dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 ... zero Bills on either the first or second team defense. The Bills finished 2nd in points allowed, 3rd in yards allowed, 3rd in opposing team passer rating, 3rd in net yards per passing attempt allowed, 2nd in passing tds allowed, 10th in turnovers forced, 2nd in points allowed per drive, 4th in yards allowed per drive, and 5th in plays allowed per drive. They were also ranked 5th in overall defensive DVOA by Football Outsiders, for what it’s worth. Analytics! https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2019-pff-nfl-all-pro-team 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF. lol 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Haven't said it in a while, but I hate PFF! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Chris Collinsworth part owner. Nuff Said 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons99 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Poor football focus. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ... zero Bills on either the first or second team defense. The Bills finished 2nd in points allowed, 3rd in yards allowed, 3rd in opposing team passer rating, 3rd in net yards per passing attempt allowed, 2nd in passing tds allowed, 10th in turnovers forced, 2nd in points allowed per drive, 4th in yards allowed per drive, and 5th in plays allowed per drive. They were also ranked 5th in overall defensive DVOA by Football Outsiders, for what it’s worth. Analytics! https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2019-pff-nfl-all-pro-team a good team can have a lot of good players without having the #1 at a position. Likewise a bad team can have the #1 at a position. tre is really the only one with a strong case, no? Edited January 1, 2020 by NoSaint 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Good. It means that it is a team defense and that the parts are relatively easy to mix and match. Unlike Houston (for example), when Watt went down so didnt the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: a good team can have a lot of good players without having the #1 at a position. Likewise a bad team can have the #1 at a position. Did you PFF writer Sam Monson’s staggeringly stupid thread about Tre White? There’s so much wrong with this I don’t even know where to begin. It’s as if he’s completely unaware that the Bills run a matchup-zone system. https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1212044325250580480 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF is an absolute joke. I’m not sure why we even see threads like this started at this point. They obviously play favourites and are as close to Clickbait as it gets when it comes to media covering the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 One of PFF's analysts had an awful thread about Tre White's absence on this list: Does PFF know about zone defense? This is crazy. Here's a bonus just for fun: 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, NoSaint said: a good team can have a lot of good players without having the #1 at a position. Likewise a bad team can have the #1 at a position. tre is really the only one with a strong case, no? Jordan Phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Good. Beane can use this in future negotiations with players. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said: PFF is an absolute joke. I’m not sure why we even see threads like this started at this point. They obviously play favourites and are as close to Clickbait as it gets when it comes to media covering the NFL. I don’t think they play favorites as much as rely on a flawed system that simply can’t deal with the complexity of 22 moving parts on every play. Just as importantly, all of those moving parts are playing within schemes that vary from play to play based on an always evolving situational context, and PFF isn’t privy to the directives that coaches are issuing to their players. Edited January 1, 2020 by dave mcbride 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 How many DT in this league have more sacks than Jordan Phillips? Tre White needs to be on any All Pro team - thats not me being a homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 their PFF average linear logarithmic DVOaA isn’t high enough. Duuuuuhh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: One of PFF's analysts had an awful thread about Tre White's absence on this list: Does PFF know about zone defense? This is crazy. Here's a bonus just for fun: He also says that there were 21 plays in which he was beat and the qb didn’t connect, but doesn’t mention that the Bills played 5 games in absolutely dreadful conditions for qbs (4 with 20+ mph winds) that will change how a defense approaches its pass D. Edited January 1, 2020 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 All you have to know is in an age of expanding analytics PFF has had three employees hired by the NFL. context Giants just hired 4 “computer guys alone”. if they were so good at their proprietary system (and having a former NFL player as owner) they would have a ton more than 3 staff members hired up from them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I stopped at PFF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Sherman has had an impressive season but this has to be a joke. Oh yeah, its PFF, it’s implied that it’s a joke. the only Corner to lead the league in picks and give up zero tds since their existence. Meanwhile Sherman is covering behind the best DL in the NFL. Pressure much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I couldn't care less what Professionally Flawed Failures think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He also says that there were 21 plays in which he was beat and the qb didn’t connect, but doesn’t mention that the Bills played 5 games in absolutely dreadful conditions for qbs (4 with 20+ mph winds) that will change how a defense approaches its pass D. The worst part of his nonsense reasoning is using yards given up. First of all, how do they decide who is responsible in a zone defense without knowing the play call? It's impossible. Secondly, do they factor in that our whole defensive philosophy is bend don't break? We don't mind giving up 10 yards at the opponent's 20 yard line if we make the tackle. That philosophy affects how every member of the secondary plays their zone/man. Just really wild stuff from a website that claims to be a trusted source in football analysis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, HappyDays said: One of PFF's analysts had an awful thread about Tre White's absence on this list: Does PFF know about zone defense? This is crazy. Here's a bonus just for fun: They said White gave up over 500 yards? There's no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF is great to add on to an argument on how good a player is but that's it. It's just a good reference tool, their system is wayy to flawed , it shouldn't be considered as " the holy Grail" in determining how good a players season is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) To me the simplest way to evaluate a CB is their passer rating given up. So Sam Monson asks a gotcha question about TJ Carrie's 0 TDs given up. Well according to Pro Football Reference, Carrie has given up a passer rating of 96.1 this year. Good one, Sam. White has given up a passer rating of 44.5. As a point of reference, Nate Peterman had a 45.3 passer rating against the Bears last year - he threw for 0 TDs, 3 INTs, and had 3.84 YPA. QBs targeting Tre White this year were Nate Peterman for an entire season. But he doesn't qualify as one of PFF's top CBs because of his "yards per coverage snap." This is actually unbelievable! Here are the passer ratings given up of their top 4 CBs: Richard Sherman: 58.7 Stephon Gilmore: 43.4 Casey Hayward: 98.7 (!!!) Quinton Dunbar: 68.4 Gilmore is the only one that belongs in the conversation with White. Including Hayward is a complete joke. Edited January 1, 2020 by HappyDays 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritBill Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Take it Suck Hodges is the QB? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 You shouldn't be using what might have happened when picking an ALL PRO team. All Pro is descriptive, what happened that season. Sorry doesn't pass the smell test as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 My thoughts are the tape don’t lie, and many of White’s yards against happen when we are letting teams complete underneath passes against soft zones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) PFF is useless. A bunch of dorks making YouTube videos from their mom's basement. They have absolutely 0 credibility, 0. I have no idea who pays attention to anything they have to say and those who actually pay for any sort of subscription are the reason this world is in the state it's in today. Stupidity. Edited January 1, 2020 by H2o 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF gonna PFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watkins101 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 42 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He also says that there were 21 plays in which he was beat and the qb didn’t connect, but doesn’t mention that the Bills played 5 games in absolutely dreadful conditions for qbs (4 with 20+ mph winds) that will change how a defense approaches its pass D. I don't think this argument really helps. It reads as "Tre was only a top notch cornerback because he played in a lot of bad weather games' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I get the feeling they slighted Tre because they knew it would piss off Bills fans and get them a bunch of clicks and retweets and the majority of football fans wouldn't pay enough attention to the Bills to care. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Buftex said: Haven't said it in a while, but I hate PFF! I make it a point to say it daily. It throws me off if I don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Why do you folks care about this stuff? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 44 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The worst part of his nonsense reasoning is using yards given up. First of all, how do they decide who is responsible in a zone defense without knowing the play call? It's impossible. Secondly, do they factor in that our whole defensive philosophy is bend don't break? We don't mind giving up 10 yards at the opponent's 20 yard line if we make the tackle. That philosophy affects how every member of the secondary plays their zone/man. Just really wild stuff from a website that claims to be a trusted source in football analysis. Ultimately no stat or ranking systems going to be perfect. Cold data doesn’t account for any of the factors you point at and human adjustments come with both bias and errors. Out of curiosity, do we know where he landed in their rankings? is the argument 6 vs 3 or is it 14 vs 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinxedBill Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Any system is grossly inefficient if it must assign fault to a single player on a deeper pass when it is quite often an assortment of factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Didn't Roberts make the special teams as KR and PR? I think I saw that on the intertube earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: ... zero Bills on either the first or second team defense. The Bills finished 2nd in points allowed, 3rd in yards allowed, 3rd in opposing team passer rating, 3rd in net yards per passing attempt allowed, 2nd in passing tds allowed, 10th in turnovers forced, 2nd in points allowed per drive, 4th in yards allowed per drive, and 5th in plays allowed per drive. They were also ranked 5th in overall defensive DVOA by Football Outsiders, for what it’s worth. Analytics! https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2019-pff-nfl-all-pro-team Who were your obvious snubs besides Tre White? Let me go one step further. Who, besides Tre, on the Bills defense has a CASE for an All Pro selection by the AP this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF loves to cherry pick stats. They are essentially message board trolls that charge to read their terrible takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ultimately no stat or ranking systems going to be perfect. Cold data doesn’t account for any of the factors you point at and human adjustments come with both bias and errors. Out of curiosity, do we know where he landed in their rankings? is the argument 6 vs 3 or is it 14 vs 3? He wrote “just short” so I imagine he was extremely close. In that case, this isn’t that big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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