How does a QB deficient team pass on Mahomes/Watson

[Rebel101]

I just don’t understand how this happened. I know I am beating a dead horse. But honestly I thought drafts are about best player available/ filling a team need at the same time. Is it really possible that McDermott didn’t think either were NFL caliber players? I just don’t see how if he thought they were franchise QBs how he could pass on either. The Chiefs has a starting QB and traded up. This really makes me question his talent evaluation on offense. And makes me worry about Josh Allen. Who basically came out rawer and way less accomplished then either QB he passed on. Has he ever been asked this question? And if so, what was his answer? Is his only excuse is he didn’t have a GM? I mean if he did see them as franchise QBs how could you pass on adding the corner stone of your team for years to come? Not making that pick forces us to waste a lot of future picks, and is the reason we are in a complete rebuild. Getting Mahomes/Watson that year changes everything. We’d still have Glenn and Dawkins which together gives our OLine a great start.  Would have been able to fill the middle in FA and draft. And used the 2018 offseason to offense and a few defense through the draft. This was a huge blunder by McDermott and is the reason we are in a complete tear down and build process. I feel like McBeane did this to guarantee their jobs for as many years as possible. I say this “PROCESS” gives them a minimum of 4 years of a having guaranteed job

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Rebel101 said:

I just don’t understand how this happened. I know I am beating a dead horse. But honestly I thought drafts are about best player available/ filling a team need at the same time. Is it really possible that McDermott didn’t think either were NFL caliber players? I just don’t see how if he thought they were franchise QBs how he could pass on either. The Chiefs has a starting QB and traded up. This really makes me question his talent evaluation on offense. And makes me worry about Josh Allen. Who basically came out rawer and way less accomplished then either QB he passed on. Has he ever been asked this question? And if so, what was his answer? Is his only excuse is he didn’t have a GM? I mean if he did see them as franchise QBs how could you pass on adding the corner stone of your team for years to come? Not making that pick forces us to waste a lot of future picks, and is the reason we are in a complete rebuild. Getting Mahomes/Watson that year changes everything. We’d still have Glenn and Dawkins which together gives our OLine a great start.  Would have been able to fill the middle in FA and draft. And used the 2018 offseason to offense and a few defense through the draft. This was a huge blunder by McDermott and is the reason we are in a complete tear down and build process. I feel like McBeane did this to guarantee their jobs for as many years as possible. I say this “PROCESS” gives them a minimum of 4 years of a having guaranteed job

Then why? 

[stuvian]

They didn't want to let Whaley make the franchise QB pick. What hurts more is that we wouldn't have had to trade up to get Mahomes as we did Allen. I'm not knocking Allen.I think he's a good pick but Mahomes is freaking Dan Marino. 

[Rebel101]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

Then why? 

Because I wanted to and that’s what this board is for. Why’d you open it, read it, and take the time to copy past and post it? 

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

They didn't want to let Whaley make the franchise QB pick. What hurts more is that we wouldn't have had to trade up to get Mahomes as we did Allen. I'm not knocking Allen.I think he's a good pick but Mahomes is freaking Dan Marino. 

Yeah but that’s a terrible reason. He was getting fired either way. It is still undetermined if Allen will be good or not. But yeah we def could have saved ourself a lot of picks 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Rebel101

[John from Riverside]

Because they were about to lose their starting Pro Bowl to free agency.  So they traded down and got Tre WHite

 

Because they HAD a starting QB......he was not a pro bowl guy regardless of making pro bowls.....but they did have a starting guy

 

Because the following draft was supposed to be a QB draft.....and when you connect the dots it looks like the plan was ALWAYS to take a QB that following year

 

?????

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Rebel101 said:

 Because I wanted to and that’s what this bored is for. Why’d you open it, read it, and take the time to copy past and post it? 

Yeah but that’s a terrible reason. He was getting fired either way. It is still undetermined if Allen will be good or not. But yeah we def could have saved ourself a lot of picks 

 

I don’t really think you helped yourself there, but I’m a friendly guy.  ?

[Rc2catch]

What are the odds Watson or Mahomes is successful here? Even with the players lost via trade and free agency.

Why is it a given they “missed” on these picks? 

Watson is a year and a half into his career and what 6-7 games for Mahomes? 

While im not sold on Allen as a franchise guy I just don’t see the fascination with other quarterbacks we could of drafted instead.

totally different systems and team situations. 

[Your Brown Eye]

How? By drafting someone(s) else

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

It's a mistake, but has been brought up numerous times in other threads. 

[NoSaint]

I always kind of assumed McD wanted a more polished guy.

 

then we took the least polished guy of either draft (you know, of the viable ones... I’m talking top picks)

[John from Riverside]

Just now, BillsRdue said:

It's a mistake, but has been brought up numerous times in other threads. 

We do not know if it was a mistake yet

 

Whether Josh Allen pans out will determine the success of the trade.....period and that is not going to be determined this year

[YoloinOhio]

Ugh.. it’s painful but anyway this is a good read 

 

[bills11]

34 minutes ago, Rebel101 said:

Because I wanted to and that’s what this bored is for. Why’d you open it, read it, and take the time to copy past and post it? 

Yeah but that’s a terrible reason. He was getting fired either way. It is still undetermined if Allen will be good or not. But yeah we def could have saved ourself a lot of picks 

Yes it's terrible but it's something we're going to see time and time again ...Chip Kelly wanted his guys before that mcdaniels was so against inheriting players he drafted tebow first Rd..McDermott has a massive ego like many others .

[Success]

People forget how both QBs were talked about in the draft.  It’s always such a crapshoot.  Threads like this are well meaning, but pure hindsight.

 

Watson was all about the velocity.  There were probably dozens of threads talking about his velocity.  I think there was some stat that no one had succeeded in the nfl with his velocity.

 

And Mahones was considered as much of a project as Allen.  Most of this board would have gone bananas if we picked him in the first.

 

I think they were smart to wait for the draft that was considered the most deep at QB in years.  And they made their move - picked a guy that a few had projected as the top pick.  

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Rebel101 said:

I just don’t understand how this happened. I know I am beating a dead horse.

 

You are beating a bottle of stale, hardened glue at this point.

 

Jesus, people...let it go.

[DRA3196]

Wilson...Watson, Mahomes. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It's obvious that Beane and McDermott have a plan for the direction that they want to go. Have they made some mistakes along the way, absolutely. They can judge talent, one thing they can't evaluate is heart or determination. Simply because someone has talent doesn't necessarily mean they are a fit for what they are trying to build or establish. And just because someone is a FA doesn't mean they are a good fit for what the organization is trying to do. Maybe their personality or attitude isn't a fit. Maybe they just don't want to be here. The current product on the field is a work in progress. Both Beane and McDermott admitted last year was an enigma and that we were going to struggle. I for one am excited about the direction the organization is headed. It isn't perfect but it is entertaining.

[whatdrought]

Every team in the NFL has changed QB's at least once since they passed on Tom Brady multiple times. 

 

This is reductionist history. Nobody has ever passed on a 100%, guarantee of a QB prospect. 

[Mr. WEO]

So......is the OP suggesting someone should be fired over Mahomes?  (Asking for a friend)

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

So......is the OP suggesting someone should be fired over Mahomes?  (Asking for a friend)

Perhaps he's saying how'd we get stuck with Josh Allen honestly it's all starting to blur together.

[CookieG]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

You are beating a bottle of stale, hardened glue at this point.

 

Jesus, people...let it go.

lol...welp...when I was growing up, it was during the Lamonica era in Oakland.  In those days, the Raiders were really the Raiders, the badasses of the AFl/AFC. Not only was it pre-Interwebia, but it was pre-cable. The Raiders were on TV a lot.

 

and from my childhood memories, whenever they were on, my father, an uncle, a neighbor or whatever grown ups were in the room, someone would remark, "Why'd we ever trade that guy?" Then the discussion would begin. 

 

And that was years after he was traded, and pretty much went on as long as he was their QB. I don't suspect it was different from other Buffalo area households.

 

Unless Allen becomes the stud he's supposed to be, or until Mahomes does an RGIII, expect it to continue.

 

Watching a guy you passed on become Kurt Warner before your eyes isn't easy to watch...especially when the consensus was that an upgrade from Tyrod was priority one.

 

I mean, damn...a few weeks ago, someone started the discussion about who was really responsible for drafting EJ Manuel, Buddy or Whaley? That was 5 years ago, when the alternative was...um.? 

 

This has been 7 games..I don't know why anyone would think people would remain silent.

[Rebel101]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Because they were about to lose their starting Pro Bowl to free agency.  So they traded down and got Tre WHite

 

Because they HAD a starting QB......he was not a pro bowl guy regardless of making pro bowls.....but they did have a starting guy

 

Because the following draft was supposed to be a QB draft.....and when you connect the dots it looks like the plan was ALWAYS to take a QB that following year

 

?????

But they had no intentions of keeping Taylor. Because he is not a starting NFL QB. Not even on the Cleveland Browns. I know that is unfair because they of course have just finally hit on their pick so it seems but you get the point. And how do you rely on the next years draft? We made the playoffs and would have never been in position to draft a QB without ridding ourselves our good players

[GreggTX]

Hindsight is golden.

[BBills88]

If everyone in the league know Mahomes & Watson were going to be good. They would have ended up in Cleveland & Chicago, San Francisco. Nobody had Mahomes as a 1st round QB or talent. 

[DefenseWins]

Let's remember that Mahomes had a year to sit on the bench and learn/adjust to the NFL. Would he have looked as good if this were HIS rookie season? And how bout waiting till the off season when Beane can start building a team around Josh Allen. Let's see what Josh can do with some semblance of a team around him.

[simpleman]

12 minutes ago, BBills88 said:

If everyone in the league know Mahomes & Watson were going to be good. They would have ended up in Cleveland & Chicago, San Francisco. Nobody had Mahomes as a 1st round QB or talent. 

Wrong answer. KC rated him not only 1st round, but worth 2 1st rounds, and a third. Just shows what competent scouting and drafting for QBs and offensive players looks like . Wish the Bills had that level of competence.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Listened to Bruce Arian’s today. He said the cardinals wanted mahomes or Watson and both got picked just before them.   He said he may still be coaching if it had worked out.   Our guys saw no value in them.  

[Dr.Sack]

One word and it starts with B and ends in K. 

[Fadingpain]

36 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Listened to Bruce Arian’s today. He said the cardinals wanted mahomes or Watson and both got picked just before them.   He said he may still be coaching if it had worked out.   Our guys saw no value in them.  

But saw lots of value in Nate Peterman and Josh Allen.

 

They'll pay for that colossal error in judgment with their jobs, after next season.

 

 

[bmur66]

Because McDarnitt is a defensive guy

[Fr. Jerk]

7 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I know I am beating a dead horse.

 

[RosenNOTchosen1]

The people running this team suck at evaluating quarterback's.

 

It's that simple dude. Don't overthink it. 

[fansince88]

I have never thought about this....thanks for bringing it up....

[Casey D]

We should always take the best player based on after the fact performance.  Easy.

[Niagara Dude]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

Listened to Bruce Arian’s today. He said the cardinals wanted mahomes or Watson and both got picked just before them.   He said he may still be coaching if it had worked out.   Our guys saw no value in them.  

End of the day Pegula should hire experienced head of football operations to watch over GM and head coach,  Beane has made reckless decisions.  Trading young players Darby and Sammy for second and 3rd rounders was stupid.  You trade older players not younger players,  then passing on Mahomes deserves firing just for that stupid mone,  include the point that Allen looks like bust.

 

Allen did all that running around in college because he is could not make plays passing from the pocket,  i say at very least Beane should be fired.  Like is anyone going to agree with trading Sammy for a second and then giving up 3rd for loser Benjamin.  With Beane we are not rebuilding and talent level is getting worst with him making decisions.

[Troll Toll]

I think the real question is: would they be successful in Buffalo. My gut feeling with Mahomes was that when he landed with Andy Reid he would be fine. I wasn’t sure about DeShaun, but he landed in a good spot in Houston (with Bill O’Brien, DeAndre Hopkins, and a good defense).

 

I honestly don’t know if they would still be successful in Buffalo. 

[Teddy KGB]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

One word and it starts with B and ends in K. 

 

The Bills don’t draft black guys ? 

 

You are a joke 

[ProcessTruster]

whaley

[PeterDude]

9 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

It's a mistake, but has been brought up numerous times in other threads. 

 

And it will be brought up for probably about 15 more years.

 

"Could've had Mahomes…"

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Because they were about to lose their starting Pro Bowl to free agency.  So they traded down and got Tre WHite

 

Because they HAD a starting QB......he was not a pro bowl guy regardless of making pro bowls.....b4ut they did have a starting guy

 

Because the following draft was supposed to be a QB draft.....and when you connect the dots it looks like the plan was ALWAYS to take a QB that following year?????

 

So, how is this move any different than all the other times the Bills have done this exact same thing during the drought????   You're one of those McDermott cheerleaders who has constantly defended his boneheaded plays as "building the team the right way", so how is constantly allowing good/excellent young veterans to walk away in free agency or trading them away for peanuts with the excuse "we can't afford to pay them" or "they wouldn't have re-signed anyways" or "they didn't want to be here" and then using high draft picks to replace them NOT the same thing in 2017 as it was in 2004????  Because McDermott did it instead of Donahoe or Nix or Whaley???

• 1999 Bills draft Antoine Winfield, DB, in the first round.  In 2004, he signs with Minnesota where he plays 9 more seasons and makes the Pro Bowl 3 times.
• 2001 Bills draft Nate Clements, DB, in the first round.  In 2007, after making the Pro Bowl with the Bills, he signs with San Francisco and later with the Cincinatti Bengals.
• 2003 Bills draft Willis McGahee, RB, in the first round.  In 2007, the Bills traded him to the Ravens for a third round pick that they turned into Tentative Trent Edwards while McGahee, who ran for 1200+ yards for the Bills in 2005, ran for 1200+ yards again for Baltimore, and later in his career, ran for 1200+ yards for Denver.  He made the Pro Bowl for both Baltimore and Denver, both of which he helped to the playoffs.
• 2004 Bills sign UDFA TE Jason Peters.  As a TE, Peters was a JAG at best.  As an OT, he was one of the best of his era.  He made the Pro Bowl twice with the Bills before he got in a contract dispute over renegotiating his contract to pay him what he was worth.  The Bills traded him to Philadelphia before the 2009 draft for a 2009 first (Eric Wood) and a fourth (Shawn Nelson).  Peters has made the Pro Bowl 7 more times with Philly and added 2 All Pro honors to his resume.  Except for 2012 when he missed the entire season with an Achilles tear and 2017 when he missed half the year with a knee injury, he's been a Pro Bowler.  He's STILL the anchor of the Eagles OL at  almost 37 years old.
• 2007 Bills draft Marshawn Lynch, RB, in the first round.  Lynch was easily the best RB the Bills had since Thurman Thomas, and probably the best power runner they had since OJ Simpson.  The Bills traded him to Seattle in 2010 for a fourth round draft pick in 2011 and a fifth rounder in 2012 which they turned into the forgettable JAGs Chris Hairston and Tank Carder.  Oh, yeah, and Lynch went on to more Pro Bowls, All Pro honors, and a Super Bowl trophy with Seattle before likely finishing his career in Oakland.
• 2010 Bills draft CJ Spiller, RB, in the first round.  He lacked the size and build to be an every down back but he had speed ... and would cost much less than Lynch if they re-signed Lynch rather than trade him.
• 2012 Bills draft Stephon Gilmore, DB, in the first round.   He was the Bills starting CB for his five seasons here, making the Pro Bowl in 2016.  The Bills let him walk in FA where the Patriots signed him and he's become a proverbial "lock down" corner for the AFC dominating Pats.
• 2012 Bills draft Cordy Glenn, OT, in the second round, finally getting around to replacing Peters.  Glenn was one of the top LTs in the NFL, and Whaley correctly re-signed him to a market rate contract.  In 2017, McDermott drafted Dion Dawkins in the 2nd round, and since he played decently at LT when Glenn was injured, Beane traded Glenn to Cincy for their 2018 first round pick (which was subsequently traded to get Allen) and a fifth round that became Ray-Ray McCloud.
• 2013 Bills draft Robert Woods, WR, in the second round, and Marquise Goodwin, WR, in the third.  Woods was an excellent WR but the Bills supposedly didn't even offer him a contract, so the Rams did.  Goodwin went to San Francisco in FA as well.  Both tore up the league in 2017 while the Bills replaced them with JAGs and bottom feeder WRs -- and needing to spend draft picks higher than Day 3 for NFL caliber WRs.
• 2014 Bills draft Sammy Watkins, WR, in the first round, trading away their 2015 first round pick to trade up to #4.  Watkins had 1000+ yards in 2015 and nearly 1000 yards in 2014 as a rookie.  He still had nearly 500 yards in 2016 in despite missing half the season with injury.  Beane traded Watkins to LA for a second round pick (used to get Allen) and EJ Gaines, CB, in July 2017.

How, exactly, is trading up for a raw "project" QB prospect in the first round in a supposedly great QB class in 2018 all that different from trading up in a supposedly great QB class in 2004???  Except that your heroes McDermott and Beane spent a lot more to get Allen than Donahoe spent to get Losman?   Of course, Donahoe wouldn't have traded up if Roethlisberger had been available when the Bills drafted in 2004.  I doubt he'd have passed on Mahomes or Watson if he'd been GM in 2017 either.  Whatever you  say about Donahoe, he knew talent, especially offensive talent, as did Whaley,  unlike the Bills current clown show leadership.

[H2o]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm all IN on this. 

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

One word and it starts with B and ends in K. 

Book, Ian Book from Notre Dame. Gotcha