Inside the 20 with a chance to win it two games in a row

[Virgil]

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Virgil

[Motorin']

So close to having 11 wins. And so very far away...

 

I really think we're missing that Mike Evans, Gronk like red zone target that just outmatches db's in the end zone. 

 

Knox has been good, and got another TD. But Josh needs that guy that can just post up and make it automatic. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Motorin'

[Bruffalo]

8 minutes ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well.  Or even all of the red zone trips against the Jags. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

 

This is kind of the by product of having a real, franchise star QB, right?  There are so many things not clicking/working right yet the Bills have been in every game with multiple chances to win in spite of it.  If we had even a middle of the pack QB we'd be getting blown out. 

 

Allen is single-handedly keeping this offense from looking like a disaster in my opinion. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Bruffalo
Grammar

[Process]

Josh doesn't have the weapons. 

 

Play calling is obviously also a major issue. The 3rd and 2 call was terrible. Not sure why we are taking a low percentage shot to the EZ when we need 2 yards. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

  Or even all of the red zone trips against the Jags. 

 

You mean the one trip into the red zone on their very first possession?

 

That's actually one of the amazing things about that game. Bills offense only made it to the red zone one time the entire game. They were thoroughly dominated. 

 

They got close on their next possession but stalled at the 24. And ended up with a 3rd and 31 from Jacksonville's 45 yard line. 

 

I think part of this comes down to our inability to run the ball. I also don't think Diggs and Beasley, our two best receivers, are great goal line threats. 

[Virgil]

18 minutes ago, Process said:

Josh doesn't have the weapons. 

 

Play calling is obviously also a major issue. The 3rd and 2 call was terrible. Not sure why we are taking a low percentage shot to the EZ when we need 2 yards. 

I don’t think weapons are the issue.  Diggs, Knox, and Davis are all red zone weapons.  We just forgot how to use them 

[CorkScrewHill]

22 minutes ago, Process said:

Josh doesn't have the weapons. 

 

Play calling is obviously also a major issue. The 3rd and 2 call was terrible. Not sure why we are taking a low percentage shot to the EZ when we need 2 yards. 

The play seems ok .. it appears we failed in the execution of the payments to the refs to try to keep it fair.

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The play seems ok .. it appears we failed in the execution of the payments to the refs to try to keep it fair.

Every time I see that image I can feel my blood pressure going up.  I hope that referee who didn't call that steps on a whole bunch of legos barefoot in the dark.

[Da webster guy]

35 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

So close to having 11 wins. And so very far away...

 

I really think we're missing that Mike Evans, Gronk like red zone target that just outmatches db's in the end zone. 

 

Knox has been good, and got another TD. But Josh needs that guy that can just post up and make it automatic. 

 

 

Gabe plays pretty big and has great hands/catch radius.  As much as I hate fade passes, I'd rather see them go to #13 instead of #14 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

46 minutes ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

Yep I think I predicted we come up one play short like we always do in the pregame thread 😂

[LABILLBACKER]

56 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

You mean the one trip into the red zone on their very first possession?

 

That's actually one of the amazing things about that game. Bills offense only made it to the red zone one time the entire game. They were thoroughly dominated. 

 

They got close on their next possession but stalled at the 24. And ended up with a 3rd and 31 from Jacksonville's 45 yard line. 

 

I think part of this comes down to our inability to run the ball. I also don't think Diggs and Beasley, our two best receivers, are great goal line threats. 

They aren't great goal line threats. We have no tall wr or TE's on this roster to act as a redzone threat. That's gotta be more to add to the grocery list.

[Motorin']

33 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Gabe plays pretty big and has great hands/catch radius.  As much as I hate fade passes, I'd rather see them go to #13 instead of #14 

 

Gabe is the only wr other than Kumerow (and he doesn't get any targets) that has good size. 

 

But good size is not power forward size. Jimmy Graham size. Gronk size. Mike Evans size...

 

 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They aren't great goal line threats. We have no tall wr or TE's on this roster to act as a redzone threat. That's gotta be more to add to the grocery list.

 

 

You don't have to be tall to be a goal line threat. You just don't. It's an asset. But there are other ways to get the job done down there. With separation, for one.

 

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don’t think weapons are the issue.  Diggs, Knox, and Davis are all red zone weapons.  We just forgot how to use them 

 

Yup. Teams have adapted and we haven't adapted to their adaptations.

[Billsfan1972]

I have not seen a good call in the red zone all year.  Yes they score TD's, but is there one play where there is an interesting play design or formation.

 

The best call all year was a 2-pt convert, where they ran a trick play. 

 

Fades to Diggs are not the play (especially on 3rd down).  The Bills needed a TD, and the Ref ate his whistle like they did all game. 

[BillnutinHouston]

6 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The play seems ok .. it appears we failed in the execution of the payments to the refs to try to keep it fair.

 

What am I seeing there?  I think you are suggesting a jersey grab but it's too blurry. 

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have not seen a good call in the red zone all year.  Yes they score TD's, but is there one play where there is an interesting play design or formation.

 

The best call all year was a 2-pt convert, where they ran a trick play. 

 

Fades to Diggs are not the play (especially on 3rd down).  The Bills needed a TD, and the Ref ate his whistle like they did all game. 

 

There was a Josh RPO with Knox running a delayed route that was impossible to defend. So they only used it once all season...

 

Look at KC's RPO with Mahomes where he does the old school wing t under hand pitch to the back or TE in the middle of the line... 

 

Where is our go to Red Zone play?

[SoCal Deek]

The goal line play calling is nothing short of horrendous. How you call an all or nothing fade to Diggs (a small WR) there is beyond me. But, with that said Josh has to finish these games. He has to play in the moment and get the TD. This year has been a disaster down there! Nobody remembers Jordan for the shot he makes in the first quarter. They remember him for the one he makes to win the game at the buzzer. It’s what separates these guys. 

[Greg S]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

 

Lack of a good OL and lack of a running game continue to kill the Bills. Josh shouldn't be the "running game". Defenses know we are one dimensional so its easier to defend the Bills especially in the red zone when everything tightens up.

[cwater10]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They aren't great goal line threats. We have no tall wr or TE's on this roster to act as a redzone threat. That's gotta be more to add to the grocery list.

I'm all excited for the draft and looking forward to James Hardy 2.0

[colin]

how our plays are called and who we have on the field just don't line up.

 

signing sanders and guys like obedah (SP), drafting basham and the OT back up we got in the 4th, and keeping all of houghs, addison, whoever so they can sit on the bench 85% of plays did nothing to make our team better.  if we got a real OG, a big WR or a quality TE, not to mention some kind of NFL RB (i'd keep motor but moss and brieda are just not good) a lot of these trips would have been more fruitful.

 

as it stands, since we got what we got, it's pretty clear daboll just doesn't have the touch or understanding he needs, and our OL coaching needs to be removed.  maybe im putting too much of the blame on the coaches on O, but i think the evidence is pretty clear they suck much more than they are good, and sometimes you just need a clean break.

[CorkScrewHill]

48 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

What am I seeing there?  I think you are suggesting a jersey grab but it's too blurry. 

well it is either an egregious jersey grab or Diggs is wearing a non-standard unifrm that has a giant black V in the middle of it.

[RoscoeParrish]

Collectively, across our losses as the OP mentioned, is it fair to say that Josh needs to better in the red zone as well?  When you need that one play to put you over the top. Most notably in the Titans and NE games?  

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Gabe is the only wr other than Kumerow (and he doesn't get any targets) that has good size. 

 

But good size is not power forward size. Jimmy Graham size. Gronk size. Mike Evans size...

 

 

This is what pisses me off. Why won’t they put in Kumerow and utilize his size in the Red Zone. He’s listed at 6’4”. I’d rather see Kumerow than Beasley down there. Call it their BIG package with Knox, Davis, Kumerow and Diggs. TB put Perriman in at a crucial time in the game and it paid off for them

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

Theres a pretty simple explanation for this - the Bills can’t run block.  That accounts for the redzone struggles.  Teams can flood the endzone, play a weak front, and spy on Allen because the threat of a run doesn’t really exist.  
 

Like all of the struggles on offense, it goes back to an offensive line that isn’t physical.  

7 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Collectively, across our losses as the OP mentioned, is it fair to say that Josh needs to better in the red zone as well?  When you need that one play to put you over the top. Most notably in the Titans and NE games?  

Yes but he needs to be pinpoint accurate which isn’t his game.  develop a running game and the % will get better

[JohnBonhamRocks]

8 hours ago, Motorin' said:

So close to having 11 wins. And so very far away...

 

I really think we're missing that Mike Evans, Gronk like red zone target that just outmatches db's in the end zone. 

 

Knox has been good, and got another TD. But Josh needs that guy that can just post up and make it automatic. 

 

 

Gabe Davis seems to fill this role as well. Uses his body to position himself well. Can win in the middle and on the sideline. 
 

That’s not to say we need some help in the red zone because clearly we do.
 

I do think, regardless of the red zone struggles, of any WR role we try to get this off-season it will be that twitchy separator who is Beasley’s heir apparent. 

[Hebert19]

Diggs would have beaten his guy if not held.  Josh threw a good ball.  Just no call.  I think this one going to your best player 1 on 1 is the way to go. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, Process said:

Josh doesn't have the weapons. 

 

Play calling is obviously also a major issue. The 3rd and 2 call was terrible. Not sure why we are taking a low percentage shot to the EZ when we need 2 yards. 

 

Low percentage of turnover, sack, anything that would result in having to run on the FG unit on 4th.  

[SCBills]

Can't put this Tampa game in the same mix as Tennessee and New England.. 

 

I don't love fades to WR's that don't have a big size advantage but Diggs had his man beat, the throw was there, and the refs allowed that to be taken away from us with one of the more egregious missed calls of the entire NFL season.   

 

This game is not the same. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

 

You can go back further than the last series.  It shouldn't come down to the last series.  In the Titans game, we were down in the red zone 5 times and scored TD twice.  A 3rd shot gets it done.  Against NE, 4 times, 1 TD.  A 2nd TD gets it done.

 

It's our Achilles heel this season.

 

 

[Bob in STL]

10 hours ago, Motorin' said:

So close to having 11 wins. And so very far away...

 

I really think we're missing that Mike Evans, Gronk like red zone target that just outmatches db's in the end zone. 

 

Knox has been good, and got another TD. But Josh needs that guy that can just post up and make it automatic. 

 

 

STOP!   We are missing a powerful OL which makes us one dimensional in the red zone looking at a short field.  Our red zone offense is plagued by no run game, no pass protection, sacks, penalties, and stress - all because we don’t have a good line.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by Bob in STL

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

What am I seeing there?  I think you are suggesting a jersey grab but it's too blurry. 

You can't see the defender clearly pulling the neckline of Diggs' jersey almost to the point of reaching his beltline?  May need to invest in glasses or Lasik.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

STOP!   We are missing a powerful OL which makes us one dimensional in the red zone looking at a short field.  Our red zone offense is played by no run game, no pass protection, sacks, penalties, and stress - all because we don’t have a good line.  

You forget lousy play calls.  Haven't seen a creative call all year in the red zone.

[727Bills]

But but but.... The refs!!! 🙄

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

The QB and receivers are fine, obviously.  Our O-Line sucks, and on top of that, we don't have a dynamic running back who can make a play in tight space or serve as a real pass catching threat in the RZ.  I think it's mostly those two issues at this point.  Defenses are begging us to run the ball inside the 10, knowing damn well that we can't do it against their base 3 or 4 man fronts.

[Ross Murdock]

If the Bills had John Harbaugh, or Mike Tomlin as coach they'd likely be 9-3 right now even with the pathetic O-Line. Those coaches don't shrink at crunch time when game winning (Or losing) decisions are made..... McDermitt disappears.  

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

 

I can't let go of the fact that Diggs was blatantly interfered with and nothing was called.

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, Process said:

Josh doesn't have the weapons. 

 

Play calling is obviously also a major issue. The 3rd and 2 call was terrible. Not sure why we are taking a low percentage shot to the EZ when we need 2 yards. 

It's a combination of everything.   That's why continuity is so important.   I don't know if Daboll actually has the horsepower to get it done, but he needs to do better.  The players need to execute better.  Allen needs to see the field better.  The offensive line has to step up and get the job done in the red zone.   It's all of it.  

 

That throw to Diggs into the end zone is money for the Bills, or they think so.  Daboll goes back to it over and over again, and it hasn't been working.  However, the Bills also think that the percentage success rate on that play is very good when you factor in the percentage completions and the percentage of holding or PI calls they get on it.  They should have gotten the call yesterday. 

 

Bills have to learn how to be better, plain and simple.   Titans, Patriots, Bucs, Jags, Steelers all were totally winnable games, and the Bills lost them all.   Better talent isn't going to make much of a difference.  Better execution will. 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

STOP!   We are missing a powerful OL which makes us one dimensional in the red zone looking at a short field.  Our red zone offense is plagued by no run game, no pass protection, sacks, penalties, and stress - all because we don’t have a good line.  

 

Both can be true at the same time.

 

Imo, a beast of a target in the Red Zone helps make up for poor OL play because you can throw it up to him and he can out muscle smaller db's.

 

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

 

Almost every loss could be reversed on one single play, its crazy.  

 

Refs stole the game from us yesterday...HOWEVER...I hated the play call regardless.  Fades are almost like flipping a coin.  You take every other weapon completely out of the picture to just toss up a pass and hope your WR wins his route or get a PI flag.  Stupid...and with a guy like Allen who can RUN it in, let him drop back and survey the field because if its not there, he can very likely run that in.  

 

Daboll is our achilles heal...he really is.  Even the Titans game, he decides to get cute with the sneak, and because of that Josh walks up to the line from shotgun and has to snap it quickly.  Normally, Josh lines up and gets his feet really set in for a big push...instead, the lack of footing caused a slip and assured we would not get it.

 

[auburnbillsbacker]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

There so many things you can pick apart from a game to think what if.  
 

However, I can’t let go of the fact that we were inside the 20 these past two weeks and a touchdown wins both games and has us with the one seed right now. 
 

You could include the Titans game as well. 
 

This isn’t about the red zone offense as much as having games right there in front of us and not being able to score. 
 

Whether it be penalties or low percentage plays, Daboll and the offense just isn’t getting it done. Of everything from this season that’s burned us, this above all else is my biggest concerns. 

It's hard to score when the refs let the defense hold the Bills receivers every play.