Tremaine Edmunds will test free agency

[Beast]

11 hours ago, Nitro said:

As many on Two Bills drive opine about Edmunds pro and con, his loss will impact this offense more than they realize.  His leaving opens a huge hole and there is no immediate solutions.  He has been inconsistent but his presence on the field alters passing games over the middle. This off season will be an interesting one to see the direction the Bills are going to go. 

I agree with this. I am an Edmunds fan as well however that money needs to be allocated to the offense.

[ColoradoBills]

31 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I could see Crowder back on a cheap deal if the Bills liked what they saw from him before his injury. Reliable slot is still a hole. The rest I agree are goners.

 

Crowder signed for essentially a $2M guaranteed deal last year.  If he doesn't get a team with a decent amount guaranteed

I could see the Bills bringing him back to camp.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

The whole team sleep walked against the Bungles including our coaching staff.  He was crucial in the WC game though.  He was also a major reason we were able to get the 2nd seed.

 

I think he’s worth the investment given his age, freakish build, length, range, time in the system, and the major jump we were all waiting for this past season.  Get what you can for Oliver and let Poyer walk.  Focus the rest on rebuilding that o-line.

What major bump? He played better for five games. Otherwise same lack of instincts and lack of impact plays. WC Game against a JV Miami offense and we were losing interest third quarter. He will never be a difference maker. If there was no cap of course you keep him. He's not awful. But there is a cap and he is not worth the investment. 

In October I was almost convinced to keep him. But watching another collapse by this fraud defense in the playoffs has solidified my resolve. Let Edmunds go and give McDermott one more year with all resources going to the offense. If they fail again, blow it all up.

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, Nitro said:

As many on Two Bills drive opine about Edmunds pro and con, his loss will impact this offense more than they realize.  His leaving opens a huge hole and there is no immediate solutions.  He has been inconsistent but his presence on the field alters passing games over the middle. This off season will be an interesting one to see the direction the Bills are going to go. 

Lots of immediate options being discussed in this thread:
https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/246114-suitable-edmunds-replacements-in-the-draft/

 

[3rdand12]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:55 PM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I feel like our first step to becoming a better defense is going in a different direction at LB. Go get the next Spikes

in his early years I hope

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Short story is Edmunds is key to the McD/Frazier defense. The FO failed in getting a good DL to get the 4 man rush needed to sustain that D. Losing Edmunds means changing up the defensive scheme. I don't think Frazier has the will or the chops to do it. Maybe that's why they brought in Holcomb. 

I think McD does have the chops to change up.
we shall see though. Always the optimist am I

[stinky finger]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:55 PM, SCBills said:

Another thing this report tells me, is that the Bills may actually do some unexpected stuff this off-season. 
 

I would NEVER have thought I’d see that tweet referenced by the OP, re: Tremaine.  Gives some hope for those of us also begging them to trade Oliver and really transform the Offense. 

 

You can Trade White while you're at it 

[Nextmanup]

I'm relieved.  I think the Bills would LOVE to re-sign him and probably had it as a top priority, but if Edmunds is going to chase the money, there is no way we can stay in the bidding.

THANK GOD.

 

Frees things up fore more important positions.

 

 

8 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Short story is Edmunds is key to the McD/Frazier defense. The FO failed in getting a good DL to get the 4 man rush needed to sustain that D. Losing Edmunds means changing up the defensive scheme. I don't think Frazier has the will or the chops to do it. Maybe that's why they brought in Holcomb. 

Not necessarily; he's far from irreplaceable and he's not hate only fast LB out there.

 

A lot of Edmunds supporters are going to get an education when he is replaced with someone else, and the D marches on more or less the same.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

You can Trade White while you're at it 

what do you expect to get for him? He is way more valuable to us that he would be for another team.

32 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm relieved.  I think the Bills would LOVE to re-sign him and probably had it as a top priority, but if Edmunds is going to chase the money, there is no way we can stay in the bidding.

THANK GOD.

 

Frees things up fore more important positions.

 

 

Not necessarily; he's far from irreplaceable and he's not hate only fast LB out there.

 

A lot of Edmunds supporters are going to get an education when he is replaced with someone else, and the D marches on more or less the same.

 

 

That could go the other direction as well

[Mikie2times]

Maybe it forces Frazier to not have to depend on a freak athlete to make his defense sort of work. 

[DCbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm relieved.  I think the Bills would LOVE to re-sign him and probably had it as a top priority, but if Edmunds is going to chase the money, there is no way we can stay in the bidding.

It's taken me awhile to get here but I agree with you.  I believe Beane and McDermott thought they were drafting a real game changer but it never developed in that sense.  I think Edmunds is gone, and although it might sting initially to lose a good player, the Bills should be better off if they make some good free agent signings in lieu of re-signing Edmunds.  Sign a starting guard and a WR.

[purple haze]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:58 AM, SCBills said:

Good to hear.  
 

Really good player.  And in another time, he’d make all the sense in the world to prioritize and bring back, but with heavy defensive dollars tied up in Von Miller, Tre White, Matt Milano and Micah Hyde (essentially one potential star player at each level of the defense), it’s time to move on.  
 

I’d still be shocked if we didn’t do something stupid like match what will inevitably be a big contract offer from someone else, but this is promising for those of us that want offensive investment this off-season. 
 

 

 

Don’t assume letting Edmunds walk  means that money will go to offensive acquisitions; depends on where Beane sees the value: Draft v. FA.  He might see the available free agents having more impactful players on the defensive side and more Offensive Line/WR impact in the draft. And they would need to replace Edmunds.

Edited February 19, 2023 by purple haze

[Luka]

He's a mediocre middle linebacker and never developed into the Kuchely Beane and McDermott hoped he would. He's awful in the run game and no where near as impactful in the passing game as you'd hope for with his size and athleticism. 

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm relieved.  I think the Bills would LOVE to re-sign him and probably had it as a top priority, but if Edmunds is going to chase the money, there is no way we can stay in the bidding.

THANK GOD.

 

Frees things up fore more important positions.

 

 

Not necessarily; he's far from irreplaceable and he's not hate only fast LB out there.

 

A lot of Edmunds supporters are going to get an education when he is replaced with someone else, and the D marches on more or less the same.

 

 

When Edmunds was out this season the D looked bad.  It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.   If he walks they’ll have to make it work, but there’s no guarantee they find a better player right away.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

It won't be easy, but this is a huge opportunity for both parties. He could get unbelievably rich finding someone who'll bite and overpay for his services, and the Bills could upgrade the team overall by allocating the resources he'd command somewhere else while still ensuring no drop-off and possibly even better play at the MLB position. It's up to Beane to make a win-win situation out of this.

[Luka]

9 minutes ago, purple haze said:

When Edmunds was out this season the D looked bad.  It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.   If he walks they’ll have to make it work, but there’s no guarantee they find a better player right away.

 When Milano is out, the defense looks putrid, Edmunds does not impact the defense in the same way. Aside from the tall guy not standing in the middle of the field flat footed, I hardly noticed he was out when he got hurt last year. Klein is better in the run game, that was noticeable. 

[DCofNC]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:01 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

Bears, Texans, Giants, Raiders all have a huge need there and have a ton of cap space. I have my money on the Bears or Texans. 

Daboll knows his coverage skills, He had to scheme against him every day in practice.  The Giants are OUT on this one.

[Steptide]

Honestly I'd be surprised if the bills dont make him an offer at the very least. This is a guy that beane drafted (and moved up if I remember?). Obviously we don't wanna over pay, but I think the bills at least make an attempt to keep him 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Steptide

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm relieved.  I think the Bills would LOVE to re-sign him and probably had it as a top priority, but if Edmunds is going to chase the money, there is no way we can stay in the bidding.

THANK GOD.

 

Frees things up fore more important positions.

 

 

Not necessarily; he's far from irreplaceable and he's not hate only fast LB out there.

 

A lot of Edmunds supporters are going to get an education when he is replaced with someone else, and the D marches on more or less the same.

 

 

He's not irreplaceable.  But in the current D Frazier runs he's a key piece. When he's gone they will have to change up and I am happy for it.

[DrPJax]

22 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Figures Edmunds plays by far his best year on his contract year.  He's the one player that there was a notable drop off in our defense when he was out.  Hindsight says we should've extended him last year.  Now, he may have priced himself out to a rebuilding team with plenty of cap room.  It stinks.

      It was ONE HALF OF ONE GAME where I think most would agree the d performance dropped off , the 2nd half of the Vikings game. Name ONE OTHER scenario where his absence was obviously missed, please?  Also, our offense began to a struggle and I think had some turnovers in that game , (forgive me from just going by memory , but I know we blew a big lead and we saw several other games where our O went into a shell as the opponent figured out Dorsey’s offense combined with at time poor decision making on our QB’s part) as the Vikings came from behind.  Yes , their o made plays, including the offensive play of the year which had  nothing to do with edmunds, but poor CB and DL play which became a recurrent theme.   

 

      Everyone suddenly wanted to make that same correlation with edmunds being out , yet there is no way to make that EXACT correlation as the offense didn’t play as well as it had getting the lead in the first place, and we were down to having Cam Lewis on the field defending someone like Jefferson. The same exact scenario happened with edmunds playing during the MIAMI playoff game, as we blew a large lead and barely won the game, yet no one points out edmunds role in that defensive debacle when he was healthy and leading the defensive effort against a 3rd or 4th string QB!

     There is no way to prove that argument about play dropping off by the D was caused SOLEY by edmunds injury when in fact we were beginning to see this pattern happening repeatedly as we faced better teams who game planned for Frazier’s D , and ultimately lead to Cincy ending the Bills season with Edmunds on the field.   The two things , his injury and the loss, were just as likely coincidence as being a causation, and the loss was multifaceted with errors on BOTH SIDES of the ball.   I think them not extending him when they could have the prior year speaks volumes.    

 

     You know what is interesting , why don’t we hear much about games that EDMUNDS made a game winning play in?  Can you post a few of those he played a SIGNIFICANT , GAME CHANGING ROLE in , just as a counter to ascribing the Vikings loss mainly to his absence for a half?  Probably going to hear crickets waiting to see those type of game results over his 5 year career being posted. Maybe that’s why he wasn’t extended; when you have to sit and think that hard about games he positively impacted so much it resulted in a Bills win, maybe his best year still wasn’t  that exceptional and maybe that level of production can actually be matched or bettered for less money than his ‘reputation” might garner. If they do bring him back at a fair value, I’m all for not creating another hole to fill, but at the same time I’m not panicked if he signs elsewhere .  I think we have a star in Milano, and we just need to find a complimentary LB  to keep the D performing well enough to not notice a significant drop off. 

 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

He's not irreplaceable.  But in the current D Frazier runs he's a key piece. When he's gone they will have to change up and I am happy for it.

Or they will find a similar player to Edmonds

[Richard Noggin]

17 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s fair. But here’s my counter: When does McDermott, Frazier & Co. have to do something with less like the offense has had to? 2 firsts spent on CBs, a first at MLB, 2 firsts, 2 seconds a huge FA signing on the DL versus 1 first on a QB, a first traded for a WR, 2 seconds spent on the OL (one of which busted) and 1 second on a RB.

 

My take is that defensive success the Bills have had is due directly to the resources spent on it. If that’s what a team needs to do to find success, then it’s the talent and not the coaching. The other side of that coin is the opportunity cost of using those resources on the offense. The deficiencies we see at OL and WR are because of what was spent on the defense. The job Daboll did to help this offense succeed should not be discounted. That was very much an uphill battle - even with Allen and Diggs - versus what the defensive side had to do.

 

Today’s NFL is not a league where you win a SB by building a pristine defense and then using the leftovers to support your FQB. This has been my single greatest point of frustration with this Bills regime. My fear with Edmunds hitting FA is that this regime will pay whatever it takes to retain him because McDermott needs an MLB like him to run his defense. Or they’ll use another first round pick (or more with a trade up) to replace him. 

 

Looking at the bolded, let's take it even further: Josh Allen functions as a kind of multiplier for resources invested in offensive skill positions. WRs, for sure, have been having career years here lately. Imagine the returns on another (after Diggs) 1st round investment? 

 

Maybe even more significant: resources invested in the offensive line function as a kind of multiplier for Josh Allen. That starts to get exponential. Go get some blue chip linemen. 

[BillsFan692]

8 hours ago, purple haze said:

When Edmunds was out this season the D looked bad.  It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.   If he walks they’ll have to make it work, but there’s no guarantee they find a better player right away.

Opinion. Mine is that the D looked bad either way with or without 

[BillsFan692]

20 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

It might happen even with Edmunds on the field. 

Didnt miamis 3rd stringer drop like 30 on us

[stinky finger]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

what do you expect to get for him? He is way more valuable to us that he would be for another team.

That could go the other direction as well

 

I’m not gonna pretend to know his value, but he’s clearly on the back nine. Better a year too early…..

 

if it helps the cap and can provide help elsewhere, that’s where I’m at. 

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Looking at the bolded, let's take it even further: Josh Allen functions as a kind of multiplier for resources invested in offensive skill positions. WRs, for sure, have been having career years here lately. Imagine the returns on another (after Diggs) 1st round investment? 

 

Maybe even more significant: resources invested in the offensive line function as a kind of multiplier for Josh Allen. That starts to get exponential. Go get some blue chip linemen. 

I was going to respond to you with the bolded, until you wrote it first! 

 

This is dead-on in my opinion.  I have been saying this for several years now.

 

Making the OL better makes Josh Allen better, which should be Mission Numero Uno!

 

 

[T master]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:44 AM, HappyDays said:

 

Anything is possible but it sounds like we have seen the end of Edmunds' career as a Bill. Which leaves more room to build the offense.

 

 

There are no dedication to any 1 team anymore it's who has the biggest check book that is the ONLY consideration !

 

It's been nice Tremaine see you in another uni next year !!!!!! 

[Nitro]

23 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

His presence did nothing to get to the SuperBowl. Happy to see him go. 

Defense was non existent in the SuperBowl. 

All resources should go to the offense. 

You realize his presence freed up Milano?  Removing him will alter the defense greatly. Your logic is flawed.  They should not resign any of their UFA since the Bills got to the Super Bowl.  

23 hours ago, Chaos said:

Lots of immediate options being discussed in this thread:
https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/246114-suitable-edmunds-replacements-in-the-draft/

 

I saw this and wonder....why create a huge need when you have two already?  Use a premium draft pick on a LB instead of a WR or OL?  Pessimistic view is Beane lets many of their UFA walk.  

[BillMafia716ix]

The possibility of having to replace Edmunds and Poyer is going to do more harm than people realize. Von coming off injury. Micah Hyde coming off injury. Damar Hamlin situation.  I know everybody screaming offense but losing two pivotal guys like that to the defense and with so many question marks injury wise. The defense could see a significant drop off which puts even more pressure on the offense. 

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The possibility of having to replace Edmunds and Poyer is going to do more harm than people realize. Von coming off injury. Micah Hyde coming off injury. Damar Hamlin situation.  I know everybody screaming offense but losing two pivotal guys like that to the defense and with so many question marks injury wise. The defense could see a significant drop off which puts even more pressure on the offense. 

McFrazier better coach them up then !
but yes. Losing Hyde already showed itself. Poyer when out also.
But they really schemed around Edmunds length/height in pass coverage to block passing lanes.
 Time for Coaching to be uncomfortable and get to work on something different anyways

[ColoradoBills]

12 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The possibility of having to replace Edmunds and Poyer is going to do more harm than people realize. Von coming off injury. Micah Hyde coming off injury. Damar Hamlin situation.  I know everybody screaming offense but losing two pivotal guys like that to the defense and with so many question marks injury wise. The defense could see a significant drop off which puts even more pressure on the offense. 

 

Using a military analogy "you have to be strong somewhere".  What that means is up to Beane to decide now that the team has

matured and has serious money decisions to make.

 

It's pretty obvious that I'm in the "Josh is the franchise so protect him" group.  Divide the assets after that.

[Doc Brown]

17 hours ago, DrPJax said:

      It was ONE HALF OF ONE GAME where I think most would agree the d performance dropped off , the 2nd half of the Vikings game. Name ONE OTHER scenario where his absence was obviously missed, please?  Also, our offense began to a struggle and I think had some turnovers in that game , (forgive me from just going by memory , but I know we blew a big lead and we saw several other games where our O went into a shell as the opponent figured out Dorsey’s offense combined with at time poor decision making on our QB’s part) as the Vikings came from behind.  Yes , their o made plays, including the offensive play of the year which had  nothing to do with edmunds, but poor CB and DL play which became a recurrent theme.   

 

      Everyone suddenly wanted to make that same correlation with edmunds being out , yet there is no way to make that EXACT correlation as the offense didn’t play as well as it had getting the lead in the first place, and we were down to having Cam Lewis on the field defending someone like Jefferson. The same exact scenario happened with edmunds playing during the MIAMI playoff game, as we blew a large lead and barely won the game, yet no one points out edmunds role in that defensive debacle when he was healthy and leading the defensive effort against a 3rd or 4th string QB!

     There is no way to prove that argument about play dropping off by the D was caused SOLEY by edmunds injury when in fact we were beginning to see this pattern happening repeatedly as we faced better teams who game planned for Frazier’s D , and ultimately lead to Cincy ending the Bills season with Edmunds on the field.   The two things , his injury and the loss, were just as likely coincidence as being a causation, and the loss was multifaceted with errors on BOTH SIDES of the ball.   I think them not extending him when they could have the prior year speaks volumes.    

 

     You know what is interesting , why don’t we hear much about games that EDMUNDS made a game winning play in?  Can you post a few of those he played a SIGNIFICANT , GAME CHANGING ROLE in , just as a counter to ascribing the Vikings loss mainly to his absence for a half?  Probably going to hear crickets waiting to see those type of game results over his 5 year career being posted. Maybe that’s why he wasn’t extended; when you have to sit and think that hard about games he positively impacted so much it resulted in a Bills win, maybe his best year still wasn’t  that exceptional and maybe that level of production can actually be matched or bettered for less money than his ‘reputation” might garner. If they do bring him back at a fair value, I’m all for not creating another hole to fill, but at the same time I’m not panicked if he signs elsewhere .  I think we have a star in Milano, and we just need to find a complimentary LB  to keep the D performing well enough to not notice a significant drop off. 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay.  Disregard the Vikings game.  In the three games that Edmunds missed Pickett in his first start threw for 327 yards (0 TD's, 1 INT), Brissett had his best game of the year (324 yards, 3 TD's, O INT's), and Goff threw for 240 yards with 2 TD's and 0 INT's.  Causation doesn't equal correlation but I consider three games a trend.  Luckily, their defenses sucked so were able to outscore them.

 

Our pass defense was 27th in EPA without him on the field and 4th with him on the field.  PFF graded him as the top linebacker in pass coverage at 90.0 and overall he went from a 48.5 in 2021 to a 81.2 in 2022.  His missed tackle rate was only 6.5%.  He was the player McBeane envisioned when drafting him this year and turns 25 in May.  This guy's going to be a hot commodity in a pass happy league and if we can't afford him a tag and trade should be on the table.

[Boatdrinks]

13 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Didnt miamis 3rd stringer drop like 30 on us

And covered about 70 yards total for 21 of them in the process. The D got the job done that day. 

[zevo]

Just outscore teams. That should be the mindset of the off-season. McD is a defensive coach and should have the ability to coach up money ball defensive players. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, zevo said:

Just outscore teams. That should be the mindset of the off-season. McD is a defensive coach and should have the ability to coach up money ball defensive players. 

I think that replicating is the best part of strategy here and I looked at the Chiefs
 

They made a concerted effort to improve the line in front of Patrick Mahomes to the point where they have a seventh round, running back out of Rutgers, killing it in the NFL

 

They had a lot of rookie starting on their defense. By the end of the year those rookies were making plays

 

Let’s do that

[JaCrispy]

So many comp picks coming our way next year! 👍😉

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Didnt miamis 3rd stringer drop like 30 on us

Allen and the offense gifted them at least half those points. 

[SCBills]

8 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The possibility of having to replace Edmunds and Poyer is going to do more harm than people realize. Von coming off injury. Micah Hyde coming off injury. Damar Hamlin situation.  I know everybody screaming offense but losing two pivotal guys like that to the defense and with so many question marks injury wise. The defense could see a significant drop off which puts even more pressure on the offense. 

Maybe our Defensive HC should work his magic and scheme up an adequate defense that doesn’t rely on being loaded at every position.  

[Sharky7337]

More like Tremaine Edmunds will test the next fan base lol

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sharky7337

[nucci]

23 hours ago, T master said:

 

 

There are no dedication to any 1 team anymore it's who has the biggest check book that is the ONLY consideration !

 

It's been nice Tremaine see you in another uni next year !!!!!! 

does this bother you? If I was an NFL player I'd try to get as much money as I can. Not many players get a chance at a big 2nd contract and those that do need to take advantage. This could be his only chance