*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And so it begins...

 

 

If the Browns can get a haul for Mayfield, I'd ship him without question.

 

Their offense revolves around the running game.  I believe they could get similar production from Jimmy Garoppolo without having to break the bank and also not having to tie their hands for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Southern Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Another OSU QB. This one is different from Fields/Haskins/Barrett/Jones, we swear.

No kidding. YOLO had Cardale Jones on his way to the HOF a couple of years ago. 

[YoloinOhio]

January in Berea!

 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why do people continuously ONLY state passing production when discussing running QBs?  You know that’s short sighted and skewed to just try and confirm your negative opinion of him.

 

Lamar’s ground game is 100% part of what you get with him, ignoring it or disregarding that production is a completely inaccurate way to evaluate his value to his team.

 

To say Huntley is flat out better at this stage like you did in the post before that seems extreme and not based on known facts yet.  
 

Personally, I don’t think Lamar is going anywhere and will get a long term deal to stay in Baltimore.  Mayfield is not so clear and somethings gonna likely change there between Baker, HC, or GM.  I have a suspicion that not all 3 will be back next year the way it is now, seems like something is gonna give.

 

Well said.   It's especially ironic given that many of those same posters discounting Jackson's running ability lionize Allen for his.  I think it's spelled H-0-M-E-R.

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

No kidding. YOLO had Cardale Jones on his way to the HOF a couple of years ago. 

? No I didn’t.

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He definitely has two outstanding young receivers. I think Tee Higgins is a #1 and Chase clearly is a #1. He has two more years at least throwing to that pair. I have to say I have a knock on Herbert's fundamentals. I think his gets loose with his release and his footwork too often for my tastes. I'd go Mahomes #1, Allen #2, Burrow #3.

Yeah I agree on that, it’s definitely a fair criticism of Hebert and I have no issue putting Burrow at 3 instead even though I would personally narrowly go Herbert at 3 just more because he has some ability with his legs too.  
 

Tee Higgins has really blossomed this year for sure, and I also think he is a #1 WR too even though I think Chase is the better of the two.  But it’s not a wide gap by any means and Higgins would be the best WR on a lot of teams in the league right now himself.  
 

I liked Higgins in the draft when so many here were knocking him.  If memory serves me, I believe you liked him too.  I was comfortable if the Bills would have taken him in the first with their pick had they made that pick.  I was also high on Justin Jefferson too despite a lot of people not wanting him.  JJ was my target at 22, Higgins was my second choice.  I was not high on Ruggs and didn’t get why so many were.  But I did expect Juedy, Lamb and Ruggs to all be gone before our pick too.
 

Of course, I loved the Diggs trade both then and now still, and would still make the trade for Diggs as I fully believe his experience along with his talent played a big role in Allens ascension.  And his contract is still a tremendous value.  But had we not made the trade, I was good landing either of those guys that draft. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Mojo44]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why do people continuously ONLY state passing production when discussing running QBs?  You know that’s short sighted and skewed to just try and confirm your negative opinion of him.

 

Lamar’s ground game is 100% part of what you get with him, ignoring it or disregarding that production is a completely inaccurate way to evaluate his value to his team.

 

To say Huntley is flat out better at this stage like you did in the post before that seems extreme and not based on known facts yet.  
 

Personally, I don’t think Lamar is going anywhere and will get a long term deal to stay in Baltimore.  Mayfield is not so clear and somethings gonna likely change there between Baker, HC, or GM.  I have a suspicion that not all 3 will be back next year the way it is now, seems like something is gonna give.

I totally agree with your take on Lamar.  The bottom line is that he wins games. This is the only statistic that matters.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

I totally agree with your take on Lamar.  The bottom line is that he wins games. This is the only statistic that matters.

A lot of games too

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, jlgarsh said:

Brees had a good 2nd year didn't he? Slumped 3rd year, went ights out when Rivers drafted. Then SD let him go after the shoulder injury. Wild

 

He had an OK 2nd year.  18 TD to 17 INTs, 200-ish ypg, 6.2 ypa.

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

January in Berea!

 

One thing I have always respected about Baker is he tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches.  Applaud him for calling out the medias flimsy stories all the time

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

No kidding. YOLO had Cardale Jones on his way to the HOF a couple of years ago. 

Have you see Dwayne Haskins arm talent!!

[Motorin']

14 hours ago, stuvian said:

If the Ravens don't sign Lamar, they're Chicago Bears level stupid. He has carried that team on his back to the point of absurdity.

 

The Browns should release Baker. He's not a fit for their offense. Baker should go to the Saints and insert himself as Drew Brees 2.0. Not saying he's as good as Brees but he's a better fit for their fast break turf offense.

 

So the question becomes what should the Browns do at QB. They need an arm who can compliment the power run game and play well in the cold.

 

As this QB draft appears weak, we look to the FA market. Even throwing in the kitchen sink I don't see Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson going there.

 

They could entice Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins or opt for Deshaun Watson pending the legal issues. They'll need an experienced back up who can carry the team for a few games like Cam Newton, Teddy Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor or Joe Flacco.

 

Agree on Lamar. I think the Browns should look for Ryan Tannehill 2.0...

 

Maybe Marcus Mariota would do well executing a ground and pound, RPO, play action offense?

[eball]

All of you replying to @FilthyBeast as if he's a legitimate Bills fan have me like...

 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Oh my goodness. Allen's statistics speak for themselves. He has historically great statistics for the first 4 years of a QB's career.

 

This take is just laughable and wrong on so many levels. You really are blind to the reality.

 

What experts are saying anything besides the fact that Allen is an elite QB?

What experts? Tell me. Give me examples.

 

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

 

 

[Draconator]

7 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

 

 

 

Well you're definitely not in the top 1,295,367 posters on TBD...

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Herbert has 1 more passing TD than Allen, one less Interception, and two less total TDs than Allen. 

 

The Bills offense averages 28.5 ppg, the Chargers average 27.6 ppg. 

 

So if Herbert is the gold standard, he's better on passing yardage, completion percentage, but Allen means just as much to this offense and is a better runner. 

[DrDawkinstein]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

One thing I have always respected about Baker is he tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches.  Applaud him for calling out the medias flimsy stories all the time

 

Or, he could just play better and not have to be in spats with the media all the time.

[MJS]

22 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

Pro Bowl voting is your answer? Wow.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

January in Berea!

 

 

You and a couple others here might be better plugged-in, but my impression of Mary Kay Cabot is that she’s generally well respected and “plugged in” with Browns sources.

 

The story she wrote is here:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/browns-qb-baker-mayfield-must-resolve-his-differences-with-kevin-stefanski-soon-in-case-they-need-to-co-exist-next-season-mary-kay-cabot.html

(It’s subscriber-only but one can log in for 1 free story)

 

She gives quotes from Baker on 2 occasions and from Stefanski to bolster the contention that they aren’t on the same page.

Quote

 Mayfield publicly criticized the playcalling on at least two occasions, saying after the 24-22 victory over the Ravens that the calls “got too conservative” and after the 26-14 loss to the Steelers that rookie right tackle James Hudson III wasn’t given enough chipping help against T.J. Watt

 

Quote

 Mayfield lamented the lack of in-game adjustments to the Steelers’ pressure.

“This is the NFL,” he said. “You have to be able to adapt midgame and we didn’t do a good enough job as you could tell.”

 

I’ve never heard Allen say anything like that.  He’s always “I need to find a few more completions….I can’t put the ball in harm’s way like that” - it’s only very recently in a couple of pressers that I’ve heard him say “we”….and it’s followed with “and that starts with me.”  Likewise I’ve never heard McDermott or Daboll say anything like this about Josh Allen:

 

Quote

Asked Wednesday about his relationship with Mayfield, Stefanski said “in terms of relationship with any of the players, it’s something we always as coaches work on and try to challenge our guys and support our guys, so I feel no different with Baker.

 

It’s always “I have full confidence in Josh” or “I believe in Josh, that’ll never change” after the Falcons game with the two tipped picks “he’s going to have days like that”

 

It’s hard to know what her sources were for some of the other stuff, like “Mayfield’s issues with Stefanski bubbled below the surface most of the season, with Mayfield feeling like Stefanski’s playcalling didn’t always put him in position to succeed or play to his strengths, sources told cleveland.com” or “If Mayfield doesn’t get reassurance that things will change next season, he’ll consider asking to be traded. He’s under contract for $18.858 million in his fifth-year option year” but Mayfield specifically saying “I’m not your puppet”  seems to imply that he or someone close to him in fact said stuff to Cabot, but doesn’t agree with how it was interpreted or the way the story was put together - maybe he thinks the context was misrepresented or something.

 

But it seemed pretty straightforward that Mayfield did very well with the play-action bootlegs that were a mainstay last year, and didn’t seem as comfortable with some of the playcalling this season, and he has said some stuff publicly which Cabot quoted.

 

It doesn’t seem like a “fair call” to say she has no sources or facts.

[Stank_Nasty]

27 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

 

 

i've seen 3 former players in the last 3 weeks put out top 5 qb lists that all have Allen in it. Not top 5 in the conference. Top 5 in the NFL.

 

Saturday, Scott, and Clark. Meanwhile Orvlosky said he'd be 5B to Burrows 5A... see how that works. thats actual names behind my claims. or maybe they're just bills homers too?

 

as a sidenote i've also seen 2 different analysts say it was a complete joke that Jackson got in over Allen.... Becaust thats what it was. A complete joke.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Stank_Nasty

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

56 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

January in Berea!

 

Technically not a puppet, but you could  glue a popsicle stick to its butt, and use it as one.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

One thing I have always respected about Baker is he tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches.  Applaud him for calling out the medias flimsy stories all the time

 

He does?  I kind of feel like he creates his own drama and then finger-points at others for it.  He carries grudges against the press - who was that one reporter he had a public spat with a couple years ago?  And as Cabot reported, Mayfield refused to make himself available for the required media press conference after the Lions win. That ain’t a brave guy who “tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches”, that’s a guy who doesn’t want to face the music of tough press questions, even when it’s music he’s contractually obligated to face.

 

Not that the media doesn’t put out flimsy stories at times, but (see above) my impression is that Cabot in general is a careful and credible reporter, and telling her “he’s not her puppet” IMHO implies that he legitimately provided some of the material in the story and didn’t like the way she “spun” it, not that she didn’t have legit sources.

[JGMcD2]

36 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

 

 

Explain to me how the Pro Bowl voting works, @FilthyBeast

[SactoBillFan]

44 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The players and coaches that determine who is a probowl player, they certainly qualify as experts.

 

They determined that Josh Allen is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC conference this year.

 

 

Deliberately left out the fans. Who obviously are not experts.

[Albany,n.y.]

Mayfield is a coach killer.  Killed off Jackson & Kitchens, now can't get along with his 3rd head coach.  

Darnold may not have personality clashes but his play on the field kills coaches too.  

There are a lot more coach killing QBs than coaches who ruin QBs.  

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The bottom line is if you are going to pay a guy $250M dollars you better be damn sure he's an elite top 3 QB in this league and wins multiple SB's in the near term or it's makes zero sense to do that. The more logical thing is to aware someone after they have risen to the top like Mahomes.

 

Mahomes was a league MVP in year two (essentially his rookie season since he only played the season finale his first year), won a SB in year 3 and made it to another in year four. I believe his deal came after year 3 which is fine.

 

Experts in this league (not fans like us) felt Allen wasn't even the top 3 QB in his own conference this year, so again what does this say? But can you really argue with them after he craps all over himself in a game against a terrible Falcons team after having such a great performance the prior week? Also what accolades does he have other than one AFCCG appearance in that you can argue wasn't really on his shoulders (at least not the Ravens game).

 

Again, this goes back to the point that Allen's contract was probably premature. But if he goes on to win a SB this year then case closed regardless of his stats and horrendous outings he had during the regular season.

 

 

 

 

So the lack of a running game in Buffalo (though last Sunday there was glimmer of one) along with known problems with the offensive line (again maybe at some level of under repair) fall under the responsibility of Josh Allen. The guy has put the team on his back and carried it except for last week.  He is a once in a generation talent and I am glad the Bills were smart and came to a reasonable agreement with him.

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Mayfield is a coach killer.  Killed off Jackson & Kitchens, now can't get along with his 3rd head coach.  

Darnold may not have personality clashes but his play on the field kills coaches too.  

There are a lot more coach killing QBs than coaches who ruin QBs.  

 

Had issues at the time with Kingsbury as well

[cle23]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He does?  I kind of feel like he creates his own drama and then finger-points at others for it.  He carries grudges against the press - who was that one reporter he had a public spat with a couple years ago?  And as Cabot reported, Mayfield refused to make himself available for the required media press conference after the Lions win. That ain’t a brave guy who “tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches”, that’s a guy who doesn’t want to face the music of tough press questions, even when it’s music he’s contractually obligated to face.

 

Not that the media doesn’t put out flimsy stories at times, but (see above) my impression is that Cabot in general is a careful and credible reporter, and telling her “he’s not her puppet” IMHO implies that he legitimately provided some of the material in the story and didn’t like the way she “spun” it, not that she didn’t have legit sources.

 

 

Mary Kay Cabot is a quack.  She writes articles for drama and clicks.  She has decent content sometimes, but she then writes headlines for said article in order to create drama.  I know clicks = money, but she isn't a great representative of a great and fair reporter.

7 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Mayfield is a coach killer.  Killed off Jackson & Kitchens, now can't get along with his 3rd head coach.  

Darnold may not have personality clashes but his play on the field kills coaches too.  

There are a lot more coach killing QBs than coaches who ruin QBs.  

 

Hue Jackson went 1-31 before Mayfield.  So he killed himself with his inflated ego.  Kitchens is the fault of John Dorsey.  Hired him WAY before he was ever ready.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

So the lack of a running game in Buffalo (though last Sunday there was glimmer of one) along with known problems with the offensive line (again maybe at some level of under repair) fall under the responsibility of Josh Allen. The guy has put the team on his back and carried it except for last week.  He is a once in a generation talent and I am glad the Bills were smart and came to a reasonable agreement with him.

 

If we had waited a year on the deal it likely would have been more expensive.  It also likely can run close to camp, creating a possible holdout issue.  

 

Murray will be the one to get paid this offseason.  Herbert and Burrow will be the year after most likely.  All likely start the negotiation at the Josh allen contract.  

[billsfan1959]

3 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sorry been tied up with some things so I could respond sooner.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and again I'm not disputing Allen being in the upper 3rd of NFL QB's from a statistical standpoint.  He is and only a fool would tell you otherwise.

 

The crux of my argument is that you have to look at the accolades that matter (at least in terms of the 'experts') and prior to 2021 Allen had one good season on film which many felt (and still feel) was fluky because of the covid year circumstances. So if we are debating the fact that his extension was given on potential that's another thing, but in terms of being a proven commodity Allen really isn't yet unless he can elevate this team to another level in the playoffs and at minimum make another AFCCG appearance.

 

But going back to my personal feelings, I'm still taking the guys I mentioned over Allen today because I'm not a biased fan and have seen more pure raw talent to believe they are going to be all time great HOF types that win multiple championships and/or elevate their teams. Allen could be too but still think the odds are against that if anything because of how inconsistent he still is 4 years into his career.

 

I'm not sure if anything matters more than producing and winning. Allen has won 10+ games and made the playoffs in each of his first three full seasons as a starter and took his team to the AFCCG last year. During that time, only Rodgers produced more TDs, only Mahomes and Brady produced more yards, and only Rodgers, Mahomes, and Brady won more games. He accounts for a higher percentage of his teams offensive yards and touchdown than any player in the NFL. Only 7 players in NFL history produced more total yards in their first 60 games, and only three players in NFL history produced more TDs in their first 60 games.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Baker to New Orleans.

 

Cousins to Cleveland.

[YoloinOhio]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He does?  I kind of feel like he creates his own drama and then finger-points at others for it.  He carries grudges against the press - who was that one reporter he had a public spat with a couple years ago?  And as Cabot reported, Mayfield refused to make himself available for the required media press conference after the Lions win. That ain’t a brave guy who “tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches”, that’s a guy who doesn’t want to face the music of tough press questions, even when it’s music he’s contractually obligated to face.

 

Not that the media doesn’t put out flimsy stories at times, but (see above) my impression is that Cabot in general is a careful and credible reporter, and telling her “he’s not her puppet” IMHO implies that he legitimately provided some of the material in the story and didn’t like the way she “spun” it, not that she didn’t have legit sources.

He really should just tell the media that there is no truth to the report. Then later  pick up the phone and call Mary Kay  and let her know her story is false, and give her the “real” story or whatever he wants out there. The way he approached it was continuing the drama-stirring and immature but that’s how he is. 

she’s not just making it up for click bait. Which is what he’s accusing her of doing. Someone gave her the info. The source could be wrong, but she didn’t just make it up. Mary Kay doesn’t have some agenda. She’s often been painted as being too kind to the browns and the beat reporters are afraid to be overly critical because they want access. It’s one of the softest nfl media out there. Usually if they report something negative it’s because they have the info and have no choice, it’s her job. 

[Inigo Montoya]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

If we had waited a year on the deal it likely would have been more expensive.  It also likely can run close to camp, creating a possible holdout issue.  

 

Murray will be the one to get paid this offseason.  Herbert and Burrow will be the year after most likely.  All likely start the negotiation at the Josh allen contract.  

 

I agree.  The Troll in this thread makes a big deal about the $40 a year contract Josh got.  In three years, scrub QBs are going to be getting $50+ a year with the cap exploding from the new TV contract and new gambling money that is going to start flooding into the the NFL.   Josh's contract is going to give the Bills years of competitive advantage over any team that has to ink their QBs to a new contract after this year.  

 

When Murray, Herbert, and Burrow resign they will be averaging $50 - $55 million a year.

 

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He does?  I kind of feel like he creates his own drama and then finger-points at others for it.  He carries grudges against the press - who was that one reporter he had a public spat with a couple years ago?  And as Cabot reported, Mayfield refused to make himself available for the required media press conference after the Lions win. That ain’t a brave guy who “tells you like it is and doesn’t pull punches”, that’s a guy who doesn’t want to face the music of tough press questions, even when it’s music he’s contractually obligated to face.

 

Not that the media doesn’t put out flimsy stories at times, but (see above) my impression is that Cabot in general is a careful and credible reporter, and telling her “he’s not her puppet” IMHO implies that he legitimately provided some of the material in the story and didn’t like the way she “spun” it, not that she didn’t have legit sources.

 

I don't follow him that closely anymore, so not really aware or familiar with those other incidents to be honest.  For me, I just appreciate when a player calls out reporters in general, who have less and less accountability in sports reporting and get to hind behind alleged "sources" all the time.  Media always looking to manufacture stories for clicks with these athletes.  

 

So its less about Baker I suppose and more of me not being a fan of the lack of accountability in sports reporting with things like this, so I generally enjoy when someone isn't afraid to call them out in those cases.  

[MJS]

23 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Mayfield is a coach killer.  Killed off Jackson & Kitchens, now can't get along with his 3rd head coach.  

Darnold may not have personality clashes but his play on the field kills coaches too.  

There are a lot more coach killing QBs than coaches who ruin QBs.  

Or all those coaches just weren't very good.

 

Hey, I'm not defending Mayfield. I think he is not turning out to be a good QB, but the Browns are underperforming in all aspects. They are loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They have one of the best olines in the NFL, two good running backs, good recievers and TE's, perhaps the #1 edge rusher in the game, and talent all over that defense.

 

If you are underperforming with that much talent, that has to be on the coaches. Mayfield may not be great, but he is at least serviceable.

[cle23]

8 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I agree.  The Troll in this thread makes a big deal about the $40 a year contract Josh got.  In three years, scrub QBs are going to be getting $50+ a year with the cap exploding from the new TV contract and new gambling money that is going to start flooding into the the NFL.   Josh's contract is going to give the Bills years of competitive advantage over any team that has to ink their QBs to a new contract after this year.  

 

When Murray, Herbert, and Burrow resign they will be averaging $50 - $55 million a year.

 

 

By then, if contracts are exploding like you say, odds are Allen will ask for a new contract.  He isn't going to sit at $40M if average Joe's are getting $50M.

[BillsfaninSB]

Drought era Bills would be all in on trading for Baker. 

[DCofNC]

7 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

By then, if contracts are exploding like you say, odds are Allen will ask for a new contract.  He isn't going to sit at $40M if average Joe's are getting $50M.

This is why Josh’s deal was better than Maholmes’.  He’ll get to re set the market again, Maholmes will likely never get to.  Allen got paid almost as much AND gets to go again in his prime, Maholmes will be in the league for 13 years by the time he gets another shot at being a FA, not great. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Baker to New Orleans.

 

Cousins to Cleveland.

 

Cousins deal at 35M is pretty hefty.  Is he worth the 20+ mill increase in cap charge?  You could just keep baker and sign someone like mariota or trubisky for insurance.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Baker to New Orleans.

 

Cousins to Cleveland.

Aunt Muriel to Brothers of Mercy? 🤔