Bills trade for Nyheim Hines

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think too many fans are taking the Spotrac "Market Value" of $5.3M per on a 3-year deal as cut in stone.

I'm on Spotrac a lot and they can be a good basis for a player's value.  I can also say that when it comes to RBs they can

be off by a lot compared to other positions.  I personally I see that number lower.

 

Another thing that's brutal is this.  If Motor's touches are reduced, for whatever reason going forward this year, I can see

that number going down even further than I currently estimate.  When it comes to a RB 2nd contract, it's seeming to me it's all

about the guaranteed money and how it is structured.

 

Then again, lots of GMs want players from the top teams and pay crazy for the chance to get them.  I have to believe that whatever

Beane would offer (if an offer is given) will make Motor test the market.  Another reason for the Hines trade, IMO.

there are just soooo many running back options on the market next year. A huge number. Will be hard to project how free agency will shake out. 

[1st&ten]

He looks pretty fast in the youtube video.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

53 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Could be pass protection.

 

McDermott also made a comment about his practice habits. 

 

For whatever reason they've made it clear with their actions all season long they don't trust him yet to have a major role in the offense.

 

Come January they want players on the field they know they can trust, not "well I hope he grows into it by then."

 

They can still be excited about his long term prognosis.

If that’s true then why was Zack Moss ever on the field for the Bills.

 

But I guess that’s how you get to Frank Gore playing over Singletary in a Playoff game or Emmanuel Sanders starting over Gabe Davis. 

[ArtVandalay]

He's a perfect fit for this offense.  Football especially is about finding the right players to fit your system. 

 

He's spent his career in Colts teams with old statue QBs and teams stacking the run. He now moves to an offense that faces the most light boxes in the league (our just about) surg a mobile QB. He's going to have so much more open space its not funny. The mismatches splitting him out are going to be a nightmare. 

 

This is going to give teams fits covering him out of the backfield while ALSO accounting for Allen's running ability. 

 

He's so much more athletic than Singletary its not funny, and he's ready for a major pass catching roles unlike Cook.

 

Although Hines is a bit player, he's the perfect bit player for this offense and we were missing this role.  Blazing fast receiving back. 

 

 

 

My goodness, add this to the mix???

 

He's not a star, but he's a role player that plays a specific role as well as you can. 4.38 speed. 

[Beck Water]

49 minutes ago, finn said:

What did he say about his practice habits?

 

The reporter said he wanted to ask about James Cook, who had a really productive game on less than 10 touches in that game.  Asked what did you think of his performance and how much trust has Cook built with you after his work in practice and now what he's putting on tape in games?  (one of those "leading questions" that imply the desired answer)

 

McD said he's had a "normal rookie start" with highs and lows and he's pushed through it and his teammates have helped him.  Went on to say, that what Cook has done best, is that his practice habits have improved and that he's carried that over to games..that he's starting to see that every little detail matters and that the results come from the margins in such a close and highly competitive game that we play, that you've got to be on your game every week and you've got to prepare that way every day. 

 

Cook had a very productive game - 76 yds from scrimmage on 5 carries and 1 reception, but I don't quite think that was the endorsement or praise that was expected but whaddo I know.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[finn]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Let's not kid ourselves. Our OL isn't going to suddenly learn how to run block. If I have a faster, more reliable rb to throw checkdowns to, sign me up. We have to incorporate more RB throws as part of our "run game".

Especially if teams continue to take away the deep ball. The Bills seem to realize that they're good deep, but the short game depends on Singletary, who's reliable but not explosive, McKenzie, who is adequate at best, and two rookies. That's ok but not great, and Allen would have needed to continue running more than the team wants. Picking up a reliable, explosive veteran to upgrade a key part of the short game for a sixth-round pick and a player on the inactive list sounds like a good plan. 

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

That’s illegal 

No one will expect it. 

[Hsker4life]

This trade is given a B+ grade for Buffalo, which is the 2nd highest grade out of any other deal. 
 

The highest grade was an A-, given to Denver for what they received in exchange for Chubb.
 

 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/nfl-trade-grades-judging-2022-deadline-deals

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, finn said:

Especially if teams continue to take away the deep ball. The Bills seem to realize that they're good deep, but the short game depends on Singletary, who's reliable but not explosive, McKenzie, who is adequate at best, and two rookies. That's ok but not great, and Allen would have needed to continue running more than the team wants. Picking up a reliable, explosive veteran to upgrade a key part of the short game for a sixth-round pick and a player on the inactive list sounds like a good plan. 

yup- great horizontal speed underneath and can turn vertical quickly. 

[Scott7975]

46 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Wow.  That would be One Quick Study.

 

 

I imagine it would mostly be punt returns.  Maybe a couple package plays for him.  Doesnt take much to learn that.

[Tanoros]

38 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Shouldn’t there have to be a TD to call it the Jet Sweep TD?

I believe he is referencing the jet sweep td by McKenzie in the Packers game. The jet sweep in the video by Hines has a similar look, Eric’s trying to say Hines might be doing some McKenzie stuff. 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

Isn’t Hines salary twice Singletarys? That seems unsustainable for a backup RB / role player. Feels like a 1 year rental.

Oh good call. Unsure if Spotrac isn’t updated, but they are reporting zero dead money the next two years. 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

Isn’t Hines salary twice Singletarys? That seems unsustainable for a backup RB / role player. Feels like a 1 year rental.

 

Agree...I don't see the Bills paying that much for an RB and if they were to do that, I would be surprised if they didn't give that money to Singletary and draft another RB.

[ColoradoBills]

26 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

there are just soooo many running back options on the market next year. A huge number. Will be hard to project how free agency will shake out. 

 

Someone recently posted that (it may have been you) so I went onto Spotrac and I was shocked.  After I saw that I started to think Motor

may sign a team friendly contract to avoid that mess.  Now with the Hines trade I'm totally unsure about all this RB stuff.

Like you said, how it "shakes out" in the whole league is anyone's guess.

[Captain Hindsight]

39 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

6 fumbles in 5 years?

That’s more than I’ve had. We should be worried 😧

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, PayDaBill$ said:

I don’t think this acquisition has anything to do with Cook.  I see it as serving multiple purposes.

 

1. Swapped for a seldom used & bad fit - Moss.

2. Special teams PR / KR

3. Insurance if DS should become injured.

4. Allows Dorsey to give DS a blow occasionally or use these backs in any combo for a new offensive wrinkle.

Beane & McD love high character hard nosed guys.

 

 

 

I totally agree and now we have Singletary, Cook and Hines who can all catch out of the backfield but the speed of Hines has to make our OC salivate a little bit. I don't feel like this was a trust issue with Cook as he seemed to be getting the ball more and making the most of his touches imo.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Long day at work

 

Nice job by Beane.  Traded away a guy that was going to get cut at the end of the year for a player that may produce this year.  Well done.  

[JerseyBills]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agree...I don't see the Bills paying that much for an RB and if they were to do that, I would be surprised if they didn't give that money to Singletary and draft another RB.

Absolutely.  They must not trust the rookie Cook and get rid of a useless RB in Moss and a 6th rder for a legit RB2 in a SB or Bust year. 

Likely a half year rental but I agree that Cook can't be trusted in big moments, with his early fumbles. Might as well grab a vet and not risk it

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

he’s good insurance in case of injury at RB

 

I think he's good insurance at a couple of positions in case of injury.  We'll see how it plays out as Hines gets integrated into the offense.  I think he'll start out receiving punts, and then work his way into a solid role on offense, possibly about the same as the 30% of the snaps he saw in Indy but with more touches there.

 

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

I genuinely think it’s as much about mckenzie as cook if talking about what “hole” they may be trying to fill. 
kick returner? Check. 
slot receiver capable of a pretty full route tree? Yup.

3rd down back and potential gadget runner? Sure thing. 
Plus if a back is hurt they have a vet that can pick up slack in a more traditional role.

 

TBH I think both of these moves (Hines and Marlowe) are about depth after injuries plus a hedge against rookies that may not have won much trust yet with the coaches as with the fans.

 

I think the hole they need to fill on offense is actually Crowders - the guy with the broken bone?

 

Starting the season, the Bills had McKenzie and Crowder splitting snaps in the slot, with McKenzie the "You Will Eat Dust" guy and Crowder the "I will find space and get open" guy.  They had Crowder receiving punts.

 

I think they're not 100% sold on Shakir fielding punts.  He's gone back for 8 in 3 games, with 3 wave-offs and a semi-muff that left us at the 4 yd line vs KC, then 1 nice return and 3 FC.  That's a mixed bag.   McDermott doesn't have the "EASY" button to push and put Hyde at PR this season.

 

After Shakir got a start with McKenzie out, he seems to have gone back to his earlier snap count of ~25% of offensive snaps (McK getting about 50%).  I could be wrong, but I think a significant number of Shakir's snaps have been outside with Diggs in the slot and against more physical DBs I don't think that went too well.

 

Anyway, Crowder's is the vacant role, Shakir has been filling it, and I don't think the Bills want to count on his development to be on the pace they need. 

 

Time will tell and I could be wrong.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[HerdMentality]

What's the condition that turns this into a 5th rounder?? I'm going to assume it converts.

[zow2]

Lots of Singletary talk here but i don’t see anything changing for this season.  And to be honest all i care about right now is this season.  They will need Motor to be playing well if they want a good crack at the Lombardi trophy. and of course Hines will be given touches, i think Cook will be inactive here and there, barring injuries.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

He can return kicks, line up in the slot, has the speed and elusiveness to run gadget plays....  Seems like he has a lot of the same skill set as McKenzie.  Makes me wonder if there is a wide receiver out there on the street we could sign, maybe someone who has been injured, it would allow us to cut him to make room.  Sometimes feel as if coaches have lost faith in McKenzie and could move on.

 

I think fans have lost more faith in McKenzie than coaches.  But we'll see.

[familykwi]

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Dolphins beat us by 2 at home with us missing 5 offensive linemen and our entire starting secondary.  They really need some coverage linebackers kind of odd seeing them go pass rusher 

If you can acquire a quality pass rushers, you do it!  They don't grow on trees and they aren't available that often.

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Absolutely.  They must not trust the rookie Cook and get rid of a useless RB in Moss and a 6th rder for a legit RB2 in a SB or Bust year. 

Likely a half year rental but I agree that Cook can't be trusted in big moments, with his early fumbles. Might as well grab a vet and not risk it

 

Geez, the guy fumbled 1 time, in his first game, now it's "fumbles".  You guys are a tough crowd.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

That's a TD with Josh throwing it

[familykwi]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think he's good insurance at a couple of positions in case of injury.  We'll see how it plays out as Hines gets integrated into the offense.  I think he'll start out receiving punts, and then work his way into a solid role on offense, possibly about the same as the 30% of the snaps he saw in Indy but with more touches there.

 

 

TBH I think both of these moves (Hines and Marlowe) are about depth after injuries plus a hedge against rookies that may not have won much trust yet with the coaches as with the fans.

 

I think the hole they need to fill on offense is actually Crowders - the guy with the broken bone?

 

Starting the season, the Bills had McKenzie and Crowder splitting snaps in the slot, with McKenzie the "You Will Eat Dust" guy and Crowder the "I will find space and get open" guy.  They had Crowder receiving punts.

 

I think they're not 100% sold on Shakir fielding punts.  He's gone back for 8 in 3 games, with 3 wave-offs and a semi-muff that left us at the 4 yd line vs KC, then 1 nice return and 3 FC.  That's a mixed bag.   McDermott doesn't have the "EASY" button to push and put Hyde at PR this season.

 

After Shakir got a start with McKenzie out, he seems to have gone back to his earlier snap count of ~25% of offensive snaps (McK getting about 50%).  I could be wrong, but I think a significant number of Shakir's snaps have been outside with Diggs in the slot and against more physical DBs I don't think that went too well.

 

Anyway, Crowder's is the vacant role, Shakir has been filling it, and I don't think the Bills want to count on his development to be on the pace they need. 

 

Time will tell and I could be wrong.

So, put Cook and Hines on the field and let one motion to a slot area.

That could be fun!

[Victory Formation]

I love Singletary! If they let him walk I’ll be disappointed. Motor is more of a power back anyways, I see Hines & Cook as one of the same though.

[C.Biscuit97]

Part of me really wants to see what Cook can do but Hines is really solid.

and I know everyone hates Moss but the Colts get a former 3rd rounder and a pick for a cap dump. Fair trade all around. 

[JerseyBills]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Geez, the guy fumbled 1 time, in his first game, now it's "fumbles".  You guys are a tough crowd.

I just think the staff is playing it safe and looking at the playoffs and don't want to strictly rely on a rookie in that environment

 

They were able to retain a veteran rental on a rb2/3rd down RB for a 6th rder and useless RB

 

Why else would they do this on a pass heavy offense??

Edited November 2, 2022 by JerseyBills

[NickelCity]

Big Hines fan. Wasn't on my radar but I'm stoked. 

[NoSaint]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think fans have lost more faith in McKenzie than coaches.  But we'll see.

he was benched last year and might have been playing better at the time without going back to refresh my memory of the games prior. 
 

he’s super fast and can make plays but gosh I can’t think of another player that’s had more disasters per touch in recent memory 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Does not really mean anything for Motor and Cook other than more competition.  Hines has no guaranteed money after this year.  Bills can keep one, two or all three of them, whichever they like and can afford.  For example,  I can see them restructuring Hines, give him some guaranteed money and signing Motor too.  Cook will still be pretty cheap.  They have lots of options.  So I love this, even if Hines proves to be only a rental, a 5th/6th is not too high a price.  Moss is no give at all.

[billieve420]

50 minutes ago, Mango said:

Oh good call. Unsure if Spotrac isn’t updated, but they are reporting zero dead money the next two years. 

Yes so this could just effectively be a rental for the season so I like trade for the Bills. Contract can always be restructured if Hines plays well and team wants to keep him around. I don’t foresee him carrying the ball a ton but see him making bigger impact in the passing game over Cook. Ability to play special teams is another bonus.

[gtw3]

A few rhetorical questions about the trade:

 

Did we get better?     Undoubtedly, Yes.

Did we sell the farm to get better?  Absolutely not.

 

This is a win of a trade, even if we do still have a log jam and some redundancy at RB.   Hines is an upgrade and makes us more dangerous.

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Hines is only 25 too.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, MarlinTheMagician said:

Hines is only 25 too.

 

Basically 26 but yeah, he’ll be here a few years.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Fans want McKenzie off the field because he’s an incredible spaz at times and makes way too many mental mistakes… not sure about you but I’m holding my breath every time he has the ball in his hands/is targeted.

 

I don’t trust that guy in a big moment in a playoff game or SB.

 

 

Now don't categorize all fans that way...........I got home from the game Monday and I had a notification from screwball going by @MasterStrategist calling me out after McKenzie put up a spectacular 14 yards on two touches.    Man that gameday thread is a den of idiocy. 😂

 

I am a known scoffer of RB impact and the idea of a RB being "another WR" on the field............but Nyheim Hines is electric and far more coordinated than the stiff, hard-handed Lil' Dummy.   No, he's not a $10M/year slot receiver either but the price was right and he gives them more versatility and gets a rookie and hopefully McKenzie off the field on special teams.    He's also just quicker and more elusive in pass routes than James Cook.   Cook is closer to a volume carry RB than him.  They are not redundant, IMO.

[Shake_My_Head]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

LOL.  Even though the ref called that a good catch, he didn't get both feet in bounds.   Nice route and tracking of the ball, though.

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

All great points here. 
 

But regardless of whatever holes Hines might address or not, I think Dorsey wants to create an entirely new dimension for his offense. I think that explains the interest in certain types of RBs like McKissic, McCaffery, and Kamara. 

SPEED Kills!

[HappyDays]

Reading through the thread, do the people who are negative about this trade realize we literally just gave up a 6th round pick? If we draft a player in the 6th round and cut him after training camp no one bats an eye. Even if Hines is somehow a complete bust for us we don't lose anything worthwhile, we just cut him after the season for $0 dead cap. We might as well have gotten Hines for free. Hell I'll trade the 6th round pick just for the privilege of knowing I will NEVER again watch Zack Moss singlehandedly kill one of our drives.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I am confused by this take (not only by you, but many others).

 

Hines' cap hits next two years are $4.8m and $5.5m, and unless I am missing something he can be cut for free. At the same time, I'd be really surprised if Singletary gets better deal from any team. I am pretty sure we can keep Devin for $10.3m cap hit in the first two years pf his future contract.

 

So why exactly are you so sure that we will keep a RB who has not take a single snap as Bills RB over Singletary who we drafted and our QB clearly loves him?

I agree.  I think how the rest of the year plays out will carry some weight into who we keep in 2023.  I think it’s 50/50 atm .  Let the competition begin