Bojo doing Bojo things

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:09 PM, BearNorth said:

Knowing McDermott's attention to detail, wondering if his place kick holding was why Bojo is now with his third team.  Sure's he not happy about the game-changing punt block against the Steelers, but Bojo's holding adventures aren't new.

Honestly I have no doubt this is the reason they didn't pony up an offer a couple 100k higher. Haacks not the answer but that's a fairly offseason fix or hell, after the way Bass worked out, take a stud punter late!!!

[Sherlock Holmes]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Honestly I have no doubt this is the reason they didn't pony up an offer a couple 100k higher. Haacks not the answer but that's a fairly offseason fix or hell, after the way Bass worked out, take a stud punter late!!!

Or get Anger!

[JMF2006]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:23 PM, Wnybricky said:

We need a new punter too. I expect one in the draft

 

Hopefully a real good one will be there in Rnd 1

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:57 PM, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Does every team use the Punter now? I can't think of any team that uses QB2 for that anymore. But don't know for sure, honestly something I haven't really paid much attention to

pretty much since the kicker, punter, and Long snapper all hang out together.  I could see teams doing it with a core special teamer too, but most of those guys play other positions.  Like i don't want neal to lose reps on defense so we can have him holding FGs for the one time we run a fake or something.

[WhoTom]

Bojo may be a lousy holder, but GB's long-snapper didn't do the team any favors yesterday. In addition to two bad snaps on place kicks, he had a really low snap on a punt.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

pretty much since the kicker, punter, and Long snapper all hang out together.  I could see teams doing it with a core special teamer too, but most of those guys play other positions.  Like i don't want neal to lose reps on defense so we can have him holding FGs for the one time we run a fake or something.

 

One strategy is to have another guy who can throw some in on the ST unit, like we did to the Pats with Jaquon Johnson last season.  Johnson is a backup Safety and takes most of his snaps on ST each week as the "Personal Protector".  Something the Bills seem to do well is methodically assess the abilities of each player to make other plays (pass, catch, kick).

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

One strategy is to have another guy who can throw some in on the ST unit, like we did to the Pats with Jaquon Johnson last season.  Johnson is a backup Safety and takes most of his snaps on ST each week as the "Personal Protector".  Something the Bills seem to do well is methodically assess the abilities of each player to make other plays (pass, catch, kick).

 

i feel like thats good for fake punts, or even like pooch kicks or something.  How often do you even run a fake FG though?

[Doc]

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

He had one season over 80%.  He came out after a  Senior season of barely over 70%.  

 

As I documented, no problems with Bojo holding after the first month or so of his 2020 season.  You can't (so you didn't) dispute this.

 

Crosby/Bojo missed zero Pat/FG until las week.  Zero.  Then, in one game, Crosby was missing chip shots.  He was a mess.  Made all 4 kicks today.

 

You ignore all of the success of 2 kickers between early last year and up to last week and conclude Bojo is a problem--because Bass/Bojo struggled over year ago for a bit.  That's an impossible argument to convincingly make.

 

How do we know "for sure" one of the many misses was on Bojo?  The OP's article cites struggles of the LS....and notes that Bojo got the laces out ("late", but out).

 

 

If you want modify your argument to "Bojo had maybe one (maybe even 2) bad holds since week 6 of 2020", then go right ahead. 

 

Bass had a 78.9% percentage his first season kicking, then went to 90% and then dropped to 71% his senior season.  Obviously the Bills saw a reason for that drop as something they could correct since they spent a draft pick on him and he's kicking well with the Bills.  You saw the 71% and wrote him off.

 

As for Bojo, the guy is inconsistent in punting and had that inexplicable fake FG play, and we know his holds haven't all been good.  To ascribe the kicking issues to him isn't far-fetched at all.  Maybe he's thinking too much of Cali or his GF...

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Bass had a 78.9% percentage his first season kicking, then went to 90% and then dropped to 71% his senior season.  Obviously the Bills saw a reason for that drop as something they could correct since they spent a draft pick on him and he's kicking well with the Bills.  You saw the 71% and wrote him off.

 

As for Bojo, the guy is inconsistent in punting and had that inexplicable fake FG play, and we know his holds haven't all been good.  To ascribe the kicking issues to him isn't far-fetched at all.  Maybe he's thinking too much of Cali or his GF...

 

 

 

 

You've provided nothing to back this statement up.  He had a few issues over a year ago.  Which holder's holds have "all been good"?

 

 

[klos63]

82 yard punt yesterday. 

For the season 6 inside the 20, 18 punts overall,  1 touchback, net 42.7 average. Having a solid year punting.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You've provided nothing to back this statement up.  He had a few issues over a year ago.  Which holder's holds have "all been good"?

 

I couldn't tell you because I rarely pay attention to them in general.  They're only noteworthy when a snap gets botched.  But in general, I think they do a consistently good job.

 

Again Jay Feely analyzed Bass' first few misses from last year and said it was a ball orientation issue, which was never an issue with Ferguson in the prior 4 seasons with the Bills...and obviously wasn't on Bass.  Maybe Feely or someone else will analyze what happened in that Packers game, I don't know?  

 

But in any case, it's too much talk about a punter.  We have a new one and Bass is showing that his senior season was the exception.

[BillsFan4]

Quote

Instead of re-signing punter Corey Bojorquez, the Packers added longtime former Bears punter Pat O’Donnell. How O’Donnell punts may not have even been the biggest factor in signing him.

 

“Certainly his consistency, not only as a punter but as a holder,” Gutekunst said of what made O’Donnell appealing. 

https://theathletic.com/3214690/2022/03/28/packers-gm-brian-gutekunst-explains-davante-adams-trade-more-from-nfl-owners-meetings/

Sounds like the Packers also moved on from Bojo in part because of his holding (in)ability too. Seems to be a common thing with him. Wonder why he struggles so much to hold kicks.

 

 

 

Made me think of this scene: 

 

 

 

Not exactly sure why 😂

Edited March 29, 2022 by BillsFan4

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theathletic.com/3214690/2022/03/28/packers-gm-brian-gutekunst-explains-davante-adams-trade-more-from-nfl-owners-meetings/

Sounds like the Packers also moved on from Bojo in part because of his holding (in)ability too. Seems to be a common thing with him. Wonder why he struggles so much to hold kicks.

 

Some people will still argue it was a mistake to move on, but holding for XP and FG leads to more points than his punting did.  Huge impact on kicking game and it hurt GB most of the year.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

"First Buffalo...then Green Bay...all because I mentioned 'left footed' spins.  Heh heh heh."

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theathletic.com/3214690/2022/03/28/packers-gm-brian-gutekunst-explains-davante-adams-trade-more-from-nfl-owners-meetings/

Sounds like the Packers also moved on from Bojo in part because of his holding (in)ability too. Seems to be a common thing with him. Wonder why he struggles so much to hold kicks.

 

 

Eating too much Bojangles chicken makes your fingers greasy.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

26 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

"First Buffalo...then Green Bay...all because I mentioned 'left footed' spins.  Heh heh heh."

 

I know Bailey was all-pro in 2020-2021... but they had 3 punts blocked in 2021-2022.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:30 PM, DJB said:

Bojo's weekly game results

 

1. Bomb a 65 yard punt 

2. Mess up the hold and K misses FG

3. Shank a 15 yard punt. 

 

Repeat process. 

Gone are the days of Brian Moorman

 

1. Bomb a 80 yard punt

2. Run for 20 on 4th and short

3. Throw a TD

[KingBoots8]

10 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Gone are the days of Brian Moorman

 

1. Bomb a 80 yard punt

2. Run for 20 on 4th and short

3. Throw a TD

 

Moorman just doing his best Thanos impression.

 

”Fine, I’ll do it myself!”

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

 

Moorman just doing his best Thanos impression.

 

”Fine, I’ll do it myself!”

There’s no heart emoji 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theathletic.com/3214690/2022/03/28/packers-gm-brian-gutekunst-explains-davante-adams-trade-more-from-nfl-owners-meetings/

Sounds like the Packers also moved on from Bojo in part because of his holding (in)ability too. Seems to be a common thing with him. Wonder why he struggles so much to hold kicks.

 

 

 

Made me think of this scene: 

 

 

 

Not exactly sure why 😂

 

Funny, it's as if some of us have been saying this for a year now.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

35 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

 

Moorman just doing his best Thanos impression.

 

”Fine, I’ll do it myself!”

 

Best BILLS uniform ever

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theathletic.com/3214690/2022/03/28/packers-gm-brian-gutekunst-explains-davante-adams-trade-more-from-nfl-owners-meetings/

Sounds like the Packers also moved on from Bojo in part because of his holding (in)ability too. Seems to be a common thing with him. Wonder why he struggles so much to hold kicks.

 

 

 

Made me think of this scene: 

 

 

 

Not exactly sure why 😂

 

this is incredibly dumb by teams. You dont want a punter because he cant hold kicks?? Get someone else to do it, remember when the QBs used to do it, id much rather the backup QB do it just in cases you want to throw the ball.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Buffalo Barbarian

[BillsfaninSB]

45 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

 

Moorman just doing his best Thanos impression.

 

”Fine, I’ll do it myself!”

I still can’t believe these uniforms actually existed. 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

this is incredibly dumb by teams. You dont want a punter because he cant hold kicks?? Get someone else to do it, remember when the QBs used to do it, id much rather the backup QB do it just in cases you want to throw the ball.

 

 

 

This is my thought as well. Especially on our roster where we pay guys like Taiwan Jones over $1M per year to play special teams only. The argument is that it costs him reps/time in the RB room. 

The dude is RB4. He might take 8 offensive snaps per week. If we are going to keep a spot purely for a ST guy with literally no other value on the team, I would much rather keep the better punter and make Jones practice holding rather than compromise the punter. 

 

In a perfect world, we stop signing Taiwan Jones every year and start filling that role with younger guys who actually have a chance of cracking the roster at other positions. And in that case sure, sign Haack instead of Bojo. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Gone are the days of Brian Moorman

 

1. Bomb a 80 yard punt

2. Run for 20 on 4th and short

3. Throw a TD

He should be brought in as an Assistant Special Teams Coordinator.

 

He used to get hit a lot out of bounds on those type of plays.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

Holding is now a part of the job of the punter. Like it or not, it is in the job description. With new CBAs etc these teams barely practice at all. And with everyone bigger and faster now, if it isn’t a perfect snap, hold, kick its gonna probably get blocked. so it needs to be streamlined and automatic. 
 

Punters and kickers are all kind of the same. There are some elite guys, and then a bunch of average dudes, and guys who suck. So if the guy can’t hold, he really can’t do the job. 
 

That’s like having a McDonald’s employee who makes great burgers, but just can’t seem to figure out the fryer, so the fries come out bad and soggy. You are going to just fire that person and find someone who is at least ok doing both. 

[streetkings01]

Saddest era of Bills football for me where fans praised the punter and wanted to vote him team MVP 🥺

 

I never wanna return to that era of Bills football!

[AuntieEm]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:38 PM, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Ok, well that's understandable. To your trick play comment, just wanted to point out that when opposing teams see the QB2 come out for holding duties instead of the usual punter, I imagine that would alert them to be ready for a trick play. So not sure it would be very successful. Unless for some reason opposing team wouldn't notice a different holder, but I doubt that would happen often, if at all.

 Well I imagine if the qb2 was the holder it would be for every fg attempt not just when u wanna run a trick play.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

this is incredibly dumb by teams. You dont want a punter because he cant hold kicks?? Get someone else to do it, remember when the QBs used to do it, id much rather the backup QB do it just in cases you want to throw the ball.

 

 

 

Yes I remember, it was back in the day when lengths of practice wasn't governed as much and players like the backup QB could just stay after to work  with the kicker.  Now if you want your backup QB to hold for kicks that means he's not with the QB's when they are practicing the offense for next weeks game.  Plus some weeks the backup QB may became the starting QB or at least enter in the middle of the game.

 

Plus on teams with strong offenses I'd argue holding for kicks is more important than punting.  Was it one or two games last season the Bills never punted.

 

Could you get someone else, sure, but whomever you get if it's not he kicker, punter or holder, you're pulling them away from practice time on their other roles to work with the kicker.  That's why 32 (I'm assuming there aren't any teams that use the QB to hold) teams don't think it's a dumb idea.  The dumb idea would be using someone else.

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Reasons-Punters-Hold-for-Field-Goals

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Greatdane21]

Where is it written the punter has to hold ? There are backup wr db etc  just as capable 

for years Cleveland had a defensive back holding for Lou groza.

[mikemac2001]

2 minutes ago, Greatdane21 said:

Where is it written the punter has to hold ? There are backup wr db etc  just as capable 

for years Cleveland had a defensive back holding for Lou groza.

It’s because a lot of times they are to busy practicing there position 

 

while punters are part of the special teams and they spend there time together 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Greatdane21 said:

Where is it written the punter has to hold ? There are backup wr db etc  just as capable 

for years Cleveland had a defensive back holding for Lou groza.

 

Lou Groza, Great example of todays NFL! 

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Reasons-Punters-Hold-for-Field-Goals

[RocCityRoller]

On 3/29/2022 at 3:48 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

Holding is now a part of the job of the punter. Like it or not, it is in the job description. With new CBAs etc these teams barely practice at all. And with everyone bigger and faster now, if it isn’t a perfect snap, hold, kick its gonna probably get blocked. so it needs to be streamlined and automatic. 
 

Punters and kickers are all kind of the same. There are some elite guys, and then a bunch of average dudes, and guys who suck. So if the guy can’t hold, he really can’t do the job. 
 

That’s like having a McDonald’s employee who makes great burgers, but just can’t seem to figure out the fryer, so the fries come out bad and soggy. You are going to just fire that person and find someone who is at least ok doing both. 

 

Poor Tom Tupa would never make the NFL with those definitions!

 

He was a fun player to watch.

[BobbyC81]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:21 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

this is incredibly dumb by teams. You dont want a punter because he cant hold kicks?? Get someone else to do it, remember when the QBs used to do it, id much rather the backup QB do it just in cases you want to throw the ball.

 

 

Exactly, use somebody with good hands, even a WR or TE.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Lou Groza, Great example of todays NFL! 

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Reasons-Punters-Hold-for-Field-Goals

I did not realize all of that about limitations on practice time and Boho is truly out of luck on good offenses where his holding is more important than his punting.

[Freddie's Dead]

Bodork gonna Bodork.

[vincec]

I have no issue with the Bills moving on from Bojorquez, but did they have to replace him with the worst punter in the NFL?

[The Jokeman]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:37 PM, AuntieEm said:

 Well I imagine if the qb2 was the holder it would be for every fg attempt not just when u wanna run a trick play.  

Where's Tom Tupa when you need him. He played QB and finished his career as a punter.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Where's Tom Tupa when you need him. He played QB and finished his career as a punter.

 

So did George Blanda.  That's the only way today a QB will be holding, if he also punts.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I did not realize all of that about limitations on practice time and Boho is truly out of luck on good offenses where his holding is more important than his punting.

 

Don't think it's only teams with good offense's.   I just looked at kicking stats from some of the teams with the worst records last year, Jax, Caroilna, Seattle, Giants.  All those kickers averaged  about 6 points per game, basically one TD.  That can be the difference between winning an losing a game.  Better teams like Buffalo the kickers worth even more, about 8 points per game.

 

Now look at punting stats.  The difference in net yards between Bojo who everyone is still pining for and Haack is 2.6 yards.  Difference between the best net punting average in league and worst (who BTW is Haack) is about 7 yards per game and the worst teams in the league punt an average of 5 times a game.   So if you take 7 yards more /punt X 5 punts = 35 yards a game more.   6 points will likely end up being more important than 35 yards

 

There were also only 8 blocked punts and 2 punts returned for TD by all the teams together for the entire season.   One of the TD returns was against Bojo so ironically tboth he and HHack gave up one TD.  He and Haack had almost identical number of punts inside the 20, fair caught, and downed.  Bojo also had 268 return yards against him vs 96 for Haack.  Bojo had 4 touchbacks, Haack 7.  When you really look at the stats the two of them are very close, and BTW Bojo can't hold.

 

Games are won and lost more on missed FG's than punt returns