SaulGoodman

Wasn’t the Toney Offside call the difference in making the playoffs last year? The margin for error was already pretty thin, and now they’ve lost a ton of quality players. It shouldn’t be a shock if a few people are doubting the Bills.

Anyone but the Chiefs? 😆

Diggs’ production might have fallen off down the stretch, but I’m guessing that he still drew a lot of attention from defenses, making other receivers’ jobs easier.

So…you expected Allen to be the one player on the planet (including Mahomes) who isn’t bashed on social media? 😆

KC Derangement Syndrome?

Weird season for him. A bunch of 100 yd games in the first half, but barely a factor in most games down the stretch.

Seems like Diggs has been sort of waging war with the Bills for a while. Can’t be helping chemistry. Wasn’t there a rumor that Allen hooked up with his girlfriend, or ex or something? There’s definitely been some bad blood there anyway.

I don’t think that’s inconsistent with anything I’ve said. There are a few important factors here. Hollywood Brown can be a game-changer for KC, and Diggs’ decline is huge for the Bills. Maybe he’ll bounce back next season, but we don’t know that. He’s at the age that receivers tend to slow down a little. Kincaid is still mostly potential. He could be better than Kelce within a few years but it would be crazy to say he’s there now. I also expect a solid jump for Rice in year two, and he’s already pretty dangerous. After Rice, there was a massive drop-off to the next most productive/reliable WR. It was important for them to fill that hole and add a third weapon. But as of today, there isn’t much after those three. The ship’s probably sailed on Toney and Moore. Watson makes a pretty good #4 or 5 WR but he’s not a consistent weapon. I’m guessing they’ll draft one in the first.

I’m not sure what happened to Diggs late in the year (injury? Declining?), but if he isn’t significantly better next season, KC’s top three are definitely better. Kelce > Kincaid (anyone who thinks Kelce’s declined significantly should watch the Baltimore game). Rice was much better than Diggs down the stretch and will only be stronger next year. And Brown is better than Samuel.

I'm not basing my argument just on the fact that he contributed little in NE, but it does reinforce the point. If he were a player with obvious ability, he would have been higher than the 5th option on a bad offense. I don't think that's a controversial opinion. Anyone who can hold onto the ball will put up decent numbers with Reid and Mahomes. Hardman had 700 yds a few years ago, and 6 TDs in half a season in '22. In NY, he had 1 reception for 6 yds with 0 TDs. Smith-Schuster hadn't put up good numbers in 4 years when he signed with the Chiefs. He was an injury-plagued player coming off a 129 yd season. Couple that with the fact that he's among the slowest receivers in the league, even at his prime, and it's no surprise that they got him for a bargain. Signing Smith-Schuster and MVS was not a valiant effort to replace Hill's production. I think most people would agree on that. The post I originally responded to argued that KC's made a great effort to provide Mahomes with good WRs. If they traded away their only #1 caliber WR in his prime and didn't make any efforts to sign a #1, with zero first round picks spent on WR in Mahomes' career, how is that a great effort? Rice may well end up being a #1, but nobody in the organization expected that in his rookie year in Reid's offense. Even Hill produced little in his first season. WRs never dominate out of the gate under Reid. He requires them to know too much before trusting them with a large role. I don't think any rational fan would view a few late 2nd round picks and some mediocre/average FA signings as a serious effort to provide Mahomes with a great receiving corps. Of course, we can make excuses about the salary cap, but that's a different argument. I never said I was surprised that they haven't allocated a ton of resources to the position--just that they haven't. If they wanted to, they could obviously devote more resources to WR and less elsewhere. The other aspect is that, even if you want to argue they've made a solid effort, the results have not been very good. And that's all that really matters. Moore looks like a complete bust, Toney was the laughingstock of the league this year, MVS was not very good, Smith-Schuster was average, Hardman's been a big disappointment, Pringle/Watson/etc are JAGs, and Watkins was always injured. And no matter what argument you want to make about their overall efforts, there's no denying that they were criminally negligent last offseason. And many KC fans were saying as much at the time. Banking on Toney and Moore making a huge jump, or a late 2nd round rookie killing it in year 1 in Reid's system was a joke. Granted, I think a lot of receivers can be serviceable in KC's offense as long as they can catch the ball and run decent routes. As it turned out, no one but Rice was able to do either this season.

He was never a true #1 WR. He put up big numbers one year when defenses were keying on Antonio Brown. He was always a slow possession WR. A decent two or three, but far from a legit 1. That's a miniscule contract. What about that suggests "we expect a huge year from this player?" If anything, it proves my point. A 1 year, incentive-laden "prove it" deal that is small even including incentives. Because they knew it was a gamble, and that even if he stayed healthy, he wasn't elite. And if the expectation around the league was that Smith-Schuster would have a very productive year, someone would have paid him much more. Well, one thing's for sure....the poster who said that KC has made major efforts at WR in the Mahomes era was dead wrong. Drafting a few late 2nd rounders and signing mediocre vets isn't an extensive effort to surround Mahomes with great weapons. Particularly by the standards of Bills fans who think that a perfectly solid Bills receiving corps (plus two good TEs) is woefully inadequate for Allen. There's a consistent theme on this board: pretend that Mahomes has had everything and Allen's had nothing. Both are far from accurate.

I think it's very relevant to point out that Smith-Schuster did almost nothing the season after KC. He hasn't been very good for years. Partly due to injuries, but the end result is a mediocre player. Reid and Mahomes made him look better than he is, and it's not like he put up eye-popping numbers. Somebody other than Kelce had to make a play now and then. Bills fans complain that Diggs/Shakir/Davis isn't nearly enough help for Allen. Imagine what they'd say about Smith-Schuster, MVS and Watson. And they'd probably have rioted if the Bills trotted out what KC had at WR last year. No one should have ever expected Smith-Schuster to be a legit #1. He was around #5 on a bad Patriots offense. Wasn't good his last few years in Pitt and was coming off an injury. Banking on that guy to be your #1 is not what I'd call investing in big help for your QB.

Their efforts to add WRs for Mahomes have been pretty weak so far. Hill was on the roster when Mahomes entered the league. He's literally the only above average WR Mahomes has had and they traded him in his prime. Since Hill left they added Juju Smith-Schuster (could barely get on the field for a terrible Pats team this year), MVS (mediocre), Toney (LOL), Justyn Ross (haha), Richie James, Justin Watson, Skyy Moore in the late 2nd round (no one could have actually thought he'd be a #1 caliber WR), and Rashee Rice in the late 2nd. Oh, and they brought back Hardman (who couldn't get on the field for a terrible Jets team). They entered last season banking on Toney, Moore, MVS and a 2nd round rookie. If you're calling that an effort, I'd hate to see a lack of effort. And I don't think anyone would say it was a spectacular effort the previous year in signing Smith-Schuster and MVS.

Probably not, but Watson won't be in the top 4 when the season starts. I'd take KC's top three over Buffalo's though.

LOL. I’ll bet KC’s the only football team to ever have a player who was charged with a crime. That’s totally unheard of in this sport. Also, I’m not sure where anyone got the idea that Chiefs fans badly wanted Samuel. Haven’t seen/heard anyone say that.

Mahomes' defense has allowed 24+ points in half his playoff games and 30+ in almost a third of them. Including two of the Super Bowls.

Ah, you're right. I mis-remembered. Definitely doesn't qualify as an "easy" kick, although Butker rarely misses those.

Not to take away from the game he had, but again, they punted on almost half their possessions. The scoring flurry didn't happen until very late in the game. So obviously the offense and Allen could have done more. It's not like they were facing an elite defense. They were facing a defense with as many or more holes as the one KC faced in January. Sorenson, Niemann, Hitchens and Hughes were massive liabilities and easy for a quality QB to exploit. They didn't "lie down," but they might as well have. Numerous blown coverages, WRs running wide open, and a DB falling down on 4th and 15, leaving Davis high school open for the go-ahead score. Never expected you to say otherwise. You quoted me and I responded.

It's not KC bias if every time you turn on the TV, a national analyst is calling Mahomes the most talented QB ever. Frankly, a lot of the media goes further in praising him than I do.

Why would I make excuses for a win? Just pointing out that he had plenty to overcome in that game and had to be practically flawless. As for January, sure, that missed kick hurt their chances. Never said otherwise. Although a kick in the mid-40s for a weak kicker is different than one of the league’s best missing two chip shots. Most people think Mahomes is a better QB than Allen. You pick and choose when you want to listen to most people. Why would there not be a case for Mahomes winning that game for Buffalo? He’d be facing a weaker defense that repeatedly blew coverage and left Diggs or Davis open by a mile. If you thought they picked on Klein, imagine what Mahomes and better receivers would have done to Sorenson, Niemann, and Hughes.

You seem to think there's nothing more that Allen could have done in that game, but Buffalo punted on about half their possessions (4 of 9). KC punted on 2 of 11. It's Mahomes that had to be nearly flawless, because his defense was blowing coverages constantly and leaving receivers open by a mile. Plus his kicker missed two easy kicks.

And yet he reached the playoffs in his first season with a mediocre roster and Tyrod Taylor. Why is he such a big obstacle in your mind?

My guess is Allen would have a couple SB appearances and maybe one ring. Year by year… 2017 - Allen sits behind Alex Smith 2018 - Still raw and developing, Allen is surrounded by a lot of offensive talent but arguably the worst defense in the league. Probably a pretty solid season but no ring. 2019 - Allen probably would’ve had a good shot at reaching the Super Bowl. 2020 - Allen and the Chiefs host Mahomes and Buffalo in the AFCC. Allen probably wins, then loses to Tampa in the SB. Can’t overcome a third string OL and receivers that drop everything. 2021 - Mahomes wins the 13 seconds game. 2022 - If Allen couldn’t score on the Bengals with Buffalo, he probably wouldn’t have had much luck with a high ankle sprain and a WR corps of MVS, Skyy Moore and Marcus Kemp. 2023 - Allen loses in divisional in Buffalo

I keep seeing Chris Jones mentioned here. If KC, a team in a much better cap situation, can’t afford to keep him (despite clearly viewing it as a priority), how would the Bills be able to? I think it’s a moot point though. Sounds like he’s very close to a deal.

Except for several starters being out this postseason, several injuries to key players last postseason, and their entire OL in 2020. But there is some planning involved in avoiding a rash of injuries. There’s a reason that teams like the Titans and Ravens seem to always have numerous injuries and KC doesn’t.