Training Camp - 8/10 - 9:45am - Final day at Fisher (No Pads)

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

At least one site disagrees with your thoughts on pressure.  Pro football reference has him as 5th lowest for Pressure % and 6th for pocket time.  The line def got worse as the season went along and wasnt what i had expected but I think it was better than 2021.  I know you dont say it here (but you sorta imply it), but folks talking like we are the worst line in the league while being the number 2 scoring offense.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing_advanced.htm

The line also looks better when Josh gets the ball out of his hand fast, like in the first game against the Rams. We know he tends to hold onto it which makes the unit look worse. There were times last year where he had seemingly all day to throw, but with that being said, a performance like Saffold had against the Bengals was inexcusable. They have to at least be able to impede their assignment for 2.5 seconds. 

[BigAl2526]

45 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

I'm surprised we haven't seen Elam practicing with boxing gloves on this training camp.  

I wondered why it was Dorsey getting after Elam about it rather than Butler, his position coach.

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just left camp.

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

I was also able to see first hand why so many people are concerned about the backup QB position. If Allen ever goes down, we are ****ed. And i'm not talking about a full season - even if we need them for only a game or two - bad news.

Defensive lineman have a big advantage without pads.  Don’t take away anything too much about pressure without pads on.  With pads, yes.

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

So if Allen is playing in a preseason game, but not the Colts game, then he's playing in game 2, since game 3 is probably the back of the roster.

We are going up to Buffalo for a wedding later this month and last week my wife went ahead and bought tix for the Pitts pre-season game on the way up.  When she saw comment about Allen playing in a preseason game today she excitedly said if Allen is playing one game that will probably be it.

[stevewin]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

He even catches batted balls.

 

 

 

Another example of the D throwing different things like they have all camp - here rushing 3 and dropping Settle into coverage

[ColoradoBills]

44 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just left camp.

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

I was also able to see first hand why so many people are concerned about the backup QB position. If Allen ever goes down, we are ****ed. And i'm not talking about a full season - even if we need them for only a game or two - bad news.

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

45 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just left camp.

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

I was also able to see first hand why so many people are concerned about the backup QB position. If Allen ever goes down, we are ****ed. And i'm not talking about a full season - even if we need them for only a game or two - bad news.

 

See anything good? lol

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I suspect the offensive line woes will rear its ugly head at some point during the season… specifically if Torrence can’t get on the field and Browns struggles continue. 

I agree Scott. The oline looks to be improved but still not solidified, excellent, or elite. It's probably the biggest failure of the Beane regime. 

 

I'm hopeful it's good enough to make a deeper run. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by newcam2012

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just left camp.

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

I was also able to see first hand why so many people are concerned about the backup QB position. If Allen ever goes down, we are ****ed. And i'm not talking about a full season - even if we need them for only a game or two - bad news.

 

Well regarding the Oline, I think some ppl (a general observation, not directed at you or anyone specific) expectations kinda got a bit too high when the couple new guys signed. 

 

Really though when looking at the couple of new signings that addressed the Oline it's difficult to honestly think it will be a whole lot of improvement.

 

 

[Westside]

3 hours ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

My daughter works there!  She's seen Deonte Harty, Ike Boettger, Jordan Phillips and others.

We live close by and go all the time! Love that Place!

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Well regarding the Oline, I think some ppl (a general observation, not directed at you or anyone specific) expectations kinda got a bit too high when the couple new guys signed. 

 

Really though when looking at the couple of new signings that addressed the Oline it's difficult to honestly think it will be a whole lot of improvement.

 

 

There are others factors too that give hope.  Beyond adding McGovern and Torrence, Edwards and Shell seem to be quality depth signings.  Ike another year removed from injury and hopefully a healthy ascending Brown.

 

But most importantly, IMO, is another year in Kromer's system.  I'm expecting a good unit.

[teef]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Just left camp.

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

I was also able to see first hand why so many people are concerned about the backup QB position. If Allen ever goes down, we are ****ed. And i'm not talking about a full season - even if we need them for only a game or two - bad news.

did you take the shuttle or park across the street?

3 hours ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

My daughter works there!  She's seen Deonte Harty, Ike Boettger, Jordan Phillips and others.

that's great.  have her hook my up with some eggnog.  i swear they put drugs in it.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

There are others factors too that give hope.  Beyond adding McGovern and Torrence, Edwards and Shell seem to be quality depth signings.  Ike another year removed from injury and hopefully a healthy ascending Brown.

 

But most importantly, IMO, is another year in Kromer's system.  I'm expecting a good unit.

 

This is why they say "wait until the pads come on" to get a true evaluation.  I remember Aaron Maybin without pads was in the backfield constantly and he sucked.

 

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023/7/29/23812583/bears-training-camp-notes-edge-rushers-matt-eberflus-hard-to-get-read-greg-stroman-jatyre-carter-nfl

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/column-chicago-bears-practice-full-220400155.html#:~:text=“Pads are everything because you,the run game%2C too.”

 

“Pads are everything because you know it’s hard to — talking about offensive linemen — it’s really hard to block a defensive lineman with no pads,” coach Matt Eberflus said. “It just is. And it’s hard to block them in the run game, too.”

 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Yeah I suppose that would be the plan.  
 

Let’s hope Torrance can beat out Bates so we don’t have to possibly live through this scenario

I'm not a Torrance fan. He makes me think of Derrick Dockery. 

34 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Barkely came in and had a career against the Jets awhile back, no reason to think it can't happen again. That said look at the teams with top QBs (to me that's KC, us, Cincy and Philly) and tell me which of them have  a QB you can count on to win you a game or more? 

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Barkely came in and had a career against the Jets awhile back, no reason to think it can't happen again. That said look at the teams with top QBs (to me that's KC, us, Cincy and Philly) and tell me which of them have  a QB you can count on to win you a game or more? 

 

While you want to have depth everywhere, every time a backup comes in a game it's a roll of the dice.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

At this point I'm going to respectfully ask that if you wish to continue the conversation please move it to DMs so we don't clog up the daily thread with this type back and forth.

 

Dude, No.  You "clog up the thread" in public about how  "Unfortunately, the original tweet [by Cybulski] really lacks any substantial context" (multiple responses by you about one single tweet you object to), now I'm only supposed to address you in DM so I don't "clog up the daily thread" after one response?

 

Nuts to that.  Again, check yourself.

 

The guy has been a public servant during training camp.  Dis on him in public, get taken up in public.

 

That Is All.

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

My pushback to this would be the following:

 

Saffold was one of the worst starting OL in the NFL last year.  He was that bad. 
 

Year 2 of Kromer’s system is typically when it clicks, according to guys that have played for him. 
 

Spencer Brown seems to be having a good camp.  If that translates, we’re looking at LG and RT going from absolute disaster play to, at least, average play … which would be a noticeable jump in OL productivity. 

Where are you getting this from, genuinely? Ive seen nothing but the opposite, I dont mean mostly, I mean 100% negative about his TC play (his play on field, not inj history)

I would like to see it as im praying like a mf'er for it

2 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Hey the refs let Sauce get away with it all the time. So there's that. 

We NEED a guy willing to test the limits. Test it out in season, because Lord knows we need it in playoffs, where weve been the only team playing by the rules!

[Doc]

3 hours ago, BeastMode54 said:

If Bates is the better RG, that makes the whole line better. But I hate the fact that Torrence hasn't stepped in and won the job. I would have hoped that as such a high pick he'd come in and play well right away. if Torrence was the starting RG that makes the line that much better and deeper

 

Recall that Wyatt Teller as a rookie couldn't even beat out Vlad Ducasse until midway through the season.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Doc

[HappyDays]

 

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm not a Torrance fan. He makes me think of Derrick Dockery. 

Barkely came in and had a career against the Jets awhile back, no reason to think it can't happen again. That said look at the teams with top QBs (to me that's KC, us, Cincy and Philly) and tell me which of them have  a QB you can count on to win you a game or more? 

Is this a joke?  I can’t tell.  If not, why does he remind you of Dockery?

[Einstein]

41 minutes ago, teef said:

did you take the shuttle or park across the street?

 

Ubered.

 

1 hour ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

 

See anything good? lol

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

[finn]

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

There's a reason why Allen was the highest rated passer when he was pressured.  Because he was always pressured.

Yet the overwhelming consensus is that Mahomes, playing behind the best OL in the league, is better than Allen, a guy who is running for his life on every other snap. And don't talk to me about Mahomes' two Super Bowls wins. With the KC line, Allen would have at least three. And with Saffold and Brown playing in front of him, Mahomes would have none, like Allen. 

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, muppy said:

no just slapping hands you cynic you 🙂

@Airsevenpuking on he being such a nice guy? Gotcha. geesh

None of us would expect any less. Its his thing and he seems to get off on it.

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

That’s because of Allen if you want to see a horror show replay the Bengals game. They practically lived in the Bills backfield. 

Agree that they performed worse as the season went on, but those metrics are agnostic to Allen's escapability.  He was pressured as a low percent per drop back.  Additionally to the point about performing worse as the season went, the passing attack became more predictable as a vertical passing attack post injury.  Bengals game was super bad, but overall pro football reference says he got pressured at lower rate than most QBs (#5)  

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

The line also looks better when Josh gets the ball out of his hand fast, like in the first game against the Rams. We know he tends to hold onto it which makes the unit look worse. There were times last year where he had seemingly all day to throw, but with that being said, a performance like Saffold had against the Bengals was inexcusable. They have to at least be able to impede their assignment for 2.5 seconds. 

Agree Bengals was inexcusable and just generally was our worst game of the year.  However, if your expectation is that Allen gets 2.5 seconds on average to throw the ball. Then your expectation was met.  Many other QBs had less time in the pocket (maybe cause they threw it faster).  I think the pressure % and pkt time tell a very different narrative than whats being said about the OL last year (again Saffold, didnt meet the expectation).  

[scuba guy]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

If that happens, Bates slides to C and CyBo comes in. 

He said if Bates goes down there is no backup center 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

15 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

 

Absolute troll I love it

[buffaloboyinATL]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

Ugh. You were so close to saying something positive, without a negative spin...

[The Wiz]

Might be a 1 horse race now for MLB.

 

 

 

[gordong]

23 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ubered.

 

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

Gabe is going to be fine this year.   I expect to see a big year from him esp based off his training camp performance 

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Might be a 1 horse race now for MLB.

 

 

 

Damn...   was looking forward to see him in the middle this weekend. sounds like he is going to be a better then avg cover LB. (and that based off the reports from training camp he seemed to alway have tight coverage on someone)

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by gordong

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

There are others factors too that give hope.  Beyond adding McGovern and Torrence, Edwards and Shell seem to be quality depth signings.  Ike another year removed from injury and hopefully a healthy ascending Brown.

 

But most importantly, IMO, is another year in Kromer's system.  I'm expecting a good unit.

 

I fully understand when that's the way it's viewed and expectations are reasonable. What I mean is there were some that posted how confident the Oline definitely will be much improved.

 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm not a Torrance fan. He makes me think of Derrick Dockery.

 

I devoutly hope you are mistaken

 

17 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Barkely came in and had a career against the Jets awhile back, no reason to think it can't happen again. That said look at the teams with top QBs (to me that's KC, us, Cincy and Philly) and tell me which of them have  a QB you can count on to win you a game or more? 

 

Barkley's Big Outing against the Jets was 6 seasons ago - and is, coincidentally, the last time he started a game.  The reason to think it can't happen again is that he had an iffy arm to start with, and is nowalmost 33 instead of 28.

As for your question - Oh My!  I was This many days old when I learned that not only is Blaine Gabbert still in the league, he's now the backup in Kansas City.  Though they have 4 QB on the roster, so I guess they're having a contest over there. 

 

So do the Bengals, for that matter, with Trevor Siemian as the apparent backup?  It's been 6 years since he went 5-5 in Denver, and he's started 6 games (all L) since then.

 

I'm beginning to think You Have a Point here, but I'll go with Marcus Mariota on the Eagles.  He was 5-8 on a bad Falcons team last season and threw for 170 ypg with 15 TD and 9 INT, so I'm going to give him reasonable odds of winning a game or more for the Iggles, on the grounds that on a 7-10 team he managed 5.

 

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Might be a 1 horse race now for MLB.

 

 

 

 

Whatever one thinks of the Bills choice to draft him in the 3rd last season, you hate to hear it.

Hope it's not serious.

[BuffaloBillyG]

26 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude, No.  You "clog up the thread" in public about how  "Unfortunately, the original tweet [by Cybulski] really lacks any substantial context" (multiple responses by you about one single tweet you object to), now I'm only supposed to address you in DM so I don't "clog up the daily thread" after one response?

 

Nuts to that.  Again, check yourself.

 

The guy has been a public servant during training camp.  Dis on him in public, get taken up in public.

 

That Is All.

Ok then. 

 

The simple fact that this tweet in question was interpreted differently by you and I as well as a third different take from another poster and oh hey, there even was someone else with questions about the clarity on that Tweet (see below) really confirm my opinion that perhaps greater context was needed. 

 

 

I made one statement about the tweet and then responded to people that said something in response to me. I'm sorry, is that something odd to do on a message board? I actually even in one of them (that you quoted yourself) acknowledged that someone else's interpretation was very plausible as well. I'm always open to changing my outlook when further perspective is offered. 

 

I've also made it a POINT to say in just about every response that I like Ajay. You can even look back for verification on that. He's done...for the most part...an excellent job. Heaven forbid someone point out that perhaps some further detail would be nice in as you described it "one single Tweet".

 

Make you a deal. I'll "check myself" when you "get over yourself".

 

And with that, I'm done. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Whatever one thinks of the Bills choice to draft him in the 3rd last season, you hate to hear it.

Hope it's not serious.

 

Yeah for sure, he gets a hard time about his size at times, but from all indications it seems he's been having a pretty good camp.

[That's No Moon]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Yeah for sure, he gets a hard time about his size at times, but from all indications it seems he's been having a pretty good camp.

I don't care if he's small, but he's small he has to play a certain way. I was looking forward to seeing him to see if he'd improved because what he showed us last year was nothing short of alarming.

[eball]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Allen was under constant pressure - without pads. Which worries me, since without pads, it's more about technique. And the d-line's technique was blowing away the o-lines.  I sure hope it was a one day anomaly because if not, we are in for a long season. 

 

Do you enjoy just being completely wrong about everything?

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

47 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

Even when challenged to find something good, you have to throw in a negative. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Even when challenged to find something good, you have to throw in a negative. 

🥾 

[Logic]

55 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Kincaid's hands are like magnets.

 

The anti-Gabe Davis.

This board really needed a fresh, compelling new villain. 

Thanks for all that you do.

[dickleyjones]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

This board really needed a fresh, compelling new villain. 

Thanks for all that you do.

aw, come on, Einstein has owned himself multiple times recently. booooooriiiiiiiing.

 

now, crayonz, THAT was a true entertainer!