Josh vs Tua

[Billzgobowlin]

So national media is pumping up how good Tua has been.  I'm curious is this just hyperbole or is there something to it?  I see Josh Allen being a much better passer as far as accuracy, decision making and arm strength.  I also see him being the more mobile QB.  Help me take off these rose colored glasses if you are seeing something that I am not.  I think the rest of our team even with injures is better maybe except for the speed and ability of their top two wideouts (even then Diggs and Davis can't be much behind).  

[TPS]

Of course Allen is better, if not the best. However, that doesn’t mean Tua hasn’t improved. I think too many here are underestimating the impact of McDaniel who has structured an offense to support Tua. Since they’ve only played 2 games, I’m sure they are getting better as a whole. 
I expect this should be a shoot out that Allen and the Bills win, especially given the injuries on D. 

[costrovs]

Some Qb's talent can help make WR's look better.

Some WR's talent can help make QB's look better.

Guess who is who...

[Royale with Cheese]

Tua has given their fan base a lot of hope.  Looking at their score predictions, they seem to be under the impression that last week was going to be the norm.  95% of the scores are Dolphins between 30-45 points against us.

 

Tua has improved.  He will hit open WR and fit 5 yard slants into tight windows.  However, his ball on the deep passes still hang in the air for a bit and I think he will struggle in that medium 10-20 throws consistently.  He has weak areas and I don’t think Josh does.

[Chandler#81]

Tua Turnaballova 

To a man, Tua sucks!

At Two-a-days, Tua’s dazed

 

Thats all I got🤷‍♂️

[Calidiehard]

It's just the hype of the week, the shiny toy so to say. Tua has 2 years-1 3/4 games looking like an avg to below avg quarterback with limited physical tools. Then all of the sudden an explosive 4 touchdown quarter where you had the ravens rookie dbs looking lost and arguing about who had who in man coverage. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what people saw in that 4th qtr is catching lightning in a bottle and what could be if the stars align perfectly for a brief moment. But his body of work says he isn't that guy now or in the near future. Could he be good someday, sure with lots of hard work and the good situation he is in now. But it doesn't just happen like that where everything just clicks in an instant and you don't go back.

[Don Otreply]

As a overall talent measure, it’s Josh every time, but the game will come down to scheming and execution for both teams, me, the Bills win this and it won’t be a close score in the end, are the fins gonna score points? Yup, we will just score more points, 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think it’s in between.

 

He’s not as good as the hype, but he’s not as bad as the mafia pretends he is. 

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think it’s in between.

 

He’s not as good as the hype, but he’s not as bad as the mafia pretends he is. 

You’re right. He’s actually worse 

[KingBoots8]

Listen- I hope the Phins are impressed enough that they overpay like hell to keep him and are stuck in perpetual wildcard status forever. That team with a QB like Josh would be terrifying considering their weapons they have. Luckily they are depleted of quite a few more draft picks and they spent like hell this off-season so they’re roughly as good as they’re going to get for a little while. 
 

Tua being mildly successful is not necessarily a bad thing for us. He just needs to be good enough to keep his job. He’s going to have games where he looks great given the weapons he has, but there will be some reality checks mixed in as well. If he struggles against what is essentially a second-string Defense we are fielding tomorrow just imagine what we can do when we aren’t missing 7 starters 

Edited September 24, 2022 by KingBoots8

[Nextmanup]

20 minutes ago, TPS said:

Of course Allen is better, if not the best. However, that doesn’t mean Tua hasn’t improved. I think too many here are underestimating the impact of McDaniel who has structured an offense to support Tua. Since they’ve only played 2 games, I’m sure they are getting better as a whole. 
I expect this should be a shoot out that Allen and the Bills win, especially given the injuries on D. 

They are also ignoring Hill and Waddle, who, as a pair, are outstanding. 

 

They are both in Diggs' class.  Waddle is a superstar in the making.  

 

Hill is as dangerous an offensive player as there is in this league.

 

We should still have the advantage, but there seem to be a LOT of people here who haven't figured out that it's not the same old joke of a Dolphins team down in Miami this year.

 

People seem to forget that teams can get much better--and much worse--in the span of 1 offseason.

 

 

 

[DCbillsfan]

Miami has scored 62 points in 2 games.  7 came from a defensive touchdown and 28 came in the 4th quarter against the Ravens.  So that's 27 points of offensive scoring in 7 quarters.  The Ravens had injuries in their secondary during their game that forced them to play two rookies.  

 

The Bills will be playing 2 rookies as well but have had time to prepare plus a bunch of reps in training camp and preseason not to mention 2 games that count.  Plus the Bills dline is better than Baltimore's.

 

Give Tua credit, he connected with Hill twice for long touchdowns and pulled out a win.  Allen is better than Tua in so many ways though and the Bills roster is better than Miami's.  McDaniel looks like he could be a good coach and they may be the Bills main competition going forward but their defense is pretty bad.

[wppete]

The LA Rams, the champs were suppose to beat us. Derek Henry was suppose to run all over us and Titans defense was going to stop Josh. 

[Bob in STL]

Tua has improved.  Better support around him is a big reason why.  Allen is elite and has the ability to make others around him better. 
 

How many GMs would right now pick Tua over Allen?  Not many is my guess.  
 

This will be settled on the field.  Miami has the big edge tomorrow with home field and they are catching Buffalo missing many starters on defense and banged up overall.   If Buffalo wins it should temper some of the Tua hype.  If Miami wins, the Tua talk will continue to grow.
 

Get used to a renewed rivalry.   It will be Buffalo and Miami battling for AFCE dominance once again.  

[Tanoros]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

They are also ignoring Hill and Waddle, who, as a pair, are outstanding. 

 

They are both in Diggs' class.  Waddle is a superstar in the making.  

 

Hill is as dangerous an offensive player as there is in this league.

 

We should still have the advantage, but there seem to be a LOT of people here who haven't figured out that it's not the same old joke of a Dolphins team down in Miami this year.

 

People seem to forget that teams can get much better--and much worse--in the span of 1 offseason.

 

 

 

That’s all true and all. But I believe the Bills won’t let the Dolphins get this big down the field plays. Big plays for the Dolphins will have to come from short throws that generate tons of YAC (which they have the ability to do). We know our offense can move the ball, I also believe the Dolphins even if they move the ball down the field will have sole struggles in the red zone. We build a lead, force them to feel like they need to keep up, and then the game is in our hands. 
 

Tua has to show he can play 4 quarters of good football and not having to rely on broken coverage for big plays before we can give them the respect to think they will hang with the Bills offense. 
 

The other thing, our defensive line has been amazing so far to start the year. Tua will get pressured early, it will be interesting to see how handles the pressure throughout the game. Either way, I expect to see a reality check for Tua and the Dolphins, atleast compared to where most media pundits are placing the Dolphins.

[Seoulofstone]

I like Miami’s chances of making the playoffs regardless of the outcome tomorrow. With the slow start by AFC north and south teams and Raiders and Broncos not living up to pre season hype I think the Dolphins can end their playoff drought.

[Chandler#81]

26 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think it’s in between.

 

He’s not as good as the hype, but he’s not as bad as the mafia pretends he is. 

Please review and explain why we’re wrong

 

[Awwufelloff]

If you get pressure on Tua he panics and throws Ints or inaccurate passes. He simply does not have the arm strength to do what Josh Allen does. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Awwufelloff

[mushypeaches]

I watched the Fins-Ravens game last night and came away decidedly unimpressed by Tua.

 

He hit a lot of short receivers accurately - yes we all know that he can and will throw lots of balls close to the LOS.  Luckily, our defense knows how to tackle

 

Intermediate throws for him are a disaster.  He doesn't anticipate well, and doesn't throw guys open or attempt difficult throws.  We're pretty good at defending those

 

He has guys that can get behind a defense and throw a deep ball.  Something tells me we'll play a lot of deep zone and keep everything in front of us

 

And lastly, he was pressured very little against the Ravens.  We all know what he looks like under pressure

 

Bills by a billion

[scuba guy]

Tua vs Josh 

Tua is 6 foot ish  Josh is all of 6' 5 244

Tua can't hurdle a guy Josh has hurdle players 😳 

Tua can't throw on the run going to his left over throws or puts the ball at the wrs feet

Josh worked on that and fix the problems. (Tks for the videos Chandler)

 

In Josh rookie training camp when he threw 💪 his feet were never in the same position and sometimes his right foot would be in front of his left which is really bad for a right handed person. Josh has worked on this.

 

Tua mechanics are still yucky.

 

Tua deep ball is a goose flying to Florida 

 

Josh's deep ball has been worked on by him Lazer to John brown 😳 and know puts air under it for Diggs and Davis to catch ( see last 2 game videos)

 

Tua does not stiff arm people 

 

Josh mite 1 or 2 times

 

Tua has lots of yac

 

Josh was last in the league 

Edited September 24, 2022 by scuba guy
Spelling

[Ralonzo]

The ball is mostly going to the first read. When that isn't available can he get to the second? If he doesn't have time to get to the second, can he buy that time and get the ball there?

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

17 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please review and explain why we’re wrong

 

That game isn’t even from this year. Remember how butt hurt fans got when media/other fan groups would use Josh’s first 2 seasons to discredit how good he was when he broke into the scene? 
 

Not saying Tua is Josh, I’m just saying he may not be trash. He could be a solid starting NFL QB.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Tua has had one exceptionally good quarter out of his last 16 quarters played. The other 15 quarters of football have been either average or below average QB play. Allen has played at a good to exceptionally good level in his last 15 quarters of football. Not needing to play at all in his most recent quarter.

 

Tua and Miami are intriguing. At the least, we see that their offense is explosive and the addition of Hill was a homerun for them. They won't ever be out of a game even if down multiple scores in the 4th quarter. The difference in this game will hopefully be the Bills pass rush and McDermott/Frazier's track record of consistent don't get beat deep secondary regardless of who is back there.

 

Josh Allen and the Bills offense is on an amazing efficiency streak. Law of averages suggest sooner rather than later they will have a down game unless they are one of those truly elite offenses like the 2007 Patriots or 2013 Broncos. Neither team was held to less than 30 points on the score board until weeks 9 and 8 respectively. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

37 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please review and explain why we’re wrong

 

 

And this is one of Tua's last four games played. One of his worst ever as a pro. In a high stakes game that Miami had to have. Then the following week he plays a game manager role at New England attempting only 22 passes while getting the win. Meanwhile exactly one week later against the exact same New England defense Josh Allen leads the Bills offense to the first ever perfect game while throwing 5 TD's in zero degree weather.

 

And Tua's week one game this year against the Patriots was very much like his final game last season. Game manger squeaking out the win 20-7 in a game that the offense only put up 13 of those 20 points.

 

If you look at the totals of the last four games played for each player, Tua vs. Josh, Josh still runs circles around Tua but Tua probably looks somewhat respectable in terms of QB rating, QBR and TD to INT ratio. But it is heavily dependent on one quarter of football. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

21 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That game isn’t even from this year. Remember how butt hurt fans got when media/other fan groups would use Josh’s first 2 seasons to discredit how good he was when he broke into the scene? 
 

Not saying Tua is Josh, I’m just saying he may not be trash. He could be a solid starting NFL QB.

 

It's not but it is one of the last four games he played. Also, the very next week he played the Patriots and I have to say he was a game manager in that game just like he was in the week one game this year against the same team. Two different seasons, same opponent, same game manager style don't lose the game for us type of game. A lot of the talk about Allen has been what he has done in his last four games dating back to last seasons playoffs. He is on a historical run. So I think it is fare to contrast with Tua's last four games. Tua has had a historical quarter of football. But it happens to be the last quarter he played.

 

All this said, Tua has gotten a lot of crap from fans and media as a guy that can't cut in this league. As Bills fans I think we can all relate to that as Allen got a lot of that in his first two seasons. In that sense I am happy for Tua and rooting for him. Just not this Sunday. I still think the cards are stacked heavily against Tua breaking out for an entire season though. Time will tell if Tua's 3rd season can be a breakout season like Allen's 3rd season was. But so far Tua merely has one great quarter of football in two games. Allen had 7 or 8 great quarters of football when he broke out in his first two games back in 2020.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Tua has given their fan base a lot of hope.  Looking at their score predictions, they seem to be under the impression that last week was going to be the norm.  95% of the scores are Dolphins between 30-45 points against us.

 

Tua has improved.  He will hit open WR and fit 5 yard slants into tight windows.  However, his ball on the deep passes still hang in the air for a bit and I think he will struggle in that medium 10-20 throws consistently.  He has weak areas and I don’t think Josh does.

Dude Tua sucks. 

[Big Turk]

There is no comparison 

 

/🧵

 

 

[Success]

Anyone watch that game last week - or see the highlights?

 

Hill and Waddle were ridiculously wide open on so many plays.  Tua actually had some pretty bad throws to them - they had to either slow down or adjust.

 

[wjag]

This should be a fun game.  

[NyQuil]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

The ball is mostly going to the first read. When that isn't available can he get to the second? If he doesn't have time to get to the second, can he buy that time and get the ball there?

 

 

By the time he does his second or third read he will have a Bill in his face.

Edited September 24, 2022 by NyQuil

[Billzgobowlin]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please review and explain why we’re wrong

 

I personally think last years film doesn't equate to this year but I also think Tua hasn't really been tested yet this year.

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, KingBoots8 said:

Tua being mildly successful is not necessarily a bad thing for us. He just needs to be good enough to keep his job. He’s going to have games where he looks great given the weapons he has, but there will be some reality checks mixed in as well. If he struggles against what is essentially a second-string Defense we are fielding tomorrow just imagine what we can do when we aren’t missing 7 starters 

 

Tua needs to be good enough so when Titans get tired of their used toy from Mijami that they will get another one rather than a new sportscar.

[Mynamemike]

Although the coaching was a mess his first two years, you can’t deny they’ve surrounded him with weapons.  In the little I’ve seen him play other then our games he seems like he could be a very good/ above average qb imo.  Not overly elite at anything but very solid which will allow them to win games.  Seems like their coaching staff believes in him and if they get their defense together they’re going to be our biggest competitor in the East the next few years.  I think with all the injuries to our D he could have a good game tomorrow.  Those receivers plus Geseki are going to be a handful.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Dude Tua sucks. 

He’s above suck now.  He’s meh.

[Freddie's Dead]

Tua gonna crash back down to earth tomorrow.  Hard.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, TPS said:

Of course Allen is better, if not the best. However, that doesn’t mean Tua hasn’t improved. I think too many here are underestimating the impact of McDaniel who has structured an offense to support Tua. Since they’ve only played 2 games, I’m sure they are getting better as a whole. 
I expect this should be a shoot out that Allen and the Bills win, especially given the injuries on D. 

I’ve watched just about every second of the dolphins two games this season and I think people are overestimating the system being kinder to tua actually.  Not saying he isn’t better but he’s certainly not much better.  Tuas performed about the same against decent coverage as last season…that ravens 4th quarter is going to be a crazy statistical outlier because of how bad that secondary was communicating down the stretch.    He’s a mostly one read qb who just won’t throw the ball in tight windows and it showed for 7/8 quarters of the season.

he’s laser accurate when his receiver has a step but he seems pretty hesitant to try to throw guys open.

 

They have had plenty of drives stall out dumping the ball out in the flats and losing 4-5 yards when he has receivers open downfield.
 

 he looks like he’s still holding the team back to me so I hope people keep talking him up honestly.  Lamar would be pretty scary with that supporting cast and I’ve heard that rumored. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SirAndrew]

I loved the video montage of Tua’s bad throws. His throwing motion reminds me a lot of Tim Tebow. He has a great wideout in Tyreek Hill who’s the kind of guy who can bail out a QB. Tua’s going to have some good games as a result, but nothing I see points to him being great. He simply doesn’t pass the eye test. 

[NewEra]

Big win vs small lose.

[CircleTheWagons99]

ITS BEEN TWO WEEKS. What happens if Hill or Waddle get hurt? TUA will not be able to win games without them. Josh has proven he can win without his starting cast. Can Tua? 

[MPL]

Most of the media reaction I have seen has been acknowledging that Tua is progressing but not wanting to overreact until they see it consistently from him. There's no denying that what Tua did in the 4th quarter was incredible... even if you want to point to the Ravens leaving guys wide open. Tua also made a number of clutch throws where he put the ball where only his guy could get it... including the game-winner to Waddle. 

 

I think Tua is better than a lot of Bills fans want to admit. He can get the ball out quickly and can be very accurate. That said, he can also be rattled, lock on to one guy for too long, and has the occasional errant throw. 

Josh Allen made some bad throws and missed some wide open guys in year 3. Josh Allen throw a 5-yard pass into the dirt on MNF last week. But it's very clear that Josh has transcended to a different level this year. The way he runs the offense and commands the line of scrimmage looks like Manning or even Brady. Add that to his absurd physical traits, and good luck stopping it. 

 

No one in the media is claiming Tua is better than Josh. But with this Miami offense, Tua just has to get the ball out on time and accurately. They can win a lot of games that way with the speed they have, and they'll be a playoff team this year. Bring the pressure and get him rattled. He'll make mistakes.