Franchise in trouble- Josh Allen has regressed

[RoscoeParrish]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

funny how 90% agree with me

90% of this board will blame everything and everyone before criticizing Allen.  
 

I’m not saying he’s the sole reason we lost today, but today and this season was a step back for him. 

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

90% of this board will blame everything and everyone before criticizing Allen.  
 

I’m not saying he’s the sole reason we lost today, but today and this season was a step back for him. 

right cause they are all wrong and your right. keep trollin

[cle23]

38 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Um, Burrow may have had a hobbled OL, but he had little pressure on him from our Defense.  (and I like Burrow).  Put Allen on that offense with those receivers, RB, and against a team that can't pressure you and he scores 55 against our pathetic sit-back D.  

 

You're greatly overestimating Allen. He's not better than Burrow. Especially not twice as good. 

[SaulGoodman]

3 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Funny take this.

 

They literally gave him no help and he still carried this team to 13-3. He had 1 weapon and no OL to protect him. It got so bad with his weapons they went to guys who were out of the NFL.

 

Nah sorry, the FO failed this team. Beane hasn’t drafted a player of note, in 4 drafts.

I don’t understand the one weapon take. Only one really elite weapon, sure. Not many teams have multiple of those, if even one. Knox is one of the top TEs in the league and Davis is pretty good, especially on the big stage. He may have a few too many drops, but I think the good definitely outweighs the bad. Between those three, someone is nearly always open. McKenzie and Shakir aren’t bad either, especially as 4th and 5th options. 

[Wayne Cubed]

4 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

I don’t understand the one weapon take. Only one really elite weapon, sure. Not many teams have multiple of those, if even one. Knox is one of the top TEs in the league and Davis is pretty good, especially on the big stage. He may have a few too many drops, but I think the good definitely outweighs the bad. Between those three, someone is nearly always open. McKenzie and Shakir aren’t bad either, especially as 4th and 5th options. 

 

Let's look at who's left in the 4 remaining games:

Cinci - Have 2 legit #1 receivers both elite weapons and a very very good #3. You could argue that Hayden Hurst is comparable to Knox. 
SF - Have an elite RB and and elite WR and another borderline elite WR. Would also argue Kittle is elite.
Eagles - Have 2 legit #1 receivers both elite weapons.  Also have an elite RB in Sanders and Goedert is very very good.

KC - they are probably the outlier, with Kelce being the only elite weapon. He is the best TE in football though, so that's something. And until last offseason they had 2 on offense.

So yeah, not many teams, except 3 of the 4 remaining teams and that's the take. Sure, there are teams in the NFL that have 1 and some have none but not the best teams and this Bills team is severely lacking elite talent and that's on both sides of the ball. 

You know what all these other teams have in common as well. They have elite players in the trenches. The Bills do not and again it comes down to drafting. Beane has not drafted an elite player besides Josh and he's done nothing to help him out.

[mannc]

7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

switch Burrow and Allen and the score would have been 55-3.  

Wow, that’s one of the most myopic takes I’ve ever seen.  Allen played badly today.  Period. We can talk about the reasons for it, and context, etc., but he played badly and Burrow was damn near flawless. Sorry, but those are just facts.

[78thealltimegreat]

9 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

90% of this board will blame everything and everyone before criticizing Allen.  
 

I’m not saying he’s the sole reason we lost today, but today and this season was a step back for him. 

Dude you’re a dolphins fan worry about tua 

[ALLEN1QB]

Everyone who paid a fortune for his rookie cards not feeling so good I bet.

[Low Positive]

3 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Let's look at who's left in the 4 remaining games:

Cinci - Have 2 legit #1 receivers both elite weapons and a very very good #3. You could argue that Hayden Hurst is comparable to Knox. 
SF - Have an elite RB and and elite WR and another borderline elite WR. Would also argue Kittle is elite.
Eagles - Have 2 legit #1 receivers both elite weapons.  Also have an elite RB in Sanders and Goedert is very very good.

KC - they are probably the outlier, with Kelce being the only elite weapon. He is the best TE in football though, so that's something. And until last offseason they had 2 on offense.

So yeah, not many teams, except 3 of the 4 remaining teams and that's the take. Sure, there are teams in the NFL that have 1 and some have none but not the best teams and this Bills team is severely lacking elite talent and that's on both sides of the ball. 

You know what all these other teams have in common as well. They have elite players in the trenches. The Bills do not and again it comes down to drafting. Beane has not drafted an elite player besides Josh and he's done nothing to help him out.

Cincinnati has QB and two elite receivers on rookie contracts. That’s why they get to have that. They absolutely nailed two drafts in a row by ignoring conventional wisdom and building the skill positions before the lines. Yesterday they proved that OL doesn’t matter at all. Just load up on the fun stuff and get the ball out quick.

[Boatdrinks]

13 hours ago, goldenboy81 said:

Give him a oline and a creative coordinator, then get back to me

Yep. Give Allen the Chiefs OL and Andy Reid. Obviously the Bills won’t be able to acquire the services of Reid, but a close copy should be their game plan. Status quo will waste Josh Allen’s prodigious talent. 

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Cincinnati has QB and two elite receivers on rookie contracts. That’s why they get to have that. They absolutely nailed two drafts in a row by ignoring conventional wisdom and building the skill positions before the lines. Yesterday they proved that OL doesn’t matter at all. Just load up on the fun stuff and get the ball out quick.

 

They still have the better elite options AND they went after OL in FA and then still drafted OL. They just prioritised Borrow by getting him weapons, via the draft and then protecting him, via FA. The Bills haven't done anything like that, besides getting Diggs. 

[Boatdrinks]

9 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

You're greatly overestimating Allen. He's not better than Burrow. Especially not twice as good. 

No, Allen’s not twice as good as Joe Burrow. I like what he can do better than Burrow, but others opinions will vary. It’s pretty close between Allen, Mahomes and Burrow although I’d put Burrow third in that group. Anyone who thinks one of those three is far ahead of the others is simply a fanboy. 

[Back2Buff]

13 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Hes regressed because he’s running for his life back there. He’s sensing pressure before its there because we have NO ONE to block for him. This needs to be addressed like rocky…asap

 

This is such a lazy narrative that grinds my gears.

 

No O line will ever be "good" with a QB holding the ball for almost 4 secs.

 

Allen has no idea how to read a defense.  The dude will wait and wait until a guy has like 3 yards of separation.  The only time he gets a ball out quick is when the D forces him to with a blitz and he will just throw to his hot WR.

 

Teams have figured Allen out.  He can't anticipate which WR will be opened based upon the D they are playing on that specific play compared to the play we are running.  So teams just play Cover 2 vs Allen and he has no idea what to do.  So he holds and holds, doing crazy stuff in pocket waiting for a guy to go rouge and create 3 yards of separation.  

[zow2]

No question, this is the first time i’ve felt the Bills regressing during the Allen era.  So far it’s been ascending but we hit the wall recently and it culminated yesterday. 

[cle23]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

No, Allen’s not twice as good as Joe Burrow. I like what he can do better than Burrow, but others opinions will vary. It’s pretty close between Allen, Mahomes and Burrow although I’d put Burrow third in that group. Anyone who thinks one of those three is far ahead of the others is simply a fanboy. 

 

You said that given the same circumstances Allen would have put up 55 points and Burrow put up 27.  Do you truly believe that Allen is 28 points better? 

 

I think Allen and Mahomes probably have the highest ceiling with Burrow being very close behind them but Allen has by far the lowest floor because he turns the ball over a lot.

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Wow, that’s one of the most myopic takes I’ve ever seen.  Allen played badly today.  Period. We can talk about the reasons for it, and context, etc., but he played badly and Burrow was damn near flawless. Sorry, but those are just facts.

 

Your post is context free, and illogical in saying “why” Allen had a “bad game” (debatable) doesn't matter in comparing the QBs—of course it does.  Burrow was flawless, but he tons of time to throw (Allen didn’t), had a run game (Allen didn’t), and had great defensive play backing him (Allen didn’t).  Those are material differences. Allen on Bengals would have obliterated our D today. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, cle23 said:

 

You said that given the same circumstances Allen would have put up 55 points and Burrow put up 27.  Do you truly believe that Allen is 28 points better? 

 

I think Allen and Mahomes probably have the highest ceiling with Burrow being very close behind them but Allen has by far the lowest floor because he turns the ball over a lot.

You’ve confused me with someone else ; I said nothing about Allen putting up 55. Allen is asked to do quite a bit more than most QBs to cover up huge deficiencies on Offense. He had a couple more INTs than the others, mostly while fighting through a mid season elbow injury. He runs a lot more , so maybe a few more fumbles. It’s what you get with Allen but not a huge deal.

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Your post is context free, and illogical in saying “why” Allen had a “bad game” (debatable) doesn't matter in comparing the QBs—of course it does.  Burrow was flawless, but he tons of time to throw (Allen didn’t), had a run game (Allen didn’t), and had great defensive play backing him (Allen didn’t).  Those are material differences. Allen on Bengals would have obliterated our D today. 

Exactly. Burrow wasn’t asked to do too much - smart coaching- and executed it well. Mostly quick throws to the flat with a few longer throws mixed in. 

[KDIGGZ]

This is my opinion and it will upset some people but these are the facts: Josh does not take his job seriously. Here's why...

 

1. No diet plan. Has said he eats whatever he wants and his favorite is Bar Bill wings and beer. That's cool if you are a 40 year old poster on TBD but not cool if you are a world class athlete.

 

2. Does not work out. He said he doesn't lift weights with his upper body at all and said he is not a regular at the gym. That's fine if you don't want to get too bulky up top but that doesn't mean you don't work out at all. You can do band work, light weight, yoga, pilates, lots of ways to work your body without getting bulky.

 

3. Does not take advice from mentors. He has been told by Brady, Rodgers, pretty much every media person and fan that he needs to take care of his body and not take as many hits. Case Keenum said if he slid he would wear just his jock strap to a meeting and he that was one of the only times he slid this year.

 

4. Plays too much hero ball. This is a mix of him and the OC. It's arm arrogance as they say. Just because you can doesn't mean you should make some of these throws. Instead of taking the wide open RB in the flat, he will try and push the ball down the field even when nobody is open or he will hang on to the ball and scramble. This is not necessary when we are already winning or if it's early in the game. Just hit the RB for 5 yards and live to play another down. I think this is a mental thing and can be fixed. Josh was asked if he ever tried a sports psychologist or hypnotist and he said no.

 

5. Not focused. The year he made his big jump was the COVID year. He was in lockdown in socal with Jordan Palmer and trained every single day and had no distractions. This past off-season he was building his new house and traveling and shooting commercials and did not train in socal. If you check their social media then you can't imagine he was doing much of anything besides golfing and traveling.

 

People on this forum won't like this but there is a book by the greatest player ever at Josh's position and it's more or less a blueprint on how to do it. It's called the TB12 Method and it gives every detail of what he does to be successful. Josh does none of that stuff. He's talented so why bother right? Or does it show that he's just not willing to put in the work?

[NewEra]

Looks to me like Josh has OL PTSD 

 

For good reason. 

[SaulGoodman]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:39 AM, FrenchConnection said:

Cincinnati has QB and two elite receivers on rookie contracts. That’s why they get to have that. They absolutely nailed two drafts in a row by ignoring conventional wisdom and building the skill positions before the lines. Yesterday they proved that OL doesn’t matter at all. Just load up on the fun stuff and get the ball out quick.

It seemed to matter when they almost (should have) lost to Baltimore and Huntley, scoring 17 on offense in the process. 8 QB hits and 4 sacks. 
 

I think it’s fair to assume that the snow limited the pass rush in Buffalo. 

[billieve420]

Anarumo schooled Dorsey who never could get Allen in a rhythm. Allen is partially to blame as well but that is because he is asked to carry team and make those highlight reel plays. We had no counter to what Cincy was doing so plenty of improvement to go around next season. Shame we don't see that level of creativity on defense who let Burrows  do whatever he wanted with little resistance.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2023/lou-anarumo-cincinnatis-defensive-wizard

Edited January 25, 2023 by billieve420

[harmonkillebrew]

Time to build around Josh. Invest in the Offense. 

Everything else is secondary

[Dr.Sack]

Imagine if Allen had a OC for a head coach and 4 Pro Bowl caliber WRs and TE. 

[3rdand12]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Imagine if Allen had a OC for a head coach and 4 Pro Bowl caliber WRs and TE. 

Imagine if Allen had a qualified OC....
Sorry Ken , but you were not ready and still are not. Obviously

[Dr.Sack]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Imagine if Allen had a qualified OC....
Sorry Ken , but you were not ready and still are not. Obviously

Dorsey is 42. We have Sean McVay becoming a HC at age 30 and winning a SB by age 36. Is Dorsey capable of catching up to these younger whipper snappers? 

[Golden]

-69% of the offensive plays, our receivers were covered up.

-Anarumo staggered his blitzes & ran them from deep in their defense causing blitzing players coming in at full speed 

-The Bengals had our o line confused

-Tell me how Josh has regressed 

[AlfaBill]

Anyone who thinks Josh has regressed should go watch lawn bowling as they clearly have no clue as to what they’re talking about. Either that or it’s trolling, and not very good one at that. 

[Meatloaf63]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:51 PM, Ya Digg? said:

So you’re pinning this on Allen? Guys aren’t schemes open, the defense has no teeth, the lines are terrible. Despite all that Allen still had 40+ touchdowns and is the reason they won the division again. His stats were nearly identical to last year, so how exactly did he regress? 
 

He’s the QB so he gets blame for the loss, but name a QB outside of Mahomes and maybe Burrow you would take? If he has regressed you should easily be able to name 5-6 at least (and please name Herbert so it can rip that one to shreds)

He’s ignorantly trolling, should be obvious by now…

[transplantbillsfan]

Shut up. 

 

This offseason is going to suck.

 

Josh Allen has done more with less for 3 or 4 more years than Mahomes and 2 more years than Burrow.

 

Sooo... this was his "down year" (yeah why not disregard elbow injury and Tops and Hyde injury and Miller injury and no Beasley and Davis drops and new OC and 2 major weather issues and Damar and...) and yet Allen had 42 TDs (2 more than Burrow in the same number of games and 3 less than Mahomes in 1 fewer game despite being on the bench for close to 3 full quarters in the Titans and Steelers games) and over 5000 friggin yards!!!! I shouldn't even have to mention how crazy that number is for 16 games!!! 

 

Allen had a down year strictly because of turnovers. Yes, that was a problem. But maybe part of that was gameplan, coaching and offensive talent.

 

As a Bills fan you should worry about everything around Josh Allen at this point. 

9 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

It seemed to matter when they almost (should have) lost to Baltimore and Huntley, scoring 17 on offense in the process. 8 QB hits and 4 sacks. 
 

 

Yep. Hope Frazier is gone. Straw that broke the Camel's back.

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Imagine if Allen had a OC for a head coach and 4 Pro Bowl caliber WRs and TE. 

I can imagine!  We'd still be playing football, and all the kool-aid drinkers that predominate this forum would still be here and participating!

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Imagine if Allen had a OC for a head coach and 4 Pro Bowl caliber WRs and TE. 

A lot of head coach OCs get fired also. That’s one narrative this year that is dumb. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Xwnyer]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:31 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Lol they literally gave him no help and asked him to carry the entire team on his back and he almost did it.

They drafted Cook and traded for Haines yet refused to figure out how to utilize their skills in this offense.  Total disregard for the running game to take pressure off. Coaching is the problem unless the QB is overriding the play calls.  Plus we became way to predictable I would see Davis come in motion and stop near the end of the line and knew it was a run play.  If average football viewers can see what’s coming I am sure DCs and players saw the same on film.  All year folks felt Dorsey was not showing his hand however what we saw is he had a pair of 2’s and nothing else 

[Coach Tuesday]

On 1/23/2023 at 8:26 AM, KDIGGZ said:

This is my opinion and it will upset some people but these are the facts: Josh does not take his job seriously. Here's why...

 

1. No diet plan. Has said he eats whatever he wants and his favorite is Bar Bill wings and beer. That's cool if you are a 40 year old poster on TBD but not cool if you are a world class athlete.

 

2. Does not work out. He said he doesn't lift weights with his upper body at all and said he is not a regular at the gym. That's fine if you don't want to get too bulky up top but that doesn't mean you don't work out at all. You can do band work, light weight, yoga, pilates, lots of ways to work your body without getting bulky.

 

3. Does not take advice from mentors. He has been told by Brady, Rodgers, pretty much every media person and fan that he needs to take care of his body and not take as many hits. Case Keenum said if he slid he would wear just his jock strap to a meeting and he that was one of the only times he slid this year.

 

4. Plays too much hero ball. This is a mix of him and the OC. It's arm arrogance as they say. Just because you can doesn't mean you should make some of these throws. Instead of taking the wide open RB in the flat, he will try and push the ball down the field even when nobody is open or he will hang on to the ball and scramble. This is not necessary when we are already winning or if it's early in the game. Just hit the RB for 5 yards and live to play another down. I think this is a mental thing and can be fixed. Josh was asked if he ever tried a sports psychologist or hypnotist and he said no.

 

5. Not focused. The year he made his big jump was the COVID year. He was in lockdown in socal with Jordan Palmer and trained every single day and had no distractions. This past off-season he was building his new house and traveling and shooting commercials and did not train in socal. If you check their social media then you can't imagine he was doing much of anything besides golfing and traveling.

 

People on this forum won't like this but there is a book by the greatest player ever at Josh's position and it's more or less a blueprint on how to do it. It's called the TB12 Method and it gives every detail of what he does to be successful. Josh does none of that stuff. He's talented so why bother right? Or does it show that he's just not willing to put in the work?

IF all of that is true, he’ll quickly deteriorate like Big Ben did.

[Gregg]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

IF all of that is true, he’ll quickly deteriorate like Big Ben did.

 

If that were all true, he never would have made the NFL in the first place.

[T master]

One game does not make a QB's career . I'm sure if we were to look back you can find games like this for Montanna, Marino, Kelly, Farve, Mahomes, & Brady so i will not go the route you are taking here .

 

There was a lot more to the out come of this game than just Josh ! There is one thing that has been happening ever since Josh has shown the world to be a elite QB is that every time something goes wrong they expect him to pick up the entire team & carry them to the win & he can't do that every single time the team needs that .

 

I can personally remember games where Brady had pressure in his face by a really good D and he sucked those games Josh will be fine !! 

Edited January 26, 2023 by T master

[WNYFAN1]

Was Allen's 2020 regular season performance the high water mark of his career? Time will tell.

[SoCal Deek]

Josh simply needs a coach that tells him to take the open option. It’s not hard! All of the other great QBS have learned to do it. Just watch Mahomes dump it down to Kelce a hundred times per game. The problem is if our coaches are the ones telling him NOT to do it. If that’s the case we have a big problem. 

[John from Riverside]

I mean a dislike doesn’t really say enough about how I feel about this post

[TheFunPolice]

Something is off. Either Dorsey is telling Allen to throw to the wide open guys underneath and he isn't, or he isn't seeing them, or he feels so much pressure to make plays that he throws bombs on 3rd and 2 and we punt instead of moving the chains. 

 

Some say "but that stats!" This year's offense was boom or bust. Some days Allen hit the long balls and ended up with close to 400 yards. Other days when they weren't there it was 150 yards. 

 

Dorsey/Allen together seem to run an offense that's 1, 3, 0, 0, 1, 0, 45, 30, 0, 1, 3, 65, 0, 1, 2, yards

 

We need more consistency to beat the good teams in the playoffs. 

 

We all love Allen, but I worry that he is not listening to the coaches, because I cannot believe for a second that Dorsey or someone on the staff isn't pointing out the wide open guys underneath that he needs to throw to when they review film or even during games on the tablet. 

 

Maybe his buddy OC needs to get fired to send  Josh a message. You haven't figured it all out, and if you want to win you need to listen to us. 

 

Maybe he needs a tough coach who will speak truth. You got your buddy fired because you would not listen. BTW you haven't won jack squat in this league. You haven't even been to a Super Bowl. 

 

Holmgren was a freaking taskmaster with Favre. Maybe Allen needs a coach like that who will get on him when he decides to tune out the coaches. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[RyanC883]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:33 PM, MAJBobby said:

So glad they got run out of the stadium if they were losing. Exposes how bad the construction of this team is. Need a real OL, Real WR2  protect Josh and Give Josh weapons. We have the worst Weapons group in the playoffs this year and one of the worst OLs. Stop spending All you premier assets in Defense. They are irrelevant in the Modern NFL when facing a top end Offense.

 

agreed.  particularly when spending assets on D gets you Basham, overrated Groot (a good complementary DE), and AJ.