Von Miller report?

[HardyBoy]

I'm curious if this shows Miller was relying on his athletic ability and not enough on his technical skill set...or maybe everything was based on his ability to get bend and he never developed a more nuanced technical fundamental set of rush moves.

 

It's really the only thing that makes sense...obviously they had to have seen Miller wasn't able to do the same from an athletic perspective, like elite hall of fame level athleticism, but they had to have figured he was going to be able to rely on the technical part of his game to still be impactful, but why hasn't he?

 

Like Beane and McD aren't morons, as much as people might have issues with them, they are pro level talent evaluators maybe one or two people on this board are even close to the same range in terms of player evaluation... there has to be a reason they keep playing him...what is that reason and it's not that because they're morons, just please for the sake of respect for me typing this all out on a phone, please brainstorm a reason that isnt that to help further the discussion (though I fully support trolling me with "because they're morons moron" lol)

[peterpan]

So here’s an idea, if we don’t have enough DEs, go more 3-3 looks and blitz a guy into Vons lanes.  Our LBs are dynamite blitzers, they can cover, and same with our S and Slot CBs 

[TheBrownBear]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans are harsh. The guy was dominant last year up until the injury.

And I used to be able to dunk a basketball, but now I can't jump over the phonebook.  No offense or blame to Von or Beane or whatever, but Father Time remains undefeated.

[warrior9]

Stef has more tackles this year than Von.. The other teams literally don't even have to block him. He moves like a milkshake being dispensed at McDonalds. 

Edited January 8 by warrior9

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think at this time our only hope is a summer of rest and a pitch count for next year. 

[TheBrownBear]

14 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

I'm curious if this shows Miller was relying on his athletic ability and not enough on his technical skill set...or maybe everything was based on his ability to get bend and he never developed a more nuanced technical fundamental set of rush moves.

 

It's really the only thing that makes sense...obviously they had to have seen Miller wasn't able to do the same from an athletic perspective, like elite hall of fame level athleticism, but they had to have figured he was going to be able to rely on the technical part of his game to still be impactful, but why hasn't he?

 

Like Beane and McD aren't morons, as much as people might have issues with them, they are pro level talent evaluators maybe one or two people on this board are even close to the same range in terms of player evaluation... there has to be a reason they keep playing him...what is that reason and it's not that because they're morons, just please for the sake of respect for me typing this all out on a phone, please brainstorm a reason that isnt that to help further the discussion (though I fully support trolling me with "because they're morons moron" lol)

Because he seemingly lost 20% of his athleticism overnight.  There's no "techniquing" your way to success at edge rusher when you lack baseline NFL athleticism. 

 

Maybe Von makes a miraculous recovery between now and training camp and can provide us with a little juice as a situational pass rusher in 2024.  But he clearly isn't physically capable of really competing on the field of play at this time.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

Because he seemingly lost 20% of his athleticism overnight.  There's no "techniquing" your way to success at edge rusher when you lack baseline NFL athleticism. 

 

Maybe Von makes a miraculous recovery between now and training camp and can provide us with a little juice as a situational pass rusher in 2024.  But he clearly isn't physically capable of really competing on the field of play at this time.

Tre White definitely was called finished when he returned last year. Then he finally was getting back to normal almost 2 years after the injury.

[Niagara Dude]

27 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

I'm curious if this shows Miller was relying on his athletic ability and not enough on his technical skill set...or maybe everything was based on his ability to get bend and he never developed a more nuanced technical fundamental set of rush moves.

 

It's really the only thing that makes sense...obviously they had to have seen Miller wasn't able to do the same from an athletic perspective, like elite hall of fame level athleticism, but they had to have figured he was going to be able to rely on the technical part of his game to still be impactful, but why hasn't he?

 

Like Beane and McD aren't morons, as much as people might have issues with them, they are pro level talent evaluators maybe one or two people on this board are even close to the same range in terms of player evaluation... there has to be a reason they keep playing him...what is that reason and it's not that because they're morons, just please for the sake of respect for me typing this all out on a phone, please brainstorm a reason that isnt that to help further the discussion (though I fully support trolling me with "because they're morons moron" lol)

I think he all about bending and he cannot bend

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

There's no way. Dead cap hit is enormous 

I think far more likely would be he retires if he’s still not able to be game day active - he’s got some pride 

[TheBrownBear]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Tre White definitely was called finished when he returned last year. Then he finally was getting back to normal almost 2 years after the injury.

Sure, I'm hoping for the best with Von, but Tre White was 26 when he injured his ACL in 2021.  Von Miller turns 35 in March. 

[JMM]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans are harsh. The guy was dominant last year up until the injury.

But...isn't that the whole point??? Are we supposed to play him because of what he was???

19 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think he all about bending and he cannot bend

Disagree. He had not just amazing bendabilty,  perhaps the best I've seen since Bruce, but also great explosion and several special moves.  But that all depended on that physical ability which is not there at this point. It may come back as it did after his last knee blowout, but we can't wait at this point. He needs to be inactive from here on out, and let's give him another chance next year.  We are stuck with him anyway cap wise.

Edited January 9 by JMM

[Ethan in Cleveland]

So in fairness to Miller, did anyone on the DL make an impact last night? 

The top 6 tacklers were all back 7 guys

Jones is the only DL with more than one tackle credit.

Dodson got credit for a sack but I really don't recall it.

I am not sure any DL even got close to Tua

[Rew]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Doesn’t mean we should judge his current play on what he was. It’s perfectly reasonable to believe he’s toast at this point.

It's equally reasonable to believe that he is still recovering and will look better every week and certainly be better next year than he is now.  Given his age and injury, it's reasonable to wonder what dropoff he'll eventually have, but pretending that his current condition is his forever condition starts to seem unreasonable.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

20 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Sure, I'm hoping for the best with Von, but Tre White was 26 when he injured his ACL in 2021.  Von Miller turns 35 in March. 

You don’t have to hope for anything. Let’s stop bashing the guy like he had anything to do with his struggles. He was exactly what we wanted before injury.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

This whole "he'll never recover" mentality makes no sense. He's not even 85% back at his current level. It's very reasonable to expect him to be improved next year. Will he have a falloff due to being 35 instead of say 32-33 before that? Yes. Will he recover "100%"? Unlikely. However, people writing him off as "done" don't have a lot of evidence for that. Someone who tears an ACL at 34 can absolutely recover most of the way back, but they will generally recover far slower than a 21 year old. If he puts the work in, he can get back to NFL level. Elite level? Who knows, probably not. Still doesn't make him "done". 

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:

Because he seemingly lost 20% of his athleticism overnight.  There's no "techniquing" your way to success at edge rusher when you lack baseline NFL athleticism. 

 

Maybe Von makes a miraculous recovery between now and training camp and can provide us with a little juice as a situational pass rusher in 2024.  But he clearly isn't physically capable of really competing on the field of play at this time.

 

That's what I'm saying though, they obviously think he has enough athleticism to be out there or they wouldn't be playing him...my point is let's assume they are playing him because he is showing at least the athletic floor required to play the position, so why isn't he playing at least a little bit ok?

[Livinginthepast]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

So in fairness to Miller, did anyone on the DL make an impact last night? 

The top 6 tacklers were all back 7 guys

Jones is the only DL with more than one tackle credit.

Dodson got credit for a sack but I really don't recall it.

I am not sure any DL even got close to Tua

I think Dodson got credited for a sack but it wasnt on Tua, it was on the Running back who was going to throw it but nobody was open.

[Ray Finkel]

Playing with 10 with him on the field.

[bmur66]

Jonathan had his chance the week Von was inactive. He didn’t look any better than Miller.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Von Miller isn't close to playing at even replacement level. 

 

I'm sure there's guys sitting on couches that could've filled in and done more than him. 

 

I still have no idea why McBeane activated him so quickly off IR. Could not have been based on anything they saw in practice. 

[sven233]

Admittedly, I haven't gone back and watched the All 22 yet, but he wasn't really noticeable out there last night.  But, in all fairness to Von, none of our pass rushers really ever got a sniff of Tua.  There were a couple of chances here and there, but it was our DEs using their length to alter the passing lanes making it difficult for Tua to throw the ball where he wanted to on a few occasions.  But in terms of rushing the passer, nobody really did that well because the ball was coming out fast.  Tua is a 1 read guy a lot of the time.  Their offense is schemed up and he basically knows where he is going with the ball before it is even snapped.  If you don't take away his first read, the ball is out before the rushers have a chance.  Their offense is pretty unique in that way.  So, until I get a chance to go through the film a little more thoroughly, I am not going to rag on Von when I really don't remember too many other rushers making plays either.

 

Edited January 9 by sven233

[Pete]

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans are harsh. The guy was dominant last year up until the injury.

Milano was twice as dominant as Von as a Bill, pre injury. 

Still, I am not going to start 58, because he hasnt completely healed from a serious injury. 

Neither has Von. Not only does he never make a play, he is a liability every time he is on the field.  If I was opposing OC, I run everything to Von's side.

WTF is Von getting an active spot gameday?

As obvious as Knox getting interfered with at goal line by Apple, its plainly obvious 2024 Von is trash.  Maybe 2025 Von is better, Im not counting on it.  Time and gravity impacts every man, even Von.

[JerseyBills]

11 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

He sucked.  Nothing has or will change. 

This year you're probably correct,  hopefully next year he can get some juice back, he seems like a legit good dude, ya I know the arrest , I wouldn't be surprised if he retired, especially if we won the SB and still has no juice in TC next year,  he'd know he's severely handicapping this team w his cap numbers 

 

Not sure how that would work cap wise but assuming he'd be completely off the books and possibly get a settlement from Pegula or something 

Edited January 9 by JerseyBills

[Bills!Win!]

Is Aaron Maybin still available?

[Man with No Name]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

Is Aaron Maybin still available?

He's only 35. Maybe it's his time!

[Billsatlastin2018]

14 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

Who?

This is it, isn’t it?

 

You CANNOT be invisible as a prominent Pass Rusher in the Playoffs!

CAN NOT PLAY!

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans are harsh. The guy was dominant last year up until the injury.

Yup.

 

And now he sure as shite is NOT! 
Worse, he’s invisible!

 

MUST NOT PLAY again this year!

MUST get out of that terrible Albatross contract next year.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Rudolph has shown a major tendency to hold onto the ball. Miller might have his best chance to do something this week.

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Rudolph has shown a major tendency to hold onto the ball. Miller might have his best chance to do something this week.

 

Going to really hold onto the ball when he doesn't know what he is seeing with coverage.

Edited January 9 by Big Turk

[foreboding]

I saw him working hard on a few rushes

the other night. Pressuring the pocket. 

Edited January 9 by foreboding

[The Jokeman]

I respect Von for his career but right now he just isn't good enough. Keep him benched and give his reps to Kingsley Jonathan so we can determine see if he can possibly replace Shaq in 2023. 

[2003Contenders]

15 hours ago, sven233 said:

Admittedly, I haven't gone back and watched the All 22 yet, but he wasn't really noticeable out there last night.  But, in all fairness to Von, none of our pass rushers really ever got a sniff of Tua.  There were a couple of chances here and there, but it was our DEs using their length to alter the passing lanes making it difficult for Tua to throw the ball where he wanted to on a few occasions.  But in terms of rushing the passer, nobody really did that well because the ball was coming out fast.  Tua is a 1 read guy a lot of the time.  Their offense is schemed up and he basically knows where he is going with the ball before it is even snapped.  If you don't take away his first read, the ball is out before the rushers have a chance.  Their offense is pretty unique in that way.  So, until I get a chance to go through the film a little more thoroughly, I am not going to rag on Von when I really don't remember too many other rushers making plays either.

 

Add also that the Dolphins added new wrinkles with all of the misdirection on the running plays, and I think the DL was instructed to hang back a bit and not over-pursue.

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I respect Von for his career but right now he just isn't good enough. Keep him benched and give his reps to Kingsley Jonathan so we can determine see if he can possibly replace Shaq in 2023. 

Why not have them both back ? Neither costs much

[billsfan714]

I would rather put a CB in Vons DE spot and they would generate more of a pass rush.   I just see him run into the tackle and give up.   Best case scenario he realizes he's done and retires.   He really is absolutely pathetic out there.

[Mango]

18 hours ago, Rew said:

It's equally reasonable to believe that he is still recovering and will look better every week and certainly be better next year than he is now.  Given his age and injury, it's reasonable to wonder what dropoff he'll eventually have, but pretending that his current condition is his forever condition starts to seem unreasonable.

 

 

This is all fine until you lean into the bolded. 

Von really was not any more impactful on Sunday than he was 4-6 weeks ago. There would be next to zero noise about Miller if he has any linear progression. Hell forget linear....just any notable improvement in production. 

At best Von was meh on Sunday...which is the exact same summary of his game ion October, and then again in November, and then again in December.....and then again in January. 

 

Maybe Von comes back improved for 2024, but right now he isn't getting better and he isn't progressing. Full stop. 

Edited January 9 by Mango

[Goin Breakdown]

16 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Von Miller isn't close to playing at even replacement level. 

 

I'm sure there's guys sitting on couches that could've filled in and done more than him. 

 

I still have no idea why McBeane activated him so quickly off IR. Could not have been based on anything they saw in practice. 

Can we imagine what it would be like if Beane had kept him on IR (season ending) what we'd be like?  We'd be talking about how we were misled, lied to, or how the Bills are just too cautious and so on. (I'm not saying you would. Bills fans in general). 

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

Is Aaron Maybin still available?

True fact.

Aaron Maybin generated more QB hits per pass rush snap in his final NFL season, than Von Miller is this season.

[billieve420]

Tre White also struggled coming back from ACL injury last year. Looked slow and someone who had lost a step. However, he looked like his was normal self this season prior to getting hurt again. Not going to judge Von as it will probably take him till next season to fully get healthy based on his age. Coaching staff will need to determine whether he is worth suiting up if they don't think he can contribute this year and other guys are playing better.

Edited January 9 by billieve420

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Tre White also struggled coming back from ACL injury last year. Looked slow and someone who had lost a step. However, he looked like he was normal self this  season prior to getting hurt again. Not going to judge Von as it will probably take him till next season to fully get healthy based on his age. Coaching staff will need to determine whether he is worth suiting up if they don't think he can contribute this year and other guys are playing better.

Totally understand that, and I am open to Von being back to his normal self next season and helping us.

But right now - this season - he is just wasting a gameday roster spot.

[The Jokeman]

58 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why not have them both back ? Neither costs much

Because I think both are bottom of depth chart DEs, we still need at least one starting edge rusher and don't think that Von is that anymore and think we're going to lose Floyd and AJE in UFA.

[Cvanvol7]

7 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Because I think both are bottom of depth chart DEs, we still need at least one starting edge rusher and don't think that Von is that anymore and think we're going to lose Floyd and AJE in UFA.

 

 

Did anyone notice that AJ played? Wondering if his injury is still bothering him because watching the game I thought he was inactive