Kathy Hochul: San Diego was interested in taking the Bills away from Buffalo

[Doc]

Why would she lie about SD?  Again the NFL is looking into expansion and that likely means at least 4 more cities (to keep divisions equal) they feel could be good NFL markets.

[Mike in Horseheads]

7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed, but Baltimore wouldn’t fork over the money and the Colts moved - suddenly they find the money and steal the Browns.

 

Cleveland couldn’t find the money and when the Baltimore threat was realized - suddenly Cleveland found the money and then built a stadium for the new Browns.

 

The same goes for St. Louis - lost the Cardinals - built a huge new dome for the Rams.  Oakland lost the Raiders to LA and then got them back and lost them again over Stadium money.  
 

Houston needed a new stadium - lost the Oilers - built a huge new dome for the Texans. LA had 2 teams leave that needed new stadiums and tax breaks - San Diego needed a new stadium - lost the Chargers - why would it be a surprise that suddenly they decided they could force through the tax increase on Hotels that failed and make another nice offer.

 

I would call BS except the exact same thing has happened at least 8 times in the last 30 years and every town that lost a team suddenly found funding to throw at a new team.  
 

Every time.

 

The difference is if the Bills left Buffalo - they were not coming back - we were dead.

 

 

That there says it all! Thanks.

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

buffalo is not a small market…it’s a top 10 market if you factor in the southern Ontario metro area that gets buffalo stations.

Buffalo IS a small market by every metric.  It’s ranked as the 53rd market.  If you were to combine markets in other cities as you suggested, Buffalo would probably rank the same.

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, chongli said:

 

You mean Lucas Oil? The Linc is in Philadelphia. [Grin!] 😅

Thanks for the correction my friend.  You are always on point.  Anyway, hope you’re well.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, Greg S said:

A very legitimate source said there were cities interested in taking the Bills away from Buffalo before the team struck a deal for a new stadium.

On Wednesday, New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said via WNYC radio that cities that specifically lost teams wanted to land the Bills had there been a possibility.

She went on to indicate that San Diego was one.

“I was aware that they were being reached out to by other cities that have lost teams before. That is real,” Hochul said.

“My whole life there was talk of them going to Toronto… Buffalo is a very small market. It is quite extraordinary that they have a team at all,” she added. “Because there’s a lot more money to be had in those larger cities like San Diego and others who would love to have a team. So, that’s a reality most people probably aren’t familiar with.”

Hochul, a western New York native, would be well aware of the Toronto subject.

On March 28, it was officially announced that a $1.4 billion venue would be built for the Bills in Orchard Park next to their current home. The team will be locked into playing there for at least 30 years and will begin in 2026.

The building will officially be an open-air stadium with about a 62,000-seating capacity.

The Bills and the NFL will front $550M for the project. The $850M total from taxpayers covers 61 percent of the total cost of construction.

Other markets that lost NFL franchises in the past include St. Louis and Oakland.

 

Nothing would have pissed me off more than if the team went to san Diego or Oakland.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Sorry I can't post the link but its there.

Also. It is against the TOS here to provide a like. 
 

Copyright and all that 

 

(anyone not liking this message speak to SDS)

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 hours ago, stevewin said:

What about Austin? 😛

That was an unfounded rumour.  Someone said "the Bills are going from great to awesome!", and a hearing impaired reporter heard it differently...🤔

[BarleyNY]

14 hours ago, purple haze said:

True. But she only mentioned San Diego.  There seems to have been other places as well.  Pegula’s would definitely be fronting all the money for a California stadium.  Public money for new stadiums isn’t a thing out here.

Was the city’s interest news to the government in San Diego like it was to the one in Austin?  This “revelation” is just Hochul playing politics and giving herself cover for a sweetheart deal to the Pegulas.  While I am happy that the Bills are staying in WNY, it could’ve been done with a deal that wasn’t nearly this dirty. 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Well San Diego is dead to me now

[Lost]

15 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed, but Baltimore wouldn’t fork over the money and the Colts moved - suddenly they find the money and steal the Browns.

 

Cleveland couldn’t find the money and when the Baltimore threat was realized - suddenly Cleveland found the money and then built a stadium for the new Browns.

 

The same goes for St. Louis - lost the Cardinals - built a huge new dome for the Rams.  Oakland lost the Raiders to LA and then got them back and lost them again over Stadium money.  
 

Houston needed a new stadium - lost the Oilers - built a huge new dome for the Texans. LA had 2 teams leave that needed new stadiums and tax breaks - San Diego needed a new stadium - lost the Chargers - why would it be a surprise that suddenly they decided they could force through the tax increase on Hotels that failed and make another nice offer.

 

I would call BS except the exact same thing has happened at least 8 times in the last 30 years and every town that lost a team suddenly found funding to throw at a new team.  
 

Every time.

 

The difference is if the Bills left Buffalo - they were not coming back - we were dead.

 

 

 

I always wondered why teams would leave cities only to eventually find their way back one way or another.  This explains it.    

 

I agree that there was zero chance a team would ever come back to Buffalo once leaving.   

 

 

30 years from now when the new lease expires, stadiums will be costing in the 20-30 Billion range so $850 million from the state will seem like not such a bad investment.   You can love or hate Kathy Hochul but if her one legacy from her stint as Governor is keeping the Bills in Buffalo that's not a bad way to go out.   

Edited April 14, 2022 by Lost

[May Day 10]

I wonder at what level the contact would be made, and by whom?

 

So would this be the mayor of San Diego contacting the Pegulas and offering them a home?  Would it be just some councilmember trying to gain favor with the voters?  Would this person 'promise' any sort of specific range of funding?  Real estate?  Was there a stadium scribbled on a napkin or ms paint that was provided to the Pegulas?

[Casey D]

The bottom line is that the deal is the cost of having an NFL team and the prestige and community benefits that come with it.  All the editorial writers can rail against it as a waste of taxpayer money, but that argument is in the abstract.  Public dollars fund stadiums all over the country.  Right now Virginia is bending over backwards and throwing money at the Commandos to get them to move. The market indicates you need public money to have a team, see, e.g., San Diego, St. Louis, Oakland.  So for folks who don't give a rat's ass for NFL football, it is a bad deal because the economics never indicate you will more than recoup the public investment.  But the market says different, and for a city like Buffalo, the team is priceless.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Casey D

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, Warcodered said:

and I don't get how people think just because they have multiple billions of dollars means they just have billions of dollars lying around waiting to be thrown at a massive project like this. Large amounts of their NetWorth is going to be tied to assets and investments. This isn't private corporate infrastructure either they won't own the Stadium they'll lease it. If the taxpayers are paying for anything it's to keep the team in their city. Also at what point did I imply I'd feel bad for the Pegula's if they had to spend money? What I said it's not realistic to think they could just drop 1+ billion dollars on something like this.

Oh those poor billionaires, it’s called liquidation of assets to create requisite funds…, or those same billionaires can dupe folk into funding and building their corporate infrastructure through their income being given to said billionaires via a tax levy, it’s a total con job top to bottom. 

11 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

The State/County is not giving them anything.   The State will own the stadium.  The Bills will lease it.  The State will get their money back by year 22 of the deal.  After that it is new revenue.

 

I don’t understand why everybody thinks this is a handout.  It is no different than a commercial developer building a property and leasing it to Starbucks.   No one thinks  greedy Starbucks is getting a handout. 
 

So your good with corporate welfare?

[SoCal Deek]

FYI: The old Chargers stadium has already been demolished and they’ve just finished building a brand new ‘little’ stadium on the property that’ll be the new home of San Diego State. So…to get a new NFL team San Diego is going to have to find a new location. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

16 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

This just reinforces the fact that she was able to get a deal done and secure the long term future for the Bills in WNY. We(fans) can relax and don't have to worry about relocation anymore. SD can wait 34 years now if they want the Bills. By that time I will probably be taking a permanent dirt nap.

Who knows if the NFL will be around in 34 years

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, foreboding said:

Just like player salaries...the cost of building these things is going up and there will be no shortage of suitors. Pay up to have a team. Glad little buffalo/rochester gets to have an NFL franchise. They would never, ever get one in today's market.

 

the market is really larger (not tv wose perhaps). Many fans who moved out of NYS who live in Western Pa, Ohio, etc who routinely travel up for games.   Not to mention the crazy Canadians.  

34 minutes ago, Casey D said:

The bottom line is that the deal is the cost of having an NFL team and the prestige and community benefits that come with it.  All the editorial writers can rail against it as a waste of taxpayer money, but that argument is in the abstract.  Public dollars fund stadiums all over the country.  Right now Virginia is bending over backwards and throwing money at the Commandos to get them to move. The market indicates you need public money to have a team, see, e.g., San Diego, St. Louis, Oakland.  So for folks who don't give a rat's ass for NFL football, it is a bad deal because the economics never indicate you will more than recoup the public investment.  But the market says different, and for a city like Buffalo, the team is priceless.

 

Imagine Sundays in the fall for hotel, bar, restaurant, etc owners without the Bills.  One reason a Dome made more sense to me was to use it year round for large concerts, etc. 

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Buffalo IS a small market by every metric.  It’s ranked as the 53rd market.  If you were to combine markets in other cities as you suggested, Buffalo would probably rank the same.

 

other cities don’t have the large Southern Ontario market hanging there. I believe that markets for other teams take into account nearby areas, but Canada may not be factored into “largest American market”

[Mr. WEO]

If Hochul was a reporter and posted this on twitter, she would get roasted here.

 

She "indicates" "larger cities, like San Diego that would love to have a team" and this becomes " San Diego was interested in taking the Bills away from Buffalo".

 

She only throws this whopper out there as here ship suddenly is taking on water and sinking and the sharks are circling downstate.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

It has been reported by various nefarious sources that an ownership group headed by Tom Brady was behind the effort to bring professional football back to San Diego.  #17 would have backed up the GOAT (self promoter) had the move occurred.

*
🤔

🤨

🙄

[BillsFan4]

17 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed, but Baltimore wouldn’t fork over the money and the Colts moved - suddenly they find the money and steal the Browns.

 

Cleveland couldn’t find the money and when the Baltimore threat was realized - suddenly Cleveland found the money and then built a stadium for the new Browns.

 

The same goes for St. Louis - lost the Cardinals - built a huge new dome for the Rams.  Oakland lost the Raiders to LA and then got them back and lost them again over Stadium money.  
 

Houston needed a new stadium - lost the Oilers - built a huge new dome for the Texans. LA had 2 teams leave that needed new stadiums and tax breaks - San Diego needed a new stadium - lost the Chargers - why would it be a surprise that suddenly they decided they could force through the tax increase on Hotels that failed and make another nice offer.

 

I would call BS except the exact same thing has happened at least 8 times in the last 30 years and every town that lost a team suddenly found funding to throw at a new team.  
 

Every time.

 

The difference is if the Bills left Buffalo - they were not coming back - we were dead.

 

 

Very well said.

 

It sure seems that once a city loses a team they become more desperate to win a new team back.

 

Im sure glad we get to keep our team! Like you said, we’d never get another one. Maybe if we were lucky Toronto would get a team but it certainly wouldn’t be the same.

 

I’m so glad Hochul knows the importance of the Bills to Buffalo and was brave enough to do what it took to keep them (especially with an election quickly approaching), even though I’m sure she knew she’d face backlash.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Oh those poor billionaires, it’s called liquidation of assets to create requisite funds…, or those same billionaires can dupe folk into funding and building their corporate infrastructure through their income being given to said billionaires via a tax levy, it’s a total con job top to bottom. 

And you continue to have a one-sided conversation about feeling bad for billionaires. To the point though it is still not realistic to expect them to create that liquidity(essentially a quarter of their NetWorth) and invest it into a project that you are so upset that the state and county invested less into due to thinking it's a bad investment.

[Rubes]

 

"Go ***** yourself, San Diego."

 

[bigK14094]

I am somewhat amused at those who were against state funding of the new stadium, predominantly NYC folks.  And, NYS did not help with the reno of Yankee stadium...it was NYC that did the public financing of the Yankee stadium project.  Does NY State help the  city with other matters regarding their budget, you bet!  So, the state  taxpayer indirectly helped with the Yankee Stadium project, whereas the state tax payer will be helping directly with the new WNY stadium.   No difference imho.   

 

As for the downtown initiative, as a former season ticket holder (to old to walk in now) I would never try the traffic disaster that a downtown Bills game would be....I have been to Sabres games, and multiple the  cars by5.  That might take all night to clear out of the  city.

[Nextmanup]

21 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

Taking the Chargers to LA was such BS.  As if Los Angles needs two NFL franchises to be uninterested in. 

It's all about the Benjamins! 

 

[wppete]

2 hours ago, Rubes said:

 

"Go ***** yourself, San Diego."

 

[Matt_In_NH]

15 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

buffalo is not a small market…it’s a top 10 market if you factor in the southern Ontario metro area that gets buffalo stations.

Can you provide more information on how you get to top 10?  Why are tickets so cheap?

[RunTheBall]

It was a perfect situation for Pegs. Once Hochul became governor, there was no way she was going to let the Bills walk on her watch. She’d never be able to visit back home again. Pegula had all the leverage and used it.

 

I no longer have the pleasure of paying NYS taxes, my money goes into the RI black hole which is 10x worse than NY, but I appreciate all you taxpayers coughing up some ducats to keep the Bills in WNY!

[Billschinatown]

8 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Taxes are how things get done. Nobody wants to pay them, but everybody wants the benefits from them.

If you've ever been to a third world so much this. Everybody hates taxes but they keep this place from falling apart.

 

I don't know if it equals-- but the Bills bring A LOT of money to NY that wouldn't be there. Whenever I go to a game I accidently end up spending a ton and bring friends most of the time. I think the deal probably keep a ton of "tourist" money that wouldn't be coming in to New York. 

[Helpmenow]

Nice hochul wrong again

[Helpmenow]

23 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I know there are some loyal Bills fans in SoCal, but overall people out there are interested in other things than the NFL.

 

I do love San Diego as a city, and it’s beautiful, but they are nothing like a group like Buffalo people.  We eat, breathe, and bleed red, white, and royal blue.

Haven’t been to national city and San ysidro

5 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Oh, I agree, 100%. I've been to several third world countries.

My feeling about the Stadium financing, is that it puts gambling revenue, to good use.

Upstate New York has the economy of Mississippi, when the five Boroughs, Westchester, and Long Island are removed from the picture. It's about time, that the Queen City got something of substance, in return.

No. She isn't.

Yes she is

I have lived out there they are football fans just Alex Spanos was the one

[muppy]

just as a PS: I have heard zero in regards to this story in any of the mainstream sports channels, CBS nothing here locally. I think it was all a big bunch of hot air . Plus it is baseball season and San Diego IS a supporting MLB town #Padres

[Helpmenow]

Padres got the downtown gig and chargers couldn’t get a deal

[eball]

WHO.  CARES.

 

We have our Bills.  We have a stadium deal.  We have the best QB in the league.

 

LIFE IS GOOD

[muppy]

22 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Yeah, because they are going to go public, with an unborn private transaction. We know everything going on behind the scenes, don’t we???

We have our football team for 30 years onward, so go ahead, and assign some vague political feces, to a great outcome for Bills fans, and Western New York.

well no Im not disparaging the fact the Bills are staying more the insinuation they would ever leave.  geesh @-@ as if I would ever crap on the bills mafia. a big reach right there. I am a 30 plus years resident of san diego lifelong bills fan. ANYTHING in local media I would have noticed. and there was zero talk of this that I saw thats IT.....

Edited April 14, 2022 by muppy

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Do you *live* there, or have you *lived* there????

I bristel at people who throw dog crap, on a great outcome. The Gov., who is a Buffalo native, got it done. 

piffle to the first part and hallelujah to the second. Im out geesh...

 

 

[Helpmenow]

I don’t care if she is a native.

32 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Do you *live* there, or have you *lived* there????

I bristel at people who throw dog crap, on a great outcome. The Gov., who is a Buffalo native, got it done. 

So you haven’t lived there 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Helpmenow

[djp14150]

5 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

Can you provide more information on how you get to top 10?  Why are tickets so cheap?

media markets only include US population. It does not include the Canadian population.  Advertisers know Buffalo is a big market.  Buffalo radio and tv broadcast area includes most of Toronto- Hamilton area.  You add that population…buffalo is in the same ballpark as Bay Area and DC- Baltimore innthe top 10.

[Matt_In_NH]

15 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

media markets only include US population. It does not include the Canadian population.  Advertisers know Buffalo is a big market.  Buffalo radio and tv broadcast area includes most of Toronto- Hamilton area.  You add that population…buffalo is in the same ballpark as Bay Area and DC- Baltimore innthe top 10.

Toronto is not the Buffalo market.  No way  Buffalo is a tiny market.   It’s ok

[Mr. WEO]

San Diego right now:  "huh?"

 

Austin:  "I know, right?"

[purple haze]

15 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Was the city’s interest news to the government in San Diego like it was to the one in Austin?  This “revelation” is just Hochul playing politics and giving herself cover for a sweetheart deal to the Pegulas.  While I am happy that the Bills are staying in WNY, it could’ve been done with a deal that wasn’t nearly this dirty. 

Maybe, maybe not.  You assume Hochul wasn’t  telling the truth and those other  government officials were.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  The intel she divulged probably came from the Pegula’s reps and is that game of chicken one you would have wanted her to play?  I wouldn’t.  As opposed to folks jumping on this deal ask why Buffalo and the other parts of the state continue to trail behind downstate decade after decade.  Hasn’t been a new football stadium in 50 years.  So where have all those tax dollars for more important things gone?  Under Democratic and Republican leadership at that.  Just a rhetorical question.

 

 The Bills are going to be where they belong going forward.  Good for Bills fans.  This is one instance where I don’t particularly care how it happened 

Edited April 15, 2022 by purple haze

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, purple haze said:

Maybe, maybe not.  You assume Hochul wasn’t  telling the truth and those other  government officials were.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  The intel she divulged probably came from the Pegula’s reps and is that game of chicken one you would have wanted her to play?  I wouldn’t.  As opposed to folks jumping on this deal ask why Buffalo and the other parts of the state continue to trail behind downstate decade after decade.  Hasn’t been a new football stadium in 50 years.  So where have all those tax dollars for more important things gone?  Under Democratic and Republican leadership at that.  Just a rhetorical question.

 

 The Bills are going to be where they belong going forward.  Good for Bills fans.  This is one instance where I don’t particularly care how it happened 

Well we KNOW Hochul lied about Austin.  San Diego makes little sense too.  I am just being realistic about that.  I also think we should all be realistic about the necessity of building the Bills a stadium.  Something had to be done or the Pegulas would have moved them somewhere.  Zero argument there.  Ditto WNY getting state funds.
 

But there is a lot to hate about this deal.  $850M in public funds for construction plus another $280M for upkeep is very, very steep.  Of the remaining $550M in construction costs the NFL is footing $200M and the Pegulas will be responsible for $350M.  But that won’t be from their pockets, it will come from fans in the form of PSLs.  Their investment will be zero or close to zero. 
 

Then there’s the very dirty mechanics of the deal.  The state money isn’t coming from downstate, $565M of the $600M is coming from Seneca Nation.  NYS is forcing them to pay 25% of their gross (not net) revenue to run their casinos.  They had a contract for that where payments ended in 2016 after 14 years.  In return SN was supposed to get exclusively on most of their gambling operations.  NYS did not uphold that end of the bargain and the period of payment had ended anyway so SN has not had contractual obligations to pay since 2016.  NYS contested that and thus the money was put into escrow.  NYS did get a judgement in the case, but SN appealed.  Rather than allow the legal proceeding to continue SN was forced to pay when Hochul froze all of the SN accounts.  Not just the account where they escrowed the disputed funds (which weren’t being spent anyway), all of SN’s accounts.  Oh and it’s Key Bank that did that.  The same one whose name is on the Sabres arena.

 

Then there’s Delaware North’s involvement.  Not only do they run concessions for sports teams, including the Bills and Sabres they are huge in the gaming industry.  They have a big interest in the expansion of that industry and the continued payments of SN certainly hinder their ability to compete in that industry.  25% of gross sales is crippling.  Oh and Kathy Hochul’s husband, William Hochul, is general counsel and senior Vice President and Secretary at Delaware North.

 

I know most people don’t know any of that (the mainstream local and national medias sure isn’t talking about it) and that most won’t care anyway.  And I know how I will get treated here as the messenger.  But this really makes me sick.  It’s just the wealthiest getting richer off of the poorest people.  The big winners here are the Pegulas and Delaware North.  The Hochuls are personally going to do very, very well too.  The WNY fans get to keep the Bills.  That is something at least, but they’ll pay for it with PSLs (I’m guessing about $350M worth) and an additional $250M in taxes.  A bunch of poor Seneca Nation people will just have to stay that way though.

 

I was hopeful that Hochul would be better than Cuomo, but somehow she might actually be worse.  There’s my rant so I’ll leave this here.