Boogie traded to Giants

[Ethan in Cleveland]

All he got for Basham was a late round pick swap. 

What the actual F?

Wow. 

Lots of Beane apologists on this board are going to have to explain this to me. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

42 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

 

 

Are you telling me the talent wasn't there to win those games? 

that’s exactly what we’re saying.
 

The Bills two best defensive acquisitions to date, draft or free agency, that are still on the team are Poyer and Hyde. both were brought in as free agents before Beane was GM.

 

our defense still relies heavily on them, and now we just have to hope that they can stay healthy as they age.

 

His D-line picks have not planned out at all. 
 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Shemp said:

Get Joe Marino to run the draft.

There’s a lot more that goes into drafting than what we see but sometimes it seems like teams make it too complicated.

[LEBills]

Wow, maybe the worst pick of Beane’s tenure. It was during the COVID draft and lots of teams made lots of mistakes without the normal scouting procedure so there is that. But drafting DE in Rd 1 and 2 was silly.
 

Excited for Kingsley Jonathan bc I think this is a move they made to clear a spot on the roster for him.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

45 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

This one has got to hurt in the Bills’ front office.

 

At least they didn’t fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

they have perhaps already done that with Oliver.

[JerseyBills]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Boogie was buried on the depth chart here since his arrival, so hard to tell if he could grow or develop more once given some playing time.  For us, it certainly makes sense to move him, we had a deep log jam and Shaq has more of a role here.  

 

But I will be interested to see how Boogie does in NY, I do think he still has potential to earn more playing time there than he did here.  Don't know if he can develop into a starter level player or not, but he will at least get more opportunities there than he did here.  Even though Boogie has been buried, he has had moments where he flashes some potential, even this preseason.  Now its on Boogie to see if he can take advantage of more opportunities or not.  

He played a ton with the 1s this pre season,  guess they didn't like his progress and prefer Kingsley 

Edited August 29, 2023 by JerseyBills

[jkeerie]

Beane is "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" on this board.  Boogie was playing well in the preseason...but against second and third string players.  No one liked the Epenesa or Basham picks...because neither of these guys were Von Miller.  However, if you watched college football, both were solid pass rushers and were predicted to go in the top 3 rounds of the draft.  For the Bills, we rotate our lineman, so we need depth on the D line (which BTW at the time was devoid of players).  When we got Floyd in the off season, that meant likely not all of our current pass rushers would make the team...even with Von on PUP.  So we trade Basham...who has been maligned as a wasted pick...but not for anything great.  (If he hasn't been that great, what would you expect?)   Had we just released him, folks would have complained we should have traded him "and gotten something for him."  So Beane did trade him and freed up a bit of cap space in the process.

 

Beane is not perfect...but I'm still happy he is our GM.  This team is better because of him...not worse...even with "failed" draft picks.  

[BigAl2526]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Says who?

I saw it on a site I can't find, but here's another story from the Giants' perspective that says they acquired Basham for "next to nothing."  

 

Giants add Basham

 

If true, that's really disappointing.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Hit a home run on the QB pick and you're a winner and a great GM. 

 

It's not really that simple but it's that simple. 

And if Cleveland or Jets take Allen then Beane would have been out of a job last year. 

He got partially lucky drafting Allen. 

Since then he has pissed away several picks moving up for guys. His success rate is no better than average. If Elam is a bust he really starts to look bad. 

Can't miss on this many high round guys and stay competitive.  Oliver isn't even that good. Better hope Rousseau is a double digit sack guy this year. 

That said Kincaid and Torrence look good so far this year and maybe he found a late round gem in Bedford.

Just really hurts to invest this much into awful DL players. AJE probably doesn't even make the roster of a quarter of the NFL teams. 

[BrettFavre]

Really rough pick at the time with everything that we knew re: age, arm length, all of us on the Creed train when Morse was already starting to get banged up badly. But oh well, we move on.

 

I'd love to see every other team's 2-3 round history in the last 5 years. Bet it isn't so different than ours. And Rousseau is a monster in year 3 at pick 30, which is not exactly easy to do.

 

PS I'm relatively new here, is there a block function to weed out the insane people? Just looking for interesting, non-pathological, non-hysterical discussion.

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Does this mean Miller is coming off the PuP list? Shocked that is not being discussed here.

 

well this didnt live very long ha ha. 

 

 

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

All he got for Basham was a late round pick swap. 

What the actual F?

Wow. 

Lots of Beane apologists on this board are going to have to explain this to me. 

He was a missed pick and a crummy player that we couldn’t get a lot more for. That’s about it. 

[DCofNC]

25 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Beasley? John Brown? Sam Martin?

Ehh, I agree in principle on the FA classes sucking, but I would actually consider Brown and especially Beasley as hits.  They produced while they were here and he parted with them at the right time.  Bringing them back was a desperation move because of the garbage they had at WR in general though.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Says who?

 

Expert Bullshitter

[GunnerBill]

Wow. Just seen it. Any news on compensation?

[Roundybout]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

His 2019 off-season was good… everything in between not so much… I mean the list is long:

 

Star Loulazylaz, Quinton Jefferson, OJ Howard, Trent Murphy, Vontae “im retiring at halftime” Davis, Saffold, Crowder, Vernon Butler, Josh Norman… even the Settle contract is ridiculous given his production.

 

The misses are FAR greater than the hits in FA… and Sam Martin?… you know it’s true when your putting a punter on your list as a positive.😅

I don’t count kicking the tires on former first-round picks like OJ Howard (not on a team) or Vernon Butler (played games for us, now a backup on NYG) as any kind of miss. 
 

Hell, Trent Murphy contributed to the team for a couple seasons. 
 

Crowder got hurt. Who could have predicted that?

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, jkeerie said:

Beane is "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" on this board.  Boogie was playing well in the preseason...but against second and third string players.  No one liked the Epenesa or Basham picks...because neither of these guys were Von Miller.  However, if you watched college football, both were solid pass rushers and were predicted to go in the top 3 rounds of the draft.  For the Bills, we rotate our lineman, so we need depth on the D line (which BTW at the time was devoid of players).  When we got Floyd in the off season, that meant likely not all of our current pass rushers would make the team...even with Von on PUP.  So we trade Basham...who has been maligned as a wasted pick...but not for anything great.  (If he hasn't been that great, what would you expect?)   Had we just released him, folks would have complained we should have traded him "and gotten something for him."  So Beane did trade him and freed up a bit of cap space in the process.

 

Beane is not perfect...but I'm still happy he is our GM.  This team is better because of him...not worse...even with "failed" draft picks.  

 

I'm a big fan of Beane. I have a Big Baller Beane tshirt that is my lucky gameday shirt I wear every week. I love the dude. No GM is ever 100% on picks, or even 75% for that matter.

 

That doesnt mean we cant criticize bad picks that we knew were bad from the moment the card was read. Especially when there seems to be a trend around him missing on those late 1st and 2nd round picks.

 

We need to hit on them in order for this team to win a Super Bowl. That's all.

 

Fingers crossed on Cook, Kincaid, and Torrence who look like they might improve that early draft record.

[hondo in seattle]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

All he got for Basham was a late round pick swap. 

What the actual F?

Wow. 

Lots of Beane apologists on this board are going to have to explain this to me. 

 

I'm a Beane apologist because Beane was instrumental in bringing this team out of decades of mediocrity.  

 

But I can't defend him on Boogie.  It seemed an odd pick at the time: we had just picked Groot and Boogie was a DE who wasn't much a pass rusher.  I was guessing two things at the time.  (1)  Beane was so desperate for a DE that he picked two to double our chances of finding one good one.  (2)  He saw something in Basham that wasn't reflected in the tape or stats.  It seems, unfortunately, that whatever he saw was a mirage.  So Beane took what he could get in a trade.

 

Still, I'll give Beane some credit:  We have enough depth at DE that Boogie is expendable.  When Von gets healthy, we'll have a good group of DEs, thanks to Beane.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Wow. Just seen it. Any news on compensation?

 

Bag of footballs and a soft pretzel.

 

"Swap of late round picks in 2025" is all we know right now.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bag of footballs and a soft pretzel.

 

"Swap of late round picks in 2025" is all we know right now.

 

Does him going to the Giants suggest he was a Joe Schoen pick?

Edited August 29, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, BattlinBill said:

Omg!!! Is that you Doug Whaley? Let it go....

He's not privy to that information 

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Kicking the tires and paying them a good chunk of money to play prominent roles on your team doesn’t count? 
 

WTF? Why? 
 

And exactly my point on Crowder… dudes thrown a lot FA $$$ in the trash along with his early round picks. 

We didn’t pay Howard a lot of money.

 

You want Beane to be omnipotent and predict all injuries?

[Kaenon]

1 hour ago, Blank Stare said:

Terrible second round pick. Knew it then, confirmed now. 

Lol, he was the main guy I wanted at DE in that draft - but I didn't think we had a shot at Rousseau.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Wow. Just seen it. Any news on compensation?

 

I'm going to hope the 2025 picks are a Bills 6th for a Giants 5th.

[brianthomas]

hated the Boogie pick at the start, as well as many other early picks we've made (hard not to really), but i had hoped we would trade for some oline help or player to help us win NOW. A 5th rd pick for 2024/25 does nothing to help us NOW.

Arizona traded Josh Jones to Houston for a 5th rd pick, would've liked to see us add a player like him, especially since our oline depth has taken a hit & its likely the most important area we need to improve anyways, outside of MLB.

It is what it is i guess, GO BILLS

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Kaenon said:

Lol, he was the main guy I wanted at DE in that draft - but I didn't think we had a shot at Rousseau.

 

I didn't even have a 2nd on Boogie. He went a full round before I had him graded. He did get some first round buzz in some quarters... I just never saw how he won at the NFL level. He only won in college by being a full grown 24 year old man mauling teenage boys. Limited speed. No bend. Bad hand usage. Poor technique. No rush moves. 

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't even have a 2nd on Boogie. He went a full round before I had him graded. He did get some first round buzz in some quarters... I just never saw how he won at the NFL level. He only won in college by being a full grown 24 year old man mauling teenage boys. Limited speed. No bend. Bad hand usage. Poor technique. No rush moves. 

 

The pick was bad and has been driven into the ground in this thread.

Beane moved on and got what he got.  

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Boogie was a bad pick at the time. Head scratcher from Beane. 

His 2nd and 3rd round picks have been bad. Eventually the good will from the JA pick has got to wear off. Right?

[teef]

i hated boogie as a draft pick first!!!!!

[Bangarang]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

His 2nd and 3rd round picks have been bad. Eventually the good will from the JA pick has got to wear off. Right?

I don’t see why it would as long as we keep winning double digit games and contend for a SB.

[schoolhouserock]

17 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

they have perhaps already done that with Oliver.

Perhaps. That Oliver contract, however, still has a good chance to age nicely.

[HerdMentality]

Go to 11:30

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ipp-RaZ_c

 

Couldn't believe Carlos would still be there!! 

Edited August 29, 2023 by HerdMentality

[MPT]

This feels like a favor to Schoen. Stashing him on the practice squad would have been more valuable than a late round pick two years from now.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t see why it would as long as we keep winning double digit games and contend for a SB.

 

Because the difference between contending for a Super Bowl and actually winning a Super Bowl is likely those 1st/2nd round misses.

 

Still love the dude, dont want to fire him. Still happy to have the Bills at this level of perennial contender. But gotta get better finding the top talent.

[NewEra]

Sorry I’m being lazy, did they announce what we got in return?

[Coldfronts]

Just now, NewEra said:

Sorry I’m being lazy, did they announce what we got in return?

Nothing a late round swap. The bills got shafted

[machine gun kelly]

It was a forgone conclusion we would keep Shaq as a body while Von is on PUP, then he’s either PS or gone.  We had one to trade.  It was either Boogie or Epenesa.

 

We weren’t going to keep both as we most likely keep 5 interior.

 

So Beane has been working the angles for what he can get back for either and which one is he is easier to trade.  I’m not surprised by the trade, but disappointed Beane couldn’t have gotten something higher or a player.  It didn’t happen.

 

Its not a great situation, but Basham did flash at times, had 4.5 sacks last year, and was ok for a 2nd.

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It will if the regression continues… 

 

I will say that Cook, Kincaid and Torrence "could" start to trend this discussion in a better direction. 

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

We should be like the Chiefs and draft a worthless running back in the first round. Or the Raiders and take Clelen Ferrell in the top-10. 

I don’t think we should be knocking the chiefs draft record. The chiefs are always plugging young players into the lineup and getting contributions.

 

Their 2022 draft class just won them a super bowl. Veach hit on almost every pick and got contributions from many 2022 drafted players right away.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/chiefs-super-bowl-success-started-with-historic-2022-draft-class

 

I like Brandon Beane, but I’d swap him for Veach and the chiefs scouting staff in a heart beat.

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, MPT said:

This feels like a favor to Schoen. Stashing him on the practice squad would have been more valuable than a late round pick two years from now.

How would we have done that if we'd cut him to put him on the practice squad they'd have claimed him off of waivers. The only way this is a favor is that they didn't have to worry about someone ahead of them making a claim but they still had to give us a pick.