Brandon Beane admitting fault & not learning from his mistakes.

[AuntieEm]

On 2/13/2023 at 7:37 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed and Teller has thrived in a run first - heavy run offense - which the Bills would not have been.

 

Teller still struggles when the Browns are forced to throw and teams don’t respect the run.

 

His pass blocking is not great and although he might be a slight improvement here - I doubt he is anywhere near the same player on a pass heavy - pass first team.

 

 

Plus gotta take in consideration coaching scheme  and how well a player meshes with his lineages.  Not all players gel as well as others and with the trenches you can be made or broken by the right versus wrong linemstes.

[DJB]

I love Beane but he really needs to start hitting on his early draft picks. We’ve wasted way too many 2nd round picks for my liking. 
 

 

[Big Turk]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:34 PM, Rebel101 said:

"A lot of love for him. Big kid," general manager Brandon Beane said. "Last time we went to Virginia Tech late, it worked out with Wyatt. I screwed it up, but we found a good player there. Not to say this kid is going to be Wyatt, but we're excited about him." This is an article about Wyatt Teller a prospect I thought we hit with & showed great potential said he was a bully & nasty. Clearly Beane wasn’t high on him maybe he didn’t fit the culture. Took what we could get in a trade & he became a pro bowler. Now Hodgins flashed in camp a few times. Brought a huge element to the offense big body,speed, I mean added to Diggs, Davis, McKenzie/Shakir would have gave us some great matchups. The fact Beane let him sit on the PS. Knowing Daboll knows all about Hodgins why not active. You bring in John Brown & Cole Beasley. Both old & already played themselves out of Buffalo. So I have no faith in McDermott or Beane fixing their issues. While our owner clearly is dealing with health issues of his wife a part owner as well. So I don’t see anything being fixed next year. Unless Dorsey has a revelation. 

 

Hodgins is a JAG who will be out of the NFL in 2 years. He doesn't even have Robert Foster upside.  Unless he plays the Vikings apparently.  Against all other teams he didn't have more than 4 catches or 44 yards.

[ngbills]

2019-2021 2nd and 3rd's gone: 4 of 9 picks from rounds 1-3 already gone. 

 

Ford

Singletary

Moss

Basham

 

Who could be next on the list: Brown, AJE for starters. That would be 6 of 9.

 

2022 draft is not looking positive either with Elam and Bernard possibly added to this list in the next couple seasons. 

[hondo in seattle]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:34 PM, Rebel101 said:

"A lot of love for him. Big kid," general manager Brandon Beane said. "Last time we went to Virginia Tech late, it worked out with Wyatt. I screwed it up, but we found a good player there. Not to say this kid is going to be Wyatt, but we're excited about him." This is an article about Wyatt Teller a prospect I thought we hit with & showed great potential said he was a bully & nasty. Clearly Beane wasn’t high on him maybe he didn’t fit the culture. Took what we could get in a trade & he became a pro bowler. Now Hodgins flashed in camp a few times. Brought a huge element to the offense big body,speed, I mean added to Diggs, Davis, McKenzie/Shakir would have gave us some great matchups. The fact Beane let him sit on the PS. Knowing Daboll knows all about Hodgins why not active. You bring in John Brown & Cole Beasley. Both old & already played themselves out of Buffalo. So I have no faith in McDermott or Beane fixing their issues. While our owner clearly is dealing with health issues of his wife a part owner as well. So I don’t see anything being fixed next year. Unless Dorsey has a revelation. 

 

 

My advice.  Go to the Louvre in Paris.  Get close to the paintings done by the masters.  Examine every brush stroke.  Find the imperfections - they're there.  But then step back and take in the beauty of the entire composition.  

 

Beane, like all GMs, makes mistakes.  Given we've won more games in the past few years than nearly every other team in the NFL, it seems he makes fewer than most GMs.  Take a step back and enjoy the big picture.  We used to be losers.  Now we're winners.  He just needs to cap it all off with a SB title.  

[FilthyBeast]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:34 PM, Rebel101 said:

"A lot of love for him. Big kid," general manager Brandon Beane said. "Last time we went to Virginia Tech late, it worked out with Wyatt. I screwed it up, but we found a good player there. Not to say this kid is going to be Wyatt, but we're excited about him." This is an article about Wyatt Teller a prospect I thought we hit with & showed great potential said he was a bully & nasty. Clearly Beane wasn’t high on him maybe he didn’t fit the culture. Took what we could get in a trade & he became a pro bowler. Now Hodgins flashed in camp a few times. Brought a huge element to the offense big body,speed, I mean added to Diggs, Davis, McKenzie/Shakir would have gave us some great matchups. The fact Beane let him sit on the PS. Knowing Daboll knows all about Hodgins why not active. You bring in John Brown & Cole Beasley. Both old & already played themselves out of Buffalo. So I have no faith in McDermott or Beane fixing their issues. While our owner clearly is dealing with health issues of his wife a part owner as well. So I don’t see anything being fixed next year. Unless Dorsey has a revelation. 

 

Something tells me a few years from now the Pegulas, Bills mafia, etc are going to realize we kept the wrong GM and HC and made a grave mistake letting them go to the Giants.

[schoolhouserock]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

2019-2021 2nd and 3rd's gone: 4 of 9 picks from rounds 1-3 already gone. 

 

Ford

Singletary

Moss

Basham

 

Who could be next on the list: Brown, AJE for starters. That would be 6 of 9.

 

2022 draft is not looking positive either with Elam and Bernard possibly added to this list in the next couple seasons. 

The Singletary pick is arguably OK. The Bills got run-of-the-mill value out of an RB with that pick.

 

The other three… all we can say is that at least the Bills’ got SOME compensation when they decided those players weren’t going to pan out.

 

It’s obviously better to take players that end up working out, but at least they weren’t outright cuts.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

My advice.  Go to the Louvre in Paris.  Get close to the paintings done by the masters.  Examine every brush stroke.  Find the imperfections - they're there.  But then step back and take in the beauty of the entire composition.  

 

Beane, like all GMs, makes mistakes.  Given we've won more games in the past few years than nearly every other team in the NFL, it seems he makes fewer than most GMs.  Take a step back and enjoy the big picture.  We used to be losers.  Now we're winners.  He just needs to cap it all off with a SB title.  

Gross oversimplification. Allen has won more games. He got the QB. Outside of that he’s probably average. If Oliver doesn’t get better and Elam is a bust then he is probably below average. 

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I love Beane but he really needs to start hitting on his early draft picks. We’ve wasted way too many 2nd round picks for my liking. 
 

 

Odd phenomenon. Maybe we should consider using it as ammo to do something else with. 

 

Package it with a 1st and 4th to go up and snag Josh another legit WR this coming year or Tackle, left or right. We have a strong roster, I admit it's a painful cost, but a blue chipper on offense would be nice

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Something tells me a few years from now the Pegulas, Bills mafia, etc are going to realize we kept the wrong GM and HC and made a grave mistake letting them go to the Giants.

 

 

Well maybe the Bills can hire Daboll in a 3 years when he's on the unemployment line after being fired by the Giants.  Much better chance at that happening.

[Matt_In_NH]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:34 PM, Rebel101 said:

"A lot of love for him. Big kid," general manager Brandon Beane said. "Last time we went to Virginia Tech late, it worked out with Wyatt. I screwed it up, but we found a good player there. Not to say this kid is going to be Wyatt, but we're excited about him." This is an article about Wyatt Teller a prospect I thought we hit with & showed great potential said he was a bully & nasty. Clearly Beane wasn’t high on him maybe he didn’t fit the culture. Took what we could get in a trade & he became a pro bowler. Now Hodgins flashed in camp a few times. Brought a huge element to the offense big body,speed, I mean added to Diggs, Davis, McKenzie/Shakir would have gave us some great matchups. The fact Beane let him sit on the PS. Knowing Daboll knows all about Hodgins why not active. You bring in John Brown & Cole Beasley. Both old & already played themselves out of Buffalo. So I have no faith in McDermott or Beane fixing their issues. While our owner clearly is dealing with health issues of his wife a part owner as well. So I don’t see anything being fixed next year. Unless Dorsey has a revelation. 

Nice downer....there is nothing good happening in Buffalo, we are doomed

[John from Riverside]

Still one of the best general managers in the league

[BillsShredder83]

16 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Gross oversimplification. Allen has won more games. He got the QB. Outside of that he’s probably average. If Oliver doesn’t get better and Elam is a bust then he is probably below average. 

I'd just like to add a reminder that seems forgotten with the allen pick. He masterfully made moves to get us up to that pick!  Traded that injury prone LT to Cinci for a move up, and Tyrod for 2nd rd ammo (or 1st of the 3rd rd?), did the double trade up in draft. 

 

It's not like Josh fell in our lap. Not saying we can't draft better, just that we forget what it took to go get Josh

 

And a 2nd rder for watkins*

 

Really amazing moves looking back

Edited August 29, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[GunnerBill]

There is no doubt about it Brandon's day 2 drafting record is not good.

 

If Elam busts that it is his first miss on day one. He has only drafted 1 day one star so far - Allen, but Edmunds, Oliver, trade for Diggs, Rousseau and hopefully Kincaid is a pretty solid day one record. 

 

His day three record is good: Siran Neal, Taron Johnson, Wyatt Teller (yes I know he traded him), Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass, Dane Jackson, Christian Benford.... 

 

But before this past draft his day two record is pretty awful:

 

Harrison Phillips: played his rookie deal, never won a starting job, left in FA

Cody Ford: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal for a day 3 pick

Devin Singletary: starter for 3 of 4 years on rookie deal, solid pick, left in FA

Dawson Knox: SECOND CONTRACT, started as a rookie and every year since, around the top 10 at his position. Easily Beane's best day two pick

AJ Epenesa: started 3 games in 3 seasons, has carved something of a niche as a rotational rusher, will likely leave at the end of his rookie deal in FA

Zack Moss: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal as a makeweight in a trade

Boogie Basham: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal for a swap of late round picks

Spencer Brown: jury massively still out. Big year for him.

James Cook: promising. Fingers crossed.

Terrell Bernard: still a glimmer of hope but he was behind Dodson in camp when he got hurt. 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I love Beane but he really needs to start hitting on his early draft picks. We’ve wasted way too many 2nd round picks for my liking. 
 

 

St. Bill Polian had misses in the early rounds too: 1986 Ronnie Harmon 1st round, 1987 Roland Mitchell 2nd, 1988 (Bills 2nd pick) Bernard Ford 3rd, the 1989 draft where the Bills had no 1st & 2nd round picks had a lot of busts after Don Beebe was taken with their 1st pick in round 3, 1990 James Williams 1st, 1991 Darryl Wren 3rd, 1992James Patton 2nd.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

15 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I'd just like to add a reminder that seems forgotten with the allen pick. He masterfully made moves to get us up to that pick!  Traded that injury prone LT to Cinci for a move up, and Tyrod for 2nd rd ammo (or 1st of the 3rd rd?), did the double trade up in draft. 

 

It's not like Josh fell in our lap. Not saying we can't draft better, just that we forget what it took to go get Josh

 

And a 2nd rder for watkins*

 

Really amazing moves looking back

Half those moves were made before the draft. Everyone knew Beane was taking a QB. The others were made draft day and to move ahead of Arizona to get Allen was excellent work.

I would argue had Cleveland or NY taken Allen Beane would still have taken a QB and most likely it would have been one of the three busts Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen.  Elway could have also taken Allen but he let him slip by. We will never know.  You can't discount a little bit of luck in addition to the skill to move up. 

Also remember Beane gave away multiple picks to move up and take Edmunds. Obviously Edmunds was at a minimum a very good player. But he wasn't good enough to justify multiple picks and obviously not good enough to justify a second contract from Beane(with multiple mitigating factors no doubt).

[Ethan in Cleveland]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

There is no doubt about it Brandon's day 2 drafting record is not good.

 

If Elam busts that it is his first miss on day one. He has only drafted 1 day one star so far - Allen, but Edmunds, Oliver, trade for Diggs, Rousseau and hopefully Kincaid is a pretty solid day one record. 

 

His day three record is good: Siran Neal, Taron Johnson, Wyatt Teller (yes I know he traded him), Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass, Dane Jackson, Christian Benford.... 

 

But before this past draft his day two record is pretty awful:

 

Harrison Phillips: played his rookie deal, never won a starting job, left in FA

Cody Ford: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal for a day 3 pick

Devin Singletary: starter for 3 of 4 years on rookie deal, solid pick, left in FA

Dawson Knox: SECOND CONTRACT, started as a rookie and every year since, around the top 10 at his position. Easily Beane's best day two pick

AJ Epenesa: started 3 games in 3 seasons, has carved something of a niche as a rotational rusher, will likely leave at the end of his rookie deal in FA

Zack Moss: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal as a makeweight in a trade

Boogie Basham: bust, traded away before the end of his rookie deal for a swap of late round picks

Spencer Brown: jury massively still out. Big year for him.

James Cook: promising. Fingers crossed.

Terrell Bernard: still a glimmer of hope but he was behind Dodson in camp when he got hurt. 

 

Good summary. Honest question, 2 star players(Allen/Diggs) in 6 drafts one coming via trade.  Is that good enough? 

I think he has other solid picks like you pointed out. I love Knox and Taron Johnson but still don't like the Oliver pick and second contract. Hoping Rousseau flashes this year. Every GM has busts. But he is absolutely butchering day 2 of the draft which is where the core of the team should come from. 

Kincaid and Torrence can quiet the critics like me. Guys like AJE and Bernard make me question who is actually calling the draft shots, Beane or McDermott.  

 

Let's just see how it all works out. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

2019-2021 2nd and 3rd's gone: 4 of 9 picks from rounds 1-3 already gone. 

 

Ford

Singletary

Moss

Basham

 

Who could be next on the list: Brown, AJE for starters. That would be 6 of 9.

 

2022 draft is not looking positive either with Elam and Bernard possibly added to this list in the next couple seasons. 

 

Singletary was a good player and started at least 3 of his 4 years.  Give me a break.  RBs don't get 2nd contracts from teams looking to win Super Bowls.

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Singletary was a good player and started at least 3 of his 4 years.  Give me a break.  RBs don't get 2nd contracts from teams looking to win Super Bowls.

Come on. Singletary didnt get a second contract from anyone. The Bills could have got him back for a couple mil. They spend more on Hines. 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Something tells me a few years from now the Pegulas, Bills mafia, etc are going to realize we kept the wrong GM and HC and made a grave mistake letting them go to the Giants.

No in a few years the new Buffalo Bills stadium will be opening so it won’t matter. The Bills will sell hope with draft picks like all the NFL teams do. What Buffalo Super Fan? Go to bed BSF. Right every NFL teams highlight films sells hope that next year is our year. If the Buffalo Bills fired all these bums few Buffalo fans would care because that is how it works. Oh boy the Buffalo Bills didn’t resign Joe Cribbs and Chuck Knox Ralph Wilson surely everyone will regret that? No the Bills Ralph Wilson didn’t he just signed new hope and pocketed a lot of salary savings living off the huge NFL television revenue to buy more art to add to his personal collection. Ralph Wilson it was buying art Terry Pegula it’s building a Super Yacht they don’t regret or care much about the Buffalo fans thoughts at all. Regardless of Bills fans defending that and trying to ban hardcore Buffalo fans from telling the truth and telling it like it is. Ownership regardless of the city don’t regret stuff like that because they know they can sell maybe next year we alway have tomorrow a new day a new Buffalo. Stronger, leaner more powerful as ever with a new stadium with heated seating and new amenities for the Bills fans to enjoy. 7th round quarterback selection is the future as the Bills move onto a new Buffalo Bills football era a new beginning. My goodness watch the 1976-77 Buffalo Braves highlights film Van Miller made it like NBA championship was right around the corner for 1977-78 Buffalo Braves that was there final year in Buffalo they finished 27-55 then off to San Diego and Los Angeles to continue to suck. Professional sports teams sell hope. The Buffalo Bisons 2024 schedule is out Friday March 29, 2024 is opening day for the Buffalo Bisons in Buffalo. While the 2023 Buffalo Bisons are still in a 2023 IL Pennant Race all sports teams sell and market hope it’s just the way it is with no regret just onto the next season in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Success]

33 minutes ago, coloradobillsfan said:

If you don't think these draft whiffs have shortened Beane's leash considerably, you're in denial 

 

Beane's job is as safe as any in the NFL right now.  I doubt there is any consideration of moving on from him at all, at least at the moment.

 

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Good summary. Honest question, 2 star players(Allen/Diggs) in 6 drafts one coming via trade.  Is that good enough? 

I think he has other solid picks like you pointed out. I love Knox and Taron Johnson but still don't like the Oliver pick and second contract. Hoping Rousseau flashes this year. Every GM has busts. But he is absolutely butchering day 2 of the draft which is where the core of the team should come from. 

Kincaid and Torrence can quiet the critics like me. Guys like AJE and Bernard make me question who is actually calling the draft shots, Beane or McDermott.  

 

Let's just see how it all works out. 

I think that should be 5 drafts as the 6th draft class hasn’t had a chance to prove stardom. Our top 2 picks have a chance to double the list of 2.  I think Rousseau may add his name to this list this season as well.    

 

Taron isn’t a “star” but he’s in the conversation for the best slot corner in the league. 
 

Beane has had a tough time on day 2.  AINT no doubt about it. 

 

[Virgil]

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

[AuntieEm]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, teef said:

so it's impossible he reviews this past year, realizes what needs to change, and does it?

Only if he consults with the omniscient Bandit on what he can do to improve.

[SoTier]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:45 PM, teef said:

you don't think a new coordinator can improve from one season to the next?  he may not, but to act like it can't happen is wrong.

 

Why are you surprised that some on this MB think Dorsey can't improve?  There are pages upon pages of comments in multiple threads already consigning the 2022 draft class to the bust pile.  Our window has closed.  Beane can't make good picks in the first and second rounds.  The Jests and the Carp have better rosters, etc etc etc ...   Sometimes I have to go back and check that the Bills actually did go 13-3 last season and won a playoff game given the litany of "the sky is falling" chants that seem to be overrunning this MB.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4, 3/4 if you count Singletary which I think one should

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[TH3]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

Thank you

[Dablitzkrieg]

Can you imagine not realizing the draft is a crap shoot outside of the obvious talent?  Couldn't be any insane Bills fan.

[Nihilarian]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:49 PM, John from Riverside said:

I’m going to pre-face this by saying that I think that our general manager overall has done an outstanding job, you don’t stay in the playoffs every year and have 13 and three seasons whenever your GM sucks
 

However

 

I agree with the take of saying one thing, and doing another, whenever it comes to the offensive line

 

It feels like we have done the bare minimum to try to put a confident offensive line on the field, start addressing it the same way that you have been addressing the defensive line but hopefully with better players

I agree. The GM is really only as good as the scouts that are giving him info on players. Plus, I'll bet that McD has some input into those defensive picks.  *cough cough* Boogie. 

 

Seriously, some picks simply don't work out and fans just need to let it go. So he couldn't find a WR in the draft and traded for Diggs, couldn't find that premier pass rusher, and signed Von Miller. This stuff tells me his scouts aren't all that great. 

 

Buffalo is a great team and it's mostly because of Beane. 

[leonbus23]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:51 PM, Shaw66 said:

Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive.  Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season?   That he'll never improve?

 

That's just wrong.   I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing.   Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride.   Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career.  Ask Belichick.  

 

I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship.  He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him.  Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue."   

 

Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, 

 

A universial maxim about experience, knowledge, practice, and subsequent success conflicts with objective data. In the NFL, many coaches get worse over time, e.g., Rex Ryan.

 

Many lawyers do, too. 

 

Keep in mind that there must be some objective measure to serve as evidence of success via experience.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree. The GM is really only as good as the scouts that are giving him info on players. Plus, I'll bet that McD has some input into those defensive picks.  *cough cough* Boogie. 

 

Seriously, some picks simply don't work out and fans just need to let it go. So he couldn't find a WR in the draft and traded for Diggs, couldn't find that premier pass rusher, and signed Von Miller. This stuff tells me his scouts aren't all that great. 

 

Buffalo is a great team and it's mostly because of Beane. 

 

I think trading for a seasoned, proven top WR like Diggs wasn't about "couldn't find a WR in the draft".  I think he wanted a guy who could help develop Allen and help him take another step at the 3rd year of his career (as opposed to a mature vet like Kirk Cousins who can help develop his WR).

Pass rusher is a different issue, but who, that was reachable near our draft slot, would you have liked us to have taken?

 

It's not just how great your scouts are, it's where you draft as well.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, leonbus23 said:

Many lawyers do, too.

 

As an aside, just curious: how many interactions have you had with multiple (many) lawyers to be able to objectively assess whether they are worse, better, or the same, over time?  Not doubting you, it just seems unusual for a person to have that much interaction with many lawyers over time. 

 

Continuous improvement, professionally or personally, requires that one remain committed and dedicated to one's craft and continue to work hard and try to improve year by year.  Some people stay hungry.  Some people plateau, because they lose that fire to improve.

 

It seems obvious that by the time Rex wined and woo'ed Russ Brandon and the Pegulas into a big contract, he felt he had "arrived" and didn't have to continue to grind and study film and put in the hours.  He was "phoning it in".

 

On the other hand, when we hired Daboll, many here were against it, saying he had poor offenses (#29, 31, 20, 32) in 4 years as OC on 3 teams.  There were stories from one of his former QB about Daboll just screaming into the helmet and continually putting him down.  It seemed risky.

 

After 4 years as OC in Buffalo, at least some here have been saying we should have fired McDermott and handed the reins to Daboll. 

 

I think it's worth reiterating that under Dorsey, the Bills had the #3 offense in the league for points last season, and top 10 for both passing and rushing yards.  That matches 2020 under Daboll and is somewhat better than 2021 under Daboll.

[leonbus23]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

As an aside, just curious: how many interactions have you had with multiple (many) lawyers to be able to objectively assess whether they are worse, better, or the same, over time?  Not doubting you, it just seems unusual for a person to have that much interaction with many lawyers over time. 

 

Continuous improvement, professionally or personally, requires that one remain committed and dedicated to one's craft and continue to work hard and try to improve year by year.  Some people stay hungry.  Some people plateau, because they lose that fire to improve.

 

It seems obvious that by the time Rex wined and woo'ed Russ Brandon and the Pegulas into a big contract, he felt he had "arrived" and didn't have to continue to grind and study film and put in the hours.  He was "phoning it in".

 

On the other hand, when we hired Daboll, many here were against it, saying he had poor offenses (#29, 31, 20, 32) in 4 years as OC on 3 teams.  There were stories from one of his former QB about Daboll just screaming into the helmet and continually putting him down.  It seemed risky.

 

After 4 years as OC in Buffalo, at least some here have been saying we should have fired McDermott and handed the reins to Daboll. 

 

I think it's worth reiterating that under Dorsey, the Bills had the #3 offense in the league for points last season, and top 10 for both passing and rushing yards.  That matches 2020 under Daboll and is somewhat better than 2021 under Daboll.

 

Haha. Not too many lawyers. My main point is that the broad generalization that the lawyer made doesn't mean anything. Cherry picking the examples of Belechick, LeBron, Reid (and himself) is meaningless without an objective standard. His claim is about experience with the implication that it results in objective success. His claim gets muddled in subjective self-reflection with the LaBron quote. But it's decontextualized pathos speak. LaBron got DWade and a star teammate with the Lakers. Belechick got Brady. Reid got Mahomes. He got his dream paralegal (maybe). So, his maxim, really means nothing. That was my point. If he wants people to stop complaining about Dorsey, he should provide the data you provided, not espouse some grand truth about experience coupled with the bias of his individual anecodotal example that highlights his age and profession. 

 

 

[gobills404]

9 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

Yeah no duh every GM is gonna look bad if you only focus on their worst picks. Let’s look at the league darling GM Howie Roseman and some of his day 1 and day 2 picks since 2019.

Andre Dillard - 1.22 - Couldn’t beat out a 7th rounder for the starting job, no longer in Philly.

Miles Sanders - 2. 53 - no longer in Philly

JJ Arcega whiteside - 2.57 - massive bust

Jalen Reagor - 1 pick before Justin Jefferson - hahhahahahha

Davion Taylor - 3.103 - cut after 2 years

Milton Williams - 3.73 - 4th string Dt

Oh and his first 3 picks last year COMBINED (Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Nakobe Dean) played less snaps as rookies than Kaiir Elam.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by gobills404

[Jauronimo]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4, 3/4 if you count Singletary which I think one should

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

And all of those guys are on a 53 man roster today.  Even Cody Ford. 

[Virgil]

38 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Yeah no duh every GM is gonna look bad if you only focus on their worst picks. Let’s look at the league darling GM Howie Roseman and some of his day 1 and day 2 picks since 2019.

Andre Dillard - 1.22 - Couldn’t beat out a 7th rounder for the starting job, no longer in Philly.

Miles Sanders - 2. 53 - no longer in Philly

JJ Arcega whiteside - 2.57 - massive bust

Jalen Reagor - 1 pick before Justin Jefferson - hahhahahahha

Davion Taylor - 3.73 - cut after 2 years

Milton Williams - 3.73 - 4th string Dt

Oh and his first 3 picks last year COMBINED (Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Nakobe Dean) played less snaps as rookies than Kaiir Elam.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How dare you come at me with logic, reason, and facts?!!!

[Dr.Sack]

I’ll be the first to drag Beane on the draft but he has done a good job plugging the holes of his lackluster drafts. 

[Orlando Tim]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:38 PM, Nextmanup said:

Regarding your last sentence, I also don't understand how Dorsey is supposed to evolve into a different, much better coordinator in one off-season.  Sure, he probably picked up some experience here and there and learned some things, generally, but he's going to be the same guy next September.

That's not good.

 

 

He now should know what he wants from each of his players and have had much more say in the crafting of the offensive talent. Daboll liked his players a certain way and hopefully Dorsey doesn't pull a Saffold.

17 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

yes he sucks in round 2, he is solid everywhere else. We have a winning team and y'all kvetch like we are about to start the drought part II. Virgil this is not primarily at you but the overall tone is absurd.

 

[Bob Jones]

12 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Can you imagine not realizing the draft is a crap shoot outside of the obvious talent?  Couldn't be any insane Bills fan.

Agreed. And what you’re really saying here is that the NFL scouts and GMs really aren’t any smarter than intelligent/seasoned fans who have been watching the NFL and college ball for decades. So I get a laugh when I frequently see posters in here denigrate other posters because “you’re just a couch GM…you’re not a professional like the guys in charge at OBD!” 🙄

 

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious to anybody with a functioning brain. 😉

[newcam2012]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:51 PM, Shaw66 said:

Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive.  Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season?   That he'll never improve?

 

That's just wrong.   I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing.   Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride.   Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career.  Ask Belichick.  

 

I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship.  He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him.  Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue."   

 

Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, for sure.  

This is true but it only paints part of the correct picture Shaw. Improvement is very likely over years of experience. However, that improvement doesn't always equate to being effective, productive, and winning. Time and experience is just one variable to consider.

 

More specifically, we don't know how good or bad Dorsey will be .