Elam now CB4 and playing kickoff coverage in the preseason

[Special K]

I wish the Bills could have done this in that draft instead of drafting Elam:

 

 

[BBFL]

I’m seeing it all over the place about trading him but it makes zero sense. 
 

He is a capable boundary corner who has played decent when asked to. That position is something we may have questions still unresolved come mid season and afterward. It’s Tre and who? Dane Jackson. Meh; an exclusive zone DB and McD’s guy. Benford? Small sample size but decent. 
Even with all that, the play after Tre’s return was very sub par for what the salary was/is. That question becomes even bigger if the play carries over and becomes the standard for him. 
 

Might be another thing that they are relying on less purely designated ST’ers and want back up players to fill that void so the roster is kept with more players they believe have value to the team as a whole and not just for ST coverage. 🤷‍♂️

Edited August 27, 2023 by BBFL

[Dr.Sack]

McDermott is to Elam, what Shanahan was to Lance. 
 

Coaches who overruled their GMs and were unwilling to develop a 1st rounder. Also the GMs drafted based on raw talent and ability, whereas the coaches respective philosophical offensive/defensive system means scheme fit, not talent is paramount. 
 

Also two coaches who have been deep in the playoffs but have never won a championship. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Dr.Sack

[gobills404]

5 hours ago, Luka said:

 

He was 2nd on the team in interceptions with limited snaps. McDermott is going lunch pail over talent. Very Jauron of him.

And he allowed a lower passer rating than Dane and Benford. And he had a much lower missed tackle rate than them. And he was arguably our best defender in the playoffs. But hey at least Dane and Benford are better at playing with huge cushions!!

Edited August 27, 2023 by gobills404

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, Process said:

I don't think a potentially starting CB would be playing kickoff coverage in the second half of the third preseason game. But hey what do I know. 

I didn’t say he’s starting, but doesn’t mean he’s 4th string

[BillsMontreal]

4 hours ago, gobills404 said:

And he allowed a lower passer rating than Dane and Benford. And he had a much lower missed tackle rate than them. And he was arguably our best defender in the playoffs. But hey at least Dane and Benford are better at playing with huge cushions!!

Agree and i'm confused. There's something we dont know i guess.

 

I feel like Bendford and Jackson are the safe options and they choose that. 

 

Elam isnt built for our bend but dont break defense. He's not built for a soft defense. I understant that.

But, i really think they should let him on the field, let him make mistakes, coach him, talk to him. He isnt the safe option but he can make play.

He's the most physical CB we have by far and AFC east will run in our face, we all know that.

 

More he was on the field last year, better he played. 

 

I lost faith in our soft defense. We're too fast for those Justin Field kind of QB but the best seems to score at will against us.

Letting a CB like Elam on the bench with all the attributes he has is for me an exemple of a safe and soft option.

 

But, hey, i'm just a fan.  Like i said, there's something we dont know i guess...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 hours ago, Mr. Wonderful said:

You can never having enough cornerbacks.

Sincerely, 

Dick Jauron

Guess you didn't watch the team last year 

[MikePJ76]

I can't imagine they are cutting elam.  It really doesn't make sense to do that.  

[RichRiderBills]

I think we should still be patient w Elam. I still say this is more a product of how good the whole CB group has played.

 

I warned about many of the UF players they come from system that coddles them , not pushes them.  The current defensive climate of UF is some of the worst I've seen of that. 

 

They are often slow learners in the NFL game or guys that get totally frustrated when the going gets tough. But some adjust and rise to the challenge. It may not happen overnight. Kid is talented and seems to have a good attitude. 

 

Need 4-5 good corners so I'm not trading anyone. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[NoSaint]

You need to be 4 deep and when put into action he’s played better than cb4

 

to have that resource as a cost controlled asset for 3 more years is valuable. And I don’t think he plummets in output. 

8 hours ago, BBFL said:

I’m seeing it all over the place about trading him but it makes zero sense. 
 

He is a capable boundary corner who has played decent when asked to. That position is something we may have questions still unresolved come mid season and afterward. It’s Tre and who? Dane Jackson. Meh; an exclusive zone DB and McD’s guy. Benford? Small sample size but decent. 
Even with all that, the play after Tre’s return was very sub par for what the salary was/is. That question becomes even bigger if the play carries over and becomes the standard for him. 
 

Might be another thing that they are relying on less purely designated ST’ers and want back up players to fill that void so the roster is kept with more players they believe have value to the team as a whole and not just for ST coverage. 🤷‍♂️

Even if the secondary is healthy he will play and with even average injuries he will see a ton of reps 

[Dopey]

17 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why would you trade him? His value has to be what, a max of a 4th round pick? You'd be killing $11M of cap space for a 4th or 5th round pick? He's worth more than that as a 4th DB.

Typical overreaction by some here. We’re going to need every one of our dbs to contribute this year. Losing him and having an injury pop up to another cb will definitely hurt us. 

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

If someone calls Beane and asks about Elam this should be the response 

 

 

We have CB depth.  Keep it.  I still like his pedigree and skill set - can’t let that Benford is awesome sway us. 
 

I agree about his skills and pedigree but I said this last year, what good is having 2 starting quality CBs on the bench. I get the point about depth but I'd take a 3rd if possible. We still have Dane.   That'd give us 3 3rd rounders next year. 

 

They developed Levi into a starter as an UDFA and now Benford and Dane as day 3 picks. Make Austin your 4th CB and if needed,  draft another. His skillset just doesn't seem to fit our scheme

[FireChans]

9 hours ago, gobills404 said:

And he allowed a lower passer rating than Dane and Benford. And he had a much lower missed tackle rate than them. And he was arguably our best defender in the playoffs. But hey at least Dane and Benford are better at playing with huge cushions!!

What? Elam allowed a 96.3 passer rating. Dane and Benford were in the low 80s. 
 

Allowing a higher passer rating isn’t better lmao

[buffaloboyinATL]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I didn’t say he’s starting, but doesn’t mean he’s 4th string

Exactly. I think we will see a lot more rotation in the secondary this season. Not quite as much as the DL, but definitely more than usual.  

[gobills404]

36 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What? Elam allowed a 96.3 passer rating. Dane and Benford were in the low 80s. 
 

Allowing a higher passer rating isn’t better lmao

The podcast I heard it on said they included the playoffs. IIRC Elam’s passer rating allowed drops down to ~80. Dane was ~85 including playoffs and Benford was ~90 during the regular season since he missed the playoffs.

Edited August 27, 2023 by gobills404

[FireChans]

29 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

The podcast I heard it on said they included the playoffs. IIRC Elam’s passer rating allowed drops down to ~80. Dane was ~85 including playoffs and Benford was ~90 during the regular season since he missed the playoffs.

Idk their source because they are wrong about almost all of what you said. Or you’re misremembering

[gobills404]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Idk their source because they are wrong about almost all of what you said. Or you’re misremembering

Idk your source either cause profootballreference, who has that 96.3 for Elam you brought up, also backs up what I said about the missed tackles.

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Idk your source either cause profootballreference, who has that 96.3 for Elam you brought up, also backs up what I said about the missed tackles.

Yeah I use PFR. Which contradicts that Benford stat of 90 in the regular season too, he was lower than that. I think your podcasters are wrong here.

[Billl]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

It is true.  If you have a team that’s supposedly that good, anywhere you add a better player, makes the team better.  Passing on Creed Humphrey because you “need” pass rush, makes the team weaker. Drafting a project DB because you need a CB2, when you also have holes all over the OL etc, makes the team weaker.   They took guys looking at the future, just the opposite of what you are trying to say, they had to develop all these players at positions of need, instead of letting the draft come to them. 
 

There isn’t going to be an “aggressive rebuild”, there’s no money for it.  The consistent whiffs on finding any difference makers is killing this team.  Yes, they are ok, but they can’t get over the hump because Beane has drafted exactly zero difference makers outside of Allen. 

They didn’t fail because they went after positions of need.  The failure was picking bad players.  They needed interior line help in 2021, and they had already taken Rousseau in the first round when they took Basham.  Taking Creed would have been drafting for need, but they passed on him for another DE.  

 

The aggressive rebuild I’m referring to is going to be them moving pieces to build assets for the future.  That’s when they’ll need to focus on BPA.  2024 is likely to be a reset season.

[T master]

19 hours ago, Process said:

What's your play here?

 

Hang onto him and hope he develops?

 

Trade him while he still has some value? If he's not playing, his value will only go down the further we get from when he was drafted. 

 

I would say trade him, but we don't have a lot of depth. Who is CB4 then, Austin? If a bad team offered a 3rd, I'd probably take it. 

 

I didn't follow him in college, but him not being a fit for our defense is not a surprise, right? We knew that already going into the draft? That's the frustrating part. 

 

As far as athletic ability he is the best of all the candidates so to just get rid of him this early in his career would be kind of foolish especially seeing as last year against the dolphins he ran with Tyreek Hill and kept him in check for most of the game . 

 

Plus this being pre season they may just be giving some reps to other players to see them before final cut downs . 

 

I believe he will be a asset this year with a little bench/ST's motivation he could grab the CB2 position by the end of the season ! 

[Success]

If nothing else - we have fantastic depth at the CB position.  Probably our deepest unit..

 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Process said:

What's your play here?

 

Hang onto him and hope he develops?

 

Trade him while he still has some value? If he's not playing, his value will only go down the further we get from when he was drafted. 

 

I would say trade him, but we don't have a lot of depth. Who is CB4 then, Austin? If a bad team offered a 3rd, I'd probably take it. 

 

I didn't follow him in college, but him not being a fit for our defense is not a surprise, right? We knew that already going into the draft? That's the frustrating part. 

 

 

 

It's the beginning of his SECOND year. Not his third, his second. Not the end. The beginning.

 

The play almost certainly is to develop him. 

 

It would be better if he'd developed quickly. But he is a bit slow. 

 

And no we didn't know for sure in the draft how long he'd take. But we did draft a guy with virtually no experience in our system, so yeah, it was always more likely he'd take more time. 

 

Doesn't mean he won't become terrific. He might. Or might not. 

 

But he might.

[Toyo321]

17 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Not sure why he was drafted by us? He’s a man corner and we run a zone scheme. 

Thank is why I criticize Beane, let's get a square peg and try and plug it in a round hole!

His drafting practices and scouts are terrible and miss the mark most of the time in every draft.

No draft pick is 100% guaranteed they are going to be a home run pick.  But.....

We seldom get any drafted players that turn into NFL all pro's with their picks.  and we have had 7 years of their drafting history as a sample size.

We only got Tre, Josh and Edmunds, Milano, & Bass,  IMO that are All Pro's.  And now Edmunds is gone.

Dawkins, Knox, Oliver and multiple and DL & DB players are good but they are not elite.

Everyone else they have drafted that we still have on this team is serviceable for us as a team.

We have been both lucky and unlucky with some of these other picks being able to play for this team and actually produce positive

results on the field. 

 

But their drafting  acumen has been questionable at best. 

 

7 Years and counting and no AFCCG wins resulting in our first SB appearance since 1993,  speaks to Beane & McD's drafting ability & their failure to date getting us to that next level.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Toyo321

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

It is true.  If you have a team that’s supposedly that good, anywhere you add a better player, makes the team better.  Passing on Creed Humphrey because you “need” pass rush, makes the team weaker. Drafting a project DB because you need a CB2, when you also have holes all over the OL etc, makes the team weaker.   They took guys looking at the future, just the opposite of what you are trying to say, they had to develop all these players at positions of need, instead of letting the draft come to them. 
 

There isn’t going to be an “aggressive rebuild”, there’s no money for it.  The consistent whiffs on finding any difference makers is killing this team.  Yes, they are ok, but they can’t get over the hump because Beane has drafted exactly zero difference makers outside of Allen. 

 

 

You know, if this post were written about a team that had gone 5-12 or maybe 6-11 last year it would make sense.

 

But it was not, and so it does not make sense. Not at all.

 

You know what's "killing this team"? Nothing.

 

"They are OK," you say? That's absolute fruit cake nuts. They're excellent. Haven't gotten over the hump yet, but they have a chance every year and that absolutely includes this year. They are far far better than "OK".

 

This team is not dying. They're terrific, one of the best in the league. This team has not consistently whiffed in the draft, it simply has not. They've drafted well. Not spectacularly, but well. Made some mistakes. Gotten some great values. All across the 

 

When you look at the major difference makers in the draft, most of them come among the blue chippers, first ten to fifteen guys or so. We aren't there any more. 

 

Get used to it!!!

 

It's a good thing.

[hondo in seattle]

21 minutes ago, Success said:

If nothing else - we have fantastic depth at the CB position.  Probably our deepest unit..

 

 

Don't care...  It used to be that 3 of our 4/5 starting DBs were studs:  Hyde, Poyer, and White.  The other CB and nickelback were okay.

 

Maybe it's the same this year.  But Hyde and Poyer have both had injuries and are getting up there in years.  White hasn't seemed right since his ACL, though maybe he just needed more time to mend.  In any case, I was hoping Elam would become a star to compensate for whatever degradation we experienced in the older veteran stars.  

 

My fingers are crossed that Hyde, Poyer, and White all return to peak form.  If so, our secondary will be great.  And I'm looking forward to seeing how Rapp will contribute.  It's nice, of course, to have good backups but I'd rather have great starters.  

[balln]

14 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

 

 

7 Years and counting and no AFCCG or SB appearances,  speaks to Beane & McD's drafting ability & their failure to date of getting us to that next level.

 

with a franchise qb / mvp type of player

 

its personal and coaching why theyve been to 1 and only 1 AFCCG in which they got dog walked

[BananaB]

McD has made poor decisions based off practice instead of Sundays numerous times. At the end of last year Elam might have been our best DB so trading him makes no sense.

Edited August 27, 2023 by BananaB

[Utah John]

To me, the happy news is that Benford as developed into such a good player, not that Elam hasn't.  Elam is not a complete bust, just a guy who's not developing as much as you'd expect from a 1st round pick.  He'd probably be playing if Benford hadn't refused to go quietly into the night.

[Royale with Cheese]

I’m wondering if he’s going to be inactive a lot.  Siran Neal has position flexibility and plays Special Teams….he might be our 4th corner.

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Tre getting back to being Tre is right behind MLB on my list of defensive concerns. I really haven’t heard anything about his recovery this season. Maybe I missed it, but that seems kind of odd. 

Its been mostly about the Receivers , seems to me.

His name come up, but just as to who was covering

" He had perfect coverage" , but the catch was made etc LOL
As to his recovery ? I imagine they wont give anything away. So I accept he is good to go 👍

18 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

How do we know McD won't run more man? They've indicated they plan to be more aggressive, assuming that includes blitzing.

 

Outside of that, along our playoff run we'll need a man guy for Chase/Tyreek/Kelce.

 

You'd rather have a 4th rder than a guy that can help cover the biggest thorns in our side? 

 

So unbelievably short sighted

Bills absolutely need to run more press coverage and with quick hit blitz.

 Stunts with the Zone

[newcam2012]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

It's the beginning of his SECOND year. Not his third, his second. Not the end. The beginning.

 

The play almost certainly is to develop him. 

 

It would be better if he'd developed quickly. But he is a bit slow. 

 

And no we didn't know for sure in the draft how long he'd take. But we did draft a guy with virtually no experience in our system, so yeah, it was always more likely he'd take more time. 

 

Doesn't mean he won't become terrific. He might. Or might not. 

 

But he might.

Is that really the mindset a team has when they draft a player in the first round at pick number 23? To boot, the Bills moved up to get him. You want immediate impact players and he's been anything but that. 

 

Yes, he's young and has time to improve. No one knows how good or bad he will be. 

 

What's clear is he's been a huge disappointment. Can't really dispute that. 

 

Benford was a great pick and that mitigates the Elam situation. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by newcam2012

[3rdand12]

Bills Coaching mindset is weird

[CountDorkula]

22 hours ago, Success said:

If nothing else - we have fantastic depth at the CB position.  Probably our deepest unit..

 

I wouldn’t say having players who aren’t very good at their job is “fantastic depth” 

[BuffaloRebound]

22 hours ago, BananaB said:

McD has made poor decisions based off practice instead of Sundays numerous times. At the end of last year Elam might have been our best DB so trading him makes no sense.

I don’t necessarily blame him for that.  Focusing on process and demanding professionalism has served him and the organization well.  But you gotta be able to coach the talented guys up too and to me that’s what’s holding us back from taking next step.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:03 PM, Virgil said:

I was going to wait until the game was over to make this exact post. 
 

I really think the Bills should take trade offers for him.  It’s not that he isn’t good. He just doesn’t fit our system.  
 

A team like the Ravens would love to have him and I’m sure there are other DB needy teams. 
 

Ideally, there’s a team out there with good OT or MLB depth that needs a DB, but this isn’t Madden. 
 

For me, if you can get a 2nd rounder, go for it 

Do you think some team would offer a 2nd.  I'm thinking a 4th....

13 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Bills Coaching mindset is weird

We've been SB contenders for 3-4 years.  Weird is good.

[ndirish1978]

Yeah, let's buy high and sell low, that's a winning recipe. Elam is not a bad player and will continue to develop, you don't trade him at his lowest value. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 8/27/2023 at 12:17 PM, balln said:

with a franchise qb / mvp type of player

 

its personal and coaching why theyve been to 1 and only 1 AFCCG in which they got dog walked

 

In that 7 years the AFC was represented by KC 3x and NE 3x.  The Bengals did make it 2 years ago - but i don't think their roster in 2021-2022 was the reason, just peaked at the right time on defense, got takeaways and took care of the ball.  

 

The Chiefs have one of the best offensive minds in football history, and one of the best QBs in football history.  Their GM and scouting is also top notch.  It's going to be tough to get in.  Before that you had Belichick and Brady finishing up their run as the greatest dynasty in NFL history.  It's a tough ask to have multiple super bowl appearances in this window.  Need some bounces, some help etc. 

 

Example: Mike Tomlin is 1-1 in the super bowl, he never beat Brady or Manning on his way to a super bowl.  It's going to be tough to beat KC and Cincy in the same playoffs, maybe one or both gets bounced.   

[HeHateMe]

I didn't think Elam was bad last year?  IDK I felt he held his own when he was on the field..

 

No idea what's gone on this offseason with him though.

[MasterStrategist]

23 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I’m wondering if he’s going to be inactive a lot.  Siran Neal has position flexibility and plays Special Teams….he might be our 4th corner.

Agree, which to me is a potential issue.

 

Ingram would be a "fine" #4 outside corner, who can conveniently slide into the slot as well.

 

I'd much rather move Dane, who I think is a depth level player/fringe starter.  Benford likely has him beat out, and Elam has the most upside.

 

Not ready to move on from Elam, but I'd be fine with a Dane trade that nets us a 5th or 6th (which we use to secure a backup RT).

 

If I'm Beane, I'm trading pieces now that we have extreme depth/not much fall off at - who teams likely target on waivers.  DE, IOL, Secondary are 3 spots where I see one of our cuts likely getting scooped up.  Either IOL or secondary is where I expect Beane to keep an "extra" roster spot vs past years.  Either Anderson or Cam.

 

2 trades that net us picks in the 5th-7th range, that we basically flip for a backup RT and backup QB...thats most ideal to me right now; even if we can get 1 improved that'd help

[Success]

11 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

I wouldn’t say having players who aren’t very good at their job is “fantastic depth” 

 

Who isn't good at their job?