What players are true draft busts under Beane?

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, whorlnut said:

If you are going to mention Moss, then you absolutely have to throw Singletary’s name in there too. 

Taylor is a great back no doubt but you have to think Moss and Motor would have to be more productive with that O line. Ours just blows.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, Fan in San Diego said:

Ed Oliver

Oliver has been coming on strong as of late and would probably be more productive with a capable pass rusher helping out.

[hemma]

So much blame game crap after a loss that threads become unreadable.

Better off looking forward to Thursday which is what I hope the players are busy doing.

[HOUSE]

One gut wrenching blow out and everyone is a critic

[Saint Doug]

For a bust to be a bust, they must be drafted high and fail to meet expectations. So, later rounds can’t be busts. So,

 

Edmunds - Bust

Phillips - Bust

Oliver - Bust

Ford - Bust

The reason why the Bills are in this spot is they don’t hit on rounds 1-3 (outside of Allen). You cannot be an elite team by failing to get elite play out of your 1st rounders. To Beane’s credit, he has found very good players in the later rounds. But all the players listed above would be on their 2nd team if not drafted to play for the Bills. 

 

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

Zay Jones 2nd round with the 37th overall pick in the 2017 Draft

2nd round 41st pick was Dalvin Cook RB

 

Cook on the Bills woulda been nice today!

Ah yes, Zay Jones.  He's still in the league, but just barely.

 

I remember the support he received HERE despite looking like crap and a busted draft choice.

 

"He'll be just fine" they said.

 

LOL

 

 

[Putin]

8 hours ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

Zay Jones 2nd round with the 37th overall pick in the 2017 Draft

2nd round 41st pick was Dalvin Cook RB

 

Cook on the Bills woulda been nice today!

But , but it’s stupid to use a premium pick on a RB position you can find one in the later rounds , 

[Putin]

52 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

For a bust to be a bust, they must be drafted high and fail to meet expectations. So, later rounds can’t be busts. So,

 

Edmunds - Bust

Phillips - Bust

Oliver - Bust

Ford - Bust

The reason why the Bills are in this spot is they don’t hit on rounds 1-3 (outside of Allen). You cannot be an elite team by failing to get elite play out of your 1st rounders. To Beane’s credit, he has found very good players in the later rounds. But all the players listed above would be on their 2nd team if not drafted to play for the Bills. 

 

Edmonds is a BUST , 

As far as Oliver goes  I’m still in a wait and see mode , 

the other two should be bagging groceries at Walmart 

[MarkyMannn]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

I don’t judge a GM based only on their history of drafting busts.

 

I also want to see if they can acquire elite talent. Beane has not been able to do that.

 

He has acquired “good talent”, sometimes, but not elite (outside Allen).

 

He has also made one of the worst trades for the Bills in the last 20 years, if not longer.

 

He also sat on his hands while the OL was being mauled.

 

.

Beane acquired Diggs, that's elite talent.  OL Beane re-signed Dawkins and Williams and drafted Brown and Doyle this year.  I would not say that is sitting on his hands

 

What's the trade?

[Mopreme]

39 minutes ago, Putin said:

But , but it’s stupid to use a premium pick on a RB position you can find one in the later rounds , 

Oh wow.  Almost as bad as picking Epenesa over JK Dobbins. 

[SirAndrew]

I definitely consider Epenesa a potential bust. Everything about him from being undersized to being a square peg the team is trying to fit into a round hole, screams potential bust. He’s made some plays, but his career story has yet to be written. I’m just worried he might end up in the bust category from what I see. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Sharky7337]

I'm going to say most of them besides JA and Gabe davis.

 

Why? Because a lot of these guys have become long term projects and have not panned out within their contract terms initially (rookie deals) to be difference makers.

 

If your going to maintain through the draft, they need to perform within a year or two of being drafted. Not 4 or 5.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Sharky7337

[78thealltimegreat]

9 hours ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

Zay Jones 2nd round with the 37th overall pick in the 2017 Draft

2nd round 41st pick was Dalvin Cook RB

 

Cook on the Bills woulda been nice today!

The Bills had a chance at Dalvin Cook I did not know this so he’s now officially one of the worst drafters in the league 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The question is not whether they are busts or not. It is about the return on investment. First and second day picks are premium slots where you need to find impact players. Yes Epenesa is getting snaps but he is not making any plays.  He looks like a guy that will be out of the league in two years or will struggle to sign 1 yr contracts.  Moss and Ford have occasional good moments but neither look like they are athletic enough to play in the NFL. "Red shirting" Basham as some on here suggested is insane.  He's a second round pick. Those picks need to be competing with the starters for snaps from day one. Brown is a nice find. Oliver is ok. He's not an all-pro but he is a very capable starter at a position it takes time to develop. 

[78thealltimegreat]

25 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I definitely consider Epenesa a potential bust. Everything about him from being undersized to being a square peg the team is trying to fit into a round hole, screams potential bust. He’s made some plays, but his career story has yet to be written. I’m just worried he might end up in the bust category from what I see. 

AJ has talent but he just doesn’t fit what Leslie Frazier does he needs to be an edge rusher in a 3/4 put him in Pittsburgh he’d have 10 sacks 

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Link?

Link?

Link?

 

 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

There are discussions on here that Beane is a terrible drafter, can't judge talent, etc. I am not really inclined to believe this. I think he's a great GM and am happy to have him. 

 

That said, I was thinking about what players are truly busts under his tenure. I think they are: 

 

Cody Ford: though he had a better day yesterday, a high second round pick needs to be a starter every week, not objectively the worst lineman on the team at times. 

 

Harrison Phillips: I'm not sure how much that ACL tear did, but he's been awful. There are multiple videos of him being tossed like a ragdoll yesterday by the Colts' offensive line. 

 

Zack Moss: it's time to write Moss off. He might be a decent goal line back, but he's way too slow to do anything else. He's the running back version of Reggie Ragland. 

 

I don't want to include Epenesa or Oliver here because they HAVE contributed plenty already. Oliver in particular has come on this season; he's had about five sacks called back due to a penalty. My eye is on them, however. 

 

I don't include picks made after round 4 since those are often crapshoots. He's gotten good value in guys like Taron Johnson and Tyler Bass, though. 

 

 

Real answer: None.

 

Yet.

 

You have to either be cut or be given three years to try to achieve your potential. It takes that long to carefully judge. Knee-jerk decisions are wrong at a higher rate. Three years. After that you can legitimately be called a bust, though history shows that a few players can figure things out even after that.

 

As for people who look headed towards being busts, Ford leads the list.

 

Phillips is OK for a 3rd, more of a mild disappointment who may or may not get back to what he was becoming before the injury. RBs aren't judged by speed. It's more complicated than that. Moss is faster than A. J. Dillon, who so far appears to be a good back. Behind a better interior line, Moss might easily look a ton better.

 

Ford is about it so far. He could still turn it around, but that's not the most likely outcome at this point.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[MarkyMannn]

47 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The Bills had a chance at Dalvin Cook I did not know this so he’s now officially one of the worst drafters in the league 

Beane was not here yet for that draft you know

[78thealltimegreat]

1 minute ago, MarkyMannn said:

Beane was not here yet for that draft you know

Only going on what the original poster stated I know he was here for the Jonathan Taylor and Najee Harris drafts and both players where taken just a few picks ahead of where the Bills drafted 

[MarkyMannn]

12 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Only going on what the original poster stated I know he was here for the Jonathan Taylor and Najee Harris drafts and both players where taken just a few picks ahead of where the Bills drafted 

I liked Najee, just our luck he was taken a few picks before ours

[Bubba Gump]

Who drafted the dude that was found naked in a field somewhere around Elma? Sposed to be the next best OL man in the league, coming out of Alabama. Cyrus something I think. 

 

And Beane overvalued Singletary and Moss. If you really want a true #1 RB, you're gonna have to get one before rd 3.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bubba Gump

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Who drafted the dude that was found naked in a field somewhere around Elma? Sposed to be the next best OL man in the league, coming out of Alabama. Cyrus something I think. 

 

And Beane overvalued Singletary and Moss. If you really want a true #1 RB, you're gonna have to get one before rd 3.

Whaley 

 

It's just something in the wny water maybe lol 

 

Cyrus naked in a field and zay Jones was ready to jump out a hotel window and die for Jesus  

 

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The Bills had a chance at Dalvin Cook I did not know this so he’s now officially one of the worst drafters in the league 

 

 

After this post, you're officially one of the worst posters here. He's a fine drafter and he was still in Carolina during this draft.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bubba Gump said:

Who drafted the dude that was found naked in a field somewhere around Elma? Sposed to be the next best OL man in the league, coming out of Alabama. Cyrus something I think. 

 

And Beane overvalued Singletary and Moss. If you really want a true #1 RB, you're gonna have to get one before rd 3.

 

 

They don't need a true #1 RB. They have other needs at other positions they value more. So far Moss and Singletary are performing at about the level he drafted them at, behind a bad interior OL.

 

Kouandjio was drafted in 2014. That was the Whaley era.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

For a bust to be a bust, they must be drafted high and fail to meet expectations. So, later rounds can’t be busts. So,

 

Edmunds - Bust

Phillips - Bust

Oliver - Bust

Ford - Bust

The reason why the Bills are in this spot is they don’t hit on rounds 1-3 (outside of Allen). You cannot be an elite team by failing to get elite play out of your 1st rounders. To Beane’s credit, he has found very good players in the later rounds. But all the players listed above would be on their 2nd team if not drafted to play for the Bills. 

 

 

 

This post - Joke

[Scott7975]

12 hours ago, Sugar High JA17 said:

Zay Jones 2nd round with the 37th overall pick in the 2017 Draft

2nd round 41st pick was Dalvin Cook RB

 

Cook on the Bills woulda been nice today!

 

Beane wasnt here for the 2017 draft?

[BobbyC81]

12 hours ago, clearwater cadet said:

How did they invest so much in the D line and no one can get to the Qb.

There were several plays where the Bills got enough pressure that Wentz had to throw it early.  You don’t have to get sacks to be effective.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, hemma said:

So much blame game crap after a loss that threads become unreadable.

Better off looking forward to Thursday which is what I hope the players are busy doing.

 

 

Indeed. It's a waste of time being here at this point. Think I'll go for a jog and do some work.

 

After a game like this there's a lot of emotion flying around, reasonably. But instead of talking about what the problems really are, people go nuts and take the kneejerk route towards identifying a scapegoat.

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Who drafted the dude that was found naked in a field somewhere around Elma? Sposed to be the next best OL man in the league, coming out of Alabama. Cyrus something I think. 

 

And Beane overvalued Singletary and Moss. If you really want a true #1 RB, you're gonna have to get one before rd 3.

That was Whaley. Not sure if a player drafted in round 3 could be considered overvalued. Seemed to be about where they were projected to go. 

[GreggTX]

Cody Ford. The rest just haven't lived up to expectations. Allen still has big games, but lacks consistency. Get him a good OL and 1-tech. Even CB takes a back seat to this OL on the priorities.

[Coach Tuesday]

Can’t evaluate picks in a vacuum, you’ve got to look at the opportunity costs involved.  What they passed on to take the player, resource allocation in using the pick vs. trading it away or trading up or down etc.

[LabattBlue]

Beane should kiss the ring of Josh Allen for keeping him employed. He has spent much draft capital and FA cap space on a DL that can’t stop the run, and I’m not sure he will target the correct players for an interior OL rebuild…assuming he finally realizes this must be done.  This is a big off-season for him, as every year that goes by without fixing team shortcomings is another year Allen gets older.  

[DCOrange]

If by "true draft busts" we mean it in the sense that you wasted a pick on a guy that should never ever start, it's hard to really point to anything honestly. If we're talking from the broader sense of guys that are disappointments/improper use of resources for where they were drafted (some of these are admittedly stretches):

• Phillips - maybe due to injury though
• Edmunds - gave up a lot for a LB that has been unremarkable up until this season IMO
• Ford - this is a given
• Singletary - this is a given
• Knox - was pretty much terrible until this season
• Epenesa - showed some nice flashes early in the season but is once again buried on the bench
• Moss - just hasn't done much
• Basham - just hasn't done much (obviously very early with him though)

I think from the broader sense, Edmunds and Basham can be argued the other way (some people have been very high on Edmunds from Day 1 and it's obviously very early for Basham), but the others have obviously been disappointments the majority of their time here.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The Roster problem I see see is lack of excellent players. It almost worked last year, but didn’t improve enough to keep pace this year. 
 

Excellent:

-Diggs Allen TreD maybe Bass?

 

very Good:

- Ed, Dawk? Maybe Poyer? Maybe Tremaine 

 

The rest of the roster is average to good.  
 

and then you’ve got high picks that haven’t become very good to excellent, Boogie, AJE, Harry, Dawson, Devin, Moss, Rousseau. 
 

and then relatively high dollar players that impact the team inconsistently, or play rotationally or as back ups…. Sanders, Hughes, Addison, Star, Klein, Butler … Taiwan Jones is the highest paid RB. 

[MJS]

14 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Taylor is a great back no doubt but you have to think Moss and Motor would have to be more productive with that O line. Ours just blows.

That's the thing. Singletary IS productive even with our crappy oline. He needs more touches, though.

 

Get him up to 15-20 a game and he is easily a 1,000 yard back.

 

And I think he would fumble less too. I think they fumble sometimes because they know they only have a few carries a game and they try to absolutely maximize every single one, which leads to errors.

[TuelTime]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

That's the thing. Singletary IS productive even with our crappy oline. He needs more touches, though.

 

Get him up to 15-20 a game and he is easily a 1,000 yard back.

 

And I think he would fumble less too. I think they fumble sometimes because they know they only have a few carries a game and they try to absolutely maximize every single one, which leads to errors.

 

Not having a true RB1 and RB2 is painful to watch. Neither of them have a chance to get into a rhythm. I believe the same is true with the DL by committee. None of them are game changers and they seem to take turns getting lucky. Would McD have Bruce Smith or Mario Williams on a 50% snap count too?

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Can’t evaluate picks in a vacuum, you’ve got to look at the opportunity costs involved.  What they passed on to take the player, resource allocation in using the pick vs. trading it away or trading up or down etc.

You also can't just consider picks good because the guys stick around on the roster.

 

At a certain point, snagging role players and ST contributors becomes non-important. Playmakers and stars are the goal.

[DapperCam]

If a 3rd round pick becomes a depth roster player that contributes, I don’t think you can really call them a “bust”.

 

Busts so far for Beane:

- Ford

- Epenesa is on his way, but still time for him. We’ll know for sure when we let the old DL walk and see how the young guys do.

 

Oliver and Edmunds haven’t been busts. Just disappointing at times. Every first round pick isn’t going to be an all pro.

[FireChans]

31 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You also can't just consider picks good because the guys stick around on the roster.

 

At a certain point, snagging role players and ST contributors becomes non-important. Playmakers and stars are the goal.

 

26 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If a 3rd round pick becomes a depth roster player that contributes, I don’t think you can really call them a “bust”.

 

Busts so far for Beane:

- Ford

- Epenesa is on his way, but still time for him. We’ll know for sure when we let the old DL walk and see how the young guys do.

 

Oliver and Edmunds haven’t been busts. Just disappointing at times. Every first round pick isn’t going to be an all pro.

 

[DapperCam]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

 

The question wasn’t “good picks”. The question was “true draft busts”.

[Mango]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:32 AM, Sugar High JA17 said:

Zay Jones 2nd round with the 37th overall pick in the 2017 Draft

2nd round 41st pick was Dalvin Cook RB

 

Cook on the Bills woulda been nice today!

This is McWhaley. But that draft also got us Tre, Milano and Dawkins. Outside of drafting Josh Allen, that is probably the best draft of the McDermott era. We got a franchise CB, LB, and LT in one go. 

 

'20 and 21' have an opportunity to surpass it (maybe), but they need some more time/production/return.