How to fix the reffing problem in the NFL

[QB Bills]

Like many others here, I'm still seething about that game for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which was that awful showing by the referees.

 

This isn't a novel concept, I don't believe. If I remember correctly, Bill Belichick floated the idea years ago. To fix the reffing issue, make every play/infraction challengeable with the caveat that you get two wrong challenges per game (punishable by yardage and/or losing a timeout).

 

The big pushback on this would be that it would seriously slow the game down (especially if you're of the thought that there is holding on every play) but I think if you give more manpower and authority to off-field officials who are reviewing plays as they happen, this would minimize the delay. The way it is now, 90% of the time the tv viewer knows whether a challenge is going to be successful way earlier than the on-field refs receive the message and announce it. The process is incredibly ridiculous if you think about it.

[transient]

OP, you accidentally added an “r” to “effing”.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards maximum. It's the only penalty over 15 yards. Also defensive holding needs to stop being automatic 1st downs. 

 

Easiest fix. I don't normally get angry with officials because it's a hard job. They're down on the field at real speed. We watch from above, then watch slow replays.

 

I wonder if they allowed the sky judge to correct these calls. Maybe give him like 30 seconds to decide if a penalty stands or not. I can typically watch a replay and decide in a few seconds.

[NewEra]

Never gonna happen.  
 

Adding technology and giving more power to adjust calls with the eye in the sky.  Adjusting the rules to overlook some penalties that have zero bearing on the play, ex: If the opposite side WR is holding and has no impact on the play, let it go.

 

Too bad the nfl doesn’t want to fix the “problem”.  I don’t think there’s a problem in their eyes. 

[Mynamemike]

I liked how the xfl did it.  A camera inside the booth and let you listen to what’s being said.  No chance the nfl is that transparent but something similar would be nice.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Never gonna happen.  
 

Adding technology and giving more power to adjust calls with the eye in the sky.  Adjusting the rules to overlook some penalties that have zero bearing on the play, ex: If the opposite side WR is holding and has no impact on the play, let it go.

 

Too bad the nfl doesn’t want to fix the “problem”.  I don’t think there’s a problem in their eyes. 

What is wrong with using technology?

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Never gonna happen.  
 

Adding technology and giving more power to adjust calls with the eye in the sky.  Adjusting the rules to overlook some penalties that have zero bearing on the play, ex: If the opposite side WR is holding and has no impact on the play, let it go.

 

Too bad the nfl doesn’t want to fix the “problem”.  I don’t think there’s a problem in their eyes. 

They won't see a problem until fans decide they've had enough and stop supporting the product by hitting the league and their sponsors in the wallet.  

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards maximum. It's the only penalty over 15 yards. Also defensive holding needs to stop being automatic 1st downs. 

 

Easiest fix. I don't normally get angry with officials because it's a hard job. They're down on the field at real speed. We watch from above, then watch slow replays.

 

I wonder if they allowed the sky judge to correct these calls. Maybe give him like 30 seconds to decide if a penalty stands or not. I can typically watch a replay and decide in a few seconds.

That’ll just erase several big plays and we’ll be watching DPI instead of great plays.  
 

watching from above 💯 👌 love it. add more cameras and 2 more eyes in the sky  to monitor the plays in real time, multiple monitors.  If the field ref on the take makes a terrible call, the eye should be able to fix it.  Whether it’s by picking up a flag and negating a penalty, changing spots, throwing a flag themselves.  Getting things correct doesn’t have to take long time.   
 

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What is wrong with using technology?

Huh?  I’m advocating for using technology 

 

i just don’t think it’s going to happen…. Or it would have already happened.  Maybe in another decade or so

Edited December 14, 2021 by NewEra

[BuffaloRebound]

You need a camera on every player on the field.  And 22 refs in a booth somewhere watching every player.  That’s the only way to get some consistency in the officiating.  The refs on the field are put into an almost impossible position every week.  They have worse angles than what everyone at home can see.  

[djp14150]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards maximum. It's the only penalty over 15 yards. Also defensive holding needs to stop being automatic 1st downs. 

 

Easiest fix. I don't normally get angry with officials because it's a hard job. They're down on the field at real speed. We watch from above, then watch slow replays.

 

I wonder if they allowed the sky judge to correct these calls. Maybe give him like 30 seconds to decide if a penalty stands or not. I can typically watch a replay and decide in a few seconds.

 

there are two type of PI flagrant is a spot foul. These are clear and obvious. Not flagrant is a 10 yd penalty.

 

flagrant is clearly defined so non calls can be buzzed by the video official or challenged without risk.  Same with face mask and horse collar penalties that are not called. On face mask it has to be something more than just a hand on the mask but a shift or pull of helmet needs to be obvious.

 

the video official can call penalties without a big stoppage.

 

Plays like was it a fumble/ pick/ score plays are reviewable on challenge but not cost a TO. Thry can also be re erased by video without challenge.

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

32 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

Like many others here, I'm still seething about that game for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which was that awful showing by the referees.

 

This isn't a novel concept, I don't believe. If I remember correctly, Bill Belichick floated the idea years ago. To fix the reffing issue, make every play/infraction challengeable with the caveat that you get two wrong challenges per game (punishable by yardage and/or losing a timeout).

 

The big pushback on this would be that it would seriously slow the game down (especially if you're of the thought that there is holding on every play) but I think if you give more manpower and authority to off-field officials who are reviewing plays as they happen, this would minimize the delay. The way it is now, 90% of the time the tv viewer knows whether a challenge is going to be successful way earlier than the on-field refs receive the message and announce it. The process is incredibly ridiculous if you think about it.

Before doing all this, why not just make being a ref a full time job? This way they can learn all the rules and exactly what the mean and when and how to enforce them. Why you have part timers doing a job that can change a game is so dumb! 

[LABILLBACKER]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That’ll just erase several big plays and we’ll be watching DPI instead of great plays.  
 

watching from above 💯 👌 love it. add more cameras and 2 more eyes in the sky  to monitor the plays in real time, multiple monitors.  If the field ref on the take makes a terrible call, the eye should be able to fix it.  Whether it’s by picking up a flag and negating a penalty, changing spots, throwing a flag themselves.  Getting things correct doesn’t have to take long time.   
 

Huh?  I’m advocating for using technology 

 

i just don’t think it’s going to happen…. Or it would have already happened.  Maybe in another decade or so

Look how quickly they changed the NE punt that hit Harry's facemask. I can be done.

[MAJBobby]

College Football has Better Officiating then the "Big League".  Start by hiring them as Full time Referees.

 

Make Transparent the performance reports of the Refs. and Actually FIRE them when they are in the range of incompetent like a majority of the NFL Refs now.

[T master]

23 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

They won't see a problem until fans decide they've had enough and stop supporting the product by hitting the league and their sponsors in the wallet.  

 

That will never happen after what has went on in the recent past i know a lot of veterans in my personal circle that haven't watched a NFL game in 2 years & i know there's a hole lot more than those that i know that have stopped so there's no way that they will ever lose enough fans to make them change anything they do unless the owners want to change it .

 

There should be a monetary discipline to a bad call in the real world if you screw up to much you (well you use to) get fired or docked in your pay they should review each call at some point & if it is a blatant bad call dock them ex amount and if it continues fire their a** .

 

The amount of missed calls for & against against Bills opponents in comparison is ridiculous just make it even is all we are asking that's not that hard ...

Edited December 15, 2021 by T master

[nucci]

31 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

They won't see a problem until fans decide they've had enough and stop supporting the product by hitting the league and their sponsors in the wallet.  

won't happen with all the money from gambling now

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Look how quickly they changed the NE punt that hit Harry's facemask. I can be done.

I agree.  It can be done efficiently and effectively.  
 

I just don’t think the NFL has any interest improving what’s broken.  Why?  Idk, but the fact that so little has been done to rectify a glaring problem has a lot to do with it.  

[PolishDave]

This is what I suggested yesterday in another thread on here:

 

The solution is more refs in the booths with more camera angles.   For each of those refs covering the receivers there should be a second ref in the booth working as a team to make the right call.    Those two refs for each side of the field should be in constant contact making a joint decision on whether there is a call or non call on each play with the booth ref having the tie breaking vote because they would get to view multiple angles.   In reality the sideline refs should be nothing more than puppets throwing the towels only when the booth ref has clear video evidence of a foul.    And the video evidence should be displayed for the fans at the game and on television for every single foul.

 

We as fans have better viewing angles than the refs on the field do.   Each sideline ref gets only their one angle and they are expected to make the perfect call at full speed every time.  We get to see the play replayed again and again and again from multiple angles.    So the fix seems reasonably obvious to me - Give the refs the same viewing angles as the fans so that they can see what the fans can see.   Call penalties from the booth - but have the ref on the sideline throw the flag.  And make the officials provide video evidence of every penalty.   No evidence = no penalty.   In my opinion this is a no brainer that would reduce poor officiating substantially.   And it could be executed without slowing the game down like challenges do.  

 

Increase the number of cameras on the sideline or skycams to whatever is necessary to provide 360 degree angles for every play as well as a view from close to directly above.    The technology already exists and it's dirt cheap.   Why not use it.

Edited December 14, 2021 by PolishDave

[Tenhigh]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

You need a camera on every player on the field.  And 22 refs in a booth somewhere watching every player.  That’s the only way to get some consistency in the officiating.  The refs on the field are put into an almost impossible position every week.  They have worse angles than what everyone at home can see.  

I had a similar suggestion a while ago, but it was a little smaller scale.  I suggested that each ref has a booth counterpart who can tell them when they missed a flag they should have thrown or threw one they should pick up. This partner would have replay access as well as overrule ability to the field ref.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Tenhigh

[cle23]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards maximum. It's the only penalty over 15 yards. Also defensive holding needs to stop being automatic 1st downs. 

 

Easiest fix. I don't normally get angry with officials because it's a hard job. They're down on the field at real speed. We watch from above, then watch slow replays.

 

I wonder if they allowed the sky judge to correct these calls. Maybe give him like 30 seconds to decide if a penalty stands or not. I can typically watch a replay and decide in a few seconds.

 

The issue with doing the 15 yard penalty for DPI is that on almost every deep ball, especially at the end a half/game, is that the defender will just tackle the receiver and take the penalty.  If you get beat, just interfere.  

 

I haver no issue with the calls being observed from a central location to review quick, it just makes it tough especially if teams are running hurry up.

[YoloinOhio]

This is hilarious 

 

 

[BuffaloFan68]

Best solution is to watch Canadian & college football & stop supporting the NFL until they learn to put a better product out there. Currently the NFL is just a richer version of the WWE.  I know it’s easier said than done but last year was the first Super Bowl I didn’t watch since the mid 70’s.  I’ve already quit going to games & buying the merchandise. I’ve stopped playing fantasy football & I don’t watch anything but the Bills games. It is a garbage product & it most likely won’t get better until we get rid of, our homeboy, Goodell. 

[CodeMonkey]

1 hour ago, QB Bills said:

Like many others here, I'm still seething about that game for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which was that awful showing by the referees.

 

This isn't a novel concept, I don't believe. If I remember correctly, Bill Belichick floated the idea years ago. To fix the reffing issue, make every play/infraction challengeable with the caveat that you get two wrong challenges per game (punishable by yardage and/or losing a timeout).

 

The big pushback on this would be that it would seriously slow the game down (especially if you're of the thought that there is holding on every play) but I think if you give more manpower and authority to off-field officials who are reviewing plays as they happen, this would minimize the delay. The way it is now, 90% of the time the tv viewer knows whether a challenge is going to be successful way earlier than the on-field refs receive the message and announce it. The process is incredibly ridiculous if you think about it.

 

Make the rules significantly less anal.  If it didn't interrupt the game for a false start every time a lineman has a muscle spasm or farted they could afford more challenges.  Or if one of the offensive players was 6 inches back off the line more than the rules allow and all the other worthless rules they have now. Defensive or offensive holding away from the play and has no involvement in the outcome of the play, the list is nearly endless.

 

PI's and things are judgement calls. You would need to alter the rules to take the judgement out of it. Way easier said than done.  

 

Ultimately as long as humans are involved, there will be errors.  Computer vision and other technology is strong enough now a lot could be done that way if the NFL wanted to.  For example, soccer now has a chip in the ball so they can review if the ball crossed the line and is a goal or not.  One could certainly be put in a football so a accurate spot could be made on every play (in conjunction with computers looking at video to determine at what precise time the player was down, or change the rule of when a player is down) or if it breached the goal line.  I mean just think about how that is done now.  On every play, a ref estimates where the ball was when the knee hit.  Then they bring out chains sometimes ... CHAINS!   ... to measure to see if after all the estimates, its a first down.  I chuckle when I see them bring the chains out and say its short of a first down by one chain link  The NFL is still in the 1950's

Edited December 14, 2021 by CodeMonkey

[biLLyBuFFs]

Eff da refs!  hired by the NFL to affect game outcomes and betting lines.  Not so much to make sure professional football games are played fair.  Essentially, entertainment consiglieres to Rog.

 

Teams have to play great enough to keep them out of it.  The Bills are not doing that currently with their sloppy play.
 

Edited December 14, 2021 by biLLyBuFFs

[Billzgobowlin]

This is a simple thing to fix.  Just allow challenges and if the call is egregious change it.  They have technology to do it and the probably know it was the wrong call in New York and would have taken 30 seconds on that TD to Diggs

[frostbitmic]

If the NFL wanted to make sure the games were officiated correctly and honestly, they'd have done something about it years ago. The fact that nothing has been done about it speaks loudly.

 

Sports entertainment baby.

[Bookie Man]

I think there are 2 paths you can take. 

 

1) Increase the surveillance. Add extra refs on the field and/or add cameras watching closely all players. Increased reviewing capabilities. DPI / offensive & defensive holding / facemask, personal fouls etc, maybe all. Reviews will then be sent to about 15 people simultaneously, who are not in proximity with each other, where they 90 seconds to make their call and the popular vote wins. 

 

This would lead to longer games, with choppy game flow, possibly a more boring product. But the games would be more fairly called.

 

2) Minimize the effect the officials have on the game. No more game changing penalties. No more automatic 1st downs. So on 3rd and 25, if there's interference on a 7 yard out, it's 3rd and 18. Max yardage on PI is 15 yards. Offensive holding, chop block is 5 yards. Officials are encouraged to only call blatant and obvious penalties. Nothing borderline or ticky tacky that would have no effect on the play. 

 

This would lead to a more loose game with better game flow, more exciting product and the best part, the refs would have very little impact on the outcome of the game. 

 

Also, in both cases, refs are to wear body or head cams. And they are to be made available for post game pressers. 

 

Borderline calls/ no calls should not effect the outcome of the game. It's like the refs want to be the stars of the show. But it should actually be the opposite. We should barely know they're there. 

 

 

[Frostbite]

1 minute ago, frostbitmic said:

If the NFL wanted to make sure the games were officiated correctly and honestly, they'd have done something about it years ago. The fact that nothing has been done about it speaks loudly.

 

Sports entertainment baby.

Exactly. If every call was made correctly, the NFL loses it's ability to control the flow of the game. For example, if the NFL wants more scoring, they can change some rules in the offseason or just tell refs to swallow the whistle when it comes to holding and make an immediate impact. Could even be as extreme as favoring certain teams in close games that would allow better playoff matchups in terms of ratings.

[CodeMonkey]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

If the NFL wanted to make sure the games were officiated correctly and honestly, they'd have done something about it years ago. The fact that nothing has been done about it speaks loudly.

 

Sports entertainment baby.

Why should they change?  Stadiums are full, TV revenue is great.  Merch revenue is great.  No reason to change.

Follow the money baby.

Edited December 14, 2021 by CodeMonkey

[oldmanfan]

As the resident old fart I'd go the opposite direction.  Get rid of replay and accept that there is human error in officiating.  Let the DBs play football again instead.  Make PI call only when it is clear that the DB deliberately interfered to prevent a TD.  And let defensive linemen actually hit a QB again.  I would also support PI being a 15 yard penalty max.

[Patrick Duffy]

I believe the punishment should depend on how bad the call/non call is....as for the bad calls that aren't bad enough to impact outcome of a game, but are obvious bad calls that are enough to piss anyone off, punishment is anything from water boarding to removing teeth/fingernails/eyelids...

 

The inexcusable calls that clearly determine the outcome of a game (especially in crucial parts of the game) and are at the point it appears to be done on purpose...punishment would then be anywhere from an good ol fashioned execution (gun or beheading, whichever is preferred) to buried alive, restrained to any structure to be burned alive, locked in a 6x6 cage that will be lowered into a body of water for drowning, or last but not least, for personal enjoyment a slow, painful, suffering death by removing limbs slowly one at a time while treating and stopping bleeding on each one to keep alive until only the torso is left.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[finn]

Want to fix the ref problem? Insert an undercover operative and wait for him to be approached. How many people will turn down $50k to throw a flag or two (or not throw one)? And how many would squeal if they were shown a photo of their kids? 

 

It's not paranoia, and it's not a conspiracy. It's money, and human nature. 

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards maximum. It's the only penalty over 15 yards. Also defensive holding needs to stop being automatic 1st downs. 

 

Easiest fix. I don't normally get angry with officials because it's a hard job. They're down on the field at real speed. We watch from above, then watch slow replays.

 

I wonder if they allowed the sky judge to correct these calls. Maybe give him like 30 seconds to decide if a penalty stands or not. I can typically watch a replay and decide in a few seconds.

If PI wasn’t a spot foul DB’s would just mug WR’s if they get beat down field better to give up 15 than 40. I do think there should be some judgement in PI calls similar to how there used to be 5 and 15 yard face mask penalties. Not all PI penalties are equal and while there should be spot fouls for PI there are should be a 10 or 15 yard version for PI that while still there was less egregious.

 

While I do think there is room to improve NFL officiating there never has been a time where I have heard fans of any sport loving how the game is officiated. People have been complaining about the referees in every sport I have been watching since the 90’s. And my dad has been complaining about the refs since the 60’s.

 

So let’s not pretend there was ever a golden era either. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

If PI wasn’t a spot foul DB’s would just mug WR’s if they get beat down field better to give up 15 than 40. I do think there should be some judgement in PI calls similar to how there used to be 5 and 15 yard face mask penalties. Not all PI penalties are equal and while there should be spot fouls for PI there are should be a 10 or 15 yard version for PI that while still there was less egregious.

 

While I do think there is room to improve NFL officiating there never has been a time where I have heard fans of any sport loving how the game is officiated. People have been complaining about the referees in every sport I have been watching since the 90’s. And my dad has been complaining about the refs since the 60’s.

 

So let’s not pretend there was ever a golden era either. 

I really don't think CBs will be taking 15 yard penalties. They can't even get their head around, you think they're going to think fast enough to tackle a WR that might be getting the ball? Even if they do take the penalty it's 15 yards, the worst penalty you can take. They won't be in the league long by taking them every game. If 15 yard penalties were ok why not just rough up Tom Brady every play and knock him out?

 

 

[The Wiz]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What is wrong with using technology?

Makes it harder to buy off the refs. 

[clayboy54]

They could start by eliminating those ticky-tack block-in-the-back and holding calls on just about every kickoff and punt.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Makes it harder to buy off the refs. 

I really don't believe that happens. We all have to understand its a judgment call at full speed. There will be human error. 

 

I just wish there was a way to allow someone upstairs watching to change a terrible PI call. If it's not a quick obvious reversal then it stands. That's why I say decision should be 30 seconds or less.

[Nextmanup]

The game is way over-regulated and over-officiated now.

The review system is much too complex, time consuming, and rarely arrives at the "Correct" call anymore than the old eyeball test of a referee  on field.

The fix that I would LOVE to see is to eliminate the entire review/challenge system entirely.

Maybe with the exception that a panel of reviewers review all scoring plays (but nothing else) and the review is done off-site.

There is NO reasons why refs at a particular game should ever be doing any reviewing themselves.

 

That's totally mickey mouse.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Can we just put chips in balls so we can get fair spots. I crack up every time our offense has the ball spotted short by a yard or more. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

24 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Can we just put chips in balls so we can get fair spots. I crack up every time our offense has the ball spotted short by a yard or more. 

Not so easy.  It's not just the ball, it's when they were down.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Before doing all this, why not just make being a ref a full time job? This way they can learn all the rules and exactly what the mean and when and how to enforce them. Why you have part timers doing a job that can change a game is so dumb! 

I’ve got a feeling theyd still lean the way of the big name teams that people want to see win but it’s worth a try at least lol.   I’m still waiting for a controversial call to go against the bucs since Brady was there 😂 over time that’s supposed to even out and it just never seems to.  Knowing Brady I’m sure he doesn’t even want his team to get help from the refs lol I don’t pin any of this on him at all 

It was so strange getting that late terrible roughing the passer call against you guys a couple weeks ago I totally forgot Brady wasn’t there anymore for a second hahaha

it was also weird actually playing a good enough game against a Brady led team to be able to complain about the refs 🤣 that’s pretty rare for us lol

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not so easy.  It's not just the ball, it's when they were down.  

Mocap suits for all players lol 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan