Which player on the roster baffles you that they are on this team?

[balln]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If they decided to keep Morris over Howard I can live with that, Morris is at least somewhat of an unknown. But we already know what Sweeney is in this league. For all intents and purposes the Bills had one TE on the roster last year, they stopped dressing Sweeney after his awful showing in the Panthers game. He can't block, he can't separate, he can't catch. He is not even a JAG. Personally I wouldn't even keep him on the PS. I just can't figure out why this regime would keep him over Howard considering the dead cap hit.

 

bc they value process and their own draft picks even failed ones way too long. Way, way way too long 

 

Nathan peterman 

cody ford (they tried to trot him out as starting guard. Then they tried playing him every other series last year )

and they’ll do it with boogie basham and aj espeneza who are a bunch of fringe JAGs 

[Rochesterfan]

59 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

What surprises me is not that Jones is a great gunner and therefore kept on the roster, but that year after year, they can't find a guy who they can coach up to be a really good gunner who is also a viable backup at a position of need.  So many good athletes pass through that don't make it.  Couldn't a backup CB, S, LB or (viable) RB be molded into a gunner over the course of a training camp or a season on the Practice Squad?  Or is it just that specialized a skill and Jones just that much better at it?  Given that I trust our coaching staff and front office, I'd have to say yes.

 

Why do you think it is coaching that keeps people from excelling at ST.

 

Across the league - there are a ton of special team only guys that really have no position on the field.

 

Much like other players they spend a ton of time practicing their role and watching film to prepare for the opponent.

 

Guys can be found and molded to become gunners, but then they will not have the time to devote to being a full time player at another position and basically you replace a special teams player with different ST only player.

 

Guys like Taiwan, Tyler, even Kumerow spend time preparing for their special teams role and then making sure that other players are versed in what needs to be done because they have not had the time to study the film and know the full gameplan.

 

We saw it back in the day with Tasker and Mark Pike - neither played more than a handful of snaps at their “positions” because they worked to hone the craft of special teams.  Late in his career they talked about using Tasker more as a WR, but he said that really interfered with his special teams play.  It hurt his coverage ability and his preparation time.

 

 

 

 

[BillsVet]

42 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

But I hope Kromer and Beane are combing the waiver wire for an upgrade.

 

I thought this roster was so stacked that mid-round draft picks had almost no hope of making the roster.

 

Trust the process?  When did that stop being the mantra? 

 

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

I thought this roster was so stacked that mid-round draft picks had almost no hope of making the roster.

 

That sounds like a "you" problem

6/8 draft picks made the roster, including our 2 "mid round" picks (since we lacked a 4th)

 

None of that addresses the issue of IOL 'cuz we didn't draft any IOL in any round

Edited August 31, 2022 by Beck Water

[Rochesterfan]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't agree with that. I'm not saying Howard played well but it was better than anything Sweeney has ever shown. You may be right that they decided that his heart isn't it, and I don't mind if that's why they cut him. I just don't agree Sweeney's "heart" comes anywhere close to bridging the talent gap.

 

All this being said it's possible Sweeney is a temporary roster spot that they'll eventually replace with a better TE or another position entirely. In that event no complaints from me.

 

I don’t know, but Sal must have mentioned it a dozen times or more.  Sweeney was always doing the right things in practice and catches nearly everything.  Howard was struggling to even figure out what he was doing, was out of position, and was having drop issues.  
 

Most of the media I heard - thought Howard was bad enough he did not deserve to be on the team and most thought his salary was enough that Beane would keep him just to avoid looking bad.

 

I think this is a bow shot to the team - salary doesn’t matter - I am willing keep our guys if you perform better.

[BillsVet]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That sounds like a "you" problem

 

Nah dude, I'm just reiterating what the a lotta people said around these parts before the draft.  

 

It's amazing Khalil Shakir made the team...that WR depth is gonna be fun to watch.  

[hemma]

I’m sure that Stevenson’s elegant presentation to the coaches of roast chicken with red wine demi-glace and polenta

had no effect at all on his retention.

 

[BillsVet]

4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

I don’t know, but Sal must have mentioned it a dozen times or more.  Sweeney was always doing the right things in practice and catches nearly everything.  Howard was struggling to even figure out what he was doing, was out of position, and was having drop issues.  

 

Listening to Sal takes for more than a minute can take a year off your life.  Somewhere it's been scientifically proven that's the case. 

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

Stevenson over Hodgins and Can Roten over Mancz make no sense to me. I’m no Sweeney fan, but I also don’t get all the hate he’s been getting. I think people just wanted to believe that OJ Howard would be good and don’t want to admit he sucked.

He legitimately played really well in the preseason.

Yeah, Mancz surprised because of how he was playing and because that leaves us with only one healthy backup interior lineman.  That's why I'm guessing they are bringing Mancz back as soon as they're allowed to re-sign him.

[Rochesterfan]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Listening to Sal takes for more than a minute can take a year off your life.  Somewhere it's been scientifically proven that's the case. 

 

Better than some people on this board - at least he knows what he is talking about.

 

 

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Tremaine Edmunds..... Had to do it😇

i believe the proper protocol would be start a new thread to express this

[die hard bills fan]

Spector

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Better than some people on this board - at least he knows what he is talking about.

 

 

The caffeinated one?  People like him around here because he tells them what they want to hear.  If there was a class called Shill 101 he'd be teaching it. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

The caffeinated one?  People like him around here because he tells them what they want to hear.  If there was a class called Shill 101 he'd be teaching it. 

 

Sure - not like he has coached Football, established relationships with players and staff, told people how it was with players like Blackshear, Hodgins, and Howard - when everyone tweeting at him said we had to keep those 3 guys and he said they wouldn’t.

 

He is well connected and knows enough about not only football, but the coaching side that he can tell you what is going on, but go ahead and think he does it just to shill to the team.

 

If he was going to tell people what they wanted to hear - wouldn’t he be talking about cutting Taiwan, Tyler, Sweeney, and Kumerow and how Blackshear and Hodgins are on the team instead.

 

🤦‍♂️

[dpberr]

Andre Smith.

 

I don't understand why the Bills insist on keeping a suspended player that has sparingly played and was the result of a trade for a 7th round pick in 2020.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, dpberr said:

Andre Smith.

 

I don't understand why the Bills insist on keeping a suspended player that has sparingly played and was the result of a trade for a 7th round pick in 2020.

he doesn't count as a roster spot while suspended.

[Rochesterfan]

12 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Andre Smith.

 

I don't understand why the Bills insist on keeping a suspended player that has sparingly played and was the result of a trade for a 7th round pick in 2020.

 

Because he is a free roster spot at 0 cost.  If after 6 weeks there are no injuries - you cut him for nothing.  
 

Why wouldn’t they keep a free player?

 

 

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Nah dude, I'm just reiterating what the a lotta people said around these parts before the draft.  

 

It's amazing Khalil Shakir made the team...that WR depth is gonna be fun to watch.  

 

I don't remember everything people say here or in the media, but the predominant sentiment I heard when the Bills traded up in the 5th to take Shakir was that he was a "steal" for us.

 

So I don't think it was considered as a "bubble", then from the start of camp he was running smooth routes and releasing well.  He was clearly outplaying everyone but the top 4

[The Dean]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

What surprises me is not that Jones is a great gunner and therefore kept on the roster, but that year after year, they can't find a guy who they can coach up to be a really good gunner who is also a viable backup at a position of need.  So many good athletes pass through that don't make it.  Couldn't a backup CB, S, LB or (viable) RB be molded into a gunner over the course of a training camp or a season on the Practice Squad?  Or is it just that specialized a skill and Jones just that much better at it?  Given that I trust our coaching staff and front office, I'd have to say yes.

 

I'm thinking being a gunner is as much mindset as talent---much like a WR/TE being a good blocker. The technique can be taught, but not the mentality.

 

Plus you need a guy you KNOW (not hope) will be there game after game doing a great job.  Most RBs (just for example) are concentrating on breaking into the starting lineup as a RB. It's good to have a guy who knows his role and puts all of his effort into his ST position.

 

I've said it before and say it again. Too many posters have a disrespect of special teams. They would rather have a slightly better RB sitting on the very edge of the bench, rarely if ever getting into a game at that position, than have a stud ST player. Completely absurd, IMO.  If the RBs get injured, it's pretty damn easy to pick one up during the week. 

 

46 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Why do you think it is coaching that keeps people from excelling at ST.

 

Across the league - there are a ton of special team only guys that really have no position on the field.

 

Much like other players they spend a ton of time practicing their role and watching film to prepare for the opponent.

 

Guys can be found and molded to become gunners, but then they will not have the time to devote to being a full time player at another position and basically you replace a special teams player with different ST only player.

 

Guys like Taiwan, Tyler, even Kumerow spend time preparing for their special teams role and then making sure that other players are versed in what needs to be done because they have not had the time to study the film and know the full gameplan.

 

We saw it back in the day with Tasker and Mark Pike - neither played more than a handful of snaps at their “positions” because they worked to hone the craft of special teams.  Late in his career they talked about using Tasker more as a WR, but he said that really interfered with his special teams play.  It hurt his coverage ability and his preparation time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said. Some here will never understand that, I think. 

[billybob71]

None of this back end of the roster stuff matters much, yeah I know this is a Bills message board so knock yourself out and discuss away... but we have Josh freaking Allen best QB in the league, that nullifies the whole Quintin over OJ or Hart over Mancz... etc it doesn't matter we have JOSH ALLEN people😁

Edited August 31, 2022 by billybob71

[Bob in STL]

Stevenson over Hodgins is the big shocker.  

 

Van Roten over Mancz is an injury move.  Mancz would have likely been out injured and they need a backup C so that Bates can stay at RG.  I think we could get Mancz back later unless Van Roten actually does good as a backup C/G.  

Sweeney lucked out that OJH was actually worse and slow to learn the offense.  

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Bob in STL

[LeGOATski]

Stevenson. The kid has shown time and again that he just doesn't have a good feel for the game. Great athlete but just a bad football player. Reminds me of TJ Graham.

[NickelCity]

I can't believe how poor the OLine depth is. 

[ehfeuh57]

Van Rotten and Hart

[NickelCity]

Stevenson, Hart, Van Roten...surely two or all of these players will be replaced...right??

[buffblue]

Stevenson. Dude is flat out not an NFL player and will be summarily shown the door when a punter is signed

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

Josh Allen

 

Yup.  Can he punt?

[Rc2catch]

I’ll hold off on some of it, cause I think there’s a few moves coming still. Definitely a lot of overreaction to some of the cuts who 99% will clear and head to the practice squad. I’m ready for week 1 though. Let’s do this 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Morris is new.  Josh knows Sweeney and he sticks until something else happens.  Beane will get the best TE for the PS that he can.

Sweeney if under the gun and he knows it.  If he doesn't improve, he won't be a Bill next year.

What do you mean Josh knows Sweeney??  Are you saying he gets to pick his buddies for the team?  That sounds silly.  But not sure how we end up w Sweeney and Morris as our 2nd and 3rd TE's.  That's curious that we cut OJ Howard.  What did he do so poorly?  The guy ran a nice route for a TD against the Broncos.  

20 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

I can't believe how poor the OLine depth is. 

I don't like Doyle at all.  But where are you finding better then Hart, Van Roten, and Quissenberry/Brown?  Not a lot of good O lineman around the league.  A lot of teams can barely find 4 or 5 starting caliber O lineman, let along backups.  

 

Was Cody Ford really worse then Hart and Van Roten?  

[NickelCity]

7 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

What do you mean Josh knows Sweeney??  Are you saying he gets to pick his buddies for the team?  That sounds silly.  But not sure how we end up w Sweeney and Morris as our 2nd and 3rd TE's.  That's curious that we cut OJ Howard.  What did he do so poorly?  The guy ran a nice route for a TD against the Broncos.  

I don't like Doyle at all.  But where are you finding better then Hart, Van Roten, and Quissenberry/Brown?  Not a lot of good O lineman around the league.  A lot of teams can barely find 4 or 5 starting caliber O lineman, let along backups.  

 

Was Cody Ford really worse then Hart and Van Roten?  

 

No, Ford wasn't worse than them. Nor was Mancz which is weird. 

[Luka]

I'm just wondering how Blackshear and Hodgins AREN'T on the team. Remember when Beane and McDermott almost made this mistake with Gabriel Davis? I understand the running back position is undervalued but in this offense, having a stable of wide receivers who can get it done in the event something terrible happens you'd think would take priority. Hopefully he catches on somewhere else, not in our division.

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, billybob71 said:

None of this back end of the roster stuff matters much, yeah I know this is a Bills message board so knock yourself out and discuss away... but we have Josh freaking Allen best QB in the league, that nullifies the whole Quintin over OJ or Hart over Mancz... etc it doesn't matter we have JOSH ALLEN people😁

Mattered last year in Kansas City. Short memory?

[PolishPrince]

Kumerow.... I get he's a special teamer, but we already have Taiwan, matakavich, Andre, GIlliam sort of, and Siran Neal as special teamers. Kumerow outside of like one week in training camp 2021, has shown absolutely nothing at WR except blocking.

[Process]

Sweeney. Not an NFL player. 

 

It should be unbelievably easy to find a solid #2 TE. Not sure how McBeane blew that one. 

[Airseven]

I understand the irritation with cockroaches like Sweeney and Jones. But coaches value leadership intangibles and ST. As a fan, I have no insight into those nuances and whether there’s any return on investment over the course of a season.

 

I’m more baffled with retread scrubs like Lawson and Phillips who have zero upside.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Sweeney makes no sense. Howard was already paid for and he should have been given time to get better.  Sweeney does nothing well.  If Howard truly can't play fine, but Sweeney can't play either. 

 

My feelings on Gilliam are well known.  I don't want a FB on the field and I would use an OT as a third TE.  I would use Moss in a two backfield set.  I'm sorry to rant but Gilliam also does nothing well except know the playbook in multiple spots. He is not a good lead blocker and he is not a threat in the pass game.  If they really want a true FB then go get a decent one.

 

I still believe the team puts too much emphasis on Special Teams.  I don't understand why they have three guys designated for special teams that have zero ability with their natural position.   Why can't they coach up Blackshear, Hodgins, or some other LB to play teams?  Those first two guys showed more than Jones and Kumerow have at RB and WR.  Ultimately it doesn't really matter.  All these guys are bottom of the roster and only the PHK really makes a difference.    

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

Would be Sweeney but he’s the front runner.

 

I’m going with Zack Moss. No way, no Zack.

[GunnerBill]

Stevenson (unless running into the ass of your teammates is now a thing I am not sure what value he adds)

 

Sweeney (bad at football)

 

Hart (I get that people can improve but this would need to be Clark Kent's unattractive, half-brother turning into Superman)

 

6 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

What surprises me is not that Jones is a great gunner and therefore kept on the roster, but that year after year, they can't find a guy who they can coach up to be a really good gunner who is also a viable backup at a position of need.  So many good athletes pass through that don't make it.  Couldn't a backup CB, S, LB or (viable) RB be molded into a gunner over the course of a training camp or a season on the Practice Squad?  Or is it just that specialized a skill and Jones just that much better at it?  Given that I trust our coaching staff and front office, I'd have to say yes.

 

It's that. I don't know why Bills fans still need this explaining every year but Taiwan Jones is really, really good at what he does. He isn't replaceable by any Tom, Dick or Isaiah that you just pluck off the bottom end of the roster.

Edited August 31, 2022 by GunnerBill

[folz]

4 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

I'm thinking being a gunner is as much mindset as talent---much like a WR/TE being a good blocker. The technique can be taught, but not the mentality.

 

Plus you need a guy you KNOW (not hope) will be there game after game doing a great job.  Most RBs (just for example) are concentrating on breaking into the starting lineup as a RB. It's good to have a guy who knows his role and puts all of his effort into his ST position.

 

I've said it before and say it again. Too many posters have a disrespect of special teams. They would rather have a slightly better RB sitting on the very edge of the bench, rarely if ever getting into a game at that position, than have a stud ST player. Completely absurd, IMO.  If the RBs get injured, it's pretty damn easy to pick one up during the week. 

 

 

Good Post Dean.

 

Most fans don't care about special teams until we get a PR or KR TD scored against us or have a botched punt, etc. And then they are mad at the team for not having good special teams, even though on cut day they were advocating to cut core special teams players. We have been spoiled by good special teams the last few years, for the most part (and during the Super Bowl runs). But there have been many years in between where they weren't so special, where it cost us games, etc. Field position is real (even though the new kickoff rules have diminished the number of kick returns themselves).

 

 

As to the roster...

I really wanted to see Hodgins make the team (I think he's a beast at converting 3rd and 4th downs and catches everything thrown his way). But, how much would he have realistically played (barring injury). Are you sitting Diggs, Davis, Crowder/McKenzie, Cook/Singeltary on 3rd down for Isiah? Whereas Kumerow will play teams every week. And, most likely, Hodgins ends up on the practice squad anyhow...so will still be available if injuries occur.

 

My heart would have liked to see Blackshear make it, but my head pretty much knew he wouldn't. Again, with Singletary, Moss, and Cook in front of him, he's not on the field unless there are injuries. Whereas Taiwan plays every week at an important position (just not RB). And again, we will most likely have at least one, if not both, Duke Johnson and/or Blackshear on the practice squad, in case of injuries.

 

Not sure why everyone is so down on Tommy Sweeney all of a sudden. O.J. Howard is a name and a high draft pick, so I can only assume that people are still holding out hope that he'll finally reach his potential (I did too when they signed him). But, he didn't do it in Tampa Bay with the Goat, and from all reports, was not playing well in training camp. And he was invisible in the preseason except for that one TD...and he played a lot of minutes. I'm not sure yet if Sweeney is much better than O.J., but I definitely don't think he is clearly worse. And if it's even, or slight edge to Sweeney, why wouldn't you keep the guy you know better, that does all of the right things, that already is bonded with the rest of the team, and knows the system better? As for Morris, I think he did stand out in the preseason and is more athletic than Howard or Sweeney, so deserved a spot. 

 

I can't knock the Bills for the roster decisions they made (with some tweaks still to come, I'm sure). Even if a guy I wanted didn't make it, I at least can see the reasoning behind the decisions. Could we lose a player like Blackshear or Hodgins to waivers (possibly, and that would suck), but come week one, who is more important on the field? A 6th-string WR who can or can't play STs, a 4th/5th-string RB who can or can't play STs, etc. And with the size of and lack of restrictions on the practice squads now, you can stash a lot of injury insurance there.

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He toes the company line…. That’s what he means by shill… he’s a homer who will support just about anything the organization does. 
 

I don’t trust nor take into consideration anything he says.

 
 

Well it is your loss because what I find is that because he is out there and has cultivated the relationship - he knows more about what is going on than most others - especially people on this board.

 

He had been telling those that listened - don’t be surprised if Sweeney makes it - the staff thought he had a great camp - he was catching everything and Howard was struggling.

 

He talked about Cam Lewis and using him at safety and how that was the last piece for him making this roster.

 

Maybe he is a shill, but if being a shill means you get the legitimate knowledge of what is going on with little bits filtered out because of things he can’t say - compared to other media members that spout crap because you want to hear it - give me the facts.

 

Everything he has said was coming up correct or he said it was down to these 2 depending on roster make-up.  For example - he had Hodgins out because he could not separate against the 4’s and he was weak at the point of attack on ST.  Therefore he had Kumerow making it.  Kumerow is less polished as a receiver, but gets separation even versus the 1’s and blocks better.  Plus he is way better at ST.

 

That isn’t shilling- that is stating what the team is looking for in a #6 WR and why Kumerow has and edge.

 

He talked extensively about Cam Lewis versus Nick McCloud as a final roster spot and how going into camp McCloud had the edge because he had corner/safety flexibility and that was the request of the team to Cam.  Cam stepped up and has outside/slot/ and now safety flexibility giving him the edge.

 

You could learn a lot because reading your posts it seems you miss a lot of what and why teams do things.