Duke today, did the bad outweigh the good?

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, GregPersons said:

It wasn't great. He had some tough drops. He also made some tough catches.

 

He did more today than most of our other receivers have done all season. I'd keep him, Brown, and Beasley, and then try to bring in several possible new True WR1s from the draft and Free Agency, and let it play out in training camp.

 

TE needs just as much help. I'd dump Kroft and Lee Smith.

agreed  I'd love to see WR1 added and all three of those guys bumped down one notch and addd a wr5 who really is a wr  No more special teams guys,gadget players  TE keep Knox and draft a big physical TE who is a run mauler and can be a red zone target  Kroft is neither and Sweeney cant block  Lee Smith is just a blocker

[PolishPrince]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Also I saw a number of 2 WR sets with Brown & Duke.

Yep, I want duke on the field as much as the next guy... but not at the expense of beasley.

 

I guess I kind of get the in 2 man sets because he has a different skillset/size/blocking than brown and beas... But McKenzie over Beas in 3 man sets is inexcusable IMO

[Freak-O]

I think he was pretty good. He dropped some balls but those were partly because of defenders doing things well. A top receiver in the league might hold on to those but no one really thinks he's one of those. He's definitely good enough for the NFL and I like him as part of the Bills.

[tcampbell104]

if they spend good money on a big free agent wide receiver and draft one early he might not get much of a chance to compete for a spot

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, PolishPrince said:

Yep, I want duke on the field as much as the next guy... but not at the expense of beasley.

 

I guess I kind of get the in 2 man sets because he has a different skillset/size/blocking than brown and beas... But McKenzie over Beas in 3 man sets is inexcusable IMO

Absolutely.

 

[Figster]

Very happy with Dukes play.

 

Size matters...

[Charles Romes]

His big drop was the swing pass on 3rd and 25 in OT. He just needed to break a tackle to set up makable game winning 55 yarder inside.   

[Mister Defense]

2 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

I think he was pretty good. He dropped some balls but those were partly because of defenders doing things well. A top receiver in the league might hold on to those but no one really thinks he's one of those. He's definitely good enough for the NFL and I like him as part of the Bills.

 

I started this topic because I was thinking of these things.  I am questioning if the Bills feel they can rely on him to catch the ball when it is there, consistently.

 

Perhaps this was why we did not see Williams on the field this year very much?   Could be.

[Prickly Pete]

11 minutes ago, Dopey said:

But better.

 

Yes, I assumed that was obvious if it wouldn't be him on the roster.

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I'm stunned at how people are reacting to his performance. He was a key player today and made big plays. As others have said, that TD would've been SPECTACULAR and elevated his performance to legendary. Your expectations are ridiculous.

if he was a key player making our big plays, it’s no shock the outcome.

 

the guys a depth role player not a cornerstone 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

8 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

there’s the problem.       

yeah, it’s not a Duke problem. It’s a Bills receiver problem. 

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I called my shot before the game, that Duke would be the difference in the game for the Bills (a positive difference).  Unfortunately, I was right (on the negative side), in that Duke failed to make the play for the TD.  He did make some huge 1st down catches though.  Not bad for not having played with Josh for 7 weeks.  He'd be a great 3rd or 4th WR on the team.  We need a #1.  McKittrick gonna be fighting Foster for a roster spot next year.

I think you have to add a true reliable 1, and a good developmental player (By that I mean a vet or TOP pick, plus a mid rounder). That takes 4 spots. 
 

 Leaves Roberts and the gang fighting for 2 max

[HappyDays]

He had 3 very nice catches in tight coverage, one of which was called back on a holding call. No other receiver on our team can make those catches. So I stand by what I've said which is that he's more valuable than Foster on the active roster. However he also has proved over the past couple weeks that he does NOT catch everything. He is an upgrade by default but that doesn't mean he's the answer. I think next year he will be on our practice squad again if he's eligible.

Edited January 5, 2020 by HappyDays

[LABILLBACKER]

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I’d keep him next year.  He’s earned it.  
 

Brown

Beasley

Draft Pick or FA

Duke

Roberts

McKenzie vs Foster for the last spot

 

McKenzie way over Foster. He can backup Roberts on returns and you have the shovel pass sweep he runs. Foster is gone.

Shenault 

Brown

Beasley 

Duke

Roberts 

McKenzie 

[fansince88]

24 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

he played great not sure where you say the bad the endzone catch would of been a highlight reel catch the sideline catch would of been pretty impressive as well considering 

 

what irks me is seeing his game today and knowing for the last six weeks he has been on the practice squad and somehow Fosters play on ST outweighed Williams on the offense...points to imo more incompetence with this staff 

Actually he was on the roster. That said, 4 catches for 49 yards was second to Browns 4 catches and 50 yards. Had he had the catch that was negated by the penalty he would have been 5 catches for I believe 63 yards. Yeah, he needs to be on the roster to fight for a spot this summer.

Edit: Singletary had 6 catches for 76 yards.....Daboll!!!!!

Edited January 5, 2020 by fansince88

[ILBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Actually he was on the roster. That said, 4 catches for 49 yards was second to Browns 4 catches and 50 yards. Had he had the catch that was negated by the penalty he would have been 5 catches for I believe 63 yards. Yeah, he needs to be on the roster to fight for a spot this summer.

Edit: Singletary had 6 catches for 76 yards.....Daboll!!!!!

That catch on the Allen scramble to the right was incredible by Singletary......more touches for this guys please in OT and this message board may not be the mess it is atm

 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I wouldn’t consider those “drops.” I’d also like to see any other receiver on this team make those catches. 

 

Both plays the db did a great job to knock the ball out....

[offyourocker]

He has this weird habit of leaning into the tackler 3 yards before he gets to him

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

He had 3 very nice catches in tight coverage, one of which was called back on a holding call. No other receiver on our team can make those catches. So I stand by what I've said which is that he's more valuable than Foster on the active roster. However he also has proved over the past couple weeks that he does NOT catch everything. He is an upgrade by default but that doesn't mean he's the answer. I think next year he will be on our practice squad again if he's eligible.

Perfectly said.  He had a lot of holes in his game but he brings a facet that we missed all year

[CoudyBills]

44 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The endzone pass was a difficult one and I think he should have caught it. But who on our team catches that ball as it was thrown? 

As it was thrown?  You mean right on the money where it needed to be?  Josh wasn't great today but my god man.

[DuckyBoys]

22 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I started this topic because I was thinking of these things.  I am questioning if the Bills feel they can rely on him to catch the ball when it is there, consistently.

 

Perhaps this was why we did not see Williams on the field this year very much?   Could be.

even so worse than invisible Robert Foster?  Duke should have been playing  Hopefully next year he fighting just to be wr5  We need a upgrade and it includes modern nfl wrs not 1980's era smurfs

[CLTbills]

Could he have done more? sure. 

Did he produce more in this one opportunity than Foster did essentially all year? Absolutely.

[Livinginthepast]

21 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

As it was thrown?  You mean right on the money where it needed to be?  Josh wasn't great today but my god man.

it was difficult catch in a tight spot with a DB smacking into Duke's torso, factor in Josh's fastball speed and yeah "as it was thrown" is exactly what I meant.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

We already had a Duke thread.  Why not post in that one?

 

 

We already have trolls, but you keep returning.  What's the difference?  Serious question, are you the you the fan that told Cody Ford to kill himself on Twitter?  You strike me as the type of posted that would do so.  I would love to meet that pos

Edited January 5, 2020 by Dablitzkrieg

[MPT]

The play in the endzone was immediately after he got hurt and he was hit in midair and upside down. The other one was just a really good play by the defensive back to knock the ball out. He had at least 4 contested catches tonight that no other receiver on our team has made all year. He was our second best offensive player behind Singletary. 

 

His lack of speed and separation limits his upside as a WR but I'd like to see them try him as a tight end. He couldn't block any worse than Kroft and he has great hands in traffic.

[DuckyBoys]

he's better than anyone not named John Brown or Cole Beasley on the Bills right now  Too bad it took all year for the staff to figure this out

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

it was difficult catch in a tight spot with a DB smacking into Duke's torso, factor in Josh's fastball speed and yeah "as it was thrown" is exactly what I meant.

That’s a catch NFL WRs make with regularity. He dropped it. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Drops?

 

He had several?

 

I know that EZ pass was a great pass by Allen but a very difficult catch.

 

I wish Duke were in there all year. He clearly gave Allen another weapon he didn't have with Foster in there.

 

I don't really think he'll be on the team next year though.

[Bangarang]

He’s not a bad player if he’s your 4th option at WR. A guy like him shouldn’t be leading this team in targets in a playoff game pretty much ever.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Great to see Williams make some quality plays today, keeping drives alive.

 

BUT his drops may have been more significant.  A starting NFL receiver catches those balls and puts the Bills in a stronger position to win.

 

Drops have been the plague of our WRs corp, our guys get open but if you dont catch it, its all for naught. We really need to bring guys in WHO CAN CATCH.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

Overall Duke was much more productive then Foster.  He made several tough 3rd down catches.

 

The end zone throw by Allen was perfectly placed and the DB made a great play on the ball.  But with that being said Duke should have caught that pass.  A lot of NFL WR's make that catch.  But to be fair NO ONE on the Bills makes that catch.  Our receiving core simply doesn't make what would be called great catches.  They make solid, tough catches but almost never make the spectacular ones.  And in the NFL this is a problem because spectacular catches are being made by other receivers all over the place.

 

Bottom line is the "pro Duke" posters were right that he should have been active the entire season.  When in a game he produced and he provided the O with something they desperately needed in the WR group - a big body.

 

But the fact is that McD values the offense less then the other two units or he would have sat Foster and played Duke.  Ditto for Yeldon.  This also explains the reluctance to give Singleterry the ball more.  The risk of a fumble outweighs the gain of a big play.  IMO this type of thinking has to end and should be a point of introspection on the part of McD in the off season. 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

Duke is what he is. A mediocre player.  I fought for him all year long and I still would if this was next years roster.  He is a mediocre player that is better than Foster.  For all the guys pounding the table that Foster had to play because he is the gunner... Didn't miss him one bit.  Duke at least made SOME plays on offense while the special teams coverage didn't miss a beat.

Duke should have been playing all season.  John Brown is our number 1.  As much as I love the guy... he couldn't even toe tap today.  Foster would have been worthless out there today as he has been all season.  Duke made some plays and got us some first downs.  One of them taken away on a beautiful catch.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

agreed  I'd love to see WR1 added and all three of those guys bumped down one notch and addd a wr5 who really is a wr  No more special teams guys,gadget players  TE keep Knox and draft a big physical TE who is a run mauler and can be a red zone target  Kroft is neither and Sweeney cant block  Lee Smith is just a blocker

Dump Smith, Kroft and Sweeney. All worthless. Keep Knox as development and maybe Croon. And draft or sign H. Henry. We still have no #1 wr?

3 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

he's better than anyone not named John Brown or Cole Beasley on the Bills right now  Too bad it took all year for the staff to figure this out

That's the embarrassment of our coaches all year. Duke losing targets over Foster, McKenzie or Roberts is flat out stupidity. 

[simpleman]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

Should have caught the TD. The others were pretty tough.

 

What annoys me about him is he acts like he won the super bowl after every single catch. Just get back to the huddle, man. Act like you've been there before.

Yes, but at least he is excited by the game. Kinda like the coach that claps too much and Oliver, who acts just like Duke after every tackle he makes. Maybe too much celebration about just doing their jobs, but Duke and Oliver are just excited and enjoying playing the game. As long as it doesn't get them penalized and hurt the team just let them have fun. Except for the fact he is a bona fide superstar, how was Watt reacting any different. They kept playing his comments while miked up.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by simpleman

[Doc Brown]

The fact he played more snaps than Beasley bothered me.  Maybe Daboll can explain it in his coaching interviews.

[familykwi]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Both plays the db did a great job to knock the ball out....

The first one, is more on Duke.  He does not get both hands to the ball (despite what Booger said), only one.  He needs to track better on that one.

 

The second one would have been amazing if he could have held on.  Only a few receivers could have maintained that one.

Edited January 5, 2020 by familykwi
grammer edit

[simpleman]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Duke is what he is. A mediocre player.

 

Yes he is. He is no starter, but as WR 4 or 5 he is comfortably at his ceiling. And that ceiling is higher than any WR currently on the roster not named Brown or Beasley.  Wonder if he could up his blocking skills enough to make himself valuable enough to make the team next year?

[Turk71]

6 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

That catch on the Allen scramble to the right was incredible by Singletary......more touches for this guys please in OT and this message board may not be the mess it is atm

 

More? Did he get any in ot?

[ILBillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

More? Did he get any in ot?

unfortunately no

[MJS]

54 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Yes, but at least he is excited by the game. Kinda like the coach that claps too much and Oliver, who acts just like Duke after every tackle he makes. Maybe too much celebration about just doing their jobs, but Duke and Oliver are just excited and enjoying playing the game. As long as it doesn't get them penalized and hurt the team just let them have fun. Except for the fact he is a bona fide superstar, how was Watt reacting any different. They kept playing his comments while miked up.

 

I think Duke takes it to a slightly higher level than those others. And he did hurt the team once week 17 by not getting back to the huddle because he wanted to show off instead.

 

Anyway, it's not that important. Just a minor annoyance. And actually I don't like showboating from any player.

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I wouldn’t consider those “drops.” I’d also like to see any other receiver on this team make those catches. 

 

I went through the same thing with people about the Zay Jones miss in the Carolina game a couple years ago.  It was a very difficult catch but many people were calling it a drop.  May not worth the time trying to convince them.