OT: Belichick says that Mac's improvement is "dramatic"

[H2o]

You know what's even more laughable? Mac Jones ranked ahead of Von Miller in the NFL Top 100. 

[1ManRaid]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't think he understands the concept of high floor, low ceiling like Alex Smith.

 

Especially when people get to see the difference between him and Josh Allen twice a year. And let's be honest, it's a stark difference in physical talent. Jones is Clark Kent to Allen's Superman and there is no phone booth on the sidelines or locker room for Jones to go in to transform.

 

Couple this with the disaster that will be Patricia and Judge acting as defacto OCs this year and lack of skill position talent still and I find it hard to see how Jones has a better year than he did last year under McDaniels who while potentially being a total douchebag and poor HC, is a pretty damn good OC.

 

He is what he is. A good game manager that doesn't have the physical ability to force teams to respect him the way they do Allen or Mahomes or Herbert.

 

Not saying he can't have a long career and be very successful during the regular season, he can. Chiefs had the best record in the NFL over the near decade that Smith was their QB in the regular season. But we all saw how his lack of physical ability was exposed during the playoffs. Reid didn't win the Super Bowl until Mahomes was his QB.

 

Sure he might have some limited success early on in the playoffs but unless he has an unbelievable team surrounding him like the 2000 Ravens or Broncos had with Peyton Manning, they won't be winning the SB because of him.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/ex-nfl-gm-chooses-patriots-qb-mac-jones-sneaky-2022-mvp-pick

 

What gets me about people hyping up Jones as a franchise/MVP QB is the example I use from the playoff game.  Jones and Allen had nearly identical plays with opposite results.  Jones got picked off by Hyde because his noodle arm needs to give deep passes hangtime to get distance, Josh fired his 10 more air yards with less hangtime for a wide open TD.  That's the difference between Pro Bowl (alternate) and All Pro.

 

Jones will likely be successful to a degree, but never elite.

 

*edit*

Even last week when he had that one "great" deep pass to the sideline, I was half expecting Hyde to appear at the last moment with how long that hung in the air.  That play was all on the WR doing well and DB shortcomings, not on Jones' skill.

Edited August 20, 2022 by 1ManRaid

[Kwai San]

I am proud to say I did not click the clickbait.......can you say the same?

[RaoulDuke79]

It's  a strange world we live in.

[Rocky Landing]

Interesting debate on this thread regarding Mac Jones’ emotional makeup. I assume @Bill from NYC is a ‘bama fan?

 

clearly Mac & Cheese exceeded expectations. But a few things have struck me regarding his maturity.

 

I will go to my grave believing that the whole “QB competition” between Mac and Cam last year was a Belichick* ruse at Cam’s expense to build up Mac’s confidence. 

 

He was clearly crying at the end of the wild card beat down last season, as Josh Allen was giving him the standard “good game” handshake, to the point that it seemed like he was barely holding it together. 
 

I wouldn’t be bringing up that exchange at all (it was a big game, after all), except that I believe I saw the same tears, and expression yesterday, after his second three-and-out of crappy QB play vs. the Panthers. 
 

I brought this up in another thread. Did anyone else notice this? Second Patriots* offensive series in the first quarter, for those with GamsPass. I’d be interested if anyone else interprets this the way I did. 
 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Rocky Landing

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

So, I watched the Panthers at Pats* last night, and I'm pretty sure I saw this:

Mac & Cheese played in three series-- all against the the Panthers' second string, I believe. In his first two series, they went three and out, and looked like warm dog poo. At the end of the second series, after throwing a truly terrible seven-yard incompletion, I do believe Jones walked back to the sideline crying. Literally wiping away tears. Did anyone else see this? I'm not even sure what to make of it.

 

Come on, no need to go all "Skud Farkus" on him!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

All of this because 

Quote

In the early game Friday night, New England Patriots quarterback Mac Jones overcame a shaky start and two three-and-outs to lead the offense on a second-quarter scoring drive against the Carolina Panthers before his night was over.

 

He scored against backups and is MVP worthy?

 

lmao 😂 

[Success]

The ideal would be that he's just good enough for them to stick w/ him for many years - but that he's never good enough to get by the Bills.  Some years, NE gets close - but we're an obstacle they can never get by.

 

I'd really enjoy that.

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

Interesting debate on this thread regarding Mac Jones’ emotional makeup. I assume @Bill from NYC is a ‘bama fan?

 

clearly Mac & Cheese exceeded expectations. But a few things have struck me regarding his maturity.

 

I will go to my grave believing that the whole “QB competition” between Mac and Cam last year was a Belichick* ruse at Cam’s expense to build up Mac’s confidence. 

 

He was clearly crying at the end of the wild card beat down last season, as Josh Allen was giving him the standard “good game” handshake, to the point that it seemed like he was barely holding it together. 
 

I wouldn’t be bringing up that exchange at all (it was a big game, after all), except that I believe I saw the same tears, and expression yesterday, after his second three-and-out of crappy QB play vs. the Panthers. 
 

I brought this up in another thread. Did anyone else notice this? Second Patriots* offensive series in the first quarter, for those with GamsPass. I’d be interested if anyone else interprets this the way I did. 
 

 

 

I didnt see that and I dont really have anything to go back and look. Based on things I have seen and a few articles I read, he does seem like the type of guy that looks at himself in the mirror and smacks himself in the face while saying "you are a good QB... you are a good QB" lol.

[Rocky Landing]

54 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Come on, no need to go all "Skud Farkus" on him!

I'm just curious if anyone else noticed this, and what to make of it?

[Kirby Jackson]

Is Mac Jones a top 20 QB this year? I ask it that way because “long-term” you’d probably take him over guys like Matt Ryan. You might not for 2022 though. Is he a top 20 QB this year?

 

Guys that are DEFINITELY better:

- Allen

- Mahomes

- Rodgers

- Brady

- Burrow

- Herbert

- Murray

- Lamar

- Carr

- Russell Wilson

- (cringe) Watson

- Cousins

- Dak

- Stafford

 

Maybe:

- Hurts

- Lance

- Lawrence

- Fields

- Zach Wilson

- Pickett/Trubisky

- Baker

- Jameis

- Tua

- Tannehill

- Ryan

Edited August 21, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[UConn James]

11 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Jones seems to have some kind of halo effect with some in media, especially old timers. It seems like they view him as the perfect old school cerebral accurate QB. Personally I find it laughable. Kind of like longing for the days of the Model T with these guys like Charlie Weis and Mike Tanenbaum.

Have any of these people seen a Mac Jones interview? The guy seems to be perpetually stoned. Literally sounds like and resembles Sean Penn’s Spicoli in “Fast Times…”

 

Cerebral? Only if they’re talking about cerebral *damage.*

Edited August 21, 2022 by UConn James

[Victory Formation]

How is Patricia employed? What on earth is he blackmailing Belichick with?

[Sierra Foothills]

14 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Jones is Clark Kent to Allen's Superman and there is no phone booth on the sidelines or locker room for Jones to go in to transform.

 

There is the blue medical tent though...

 

13 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Some posters here are rather insecure. 

 

I am not insecure and I don't appreciate you implicating me like that in front of the others.

 

12 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

To bolster your point a little, Brees was benched in SD for a 41 year old Flutie and was mediocre at best there. Many forget Brees is more of a "system" QB then Josh or Mahomes are. And before anyone jumps on it, system QB is not an insult from me.

 

I disagree about Brees being a System QB. He made the Pro Bowl in San Diego where his Head Coach was Marty Schottenheimer and his Offensive Coordinator was "the great" Cam Cameron.

 

He lost his job because the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers.

 

He made the Pro Bowl as a Charger and I recall being in the stadium when he surgically destroyed a Bills defense that featured Sam Adams, Takeo Spikes, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Aaron Schobel, Lawyer Milloy, etc.

 

In his prime Brees could sling the ball with accuracy in a way few QBs can. His ball placement was superb and his velocity transcended his stature.

 

JMO.

 

 

[NickelCity]

I'm the jabroni who didn't read the thread. 

 

But I spent two decades trying to find hope in players who couldn't cut the mustard. 

 

We're spoiled with Allen, and, frankly, it affords me the luxury of not giving a flying **** about other qbs in the league. The only ones that give me pause are ones that have beat us due to their own performance. And in those losses they were shootouts with Allen.

Edited August 21, 2022 by NickelCity

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

I disagree about Brees being a System QB. He made the Pro Bowl in San Diego where his Head Coach was Marty Schottenheimer and his Offensive Coordinator was "the great" Cam Cameron.

 

He lost his job because he got hurt and was a FA at the end of the season the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers.

 

He made the Pro Bowl as a Charger and I recall being in the stadium when he surgically destroyed a Bills defense that featured Sam Adams, Takeo Spikes, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Aaron Schobel, Lawyer Milloy, etc.

 

In his prime Brees could sling the ball with accuracy in a way few QBs can. His ball placement was superb and his velocity transcended his stature.

 

JMO.

 

FIFY but otherwise spot-on.

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

With Jones, a rookie (from Bama, no less), NE foguth for the Division title to the end of the season and won 10 games, made the playoffs. 

 

With Herbert, 2 3rd place finishes, one winning season (9 wins in a 17 game season), zero playoff games.

 

Herbert has the NFL record for most TD’s in first 2 seasons.  The issues in LA are not him.  

[Sierra Foothills]

If Tannenbaum is right about this, it'll be a nice Christmas gift for Patriots fans.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

With Jones, a rookie (from Bama, no less), NE foguth for the Division title to the end of the season and won 10 games, made the playoffs. 

 

With Herbert, 2 3rd place finishes, one winning season (9 wins in a 17 game season), zero playoff games.

Fought for the division title aka coughed up the division title by going 1-3 down the stretch when they started seeing healthy playoff caliber teams then 0-1 in the playoffs.  Seemed like every week the pats were playing a bad team or just running into a good team at the perfect time.  examples:  

browns missing Kareem hunt, nick Chubb, and a few offensive linemen 

 

titans missing Julio jones, AJ brown, Derrick Henry

 

bills  in a ridiculous wind storm

 

their only real quality non flukey win was vs the chargers ironically since it seems like we’re calling them mediocre 😄 

 

NE was an 8 win team last year against an average schedule imo they just caught a lot of breaks. if I were a betting man Id hit the under on this season for them which is currently 8.5.  If mac can get them to the playoffs again then we can certainly talk about him being the real deal. 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I see only greatness from this one: he had the foresight to trademark 'MJ10'.

*
🙄

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

There is the blue medical tent though...

 

 

I am not insecure and I don't appreciate you implicating me like that in front of the others.

 

 

I disagree about Brees being a System QB. He made the Pro Bowl in San Diego where his Head Coach was Marty Schottenheimer and his Offensive Coordinator was "the great" Cam Cameron.

 

He lost his job because the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers.

 

He made the Pro Bowl as a Charger and I recall being in the stadium when he surgically destroyed a Bills defense that featured Sam Adams, Takeo Spikes, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Aaron Schobel, Lawyer Milloy, etc.

 

In his prime Brees could sling the ball with accuracy in a way few QBs can. His ball placement was superb and his velocity transcended his stature.

 

JMO.

 

 

Brees was replaced in SD because he was considered not good enough by the brass there, Brees is first ballot hall of famer in NO. He was literally 30% better statistically in NO per year than in SD, NO built the team around him to their benefit but comparing Brees in both places is crazy because I remember Brees wanted to go to the Dolphins and Miami chose Duante Culpeper.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

10 hours ago, UConn James said:

Have any of these people seen a Mac Jones interview? The guy seems to be perpetually stoned. Literally sounds like and resembles Sean Penn’s Spicoli in “Fast Times…”

 

Cerebral? Only if they’re talking about cerebral *damage.*

Love the reference. Never seen an interview

 

Good grades?

[stuvian]

17 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Interesting debate on this thread regarding Mac Jones’ emotional makeup. I assume @Bill from NYC is a ‘bama fan?

 

clearly Mac & Cheese exceeded expectations. But a few things have struck me regarding his maturity.

 

I will go to my grave believing that the whole “QB competition” between Mac and Cam last year was a Belichick* ruse at Cam’s expense to build up Mac’s confidence. 

 

He was clearly crying at the end of the wild card beat down last season, as Josh Allen was giving him the standard “good game” handshake, to the point that it seemed like he was barely holding it together. 
 

I wouldn’t be bringing up that exchange at all (it was a big game, after all), except that I believe I saw the same tears, and expression yesterday, after his second three-and-out of crappy QB play vs. the Panthers. 
 

I brought this up in another thread. Did anyone else notice this? Second Patriots* offensive series in the first quarter, for those with GamsPass. I’d be interested if anyone else interprets this the way I did. 
 

 

I think we can look forward to Josh wiping away Mac's tears for the foreseeable future

[BuffaninSarasota]

16 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I didnt see that and I dont really have anything to go back and look. Based on things I have seen and a few articles I read, he does seem like the type of guy that looks at himself in the mirror and smacks himself in the face while saying "you are a good QB... you are a good QB" lol.

 

 

[FLFan]

Well, he is a “budding superstar” according to Mike Tannenbaum.  I am sure the hype train will continue to roll in the upcoming season.  

[stuvian]

Oh Tannenbaum Oh Tannenbaum, how quirky are your predictions...

 

[Doc]

Sort of on topic, I was listening to the Max, Jwill and Keyshawn morning show on ESPN Radio on the way to work earlier this week and they had Mike Reiss, who is a Boston sports reporter.  They were talking about how the OC will be Matt Patricia, who has never called a game before.  So Keyshawn chimes in "well, I always thought the OC wasn't that important, it's more the QB coach."  What a moron.

[Bangarang]

Poor man’s Kirk Cousins. He’ll probably have a long career but will be a guy who makes his team good enough to get to the playoffs but not good enough to get far.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Bangarang

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Brees was replaced in SD because he was considered not good enough by the brass there, Brees is first ballot hall of famer in NO. He was literally 30% better statistically in NO per year than in SD, NO built the team around him to their benefit but comparing Brees in both places is crazy because I remember Brees wanted to go to the Dolphins and Miami chose Duante Culpeper.

 

Wrong.

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/remembering-when-nick-sabans-miami-dolphins-chose-daunte-culpepper-over-drew-brees/

[Orlando Tim]

6 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Wrong.

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/remembering-when-nick-sabans-miami-dolphins-chose-daunte-culpepper-over-drew-brees/

Did you read the article? From your article:

 

"leaders of the Dolphins at the time, including legendary college football coach Nick Saban, passed on Brees. They, instead, decided to go with Daunte Culpepper."

 

Which is exactly what I said- if you recognized Brees potential good for you but most did not and he was not an playing like an all time great yet. 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Did you read the article? From your article:

 

"leaders of the Dolphins at the time, including legendary college football coach Nick Saban, passed on Brees. They, instead, decided to go with Daunte Culpepper."

 

Which is exactly what I said- if you recognized Brees potential good for you but most did not and he was not an playing like an all time great yet. 

 

 

I can selectively choose excerpts from the article and play semantic games too but I won't.

 

[Orlando Tim]

9 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I can selectively choose excerpts from the article and play semantic games too but I won't.

 

I did not read entire article, where does it argue against me? 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I did not read entire article, where does it argue against me? 

 

Brees injured his shoulder at the end of the 2004 season.  Very few were sure he'd ever recover to become a top QB again which is why the Chargers let him go in FA and the Dol passed on him.  The Saints took a chance and were richly rewarded.

[Orlando Tim]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Brees injured his shoulder at the end of the 2004 season.  Very few were sure he'd ever recover to become a top QB again which is why the Chargers let him go in FA and the Dol passed on him.  The Saints took a chance and were richly rewarded.

Not sure how that is arguing against my take that the Dolphins did not want him, or my comment that he improved his yards by 30% when he got to NO. Duante was also coming off an injury if I remember correctly.

[Billy Claude]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I did not read entire article, where does it argue against me? 

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Brees injured his shoulder at the end of the 2004 season.  Very few were sure he'd ever recover to become a top QB again which is why the Chargers let him go in FA and the Dol passed on him.  The Saints took a chance and were richly rewarded.

 

To be precise, there is a quote from Nick Saban at the end of the linked article that said that the Dolphins wanted Brees but Brees failed the Dolphins' physical.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Billy Claude
had wrong post quoted

[2ForMacAdoo]

18 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

I was hoping, against all hope, that the Bills would sign Brees..

Brees would not have had anywhere near the success in Orchard Park throwing against that brutal wind that he had in domed Nawlins. Would not have ended well for him in Buffalo.

[Sierra Foothills]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Not sure how that is arguing against my take that the Dolphins did not want him, or my comment that he improved his yards by 30% when he got to NO. Duante was also coming off an injury if I remember correctly.

 

I don't know if it's intentional or not but you're changing the debate.

 

What has been discussed from the beginning is your assertion that Brees is a system QB.

 

I'm done. The last word is yours.

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

18 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I don't know if it's intentional or not but you're changing the debate.

 

What has been discussed from the beginning is your assertion that Brees is a system QB.

 

I'm done. The last word is yours.

 

 

Payton and Brees in a dome is a made for record breaking combination and good for the both of them for accomplishing what they did. I stated from the get go that "System QB" is not an insult but you choose to use it as one. Brees, like Kurt Warner, are both guys who flourished in controlled environments more than outside stadiums, and he had a coach who knew how to use him. The only three QBs currently in league that are good and not system QBs IMO, and Rodgers, Mahomes, and Josh. They could run any system, and as long as the talent is around them they will flourish. Most other QBs need a system that uses their special talents. I know to some it seems obvious but the Bills brass for years did not build teams to benefit our QBs 

[4merper4mer]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:23 AM, Sierra Foothills said:

If Tannenbaum is right about this, it'll be a nice Christmas gift for Patriots fans.

And if my aunt had……..never mind, that no longer applies in 2022.

[Warcodered]