Crazy rule change idea I had that doesn't seem so crazy the longer I think about: Make failed 4th down conversions worth 1 point

[ThurmasThoman]

Football is the only major spot where an offense possessing the ball willingly gives it up when it is not taken from them by rule, as opposed to actively trying to score. No matter how much analysis is done on the cost/benefit of going for it every fourth down, the trend from high school to college to the pros is to punt it away and play it safe. No matter if the coach is analytical and methodical like Belichick, or freewheeling and cutting edge like Peterson or McVay, this is one trend that no one is willing to buck. 

Also, football is the only major sport that can't end with a final score of 1-0. Not that this is something to strive for, I just have always found it interesting.

 

So this rule fixes both of those, and please, hammer me (pause) with the drawbacks or the reasons why this is idiotic... because at first I thought it was pure ridiculousness, but now I'm not so sure. As the kids say "change my mind".

There are no special circumstances to consider, no contingencies, no need to differentiate across different levels of the game.

Just like the title says: all failed fourth down conversions are worth 1 point for the attempting offense.

 

Advantages:

1) Virtually no team would punt outside their 40 yard line, which would eliminate a good chunk of punts from the game entirely. The punt has become a boring play--too many fair catches, too much directional punting, not enough action. The NFL seems to hate special teams plays as it is, and I don't know how much they're concerned about injuries on punts (probably less, because blockers can line up so close to the kicking team) but this would go a long way towards mitigating them.

 

2) It incentivises a "risky" behavior that we all want to see more of, and allows for more strategizing/second guessing. With the way the game is trending, everyone loves offense. We all hate when the punting team runs out on the field. This could lead to more stalemates at the middle of the field (between the 40s), where defensive teams could trade blows and still have something to show for it. Or imagine a scenario where Buf takes it to midfield against the Pats and has 4th and 2--go for it, fail, get a point. Maybe the Pats kick a field goal, but it reduces their net score to 2. Even if they score a touchdown, it reduces their net score to 6, and if we drove deep into their territory on the next drive, it could be a 5 point game with another failed conversion. 

 

3) The ending of games becomes wild. Let's say a team up 8 possess the ball on their side of the field. They're stopped on 1st through 3rd down, but their opponents are out of timeouts. Go for it and win by securing the extra point? But now your opponent has the ball deep in your zone, they could turn around and kick a field goal and then go for an onside kick? 

 

I'll use this space to keep adding advantages I can think of, and addressing any concerns.

These are the kind of threads that the offseason inspires, what can I say.

[GoBills808]

So game is tied w/ 1 min left, team takes 4 straight kneel downs at their own 20 to win the game? 

[ThurmasThoman]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So game is tied w/ 1 min left, team takes 4 straight kneel downs at their own 20 to win the game? 

Welp, grand opening, grand closing.

[whatdrought]

Oh boy. 

 

I thought this was a bad idea when I thought the defense got the point. Now I’m really thinking no... 

 

the reward for a 4th down conversion is getting the ball longer. The punishment is failure. Let’s not incentivize failure. This sounds like something they would do in Canadian football.

[NewEra]

Would make the game more interesting.  Much more complicated.  Basically reinventing the game.  Does it need to be more interesting and reinvented?  For safety reasons, yes.  This doesn’t make the game any more safe

[Fr. Jerk]

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyGold said:

Welp, grand opening, grand closing.

It needs some work...how about instead having a punt be worth -1 points?

[Doc Brown]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So game is tied w/ 1 min left, team takes 4 straight kneel downs at their own 20 to win the game? 

The QB could snap it on 4th down with two seconds left.  Run outside the pocket and then chuck it in the stands for a walkoff victory.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Doc Brown

[Just Joshin']

Well it is better than trading all 2019 draft picks for equal 2020 draft picks.

 

Interesting idea but does not seem practical.

[BillsSB2020]

So you award a team a point for failure? I just don't......Nevermind.

[RobbRiddick]

Sorry but it drives me mad when people talk about eliminating punts. I know, I'm probably an old bastard but for Christ's sake! The punt is an integral part of the game. Not because it's exciting in terms of getting a return for a TD, but because it's a huge part of the field position, the STRATEGY. I love it when a team is on the edge of FG range in a REALLY tight game and the coach has to make a decision on 4th down, do I attempt a long FG and potentially give the other team excellent field position or do I punt it and try to pin them deep in their own territory?

 

It's ***** beautiful, and that's one of the many reasons why I like the tight defensive games. Strategy, cat and mouse, a game of chess.

 

 

[K-9]

Except that the ball IS taken from the offense legitimately. There are a number of ways for a defense to take the ball away from an offense and forcing a turnover on downs is one of them. Can’t get behind a rule that would reward the offense for failing to get a first down.

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, JohnnyGold said:

Also, football is the only major sport that can't end with a final score of 1-0. Not that this is something to strive for, I just have always found it interesting.

Not true, there is a 1 point safety.

[Doc Brown]

Colts trick play nets them a point.

 

[Tuco]

8 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

Not true, there is a 1 point safety.

 

The 1 point safety can only occur on a try after a touchdown. Therefore it still can't be 1-0.

 

That said, this whole idea sucks, lol.

[Aussie Joe]

Needs more “hear me out”...

[Foxx]

in the world of sports you get rewarded for successes, not failures.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Foxx

[H2o]

2 hours ago, JohnnyGold said:

Welp, grand opening, grand closing.

God d*mn your man Hov cracked the can open again. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by H2o

[The Firebaugh Kid]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

So game is tied w/ 1 min left, team takes 4 straight kneel downs at their own 20 to win the game? 

Im sure hes working out the kinks still.

 

This post is by far my favorite, ever. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

I’m amazed you didn’t start with “Hear me out...”

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

So game is tied w/ 1 min left, team takes 4 straight kneel downs at their own 20 to win the game? 

I’m assuming the thread ends here? ?

[oldmanfan]

You earn points in any sporting endeavor by good play, not bad play.

[brianthomas]

The only rule change that I can get behind that involves the 4th down scenario is one where you remove the onside kick & give the team an opportunity to retain possession with a 4th & 15 from their own 35. That rule change makes sense imo. This change posited here not so much, but I appreciate the intent.

 

And I for one don't mind the punt / punt return part of the game. For me the bigger problems are Onside Kicks & Kickoffs in general. The league has neutered both with the intent to protect the players where now both just aren't an interesting part of the game anymore. With onside kicks there's practically no chance of recovering the ball & with kickoffs all you really get are extra TV commercials out of it, as the refs setup the ball before the kick & after.

Those 2 areas alone all chip away at what made the NFL exciting to watch imo. But I don't want to steer this thread away from the OP so I'll digress & apologize if I have

Edited March 10, 2019 by brianthomas

[Pbomb]

I think they should take it a step further and award points for more things. First downs, sacks , turnovers, timeouts, etc. the possibilities are endless. There would be no more boring games if the scores were 200 to 225 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Deprive us of Leodis ‘Oops’ McKelvin (or someone similar) from fielding a punt?!?  No, sir, I cannot cotton to that!

[DC Tom]

How about we make each yard gained worth a point times the down times the square of the quarter?  That way, when a team only gains 7 yards the first three quarters, and is getting blown out, they still have a chance to win the game with a last second 4th down 90-yard hail mary that would be worth 576 points?  

[Jay_Fixit]

This is the worst idea I’ve ever read.

[Hurricane]

1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is the worst idea I’ve ever read.

Lmao

[White Linen]

and 2 points if you don't use all your challenges

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, JohnnyGold said:

Welp, grand opening, grand closing.

Best ‘mea culpa’ line I’ve seen in years.  ?

 

As for your idea, Uncle Rico’s going to throw a potato at you.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[hemma]

Need to give it a name, just to make sure it happens ...

I got it ... Green New Deal!

[Freddie's Dead]

This is one step away from fascism.  Next thing you know, we'll add the "rouge" for punts into the end zone.  Maroon would love that.  4th and one at the opponents 30, he'd take the point.

[Golden Goat]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It needs some work...how about instead having a punt be worth -1 points?

 

Because then we'd lose to the Pats 42-1.

[bbb]

3 hours ago, JohnnyGold said:

Football is the only major spot where an offense possessing the ball willingly gives it up when it is not taken from them by rule, as opposed to actively trying to score. No matter how much analysis is done on the cost/benefit of going for it every fourth down, the trend from high school to college to the pros is to punt it away and play it safe. No matter if the coach is analytical and methodical like Belichick, or freewheeling and cutting edge like Peterson or McVay, this is one trend that no one is willing to buck. 

Also, football is the only major sport that can't end with a final score of 1-0. Not that this is something to strive for, I just have always found it interesting.

 

So this rule fixes both of those, and please, hammer me (pause) with the drawbacks or the reasons why this is idiotic... because at first I thought it was pure ridiculousness, but now I'm not so sure. As the kids say "change my mind".

There are no special circumstances to consider, no contingencies, no need to differentiate across different levels of the game.

Just like the title says: all failed fourth down conversions are worth 1 point for the attempting offense.

 

Advantages:

1) Virtually no team would punt outside their 40 yard line, which would eliminate a good chunk of punts from the game entirely. The punt has become a boring play--too many fair catches, too much directional punting, not enough action. The NFL seems to hate special teams plays as it is, and I don't know how much they're concerned about injuries on punts (probably less, because blockers can line up so close to the kicking team) but this would go a long way towards mitigating them.

 

2) It incentivises a "risky" behavior that we all want to see more of, and allows for more strategizing/second guessing. With the way the game is trending, everyone loves offense. We all hate when the punting team runs out on the field. This could lead to more stalemates at the middle of the field (between the 40s), where defensive teams could trade blows and still have something to show for it. Or imagine a scenario where Buf takes it to midfield against the Pats and has 4th and 2--go for it, fail, get a point. Maybe the Pats kick a field goal, but it reduces their net score to 2. Even if they score a touchdown, it reduces their net score to 6, and if we drove deep into their territory on the next drive, it could be a 5 point game with another failed conversion. 

 

3) The ending of games becomes wild. Let's say a team up 8 possess the ball on their side of the field. They're stopped on 1st through 3rd down, but their opponents are out of timeouts. Go for it and win by securing the extra point? But now your opponent has the ball deep in your zone, they could turn around and kick a field goal and then go for an onside kick? 

 

I'll use this space to keep adding advantages I can think of, and addressing any concerns.

These are the kind of threads that the offseason inspires, what can I say.

 

Great idea.  But, why stop there?  How about giving a point for not converting a two point conversion? 

 

This is Mike Schoop's dream.

[unbillievable]

A point for hitting the uprights. So if the team is down by 4 points...

[nedboy7]

How about the Bills get 1 point at the end of each quarter. 

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is the worst idea I’ve ever read.

 

Which is remarkable considering the Broncos' idiotic "instead of an onside kick attempt you get a 4th and 15 play after you score" proposal happened this week too.

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is the worst idea I’ve ever read.

 

Which?  The original post, or mine?

[BillsSB2020]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

How about we make each yard gained worth a point times the down times the square of the quarter?  That way, when a team only gains 7 yards the first three quarters, and is getting blown out, they still have a chance to win the game with a last second 4th down 90-yard hail mary that would be worth 576 points?  

Thank you for being the voice of reason here!

 

While we're at it, it's criminal that basketball hasn't adopted a 40 point 3/4 court shot. Why shouldn't a team down by 39 at least have a puncher's chance in the final seconds? 

 

People need to get with the times!

Edited March 11, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[Augie]

4 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Oh boy. 

 

 I thought this was a bad idea when I thought the defense got the point. Now I’m really thinking no... 

 

the reward for a 4th down conversion is getting the ball longer. The punishment is failure. Let’s not incentivize failure. This sounds like something they would do in Canadian football.

 

I skimmed, so had too go back after reading the bold. 

 

Huh? 

 

The last sentance of your post....should be the last sentance if this thread. 

 

EDIT: I take it back. There’s some good humor in the middle here! 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Augie

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

This is one step away from fascism.  Next thing you know, we'll add the "rouge" for punts into the end zone.  Maroon would love that.  4th and one at the opponents 30, he'd take the point.

 

You are missing out on the CFL ending with a tie game and one play and the O punts it trying to down it in the EZ for the win. So the D kicks it out and the O kicks it in again, went five kicks on one play in the 70s.