Should Sean Payton get a phone call?

[chaccof]

Not Peyton, call Frank Reich get him in as OC and Asst. HC.....

[uticaclub]

43 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Cook was great down the stretch in the regular season. 

Was he? Great is a long shot.

[BritishBill]

This reminds me of my beloved Everton FC in the Premier League - perhaps a cautionary tale for some Bills Mafia (apologies for the long-read)

 

Back in 2002 Everton hired a manager (Head Coach to you guys) called David Moyes. He was an up and coming young manager with ginger hair, stern demeanour and a defensive mindset. He took over a club in a mess, with scant financial resources, and started building. 

Over the next decade he took Everton from being a bottom half of the table team, flirting with relegation, to being pretty much always in the top 6 teams in the league and challenging for trophies. He produced miracles in the transfer market, constantly signing young players at just the right time - or rescuing players from the scrap heap and revitalising their careers - turning them into highly sought after world stars and selling them for big profits.

But the thing was, Everton kept falling JUST short of true success. They would get to semi-finals and even finals and find ways to lose. Often, fans would blame Moyes and his negative tactics. In one FA Cup final Everton took the lead after just 27 seconds - but tried to defend for the rest of the match and lost 2-1. 

 

The general outcry from the fans was that Moyes had taken Everton as far as he could - we'd never get to the promised land of a trophy/Champions League qualification because he was just not offensive enough and didn't have what it took to get the team over the line. Eventually, in 2012, he left - to go and manage Manchester United. And a new manager came in - Roberto Martinez. In his first season - building on 10 years of great squad building by Moyes, Martinez's team was brilliant - achieving Everton's best ever points total in the Premier League, and playing some great football. Finally the fans were being proved right - Moyes had been holding the team back - Martinez would lead them to glory. Except he didn't - for all the improvement in our football that first season, the team still only finished 5th in the league.

 

And over the next few years, things declined very quickly. Whilst playing nice attractive football, Martinez simply didn't have what it took in terms of player recruitment. He made some spectacularly bad purchases, and the squad got weaker and weaker, never again getting close to the level Moyes had them. Martinez was eventually sacked, and since then Everton have basically circled the Premier League drain, hiring and firing a series of bad managers (and losing the odd good one to bigger clubs), and making some of the worst recruitment decisions you could ever begin to imagine. Frankly, it's been a long, slow car crash since Moyes left.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to consider the whole picture, when it comes to McDermott. Without a doubt there are super-frustrating things about some of his decisions - including his backing of his DC and OC who have blown in a big way in big playoff games - and to some extent mistakes McDermott and his team have made have probably held this team back from a Superbowl.

But, overall, the journey the Bills have been on since he came in is undeniably a positive one. We are light years away from the tyre fire he inherited, and the way he and his staff have changed the culture and expectation level of the Bills Mafia is incredible. With some obvious exceptions, good recruitment decisions have been made, and will continue to be made. You feel this squad will be there or there abouts in the playoff mix every season. And as long as we're in that mix, hopefully our ducks will line up and that glory year will come.

 

I'm not saying there's not a better coach out there - but just that the grass isn't always greener, and I think it's a massive risk/assumption that someone would just come in and take over and do a much better job. There's as much chance - if not higher - that the next guy takes us backwards rather than getting us over the line and into a Superbowl and winning a Lombardi.

 

Personally, my preference would be to make changes at OC and/or DC and trust McBeane to recruit some of the missing pieces we desperately need this offseason.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, VaMilBill said:

I agree. McD is in a tough situation where Frazier needs to go and we can’t waste Josh’s career waiting for Dorsey to figure it out. Which means two coordinators should probably be gone. 
 

honestly, I think we should give McD two more years with the idea that he hires two new coordinators. 

Agree with this completely. McD and Beane built the Bills into contenders from perennial losers. He needs to hire experienced coordinators w/ proven track records to right this ship as fast as they can while Allen is still in his prime. I know I’ll get ***** for this, but I hope they at least do their due diligence on Greg Roman. Josh needs a stronger running game to take the pressure off of him. Get a couple beast O-Lineman and this offense can look totally different next season. 

[Southern_Bills]

I would have called his agent in the 3rd quarter...lol

[TYSONKO1]

You had me up till the Roman suggestion

[thenorthremembers]

So we are aware that Sean Payton only made it further than Sean McDermott once in his entire career right?  He did that with a better QB than McDermott has right now, correct?

 

Only 1 team can win the Super Bowl.  It sucks, and I am not sure the Bills will ever win one.  But changing for the sake of changing is weak.

[VaMilBill]

4 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Agree with this completely. McD and Beane built the Bills into contenders from perennial losers. He needs to hire experienced coordinators w/ proven track records to right this ship as fast as they can while Allen is still in his prime. I know I’ll get ***** for this, but I hope they at least do their due diligence on Greg Roman. Josh needs a stronger running game to take the pressure off of him. Get a couple beast O-Lineman and this offense can look totally different next season. 

I do worry how Roman would treat Josh. Afraid he would run josh into the dirt and shorten his career. 
 

I think McD knows his seat is hot. He knows he needs movement. If he ties himself to Frazier and maybe even Dorsey, he is going down with them too. 
 

Uncle Rico was fired after one season after McDs first year because he clearly didn’t have the propensity to coordinate a good offense. Hopefully McD realizes this with Josh as well. Josh needs better 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I want the best Bill Belichick give New England Patriots a number one pick I don’t care get him. He is worth it at least the Buffalo Bills will be prepared to play football or you are gone. Bill Belichick is needed after a soft head coach in Sean McDermott with feelings. The Buffalo media won’t be able to play games either Bill Belichick press conferences are gold hire him for the Bills. Ask Bill Belichick if he can coach hockey the Buffalo Sabres need a harder coach than Don Granato in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Man with No Name]

Reich seems like a good idea. BUt i have to wonder how much of the colts success was due to him vs sirianni. 

 

that playoff game vs them was another example where we were outcoached, but Josh won us the ballgame. 

[Rebel101]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I’d be shocked if we fired McDermott, but I think you have to make the phone call off 13 seconds and now this. 

Agreed 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I do worry how Roman would treat Josh. Afraid he would run josh into the dirt and shorten his career. 
 

I think McD knows his seat is hot. He knows he needs movement. If he ties himself to Frazier and maybe even Dorsey, he is going down with them too. 
 

Uncle Rico was fired after one season after McDs first year because he clearly didn’t have the propensity to coordinate a good offense. Hopefully McD realizes this with Josh as well. Josh needs better 

They’re already running Josh into the dirt with the current coordinator. Might as well get production from the running backs while they’re doing it. 

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

So we are aware that Sean Payton only made it further than Sean McDermott once in his entire career right?  He did that with a better QB than McDermott has right now, correct?

 

Only 1 team can win the Super Bowl.  It sucks, and I am not sure the Bills will ever win one.  But changing for the sake of changing is weak.

 

I agree with your point, but the bolded is completely debatable. 

[Man with No Name]

very debatable. there are things brees did a lot better than josh, but there A LOT that josh does that brees couldn't even dream about. 

[Livinginthepast]

18 minutes ago, BritishBill said:

This reminds me of my beloved Everton FC in the Premier League - perhaps a cautionary tale for some Bills Mafia (apologies for the long-read)

 

Back in 2002 Everton hired a manager (Head Coach to you guys) called David Moyes. He was an up and coming young manager with ginger hair, stern demeanour and a defensive mindset. He took over a club in a mess, with scant financial resources, and started building. 

Over the next decade he took Everton from being a bottom half of the table team, flirting with relegation, to being pretty much always in the top 6 teams in the league and challenging for trophies. He produced miracles in the transfer market, constantly signing young players at just the right time - or rescuing players from the scrap heap and revitalising their careers - turning them into highly sought after world stars and selling them for big profits.

But the thing was, Everton kept falling JUST short of true success. They would get to semi-finals and even finals and find ways to lose. Often, fans would blame Moyes and his negative tactics. In one FA Cup final Everton took the lead after just 27 seconds - but tried to defend for the rest of the match and lost 2-1. 

 

The general outcry from the fans was that Moyes had taken Everton as far as he could - we'd never get to the promised land of a trophy/Champions League qualification because he was just not offensive enough and didn't have what it took to get the team over the line. Eventually, in 2012, he left - to go and manage Manchester United. And a new manager came in - Roberto Martinez. In his first season - building on 10 years of great squad building by Moyes, Martinez's team was brilliant - achieving Everton's best ever points total in the Premier League, and playing some great football. Finally the fans were being proved right - Moyes had been holding the team back - Martinez would lead them to glory. Except he didn't - for all the improvement in our football that first season, the team still only finished 5th in the league.

 

And over the next few years, things declined very quickly. Whilst playing nice attractive football, Martinez simply didn't have what it took in terms of player recruitment. He made some spectacularly bad purchases, and the squad got weaker and weaker, never again getting close to the level Moyes had them. Martinez was eventually sacked, and since then Everton have basically circled the Premier League drain, hiring and firing a series of bad managers (and losing the odd good one to bigger clubs), and making some of the worst recruitment decisions you could ever begin to imagine. Frankly, it's been a long, slow car crash since Moyes left.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to consider the whole picture, when it comes to McDermott. Without a doubt there are super-frustrating things about some of his decisions - including his backing of his DC and OC who have blown in a big way in big playoff games - and to some extent mistakes McDermott and his team have made have probably held this team back from a Superbowl.

But, overall, the journey the Bills have been on since he came in is undeniably a positive one. We are light years away from the tyre fire he inherited, and the way he and his staff have changed the culture and expectation level of the Bills Mafia is incredible. With some obvious exceptions, good recruitment decisions have been made, and will continue to be made. You feel this squad will be there or there abouts in the playoff mix every season. And as long as we're in that mix, hopefully our ducks will line up and that glory year will come.

 

I'm not saying there's not a better coach out there - but just that the grass isn't always greener, and I think it's a massive risk/assumption that someone would just come in and take over and do a much better job. There's as much chance - if not higher - that the next guy takes us backwards rather than getting us over the line and into a Superbowl and winning a Lombardi.

 

Personally, my preference would be to make changes at OC and/or DC and trust McBeane to recruit some of the missing pieces we desperately need this offseason.

We could do exactly as you suggest and there would be a good chance that it would be enough to take us over the top. But at the same time can you really convince yourself that McD has ever been the difference by making a brilliant call mid game that has WON us a game? I actually thought this time last year after the KC loss and the 13 seconds debacle that McD singlehandedly created, that the Bills should have onside kicked to KC at the start of overtime and at least attempted to recover the ball to win the game because there was no chance in hell we were going to stop them on defense. But of course McD would never do that in a million years. Would other coaches have the balls to do that? In the end if we are going to win despite McD as we seem to do often do and he doesnt offer us anything with his poor game management, then what is the point for keeping him. I dont think he gets canned because Mcbeane doesnt throw him under the bus but todays loss wasnt just on the Bills being beaten up and undermanned it was on the Bills having no coherent defensive plan, no adjustable offensive plan and not being mentally ready. Its up to McD to get all that ready and today he failed spectacularly.

[thenorthremembers]

10 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

I agree with your point, but the bolded is completely debatable. 

I dont think there is any debate around that at all.  Brees is a top ten Quarterback all time.   Josh hasnt accomplished anything close to Brees.   

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, zevo said:

I mean just stop

Why you still on this coaching staffs hype..you still trusting that process? How about you stop..we just witnessed our team get flat outcoached in the playoffs for the 4th time they have been there

[HOUSE]

I would not be surprised if McDermott is canned.

He is a good coach but some changes are needed just to move to a higher level

time is wasting away....

[Hsker4life]

Should? Yes.

 

Zero chance it happens.

[zevo]

6 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Why you still on this coaching staffs hype..you still trusting that process? How about you stop..we just witnessed our team get flat outcoached in the playoffs for the 4th time they have been there

I’m not. I just know there is a zero chance of it happening. The bills will not be giving up drafts picks for a coach when they love the one they have.

[Mark92]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I’m not ready to dump McDermott yet, but I’m close. I give him a fresh start without Frazier and maybe without Dorsey. 

I am of the same opinion.  I think it's time for a change somewhere.  The defense has good players I just think the scheme is wrong.  

[Rebel101]

2 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

I am of the same opinion.  I think it's time for a change somewhere.  The defense has good players I just think the scheme is wrong.  

No all must go. Start fresh 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Yes. He absolutely should.

Mcd is a good coach. But I don’t think he’s the guy to win a SB

This is what I'm afraid of

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Let's see we have to give a 1st Rounder for him. 

 

Yeah didn't even think about that.  Another reason a hard no for me.  I'm just not much of a Peyton fan. 

 

Different if you're a team like Houston who needs alot of work and isn't going to turn it around in one year.  So giving up a 1st rounder, long term won't help that much.  But the Bills are in a win now situation and need draft picks to replace vets that they no longer can afford to keep

[Mrbojanglezs]

I would 100% be in support of that. So that means definitely not 

[Turbo44]

McDermott has brought a lot of regular season success to Buffalo, something we hadn’t had in a long time. He’s also a man of high character 

 

in saying that I will Never forgive him for the 13 second coaching debacle last year.

 

todays performance in all aspects, including coaching was inexcusable and disgusting.

 

It can be argued that they owe us fans nothing. I say we deserved better in both cases

 

 

[VaMilBill]

28 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

We could do exactly as you suggest and there would be a good chance that it would be enough to take us over the top. But at the same time can you really convince yourself that McD has ever been the difference by making a brilliant call mid game that has WON us a game? I actually thought this time last year after the KC loss and the 13 seconds debacle that McD singlehandedly created, that the Bills should have onside kicked to KC at the start of overtime and at least attempted to recover the ball to win the game because there was no chance in hell we were going to stop them on defense. But of course McD would never do that in a million years. Would other coaches have the balls to do that? In the end if we are going to win despite McD as we seem to do often do and he doesnt offer us anything with his poor game management, then what is the point for keeping him. I dont think he gets canned because Mcbeane doesnt throw him under the bus but todays loss wasnt just on the Bills being beaten up and undermanned it was on the Bills having no coherent defensive plan, no adjustable offensive plan and not being mentally ready. Its up to McD to get all that ready and today he failed spectacularly.

I talked about it in the GDT. But McD is good for one blowout a season. Thought we were over that issue. But today it again reared it’s ugly head. 
 

I still wouldn’t fire him. This is a good team. McD is a good coach. He isn’t the best game day coach. But he usually has his teams ready. I do worry if we fire him we will go back in the tubes. 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’d be shocked if we fired McDermott, but I think you have to make the phone call off 13 seconds and now this. 

 

Everyone talking about firing Leslie - nope.  Not going to happen.  
 

OC - you want this to be a revolving door for the next decade?  
 

O does awesome - OC gets HC job.  Replace. Repeat.  Hope to win a SB in there somewhere.  
 

That’s my problem.  I want my QB as comfortable as possible every year with his offensive staff.  

 

 

The only option for that is a full house cleaning bring in an offensive HC - but I think this regime gets at least one more year.

 

What they did this year can’t be overstated enough.  We would look bad as an organization to just move on from them.  
 

I unfortunately as the OP said easily see it heading that way - it’s almost like with everything they do you still have the impact of 13 seconds hanging over everything.  
 

And the impact of that loss can’t be overstated enough.  

[SCBills]

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Everyone talking about firing Leslie - nope.  Not going to happen.  
 

OC - you want this to be a revolving door for the next decade?  
 

O does awesome - OC gets HC job.  Replace. Repeat.  Hope to win a SB in there somewhere.  
 

That’s my problem.  I want my QB as comfortable as possible every year with his offensive staff.  

 

 

The only option for that is a full house cleaning bring in an offensive HC - but I think this regime gets at least one more year.

 

What they did this year can’t be overstated enough.  We would look bad as an organization to just move on from them.  
 

I unfortunately as the OP said easily see it heading that way - it’s almost like with everything they do you still have the impact of 13 seconds hanging over everything.  
 

And the impact of that loss can’t be overstated enough.  

Can’t be overstated enough. 
 

People can’t just think because it worked with Brady/Belichick, it would work here. 
 

Allen will have a revolving door on offense, while Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence etc all have offensive guys. 
 

If McD’s Defense is utter garbage in the playoffs, then what is the point?  
 

He offers nothing that he hasn’t already given us. 
 

Great man. Built a great program.  I fear he’s reached his apex both functionally as a defensive guy and personally with his coaching style. 
 

Team needs an overhaul on philosophy this off-season.  
 

 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, chaccof said:

Not Peyton, call Frank Reich get him in as OC and Asst. HC.....

Hot take: Frank Reich hasn’t stuck around anywhere long enough for me to trust whether or not he’s a very good OC. 
 

2 bad years in SD. One year out of the playoffs in Philly then another year with Foles. 
 

He wasn’t the issue in Indy. But also a lot of those decisions fall on him…

[Beast]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Payton wants $20M/yr. And has only won 1 SB his entire coaching career. No thanks.

 

I do think we need to move on from Frazier, no question, and give serious consideration to moving on from Dorsey. 

If you’re getting rid of your two coordinators, why would you even consider keeping your HC?

[Thrivefourfive]

If the Bills want to win a Super Bowl.. 

 

He was said he values ownership as much as anything else in his search. Get this done Pegula.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Rebel101 said:

Agreed 

And the San Diego Peterman statt.  Houston's blow up. The chiefs game a few years ago unprepared crushed. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

It can be argued that they owe us fans nothing. I say we deserved better in both cases

 

They owe you fans their entire careers. In the case of a guy like McDermott, that also means his life.  His job is his life.

Without fans there is no NFL and the 7 figure salaries go bye-bye.

 

Then it's back to being a 7th grade gym teacher for most of these guys.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Nextmanup

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Yes. He absolutely should.

Mcd is a good coach. But I don’t think he’s the guy to win a SB

Mcd is stability for the franchise.  He needs o line and reciever takent , but if he doesn’t get fresh coordinators , things will keep failing in the postseason.  We are well behind younger staffs now in cincy , maybe Miami , and Reid is way beyond offensively.  Then look at San Fran and the Eagles and we were not a SB contender.  You need a guy ,Ike Mcd to create culture / stability , but creativity is lacking with the coordinators and it shows with embarrassing losses in the playoffs.  You see a franchise like San Fran who gets it , 3/4 years in the championship game with Purdy at qb , and we can’t even sniff a chance to get there.  Wasted a 14-4 season and next years schedule looks brutal on the road.  Beane needs to get Mcd help. Frazier had his chances. Dorsey had one or two innovative or trick plays in a year : Reid does them weekly.  Says a lot. 

[Success]

I'm a hypocrite, because I started a thread praising McD, which got bumped today.

 

This is McCarthy/Rodgers all over again.  The Pack lost out on multiple Super Bowls, while Rodgers made his coaches look good and led them to winning seasons.

 

Winning a SB is a whole different animal. If you go back through history, very few average coaches have won a ring. I think McD has a lot of strengths, but this is 3 years in a row now.

 

Probably won't happen.  I think he'll probably be here for the long haul. But it's definitely a fear that this is what we'll get - great regular seasons, and early playoff exits.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’d be shocked if we fired McDermott, but I think you have to make the phone call off 13 seconds and now this. 

 

I dont want McDermott fired but i want him to be HC/DC and Payton as OC.

 

dont know if Payton would except that role but i think it would do wonders for our offense and Allen.

 

 

Also want Greg Roman as run game designer.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Is the ink dry on the Jim Schwartz to the Browns contract?

On top of the playoff failures, the other large disaster has been the mid-season collapse of the team in two consecutive seasons. Our in-ability to have one dominant 14-2 or 15-2 season has cost us the 1 seed in multiple years now. And it's not necessarily about the bye week and home field. It's about getting to play the lowest remaining seed in the divisional round. For two straight years now the Bills had to beat either the Chiefs or the Bengals in the divisional round before even advancing to the conference championship weekend. They have failed twice. Meanwhile, KC gets an easier path this year. I do think the Bengals will beat them though. 

[Malazan]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’d be shocked if we fired McDermott, but I think you have to make the phone call off 13 seconds and now this. 

 

He should get more than call. You need to schedule the interview, have the interview then tell him he's hired. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

McDermott has brought a lot of regular season success to Buffalo, something we hadn’t had in a long time. He’s also a man of high character 

 

in saying that I will Never forgive him for the 13 second coaching debacle last year.

 

todays performance in all aspects, including coaching was inexcusable and disgusting.

 

It can be argued that they owe us fans nothing. I say we deserved better in both cases

 

 

This will boil down to 2 things.

1. We're content with winning enough regular season games to make the playoffs.  Then watch McShottenheimer's defense flame out. 

Or

2. Find a dynamic offensive HC who appreciates the value of surrounding Josh with great offensive talent. We're never sniffing a SB putting a failed defense ahead of giving JA weapons.