Josh Allen since the KC win last season….22 TD’s and 16 INT’s.

[1onemangang7]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I think the protect yourself ***** has gotten to his head too. 

I think it's a damn shame and  so many just trust the regime that the only way for philosophical change is the piling up of losses.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Based on last season and tonight, I don’t even know if Allen is in the same category as Herbert and Tua. Certainly not burrow or hurts

 

Burrow just passed for 82 yards and led his team to 3 points with Chase, Higgins and Boyd as his 3 WR's and against a lesser secondary.  Allens playoff stats dwarf Burrows too. 

 

So why is he not in the same category?  Because he had a bad game himself or just because Burrows defense carried him to a Super Bowl?

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the protect yourself ***** has gotten to his head too. 

 

I think this is sort of hitting on the issues.  Josh in 2021 played more free out there, instinctively.  2022, as the season wore on he seemed to have less fun and played in a way where he felt less comfortable.  And tonight, he looked like he had happy feet out there, like he is thinking too much about things that are outside his natural insticnts at the position.

 

I said this last year, I said this over the offseason, and I am gonna say it again.  It's a BIG gamble to risk the prime years of Allen and Diggs on a unproven OC who has never done the job before.  

I am not excusing Allen's poor decisions today, but I have not felt like Josh is nearly as confident or comfortable in Dorseys system.  And quite frankly, I can't stand how Dorsey calls games still.  But Allen just doesn't seem to have as much fun or feel as comfortable as he used to with Dorsey at OC.  

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Burrow just passed for 82 yards and led his team to 3 points with Chase, Higgins and Boyd as his 3 WR's and against a lesser secondary.  Allens playoff stats dwarf Burrows too. 

 

So why is he not in the same category?  Because he had a bad game himself or just because Burrows defense carried him to a Super Bowl?

I'm not worried about Burrow's mental state.  If you lose it mentally as a quarterback you're toast.  

[Aimee75]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

Maybe I am being unfair but I’m tired. I’m tired of seeing the same issues with Josh, him saying he’s working on them and yet nothing changes. As he says himself, same old s**t on a different day. He can talk the talk at least.

Josh needs to clean up his turnovers, but you are talking about a guy who pretty much single handedly carries us to 13 wins/playoffs every year. i can't be bothered to listen to how "tired" people are. Hell, I sat there and watched Scott Norwoods kick go wide right, and the ensuing 3 SB losses after that, and then later down the road, The Music City Miracle, and then 17 years of nothingness. I could complain about being tired too. I am sure we all could. What are you tired of though? NOT going to the SB? Hey, I want to go back too, but if it was easy, every team would have done it. It takes a lot to get there, a lot of it involves being healthy and lucky breaks. It's not an easy feat, even if teams like The Pats and Chiefs make it seem so. It's not, they are exceptions, not the rule. So basically, we have a team that goes to the playoffs year in and out, was 13 seconds away from quite possibly winning it all, and Bills fans have gotten so spoiled that it's not good enough. Believe me, I still sick over "13 seconds", but it beats a drought. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Aimee75

[Dr.Sack]

On Allen’s third pick Diggs is open on a shallow cross. Take the cheese. It seemed like Allen was determined to go at Sauce on that play. He predetermined Davis on that. Did he not see the S over the top, or was it arm arrogance? Either way even one of the best arms in the league can’t make that throw. Hit the free yards. This EJ Manuel level lack of processing / understanding. 

[DrPJax]

31 minutes ago, Beast said:

The first 6 games of last year 17 TD’s and 4 INT’s.

 

What gives?

I know some here think we will be fine but….will we? Will we with such poor QB play? 
 

Is Josh just not a very smart QB? I mean, he said he had to take better care of his body and the ball this past off-season. He did neither in his first meaningful game. And showed nothing of the sort that he gave a crap about doing either of those things.
 

Seriously, what in hell is going on with Josh Allen?

 

Really great points, and stats with analysis. This trend started mid year last year under Dorsey’s supervision.JOSH said he understood the turnovers could lead  to losses. REPEATEDLY STATES he understood, but obviously in certain critical game situations , he reverts to poor decision making that results in point production lost chances , and allows lesser teams to hang around as the self induced pressure keeps intensifying  .  

 

It’s become a noticeably bad trend , pattern of play, where the BILLS QB no longer distributes the ball to several wrs with any consistency.   DAVIS keeps getting few targets and what production IS coming from other than Diggs , beyond the 4 targets to Kincaid?   The same offensive lulls keep appearing now. This pattern resulted  in teams eventually taking Diggs away, and it’s looking like the same situation is about to recur.   What impact did we really get from Hardy or SHERFIELD , after hearing how great they looked in camp?  It’s  becoming disturbing because JOSH  now is not distributing the ball.  He keeps forcing deep throws despite open players being free in shorter routes,  according to film breakdown gurus over at cover one who brought this up in their post game podcast. . 

 

     Once Again , we saw Diggs and Davis almost run into each other on a pass pattern similar to the latter part of last season; so is it poor design or is undisciplined wr play, or inadequate coaching ?   Once we have a lead , ALLEN seems to do the antithesis of conservative winning football, becoming  almost  careless and we keep seeing UNFORCED mistake filled decisions leading to turnover deficits that are almost impossible to overcome. As a younger player , these type of decisions would have gotten him benched , but now post contract, he faces no consequences and delivers platitude filled post game pressers where he repeatedly states “ i cant do that”.   It almost becomes insulting to listen to as a lifetime fan of the team as i just expected more from an organization led by mcd and beane with JOSH being such a likable personality.  

 

     This is not the playoff caliber product that MCD preaches is their standard.  An 0-5 OT record proves this staff and team has, and will,  apparently continue to make crucial game  ending mistakes.  Tonight was yet a whole new way to lose , as its become the standard to give up some huge runs and then some spectacular last second  defensive gaff.  As much as i respect MCD as a quality man, it’s becoming a recognizable trademark to have games end with some terrible walk off play.  It seems incompatible with expecting post season success ending in a Lombardi trophy; rather , how will we keep finding new ways to lose!

 

Teams like the 49ers, eagles , fins are playing an improving brand of football and they look primed to jump ahead as SB contenders. It’s only one game , yet it feels like a recognizable pattern under this PROCESS.   i think its reasonable to ask if MCD’s coaching results have peaked, as his QB with supposedly  generational talent, is regressing over certainly the last two games IF NOT MORE. .  LEADS don’t feel safe any longer. We lost an  in hand , winnable, road, season opening , divisional game to a team tonight who lost a HOF QB WITHIN THE FIRST QUATER, and we even blew a second chance to win with another embarrassing team breakdown !  

 

Maybe they will turn things around ,, but there is a sense of deja vu of prior season ending losses that is hard to feel encouraged by.  If the QB PLAY cant be fixed, MCD may be facing his own seat growing very warm, but DORSEY’S SEAT IS ON FIRE.  YOU CAN’T BENCH A quarter billion dollar investment, but can you be happy  with this type of production? First round draft prospects as healthy scratches; MLB choice not firmly settled despite a whole off season; RT play that has a 6’8” guy being walked back into the pocket several times; lack of a running game compared to a “passing team” like the 49ers !   It just feels like a rinse and repeat of prior disappointments   Hoping to see better next week , but  cant say I EXPECT better , sadlY, after MCD got out-coached once again by a less tenured coach forced to play a QB he had hoped to replace. Pretty soon even KYLE BRAND may be unhooking  his wagon!  

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Based on last season and tonight, I don’t even know if Allen is in the same category as Herbert and Tua. Certainly not burrow or hurts

Stop. Herbert is so over-rated. 275 yards and 1 TD and nothing else to put your team over the top? That's the Herbert way. He's like a more cautious, boring Kirk Cousins

 

Tua though...Tua's nice. A healthy Tua might be AFC top tier, although key word being healthy. He's a knock away from being done

[BananaB]

Teams got Dorsey figured out and he ain’t adjusting. 

[GunnerBill]

No. If Josh cannot play better we can't win a Championship. It isn't just that he hasn't been elite since that game.... he has been a decison making mess at times and a turnover machine. I'm worried. I hated his body language in the playoff game and I hated it last night too. Playing like he is in a daze.

[Pete]

Since the 2nd half of green bay game- Josh has been off.  Its all in his head.  There was a play where Josh was trying to score, and was met by a few defenders, and Josh tried to jump over them- from the 7 yard line.  No chance for TD, no chance for first down, 100% chance Josh gets clobbered.  Not smart

[Pete]

What happened to Josh’s moxie?

 

 

[RunTheBall]

Eh, ask me after Miami where I think Josh’s head is at. 

 

I’ll tell you though, for the first time in years I had no confidence in Josh when he got the ball in OT.

 

Josh was: 1) Inaccurate 2) Made poor decisions 3) Didn’t protect himself 4) Flustered in the pocket resulting in being 5) a turnover machine

 

That’s about as poor a QB performance as you can put on. But, it’s only game 1 of a long season. Josh has earned a chance to right the ship. I think he will.

 

[juno999]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Burrow just passed for 82 yards and led his team to 3 points with Chase, Higgins and Boyd as his 3 WR's and against a lesser secondary.  Allens playoff stats dwarf Burrows too. 

 

So why is he not in the same category?  Because he had a bad game himself or just because Burrows defense carried him to a Super Bowl?

Burrow did hurt his calf and missed most of the preseason.  Maybe people are giving him a pass.  Plus can you recall Burrow do some stupid things that Allen did tonight?  Me neither

[UKBillFan]

2 hours ago, Aimee75 said:

Josh needs to clean up his turnovers, but you are talking about a guy who pretty much single handedly carries us to 13 wins/playoffs every year. i can't be bothered to listen to how "tired" people are. Hell, I sat there and watched Scott Norwoods kick go wide right, and the ensuing 3 SB losses after that, and then later down the road, The Music City Miracle, and then 17 years of nothingness. I could complain about being tired too. I am sure we all could. What are you tired of though? NOT going to the SB? Hey, I want to go back too, but if it was easy, every team would have done it. It takes a lot to get there, a lot of it involves being healthy and lucky breaks. It's not an easy feat, even if teams like The Pats and Chiefs make it seem so. It's not, they are exceptions, not the rule. So basically, we have a team that goes to the playoffs year in and out, was 13 seconds away from quite possibly winning it all, and Bills fans have gotten so spoiled that it's not good enough. Believe me, I still sick over "13 seconds", but it beats a drought. 

 

I'm tired of a team of quality which too often is incapable of fulfilling the basics, whilst making the same mistakes. More often that not the Bills have lost due to their own errors, rather than the quality of the other side.

 

Plus I'm just tired. I've had three hours sleep over the last 24 hours. 😄

[Bill Grundy]

I can't remember a game where Josh, alone, so obviously lost us the game. There have been similarly poor performances, but you could look to the O-Line and WR options to mitigate those somewhat.

 

This was a game that could have been won five times over, and Josh let the side down.

 

The upside, however, is that he will never have a starker realisation of what he must do/not do going forward - even if we've all sort of known it for years. And the best time to have that stark realisation, if you must have it, is on the road in week one. 

 

His interview suggests he totally knows he ***** up. If he doesn't improve after this, then he can't be called elite. But at least he 100% knows what he needs to do from now on. I doubt he'll want this feeling of letting down his teammates (who mostly did okay) ever again. I think he'll come out of this okay. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by LondonBill

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, LondonBill said:

I can't remember a game where Josh, alone, so obviously lost us the game. There have been similarly poor performances, but you could look to the O-Line and WR options to mitigate those somewhat.

 

This was a game that could have been won five times over, and Josh let the side down.

 

The upside, however, is that he will never have a starker realisation of what he must do/not do going forward - even if we've all sort of known it for years. And the best time to have that stark realisation, if you must have it, is on the road in week one. 

 

His interview suggests he totally knows he ***** up. If he doesn't improve after this, then he can't be called elite. But at least he 100% knows what he needs to do from now on. I doubt he'll want this feeling of letting down his teammates (who mostly did okay) ever again. I think he'll come out of this okay. 

 

He's said it before, more than once. Nothing changes. Maybe he needed a game where it purely was all on him, rather than having mitigation. We'll see.

[SydneyBillsFan]

Recipe for a turnaround:

 

- Less golf

- Less podcasts

- More hard work

- Possibly a new OC

[VaMilBill]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Either provide a link for this or your just spreading false rumors.

 

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/nfl/news-he-s-committed-game-josh-allen-s-poor-work-ethic-resulted-tense-situation-stefon-diggs-claims-jason-whitlock

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Burrow just passed for 82 yards and led his team to 3 points with Chase, Higgins and Boyd as his 3 WR's and against a lesser secondary.  Allens playoff stats dwarf Burrows too. 

 

So why is he not in the same category?  Because he had a bad game himself or just because Burrows defense carried him to a Super Bowl?

I mean you can continue to believe josh is better than burrow. But come end of season and playoff time, Joe has been more clutch, more efficient and smoked josh last year…twice. 
 

the game where damar got hurt, it was looking ugly early (just like the playoff game)

[VaMilBill]

46 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Recipe for a turnaround:

 

- Less golf

- Less podcasts

- More hard work

- Possibly a new OC

OC is the big issue. Someone with a good reputation who is creative. Dorsey doesn’t fit that description 

[UKBillFan]

14 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/nfl/news-he-s-committed-game-josh-allen-s-poor-work-ethic-resulted-tense-situation-stefon-diggs-claims-jason-whitlock

I mean you can continue to believe josh is better than burrow. But come end of season and playoff time, Joe has been more clutch, more efficient and smoked josh last year…twice. 
 

the game where damar got hurt, it was looking ugly early (just like the playoff game)

 

Jason Whitlock? He also claimed Diggs wanted out of Buffalo as there wasn't enough strip joints.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Did you want him to lay down?

That's not going to happen.

Nor should it.

What embarrassing homer drivel. Here we have a situation where Josh obviously and objectively made the wrong decision and you are still defending him.

 

Scary.

[Yobogoya!]

The crusher of this stat line is that most of those INT’s are of the completely unnecessary and boneheaded variety. 
 

Josh isn’t just throwing balls that get tipped and picked off or falling for some crazy disguised coverages… he’s been throwing balls that don’t have to be thrown into blatantly obvious double and triple coverage. 
 

I mean what the heck man… 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Yobogoya!

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No. If Josh cannot play better we can't win a Championship. It isn't just that he hasn't been elite since that game.... he has been a decison making mess at times and a turnover machine. I'm worried. I hated his body language in the playoff game and I hated it last night too. Playing like he is in a daze.

I am so disgusted by that red-cheeked, deer-in-the-headlights look where it's painfully obvious that he just doesn't have what it takes mentally. I've seen it enough.

[plenzmd1]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Did you want him to lay down?

That's not going to happen.

Nor should it.

Yes it absolutely should , it’s football 101 that your starting $250M QB should try to avoid taking unnecessary hits. Especially when the play is dead.
 

josh preached all off-season he needed to change , that okay right there is what he was talking about.  

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

On 3rd down?

Late in a tight game against a division rival?

 

**** that.

In first week? In a game you are leading. Hell yea he needs to get down there. 
 

we ain’t talking about trying to extend a play by scrambling behind the line, he was taking risk for zero probability of reward. 
 

It’s stinkin thinkin, plain and simple. 

[Freddie's Dead]

I have often posited that Josh Allen is the best QB in the NFL.  Now he only has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL.  It hurts to say that, but he has serious issues.  GMFB said the same thing.  This is not a transient thing, we have a problem.

[VaMilBill]

I don’t want to give up on josh, but is it time to maybe consider trading him and drafting a QB this off-season?

 

I know this is a knee jerk reaction. But based on last year and last night, it can’t be ruled out IMO

[Chicken Boo]

45 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I don’t want to give up on josh, but is it time to maybe consider trading him and drafting a QB this off-season?

 

I know this is a knee jerk reaction. But based on last year and last night, it can’t be ruled out IMO

 

Way too early for that.  He has another 3 seasons, at least, before Beane would even let that thought cross his mind.  

 

I'd clean house well before I got rid of Allen.  That's for sure. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Cheating has major karma consequences.  We need someone to cheat with his new girlfriend so we can reverse the curse. 
 

but he was awful but did lead them down the field at the end of regulation. I think he gets that hero ball thing in him where the best qbs let other players be the hero. He doesn’t need to do the mash all the buttons play every play. 

[Hebert19]

It's like he stopped seeing the field.  Completely missing linebackers amd safeties in his path.  It's awful. 

[Royale with Cheese]

He's averaging 2 turnovers a game since last year....2.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wasn’t worried about him until he tried to leap 7 yards for the first through 3 Jets defenders. 

Seriously… wth was that? He looked like he was jumping in a pool at club med.

[Big Blitz]

10 of the INTs were against the Packers Vikings and Jets (first game last year and then last night).  
 

This is beyond stupid.  

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He's averaging 2 turnovers a game since last year....2.

The turnovers have to stop.  That’s far and away his biggest problem.  You can live with the other dumb things, but being careless with the ball is a deal breaker no matter how talented he is.  

[Bob Jones]

In addition to being disappointed by JA17's demise, I'm really disturbed by the OP's incorrect use of apostrophes in this thread's title line! It should be TDs and INTs....C'mon man!!! 😉

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Teams that can get a ton of pressure with 4 and stay disciplined enough to plug up his running lanes are always gonna give him trouble..I think he’s just gotta learn to turn into a game manager in those situations. 
 

unfortunately for us we’ve seen it twice in a row now with the bengals and jets.  
this team just doesn’t seem built well to overcome that, feels like we were only focusing on the chiefs then a bunch of other teams came up with really disciplined defenses. The no running game is an absolute killer 
 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm not worried about Burrow's mental state.  If you lose it mentally as a quarterback you're toast.  

I don’t disagree with that, but I’m not sure Allen is there either.  He’s got a lot of talent around him, he’s going to have big games and get right too.  Ive seen all the greats have 4+ turnover games and it didn’t change them forever.  
 

Bengals game was a team wide flop.  Last night was Allen just pressing too much.  I think he was trying too hard to change the narrative and when Allen presses he makes poor decisions.

 

He needs to control his competitiveness where he tries to be Superman all the time and realize it’s better to take what’s there.

 

I do have concerns about Dorsey though, Allen just doesn’t seem to playing as free and instinctively as he was before Dorsey

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Seriously… wth was that? He looked like he was jumping in a pool at club med.

Yeah, I immediately said to my friends here “WTF, he said all off season he was gonna stop that and here he is”.  
 

I love Allens heart and leaving it all on the line mentality…but stuff like that is so unnecessary and he needs to just avoid.  
 

When it happened, I said I think he did it to avoid fumbling as he wasn’t protecting the ball and it was like he went over the top to keep the ball from potentially getting knocked out of his hands.  Which is in itself it’s own problem if why where he doesn’t properly protect the ball when running 

[zow2]

Teams figured him. Keep him in pocket with pressure up the middle as best you can.  Keep a spy. He’s not that good of a pure pocket QB, i swear he doesn’t process as quickly as the great QBs. so much success is throwing on the move and running.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Stop passing so much. Get under center, get Gilliam on the field with both TEs. Stop running shotgun every ***** down. Stop trying to play spread air raid ***** football…we have a 6’5 260lb QB that can run like a truck. Stop using him in the way we are using him. Don’t give the guy 35 throws a game to throw picks. Keep it simple and keep the offense rolling downhill with big physical sets. Change the way we play the game please. This will never work. We are not going to out pass Mahomes. You got to look in a mirror. We need to be way more of the Eagles.