HappyDays Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Last night is not a good game to judge Edmunds on. We drafted him to cover a wide range in the middle of the field, not thump RBs that make it to the second level. In a perfect world you'd like a MLB that can do both, but if you're only going to get one take the pass coverage every time. Edmunds has fulfilled that role well this year. I'm not going to get on his case in a game where we happily conceded 5 YPC because we knew every run was increasing our win probability, and I say that as someone that has been critical of him over the past couple years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Will be very surprised if he's still here next year; he shouldn't be. Yeah, his price may indeed have become too high. Hopefully he gives us a hometown discount the way Milano did. I'm guessing he does, but no way to be sure, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsforumsucks Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Did he get credit for a tackle on the whiff to push the RB out of bounds and then the RB went another 8 yards and stepped out? I cannot remember a single play he actually made last night. I can remember at least 15 times he could not read the run and watched the RB go by and is just standing there confused. Milano ran side to side and drilled the RB for no gain, THAT ply I remember and the INT. Edmunds needs to tackle low on RB, he is too small to tackle by the shoulders and he cannot hit. He has played great this year until last night, last night looked like a different player out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, his price may indeed have become too high. Hopefully he gives us a hometown discount the way Milano did. I'm guessing he does, but no way to be sure, of course. He's not coming down from 14 to 10M. I think he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: He's not coming down from 14 to 10M. I think he's gone. $14 to $10M not happening? Yeah, I think you're right about that. But if he comes down to probably $13M or $14M, somewhere in that area, the Bills would likely be thrilled and would do their best to grab him. If he insists on market value of probably $16 - $18M, he'll almost certainly be gone. Edited November 1, 2022 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I know I'm in the minority, but I'll be happy when the Bills extend him-- and I believe they will. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Green Bay's 1st drive out of the half provided a great look at both LBs struggling in the run game. 30+ yard run to Aaron Jones where Edmunds got blocked up. 20+ yard run to AJ Dillon where Milano over-pursued and totally missed his gap. The difference is you'll see a ton of complaining about Edmunds on that play and nothing about Milano on the next play. Edmunds will likely get paid by the Bills. They drafted him in the first right after Josh. If they needed to replace his skill set, they'd have to spend another 1st. They're all about drafting and retaining. That's not going to change in the case of their star LB. They'll make room and keep both these LBs together. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Virgil said: You forgot the 5 yard piggy back ride he gave the Packers player I like piggy back rides, Virg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Give Milano an extension and try to tag and trade Edmunds. a first round off ball lb needs to be good against the run and pass if he’s going to get a big second contract. Edmunds is so obviously bad against the run. I can think of 5 plays off the top of my head where he was horrible on Sunday night. If you want to say he’s good in the passing game that’s fine. But you can get a specialist in the later rounds. 1st round and big extensions are for complete players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think Edmunds has had a terrific season so far. I didn't think Sunday Night was his best game.... but that is probably inevitable in that type of contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Green Bay's 1st drive out of the half provided a great look at both LBs struggling in the run game. 30+ yard run to Aaron Jones where Edmunds got blocked up. 20+ yard run to AJ Dillon where Milano over-pursued and totally missed his gap. The difference is you'll see a ton of complaining about Edmunds on that play and nothing about Milano on the next play. Edmunds will likely get paid by the Bills. They drafted him in the first right after Josh. If they needed to replace his skill set, they'd have to spend another 1st. They're all about drafting and retaining. That's not going to change in the case of their star LB. They'll make room and keep both these LBs together. milano was the best player on the field Sunday night. Edmunds was the worst. Edited November 1, 2022 by Rock-A-Bye Beasley 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said: milano was the best player on the field Sunday night. Edmunds was the worst. 3 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said: Give Milano an extension and try to tag and trade Edmunds. a first round off ball lb needs to be good against the run and pass if he’s going to get a big second contract. Edmunds is so obviously bad against the run. I can think of 5 plays off the top of my head where he was horrible on Sunday night. If you want to say he’s good in the passing game that’s fine. But you can get a specialist in the later rounds. 1st round and big extensions are for complete players. Oh, please. Again, the Bills were averaging six-man boxes. That means the Pack averaged a man advantage on those plays. Blaming their run problems on Edmunds is nonsense. They were thrilled when the Pack ran, kept the clock moving and took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Green Bay's 1st drive out of the half provided a great look at both LBs struggling in the run game. 30+ yard run to Aaron Jones where Edmunds got blocked up. 20+ yard run to AJ Dillon where Milano over-pursued and totally missed his gap. The difference is you'll see a ton of complaining about Edmunds on that play and nothing about Milano on the next play. Edmunds will likely get paid by the Bills. They drafted him in the first right after Josh. If they needed to replace his skill set, they'd have to spend another 1st. They're all about drafting and retaining. That's not going to change in the case of their star LB. They'll make room and keep both these LBs together. Nobody expects Edmunds to be perfect. Milano made plays later in the game. Edmunds did not. Those of us who are Edmunds skeptics have praised his play up until GB. Why can't the Edmunds apologists criticize him when he plays poorly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 This is what they want him to do. I value Edmunds, but not sure they are going to pay him what he can earn elsewhere. So Rockpile, I agree with you I see his role. He’s even making some of the splash plays we’ve been hoping for the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Beane has some very tricky salary cap work to do next off season as they build for the future. There are a ton of guys that are due, some big, some immediate, some role players. I think their success as a team will largely have an effect on what happens for many of these guys. Not for Edmunds. As much as this fan base (myself included) get frustrated by the style of play that @Shaw66 illudes to, Edmunds is their guy. Like Beane has said time and time again. They draft, develop and retain their own. I have no clue about the money, and with big names like Poyer, Eddy O, Gabe Davis and Singletary needing need deals either this year or next, plus other part time guys like Phillips, Lawson, and Quessenbury, it becomes tricky to keep all the pieces. Make no mistake about it though. He is a pillar of this team and defense, they will do everything they can to keep him here and maintain their defensive prowess with him roaming in the middle. It just means some of those priority role players walk. Edited November 1, 2022 by EmotionallyUnstable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Nobody expects Edmunds to be perfect. Milano made plays later in the game. Edmunds did not. Those of us who are Edmunds skeptics have praised his play up until GB. Why can't the Edmunds apologists criticize him when he plays poorly? Because there's not that much evidence yet that he did. The same people who generally see him doing badly see it this time too. That's more about confirmation bias than anything else. When and if more neutral folks come in with the same opinion, particualarly after a deep dive after the All-22 comes out, I'll start to believe it. As for not making plays in the second half, I just quick watched the third quarter and one play beyond. Edmunds had five tackles including one really nice one where he held the edge against an OL, forced the back inside, threw off the OL and made the tackle. One missed tackle on a swing pass that I didn't like, but he played just fine, it looked like to me. It was interesting, they seemed to be playing him a step or two deeper than usual. That would tie in with a deeper focus on defending the pass and not worrying if they ran. Edited November 1, 2022 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think people see the measurables and have very high expectations of him, and then you watch the tape and see him regularly whiff or make the wrong read, or be unable to shed blockers and disappointment sets in. Compared to what we want him to be, i'd say his instincts are not what we hoped for. Not that he' a bad player, or that he's not doing exactly what he's asked to do but we want him to be elite, and I'm not sure he'll ever be THAT guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 “Couldn’t find” a single Edmunds thread?? this is a joke right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 He could be gone by 4pm today, I wish him well .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Roquan Smith had a terrible day against pollard and Dallas. Devin white had a horrible game against Baltimore Bobby Wagner got gashed run and pass in San Fran. It happens. As mentioned earlier the D line didn’t exactly do their jobs either. to be fair I think the d line was still being told to get up field o effect potential passing, even if it allowed the backs to get to the second level more often. the whole second half was don’t let Rodgers get comfortable even if it costs us a yard or two on the ground 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 59 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Nobody expects Edmunds to be perfect. Milano made plays later in the game. Edmunds did not. Those of us who are Edmunds skeptics have praised his play up until GB. Why can't the Edmunds apologists criticize him when he plays poorly? Milano made some plays, he also missed plays in the run game. I watched the game again. They both had some issues , but Edmunds is the whipping boy, not Milano. Anyone notice Milano has terrible hands. He finally caught one that hit his hands. Early in the game Edmunds gifted Milano an interception, but Milano couldn’t make the play. He missed gaps that night too. Some of us get Edmunds is this year’s whipping boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I agree with the OP 100%. I started a thread "Tremaine Must Remain" - and it got a lot of love and a lot of flames. Lots of knowledgable fans on both sides. I respect the "he's JAG" posters, but I will never understand them. I see what Tremaine does and I know the game well enough to know that I am not imagining things. On the other hand, I also see some of the things the haters post about. Personally, I sure hope we re-sign him and I would make it an absolute top priority. It is almost like Tremaine is not one player, it is "Edmunds and Milano" considered together. They operate as a unit. Together they are unique in taking away the middle of the field in what has become a passing-dominated game. Edited November 1, 2022 by MarlinTheMagician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I'm guilty of at the same time assessing his play and also figuring out the math on signing with Buffalo again. He is going to want to be paid as a top 3 LB if not the highest. If he was brought back at the 10th highest I'm not sure many on this board would be opposed. However I think only a few people on here if any see him as a top 3 LB in this league. I guess Beane and McD will have to decide is it worth paying him top dollar for what he does do for the team. A five year extension doesn't even get him to age 30. They have the chance to lock up a captain and centerpiece of the defense for another half decade of his peak years. If they do who goes? You probably lose both Hyde and Poyer which at their age and coming off injuries seems inevitable now. Restructure Allen, White, Morse, and Miller and there probably is enough to sign Edmunds and play Oliver on his 5th year extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I just didn't think it was fair that the Bills made him dress up for Halloween the way they did. It was clever, but nobody else was dressed up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 8 hours ago, klos63 said: Did you think the Dline gave him the help he needed to make tackles closer to the line of scrimmage. Looks like our dline was getting manhandled and Jones was at full speed by the time he passed the line. Nope they didn’t. I’m not saying it was just his fault. But I don’t think he had a good game at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 10 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I know that sounds stupid Well you nailed it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: That's exactly how I feel. He's a tall dime coverage strong safely. And he always has been. Which is fine and fits the defense we play (2 LBs, nickel coverage, stop the big play). He does that job well. And it works for the Bills. It's just frustrating to watch him defend the run, so often taking the wrong angle, not being able to shed blocks, missing tackles, etc. Milano (a former college safety) plays much more like a traditional LB than Edmunds, IMO (stronger tackler, better at diagnosing running plays, more active in coverage/INTs). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I don't want to make him the highest-paid linebacker in football and I also want to keep him around. He has too much natural talent to let it go, but only if the price is right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Shaw and others, What do you mean credit? What do you want average Bills fans to do? Milano gets "more love" because we see him flash across the screen for interceptions and sacks and tackles for loss. Tremaine is having his best year, and he's productive. Of course, right now, the Bills don't have anyone proven behind him to replace him. So if he doesn't come back it will hurt the defense. Overall, I don't think he's become the force the team envisioned, but at the same time, he's been a starter now for 5-years and nobody has taken his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruffalo Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, Roundybout said: I don't want to make him the highest-paid linebacker in football and I also want to keep him around. He has too much natural talent to let it go, but only if the price is right. This is how I feel. He's decent at run defense and he's great to excellent in coverage. He probably hasn't lived up to draft status (big ask anyways) but he's been an important piece of the defense and he's effective in the role he's being asked to do. I don't know if I pay him top 3 money, but he deserves a decent contract though and somebody will pay him if the Bills opt not to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Rotary Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I can’t figure him out. I think he’s good because his role is so central, the defense is great and the front office knows what it’s doing. I’m perplexed by the lack of splash plays and it seems like every other game or so we get a disturbing optic like the unfortunate piggy back ride. And for what it’s worth, I love a good Edwards thread and look forward to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification. We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's. He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot. Santayana is laughing his ass off right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said: LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification. We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's. He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot. Santayana is laughing his ass off right now. The Bills ran him out also because they thought 31 was getting old. I think the overarching reason for all our players leaving back then was they were cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Underscore_ Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I’m in the camp that wishes Edmunds made more splash plays but should be given credit for righteously doing his “1 of 11”. If it were up to me, I would keep him. Here’s my question for the rest of you though – from both “pro” and “con” camps… Given: For the past four or five years, the Bills have been playing smart, strong defense. and: The defense is more scheme-based than relying on freak talent. and: Edmunds calls the plays for said defense. then: Might it not be true that his value to the coaches/organization might be (at least partially) from the neck up? I'm not the most knowledgeable football guy, but it seems to me that the strength of the defense is that it rarely makes egregious mental errors. A "good" (if unspectacular) player who makes sure everyone else is in a position to succeed is worth more than a stat-line. So here's my question: how much impact does the "quarterback of the defense" make? (not a loaded question, I'm seriously asking) Edited November 1, 2022 by _Underscore_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bills Fan Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 He is constantly in the wrong hole. Too upright and gets run over. Esp. Obvious this last week. Jones dragged him 5 yards for a first down. Best thing he does is get in the way in pass coverage. I guess that’s enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iverwig Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Dopey said: Milano made some plays, he also missed plays in the run game. I watched the game again. They both had some issues , but Edmunds is the whipping boy, not Milano. Anyone notice Milano has terrible hands. He finally caught one that hit his hands. Early in the game Edmunds gifted Milano an interception, but Milano couldn’t make the play. He missed gaps that night too. Some of us get Edmunds is this year’s whipping boy. This year?!?! He’s been the whipping boy since he got here. He’s had a very good year. For the most part those who don’t like him will always pick out his mistakes and stay quiet when he does well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification. We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's. He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot. Santayana is laughing his ass off right now. Interesting comparison. Fletcher had 5 INT in 5 yrs to go with 5 forced fumbles and 14.5 sacks. So far in 4 1/2 season Edmunds has 4 INT, only 2 FF, and 6.5 sacks. Fits the narrative that Edmunds just doesn't make that many game changing plays. I know different eras/schemes and all those arguments.... For the record Fletcher continued to create turnovers in WAS, with a combined 21 INT and FF in 7 years. 11 minutes ago, _Underscore_ said: I’m in the camp that wishes Edmunds made more splash plays but should be given credit for righteously doing his “1 of 11”. If it were up to me, I would keep him. Here’s my question for the rest of you though – from both “pro” and “con” camps… Given: For the past four or five years, the Bills have been playing smart, strong defense. and: The defense is more scheme-based than relying on freak talent. and: Edmunds calls the plays for said defense. then: Might it not be true that his value to the coaches/organization might be (at least partially) from the neck up? I'm not the most knowledgeable football guy, but it seems to me that the strength of the defense is that it rarely makes egregious mental errors. A "good" (if unspectacular) player who makes sure everyone else is in a position to succeed is worth more than a stat-line. So here's my question: how much impact does the "quarterback of the defense" make? (not a loaded question, I'm seriously asking) Good post. One could argue he started as a rookie so if they draft a guy in rounds 1 or 2 there is a good chance he would start immediately in his place. I'm sure Milano could call the defense and I'm pretty sure just relaying the play call from Frazier is not that critical. As most agree it's all about the price tag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Greg Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I completely agree with your take, OP. He's a fantastic pass coverage LB. One thing that's hard to quantify is how many passes never get thrown over the middle by opposing teams because he's in good position to make a play (and also just a huge human being). He plays his pass coverage assignment really well and makes a big difference in the middle. Considering you have to pass to win in this league, especially in the playoffs, that's the most important attribute for his role in the Bills defense. He is very good sideline to sideline as you pointed out, but he also often over pursuses on offtackle runs and gets washed out of the play too easily. You're also correct that he doesn't fill the gap and stuff RBs like a Ray Lewis or a Roquan Smith. He's gotten a lot better vs. the run though and has great hustle. Overall, he's a huge asset for us because of his pass coverage skills. Not every player is going to be great at everything, but overall he's very good for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynamemike Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think the expectations for Tremaine were so high he’ll never live up to them. But when you watch the differences between him and Milano they are so far apart on impact plays and just instincts in general. At this point I look at Tremaine like I did of Paul Posluszny. Sure, he does give QB’s something to be concerned about running around like the predator in the middle of the field but it just seems like he should just make so many more impact plays with his size and athleticism and he just doesn’t. I’m ok if we keep him or let him walk, we locked up the more important linebacker last year imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Interesting comparison. Fletcher had 5 INT in 5 yrs to go with 5 forced fumbles and 14.5 sacks. So far in 4 1/2 season Edmunds has 4 INT, only 2 FF, and 6.5 sacks. Fits the narrative that Edmunds just doesn't make that many game changing plays. I know different eras/schemes and all those arguments.... For the record Fletcher continued to create turnovers in WAS, with a combined 21 INT and FF in 7 years. I only looked at London's tackle stats for the WTF's, not anything else. I'm actually surprised that Edmunds has 6.5 sacks, since The Edmunds Report showed how singularly ineffective he is at rushing the passer. All the "he made the tackle 6-8 yards downfield" posts just brought back memories of all the London Fletcher hate in his last year here. London Fletcher was not just a good MLB, he was a GREAT MLB, just short of HOF consideration. If he'd played on a good team, he would have had a shot at the HOF. I'm not sure if London leaving was Donahoe or Marv, but either way, the Bills blew it WRT London Fletcher. I hope they don't blow it by letting Edmunds go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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