Was that Zach Moss run actually impressive?

[The Jokeman]

8 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If completely healthy, and it looks like he is, he's making the team. 

 

The Motor/Moss/Cook combo is a pretty nice young trio that each bring a specific skill set to the table. 

Are we sure Moss makes it? As Raheem Blackshear showed he can pound it from inside the 20 and also can be a return man on ST so brings more to the table. I wouldn't be shocked if we see Moss traded for a draft pick to a RB needy team. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is the bit that still worries me. Not just because of the bad performance of the 2s/3s on Saturday but because of the outstanding concerns there were from last year with that group. Hopefully they are better but it still looks like the weakest starting unit on the team to me. 

 

I just don't think we have any way of knowing right now. 

 

It's hilarious to me, listening to Bills content creators discuss the OL after Preseason Game 1, when our Top 7 didn't play and OL8 (likely Ford) only played a handful of snaps.  I guess we can analyze Kromer's concepts and Doyle, who's still a project.. but everyone else is a cut or PS body.   

 

This OL, on paper, is a 10-20 group on any given day.  They have the potential to be Top 10 if Saffold is healthy and Bates/Brown make any kind of jump. 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by SCBills

[Alphadawg7]

Wayyyyyyy too much is being made of his 27 yard run.  
 

He was never getting cut or traded unless he had a terrible camp.  Which he has not had, so he’s pretty safe for the 53 unless some other team with an injury calls with a decent trade offer.  
 

But it’s going to be Devin leading this backfield and getting starter touches with Cook mixing in some runs and lots of work as a pass catcher.  Moss will backup Devin, and will get some touches, but Devin will get the lions share of the rush attempts.  

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If completely healthy, and it looks like he is, he's making the team. 

 

The Motor/Moss/Cook combo is a pretty nice young trio that each bring a specific skill set to the table. 

Yep, and Taiwan for ST and Gilliam.  They like him as they value his versatility.  The others are PS or gone.

 

Moss does look better this year another year removed from the ankle injury.  Is he the reincarnation of B Sanders, no, but he has power in short yardage.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Wayyyyyyy too much is being made of his 27 yard run.  
 

He was never getting cut or traded unless he had a terrible camp.  Which he has not had, so he’s pretty safe for the 53 unless some other team with an injury calls with a decent trade offer.  
 

But it’s going to be Devin leading this backfield and getting starter touches with Cook mixing in some runs and lots of work as a pass catcher.  Moss will backup Devin, and will get some touches, but Devin will get the lions share of the rush attempts.  

 

Pretty much this - Moss might not dress some games too.  

Here's a fun stat - in the top 10 of 2021 carries:

 

Henry played 8 games

Montgomery played 13

Chubb played 14

Kamara 13

Cook 13

Gibson and Mixon both played 16

 

Its not likely that a back plays every game.  Its also not likely that they don't get dinged up and touch the ball less than normal in a stretch.  

[Don Otreply]

Zach Moss made chicken salad out of chicken sh-t on that play, he did very well on that snap. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come, as well consider that he was behind the 3rd team O-line. 

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited August 17, 2022 by Don Otreply

[hondo in seattle]

I'm neither conservative nor liberal on this issue...  I'm solidly, independently in the middle.

 

It was not a great play.  A faster, more fluid back with better vision would have gotten to the left more quickly and gracefully.  Still, he deserves credit for getting there eventually and picking up some yards.  

 

 

[BarleyNY]

Moss is fine to have in an NFL RB stable, but I think the real issue for him is that the Bills just drafted a RB that does the same things as him. And it’s a guy who will likely be at least as good as him at them. 

[FilthyBeast]

I really think this team should move Moss ASAP why he may have some value.

 

Because I truly loathe the idea of 'running back by committee' yet again this year when I feel that Singletary should be locked in as RB1 and Cook spelling him/being the WR option out of the backfield.

 

Keeping Moss here ruins that plan and wastes valuable carries.

[SCBills]

I thought Moss looked great in that game.  His burst was noticeably better from last year.

 

Moss is an interesting back.  He has a goal line/short yardage body, but is also very good in the passing game, both pass pro and pass catching. 

 

Seems pretty much locked in as RB3/Short Yardage Back.  It's not a small thing if he, along with a potentially better OL, allow those short yardage/red zone Josh Allen runs become Zack Moss runs.  It's time to protect the best QB in the NFL, and having him be our short yardage back in the regular season is ridiculous.  

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, StHustle said:

Would help to post the vid for folks…

 

 

…but yeah I agree. Wasn’t the prettiest play and had he got off clean maybe he scores…OR he got even more yards cause running into his blocker moved a few defenders out of place to make the tackle sooner (don’t have access to all 22). Wasn’t like he did it on purpose tho so it was def clumsy but he still had one of the longest runs of the weekend. 

Again his vision is still mediocre. He just ran right into a wall of blockers rather then plant his foot and head left. The only reason he ended up left is because he bounced that direction. He did show an improved burst on those two 5yd runs.  We'll see?

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

Moss played well enough as a rookie in 2020 to take lead back duties from Motor, then he busted up his ankle in the Colts playoff game.  Watch his2020 highlight reel and you see a lot of broken tackles, yards after contact and moving of the pile.  He also shows better speed than last season, good vision in the open field and a nose for the end zone.  Obviously these are the highlights and we aren't seeing any of the bad Moss, but he showed enough as a rookie to create some legitimate buzz going into year 2.  According to Beane, Moss was never fully healthy last year though, so the drop off can at least be explained.   Hopefully we're getting the 2020 Moss this season.

 

 

But if you look deeper Motor was better across the board. The only reason Moss got playing time was we changed blocking schemes and it fit him better, even though Singletary out produced him. 

[Logic]

Were the plays where Moss picked up chunks of yardage running behind guys that will be bagging groceries in a few weeks, against the Colts' 1st string d-line, which is one of the best in the league...actually impressive?

Yes, yes I believe they were.

[hemma]

Like a slow developing, 1 man reverse.

 

#59 got sucked in bad.

Edited August 17, 2022 by hemma

[BigDingus]

8 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If completely healthy, and it looks like he is, he's making the team. 

 

The Motor/Moss/Cook combo is a pretty nice young trio that each bring a specific skill set to the table. 

 

On paper, sounds nice. But rarely doss the 3 RB rotation turn out that great for any of them. 

 

None get significant enough reps, one guy inevitably gets buried (sometimes just inactive on game day), & it's just hard to get somebody in rhythm. 

 

Not necessarily against it, only that it's been kind of underwhelming most the time. 

 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Again his vision is still mediocre. He just ran right into a wall of blockers rather then plant his foot and head left. The only reason he ended up left is because he bounced that direction. He did show an improved burst on those two 5yd runs.  We'll see?

I'm not saying he's a star, but as I said earlier, he didn't run into a wall.  He was running where the play was designed to take him, and the blocker both lost the one-on-one battle and allowed the defender to get the outside edge on him.   Moss ran where he was supposed to run, and the defender made a good play.

 

Now, maybe that analysis isn't quite right.  Maybe Moss wasn't patient enough - maybe the blocker has the option to take his man left and or right, and Moss was supposed to wait and then cut the other way.  Instead, he got too close and made contact with the blocker who was engaged with the defender.   However, if he was supposed to wait to read the block, then he wasn't supposed to cut earlier.  As McDermott always says, they have things to learn from every play, even 27-yard gains.  The blocker has to do better, and Moss has to understand better how to run the play.  

 

Meanwhile, the entire right side of the defense was well under control, because when Moss bounced (literally) outside, he had plenty of daylight. 

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

But if you look deeper Motor was better across the board. The only reason Moss got playing time was we changed blocking schemes and it fit him better, even though Singletary out produced him. 

I don't know that's true, but I don't doubt you.   

 

But that is at the core of what McDermott does (and it's what Belichick does, too), which is to adjust the style of play to the capabilities of the players.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know that's true, but I don't doubt you.   

 

But that is at the core of what McDermott does (and it's what Belichick does, too), which is to adjust the style of play to the capabilities of the players.  

Sometimes. They've forced square pegs into round holes at times. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Cook would have scored.  I guess I get it, sometimes the defense just sucks and maybe it is getting overblown....who cares.  Moss is the backup, he is probably better than he was last year and that is good.

[Shaw66]

37 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Sometimes. They've forced square pegs into round holes at times. 

Such as?

[ngbills]

This is why one play, one game, limited anything is meaningless. You could put a high school football player on the field and if the set up is right they break off a 50 yard run. Broken coverage and a high school QB throws an 80yd TD. This is running and throwing, which many people can do. Its not something that you only need to see once to be impressed. Its about doing it consistently better than 99% of the rest of the world. 

[Special K]

12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I'm gonna get trolled on this because "dude!!! He gained 27 yards!!!" but is there anyone else who watched that run and wasn't impressed?

 

Sorry... if you watch the play and his initial read as he follows his block, it just looked like more confirmation he has poor vision as he basically ran into the backside of his blocker who was pretty early and clearly getting stuffed rather than bouncing earlier to the outside left, which he finally and eventually did.

 

I mean I liked the speed and the play made me excited, but he looked so clumsy and lacking in vision and instincts in the first half of that play, didn't he?

 

I'll tell you what's not impressive:

 

The fact that you spelled Zack Moss's name wrong in the title of your thread!!🙂

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

I just don't think we have any way of knowing right now. 

 

It's hilarious to me, listening to Bills content creators discuss the OL after Preseason Game 1, when our Top 7 didn't play and OL8 (likely Ford) only played a handful of snaps.  I guess we can analyze Kromer's concepts and Doyle, who's still a project.. but everyone else is a cut or PS body.   

 

This OL, on paper, is a 10-20 group on any given day.  They have the potential to be Top 10 if Saffold is healthy and Bates/Brown make any kind of jump. 

 

 

 

We don't have any way of knowing yet, that is true. I have said repeatedly you can't take much if anything from the awful line play on Saturday. But I start a bit more glass half empty than you do on this group. Anywhere around 10th in the league feels wildly optimistic to me. We shall see. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Simon]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Cook would have scored.  

 

Don't overestimate Cook's "breakaway" speed; it is not his strength.

Besides, I think he might have been sitting right on his wallet in the backfield.

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

But if you look deeper Motor was better across the board. The only reason Moss got playing time was we changed blocking schemes and it fit him better, even though Singletary out produced him. 

Most folk don’t realize that Singletary did indeed out perform Moss that season, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[LabattBlue]

When he ran into the back of his blocker, the 1st thing that came to mind…butt fumble.  😂

[NastyNateSoldiers]

I just never really seen him running with power and ferocity and that’s what u want a bk of his size to do. Travis Henry used to have great vision and power he had the same type of body as Moss I was hoping Moss would be a Henry type back but we never got to see it.

[auburnbillsbacker]

I think he makes the team but is a healthy scratch most games.  He likely starts next year but shares snaps with Cook.  He then moves on after his contract expires.  He's a good player who played hurt last year.  He will play well this year and next. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He was following Morris and was looking for the hole to open up to the right.  Morris got rocked by the rushing LB and blew up the play.  Moss made a nice cut back and showed some speed that was lacking last year.  It was an impressive run given what he had to deal with.

I thought he made a nice read, showing good vision cutting back to the left when the hole to the right was completely stuffed.  That being said, I don't think he showed much speed once he found the open field because he didn't have to outrun anyone.   If he had real NFL speed he probably would have scored there.  But overall he ran with confidence which is hopefully a good sign for his play this year.  I just don't think speed is his meal ticket.

[Royale with Cheese]

43 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I just never really seen him running with power and ferocity and that’s what u want a bk of his size to do. Travis Henry used to have great vision and power he had the same type of body as Moss I was hoping Moss would be a Henry type back but we never got to see it.

 

I think his power running is more that he can get hit and bounce off without losing his balance.  So not really power but maybe a "strong" runner is a better term?

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

This is why one play, one game, limited anything is meaningless. You could put a high school football player on the field and if the set up is right they break off a 50 yard run. Broken coverage and a high school QB throws an 80yd TD. This is running and throwing, which many people can do. Its not something that you only need to see once to be impressed. Its about doing it consistently better than 99% of the rest of the world. 

It would be almost impossible for a high school quarterback to throw an 80 yard NFL touchdown against NFL defense 

 

Sure breakdowns in defense happen… But A complete breakdown like that happens rarely in the NFL… Wide open in the NFL is considered 2-3 steps… 3 steps is wide open! That’s not much room for error 

 

And the speed of the game is insane compared to HS… The high school QB wouldn’t be able to process the breakdown fast enough or get the ball out there with enough velocity to do anything 

 

Maybe a five star future NFL quarterback can make one play but your average high school quarterback isnt doing anything

[Simon]

55 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I just never really seen him running with power and ferocity and that’s what u want a bk of his size to do.

 

 

[without a drought]

It's only preseason,  so it really doesn't matter or mean anything. But you have to give him credit if you're the same person who would call for him to be cut if he went 5 carries for 11 yards in a preseason game.

[Son of a K-Gun]

More Moss power running from early last year…this is the player that needs to show up.

 

 

[CapeBreton]

 

Kind of reminds me of one of Moss' longest runs in college (0:52 of this video) in that he gets a bit lucky because of contact near the line of scrimmage. He seeks out contact in this one, spins off the guy, and this is gone for the 91 yard TD. Might be lucky but I'll give him credit for taking full advantage of the open field.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

 

 

Only thing thats weird is he almost never stiffarms.  Always seems to cover up the ball at the end of runs.  Ball security won't be an issue if he does this but it sort of limits you on long runs when you cover the ball up and barrel into the safety - Not really setting yourself up to slip that tackle.  

 

He did fumble last year - the dolphins one where he didn't cover up and the helmet popped the ball after a catch.  He has 2 fumbles listed... but the other one was as he was diving out of bounds, the ground forced it, and he was probably touched on the way down (but why challenge it). 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

More Moss power running from early last year…this is the player that needs to show up.

 

 

His rookie year he said that we wants defenders to understand that tackling him at the goal line is a business decision.   These two runs exhibit what he meant.   If he can hit you trying to tackle him, he will, and you'll remember. 

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

On paper, sounds nice. But rarely doss the 3 RB rotation turn out that great for any of them. 

 

None get significant enough reps, one guy inevitably gets buried (sometimes just inactive on game day), & it's just hard to get somebody in rhythm. 

 

Not necessarily against it, only that it's been kind of underwhelming most the time. 

 

This is true but it may work in this particular case. If Singletary has a good year he may price himself out of Buffalo. Cook will more than likely be in on passing downs and counter runs and misdirection. Moss is a short yardage guy that should see good push from an improved O line, especially on 3rd and short. If Cook can prove he can produce positive yards on run plays in particular between the tackles he will most likely be the feature back next year with Moss as RB2.

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

This is true but it may work in this particular case. If Singletary has a good year he may price himself out of Buffalo. Cook will more than likely be in on passing downs and counter runs and misdirection. Moss is a short yardage guy that should see good push from an improved O line, especially on 3rd and short. If Cook can prove he can produce positive yards on run plays in particular between the tackles he will most likely be the feature back next year with Moss as RB2.

I don't see Singletary being a bigtime free agent.   He's not a workhouse running back, he's not a homerun hitter, and it's clear that his success comes from being a solid role player in a pass-first offense.   He's not a Zeke Elliott.  Plus, recent experience in the NFL has been that big dollars spent on running backs is money wasted. 

 

Some team may pay him more than the Bills are willing to pay, but I can't see him getting a big contract.  If the Bills have success this season, meaning win the AFC championship, I'd think that Singletary might decide he'd rather stay with the Bills for less than top dollar.  As for the Bills, it's unlikely that they'll view either Cook or Moss as a lead back for 2023, so I'd think they will have some incentive to keep him.   

[billsbackto81]

37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't see Singletary being a bigtime free agent.   He's not a workhouse running back, he's not a homerun hitter, and it's clear that his success comes from being a solid role player in a pass-first offense.   He's not a Zeke Elliott.  Plus, recent experience in the NFL has been that big dollars spent on running backs is money wasted. 

 

Some team may pay him more than the Bills are willing to pay, but I can't see him getting a big contract.  If the Bills have success this season, meaning win the AFC championship, I'd think that Singletary might decide he'd rather stay with the Bills for less than top dollar.  As for the Bills, it's unlikely that they'll view either Cook or Moss as a lead back for 2023, so I'd think they will have some incentive to keep him.   

I also don't see Motor in the same like as if a Chubb, Henry or Taylor were FA's but if he puts out close to 1k rushing as you said some team will pay more than Buffalo is willing. I do think Cook can be a lead back in a 70/30 split with a RB2 but he has to prove he's more the a pass catching RB.