 20 TDs in 2016.  That's one of the best seasons in history.

fact check here... David Johnson was all-pro in 2016 and did have 20 TDs but only 2116 yds from scrimmage.  Still a great year

[Gambit]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

The hell he wasn't.  Dude had 3357 yards from scrimmage and 20 TDs in 2016.  That's one of the best seasons in history.

The guy clearly doesn't know wtf he is talking about. David Johnson was once a beast. Sadly injuries derailed a promising career.

Just now, freddyjj said:

fact check here... David Johnson was all-pro in 2016 and did have 20 TDs but only 2116 yds from scrimmage.  Still a great year

Yeah those yards seemed a little too crazy to be.

[Billl]

8 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

The tis a very small list

Tyreek was a fifth round pick.

 

This trade reminds me of the 2017 draft.  McDermott made a solid trade to pick up a third and next year's first from Kansas City and still managed to draft an all pro CB yet people complain because another team landed an even bigger prize.

 

Diggs is a really good player, and the Bills are a better team in 2020 because of the trade.  The Cardinals got an even better player for considerably lower compensation.  Both of these things can be true.  Bill O'Brien is having a manic episode.  One team was able to capitalize on that.  Doesn't mean every WR in the league is available at fire sale prices.

[GoBills808]

Hopkins>Diggs

 

Diggs>>Thielen

 

Diggs>>>John Brown

[Dopey]

16 minutes ago, Billl said:

The hell he wasn't.  Dude had 3357 yards from scrimmage and 20 TDs in 2016.  That's one of the best seasons in history.

Also in 2018 almost 1400 combined yards and 10 tds. Playing in AZ. I'd have taken that for us in 2018.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

No we couldn’t have. If that were true. It would’ve happened.

 

That works out to 1157 yards over 16 games. 

We couldn't pull it off because we didnt have a busted up RB to offer.  And we didnt have a busted up RB to offer after Beane foolishly let Gore retire.

[boater]

Now it's all up to Josh.  ...fix that deep ball!

[Chicken Boo]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

Maybe they’re not confident in their ability to scout WRs?

 

A bird in the hand...

[TwistofFate]

5 hours ago, Watkins101 said:

That is just flat out wrong though. No one, and I mean NO ONE would take those picks for 8. To go from 22 to 8 it would probably take about 22, next year's first and a third, and that still might not be enough. Moving from 12 to 7 to get Josh Allen costed an additional 12 and 2 seconds.

The Bills just sent the Vikings four picks, including a first-rounder, to acquire Diggs. Those picks are worth 21.9 points on Chase Stuart's draft value chart, which is something close to the eighth overall pick in a typical draft.

 

 

Im not arguing over who would take what offer, Im speaking on value, period.

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/

Edited March 17, 2020 by TwistofFate