hondo in seattle Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Mickey said: Bob Griese. An okay system QB on a great team with great coaching. Even as a fellow Purdue alum, I agree Griese was not a great QB. But, despite his perfect season, I never hear him mentioned as one. Hard to say he's overrated when most people don't rate or remember him hardly at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Logic said: This. Take him off that Steelers team with the Steel Curtain carrying him to the Super Bowl every year. Put him on any run of the mill team from those years. Give him the same exact stats otherwise. He wouldn't make the Hall of Fame. 51% Career completion percentage. 212 TDs, 210 INTs. Yes, I realize it was a totally different era in terms of QB stats and expectations. Don't care. Bradshaw was lucky to be the quarterback/care taker on a team with a Hall of Fame defense and head coach. Totally overrated, and a total blowhard to boot. Ken Anderson is the proof of what you say. Their careers overlapped so no concerns about eras, Anderson completed 59% of his passes for 197 touchdowns and 160 interceptions and he is not in. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: You ever see Namath play? he absolutely threw one of the best footballs off all time … threw for 4000 yards in 1967 It literally took the bills like 50 years before we had somebody throw for 4000 yards Emmit Smith led the league in rushing four times… Yards per game three times TDs 3 times , average once… yards from scrimmage twice No matter what way you put it those are absolutely Hall of Fame numbers.. He doesn’t have to be your favorite but he absolutely dominated I'm just not a huge Emmit fan. I watched him play and never thought he was nearly as talented as Gale Sayers, OJ, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders or some of the other elite backs of my lifetime. Yes, he was good. He also benefited from a good supporting cast. That, and his longevity, made him the top rusher of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Bettis never Led the league in rushing ,touchdowns or average… Or yards from scrimmage… 3.9 career Smith led the league in rushing four times, Three times touchdown leader, Average leader, Two-time yards from scrimmage leader Even behind a great line those are asinine numbers.. Do I think Thurman was a better all around back? Yes But emmit has first ballad HoF numbers too … he was far more than really good hey, that’s why we are debating this! I would argue that Smith’s success was directly related to his stud oline (not to mention a pretty powerful passing game). Bettis played behind some decent lines, but nothing like the cowboys. And he spent his prime with Mike Tomzak and Kordell as his QB’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Coastie said: Ken Anderson is the proof of what you say. Their careers overlapped so no concerns about eras, Anderson completed 59% of his passes for 197 touchdowns and 160 interceptions and he is not in. Thanks. Exactly the example I was thinking of. Anderson also had 4 Pro Bowls and 1 All-Pro to Bradshaw's 3 Pro Bowls and 1 All-Pro. It all comes down to record and championships. Bradshaw was 107-51 in his career, with 4 titles. Anderson was 91-81 in his career, with 0 titles. If you believe that "QB wins" are a thing, then Bradshaw's HOF selection makes sense. If you believe, as I do, that "QB wins" are not a thing, then Bradshaw's inclusion and Anderson's omission make absolutely no sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherMan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 After todays news I vote Kyler Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said: hey, that’s why we are debating this! I would argue that Smith’s success was directly related to his stud oline (not to mention a pretty powerful passing game). Bettis played behind some decent lines, but nothing like the cowboys. And he spent his prime with Mike Tomzak and Kordell as his QB’s. Emmit Smith isn’t the first or last running back to run behind a amazing line Having an amazing Line doesn’t Make you the four time rushing leader, Or two time yards from scrimmage leader, or 3 time TD champ Yeah an amazing line can get you started but you need real talent to finish it… The hogs of the Redskins had an amazing line for a long time too… They didn’t have anybody lead the league in rushing or touchdowns or average… let alone 4 times 7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: I'm just not a huge Emmit fan. I watched him play and never thought he was nearly as talented as Gale Sayers, OJ, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders or some of the other elite backs of my lifetime. Yes, he was good. He also benefited from a good supporting cast. That, and his longevity, made him the top rusher of all time. Again I don’t think we’re debating if he’s the best running back of all time… I think most would say he’s not But his accolades and statistics and yes even talent clearly have him at a Hall of Fame level… even if he isn’t top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 55 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said: After todays news I vote Kyler Murray. It is funny after the Bills Cardinals game and hail mary I thought he was a true rising star. The subsequent end of that season and last year I think he is very talented but I think he is capped at what he will do. Seems like a lite version of Lamar whose size will eventually catch up to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Brian Bosworth -- The Boz -- at LB Ryan Leaf at QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Duke Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Max Fischer said: My fault, I didn't realize you were just a troll. Lol.... Ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: hey, that’s why we are debating this! I would argue that Smith’s success was directly related to his stud oline (not to mention a pretty powerful passing game). Bettis played behind some decent lines, but nothing like the cowboys. And he spent his prime with Mike Tomzak and Kordell as his QB’s. He's never really in the conversation as the best running back ever - but man... the guy gets trashed because his team was good. I guess its a brady thing too. Patient runner, elite contact balance, tough as hell, and just a tackle breaking machine. He wasn't juking guys out of their shoes, but he cut through a LOT of tackles in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Bettis never Led the league in rushing ,touchdowns or average… Or yards from scrimmage… 3.9 career Smith led the league in rushing four times, Three times touchdown leader, Average leader, Two-time yards from scrimmage leader Even behind a great line those are asinine numbers.. Do I think Thurman was a better all around back? Yes But emmit has first ballad HoF numbers too … he was far more than really good All this is irrelevant..... Read this whole thread, you'll soon realize Bo Jackson is the GOAT RB. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said: All this is irrelevant..... Read this whole thread, you'll soon realize Bo Jackson is the GOAT RB. 😂 Bo Jackson definitely is undeniably talented he was a 4-5 tool baseball player too… his health on the other hand never let him reach his potential … greatest to never be maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Boomer Esiason was way over rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Even as a fellow Purdue alum, I agree Griese was not a great QB. But, despite his perfect season, I never hear him mentioned as one. Hard to say he's overrated when most people don't rate or remember him hardly at all. I don't know. 1977 UPI AFC Player of the year, 2 x first team all pro, 6 pro bowls, NCAA Hall of Fame, won 2 out of 3 Super Bowls, only undefeated season in NFL history and an NFL Hall of Famer and NFL starter for 13 years. Seems like he was pretty highly rated. I grew up listening to what a great leader this guy was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 RB - Terrell Davis I lived in Colorado during the 90's and watched a lot of Broncos football. Yeah, he was a good back, but he was blessed by being able to run behind an incredible offensive line. Anyone could have gained yardage behind those guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reks Ryan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Dan Marino. Excellent passer. But horrible field general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, Bad Things said: RB - Terrell Davis I lived in Colorado during the 90's and watched a lot of Broncos football. Yeah, he was a good back, but he was blessed by being able to run behind an incredible offensive line. Anyone could have gained yardage behind those guys. He just happened to be there at the evolution of the zone running scheme under Shanahan, right? I agree that helped a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Emmitt Smith. He had the luxury of running behind the most physical and athletic OL the NFL had to offer for years. His overall numbers might be "overrated" by some, but he was still 100% worthy of being a first ballot HOFer. He definitely was a great back in his prime, even if not the best. Barry Sanders will always be the best RB I've ever seen, & he would've cruised past all those rushing records had he stuck around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 7 hours ago, aristocrat said: I'm not saying Brady is bad I'm saying he's overrated. I completely disagree on this one. I don't think it's possible, regardless of situation, to overrate ANY QB that went on to win 7 x Super Bowls & play in 10... all during the Free Agency Era where it kept being said dynasties like that would never happen again. Brady as an individual has more rings than any franchise in their entire history. The NFL is hard as hell to be successful in, a LOT has to go right, & you have to be damn good to even win 1 x Super Bowl. Combine that with the fact he's now about to be 45 & still putting up 5,000+ yard seasons? There have been old QB's that won SB's, there have been old QB's that have had good seasons, but to be THAT old & have CONSISTENT success on such a high level? Nobody else compares. The only thing I hate is that the Bills didn't get to be the ones to knock him off his perch. Maybe this year can still be that year. I hate Brady, but I want revenge, not him just leaving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControllerOfPlanetX Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Albert Einstein…until that ankle injury forced him into science…he was nothing special on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Ok, so since I criticized other takes, here's my (admittedly bad) take: The entire 85' Bears, or more specifically, the Defense... I'm not saying they weren't great, but they're so fondly remembered because 1) Chicago market, 2) personalities, 3) peak 80's music video & 4) they won the SB. Based on actual statistics, there are several defenses ahead of them like the '76 Steelers, 2000 Ravens, or even the '91 Eagles. There's even articles breaking down the offenses each defense faced & their potency, which again place others ahead of them. But if you were to stumble upon any article just ranking "Best Defenses in NFL History," I guarantee the '85 Bears will be ranked #1 almost every time. Again, they were all-time great, but they've been elevated to near myth & legend status. Even the best of the best can be elevated to a point that reaches "overrated." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigby Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Not sure how controversial, but I will also put forth Lynn Swann. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 My old school vote goes to Merlin Olson. He was a very smart guy, surrounded by incredible talent. The fearsome foursome was great because Deacon Jones was the DL GOAT of his time. Rosie Greer and Lamar Lundy we’re pretty darned great in their own right. Olson was solid, but was the weak link on that line. He certainly was not the key guy people remember him as. My modern era pick has to be Russell Wilson. We will see how he does in Denver. If he single-handedly takes that team to the promised land, I will gladly admit my mistake. However, up to this point he hasn’t consistently lived up to half the accolades he constantly receives. As we can all proudly say, he ain’t no Josh Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Franco Harris RB Steelers, guy never ran tough and ran out of bounds at any sign of contact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: They probably wouldn't hence why I think he could be considered overrated. Someone who is very talented in the system they run, but also limited in their ability based on the system they run. It's no secret, if you can contain Lamar in the pocket, limit his ability to shred you on the run, and get ahead on the scoreboard you have good odds to beat Jackson and the Ravens. If it was that simple and his abilities were that limited, the Ravens would go 5-11/6-11 with him every season. They dont. Im not sure what NFL games you’re watching. You don’t win an MVP by accident. And you don’t win as many games as he has at QB with the limitations you describe. Not in today’s NFL. Clearly you’re a bit biased. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) My votes: QB: Terry Bradshaw. Geno Smith might have squeaked out 1 SB on those teams… RB: Like others, Emmitt Smith. Nothing about him was great. Nothing. He was the Phillip Rivers of the RB world, except he had great players around him. WR: OBJ. Its hard for me to put a WR here that played prior to the current video game era of football. It wouldn’t be fair, so I won’t. On the other hand, OBJ is living off of a couple phenomenal catches and cool looking hair. He’s always a topic of pregame convos. Lots of mystique. Little substance. Edited July 21, 2022 by bobobonators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, bobobonators said: If it was that simple and his abilities were that limited, the Ravens would go 5-11/6-11 with him every season. They dont. Im not sure what NFL games you’re watching. You don’t win an MVP by accident. And you don’t win as many games as he has at QB with the limitations you describe. Not in today’s NFL. Clearly you’re a bit biased. Clearly, I am not. Did I say he sucks no! Overrated does not mean they suck, just means I perceive his value is a bit overinflated. And yes, his talent appears limited when he has to throw from the pocket, specifically to the outside. My point is he thrives in the system he is in, and yet we have seen when teams have been able to keep him contained, he is not as effective. While he wins in the regular season; post season - not so much. Clearly, you're a bit biased and thinks he can make every throw and would dominate in any system he is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 So many could be nominated here it's unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_D Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) Ricky Williams Poor Ditka Edited July 22, 2022 by the_D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 There are so many just with the QB position alone. off the top of my head T Tebow K Orton J Cutler Overinflated Tyrod Taylor Lamar Jackson Tua T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, BigDingus said: His overall numbers might be "overrated" by some, but he was still 100% worthy of being a first ballot HOFer. He definitely was a great back in his prime, even if not the best. Barry Sanders will always be the best RB I've ever seen, & he would've cruised past all those rushing records had he stuck around. Yeah I didn’t mean that Emmitt wasn’t a very good RB, but I said he was most overrated at his position because at one point the discussion was “who was the greatest RB of all time? Emmitt or Barry?” He’s mentioned among the greats and he wouldn’t even be in my top 5 (Sanders, Brown, Payton, Simpson, Sayers). Top 10? Not sure, but that’s a more debate worthy discussion where he could duke it out with A Peterson, T Thomas, M Faulk, E Dickerson, L Tomlinson, B Jackson, and E Campbell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I never seen him play because I was born in 86 but just based on stats, how about Lynn Swann? I understand the Steelers teams he played for and how good those teams were but he never had more the 61 catches in a season, only had 336 career catches in 9 seasons and only 5400 career receiving yards and somehow he is in the HOF? Again, maybe someone that watched him play could shed some light onto what kind of player he actually was but seems overrated to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 QB - Namath and Griese WR - Lynn Swann RB - Curtis Martin LB - Willie McGinest DL - Howie Long, Cortez Kennedy DB - Ty Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Fred Jackson. Average RB with a cool underdog story that Bills fan can relate to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Clearly, I am not. Did I say he sucks no! Overrated does not mean they suck, just means I perceive his value is a bit overinflated. And yes, his talent appears limited when he has to throw from the pocket, specifically to the outside. My point is he thrives in the system he is in, and yet we have seen when teams have been able to keep him contained, he is not as effective. While he wins in the regular season; post season - not so much. Clearly, you're a bit biased and thinks he can make every throw and would dominate in any system he is in. I don't know why anyone would judge Lamar Jackson by a standard that doesn't apply to him - i.e. a conventional drop back offense. Especially when nobody, so far as I am aware, has ever made the argument that Lamar would excel in that kind of scheme. Do you do the same with other players? Do you say "well Tre White would not be as effective playing in Bill Belichick's defense that asks its corners to play primarily man and uses more cover 1 and cover 0, so he is a bit overrated"? Or "Derek Henry has never caught more than 19 passes in a season and isn't really a shifty runner so wouldn't be as effective as a complimentary piece in a pass first offense like the Bills so he is a bit overrated"? Or is it only Lamar to whom we must apply the standard of "how good would they be at doing something that nobody is asking them to do?" 6 hours ago, streetkings01 said: Fred Jackson. Average RB with a cool underdog story that Bills fan can relate to. I don't think Fred Jackson is overrated. I think he, and Fitz actually, are beloved by Bills fans to a level that outstrips their talent.... but I think fans can differentiate between their love for a player and that player's actual abilities. Edited July 22, 2022 by GunnerBill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritBill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Jamal Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Not a player, but a coach. George Siefert. He should have just hung it up after San Francisco, and headed straight for Canton. But he made a detour at Carolina... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrooter Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 21 hours ago, billybrew1 said: A Buffalo Bill? Phil Hanson. Maybe he was very good at tying up blockers but Bruce Smith needed more from that position, the NT position and biscuit’s position the whole peak of his career. Bruce was basically alone as an impact player till Bryce Paup got here. Hanson as a blocker tyer upper probably wasn’t as good as Fred Smerlas. Blocker tyer uppers have to be really something, imho, to make the wall…. Ted Washington? Yes. Phil Hanson? No….. he ruins the integrity of the whole wall, imho…. Billy the fat, stouter guys on the defensive line are generally a defensive tackle or nose tackle as in the case of both Ted and Fred. Sometimes the long skinnier guys are a defensive end as in the case of Hansen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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