Bojo doing Bojo things

[benderbender]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He mentioned that he was too shallow.  He was at about 13 yds, IIRC.

 

I can't find statistics, but I've been looking at punters carefully since then, and my eyes in the same game (so not adjusting for wind or punter preference) the punters are closer to the LOS when they're punting from inside their own 20.  

 

On the other hand, I've also been watching Haack since then and he tends to stand 13 yds back from the LOS consistently.

Haack has 12 return yards on 14 punts this year. How is this possible? He takes multiple steps and lets his coverage team get downfield a second or two longer for little to no return. The danger is the possibility of blocks. But he's only had 3 blocks in his college and NFL career. His blocked punt this year was a game killer, but that was a blown blocking assignment and two yards of separation wasn't saving that play. Haack is a proficient holder, doesn't have a ridiculous mustache, and is known for his ability to fake a kick. Boho can kick far sometimes. No competition in my mind. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 minutes ago, benderbender said:

Haack has 12 return yards on 14 punts this year. How is this possible? He takes multiple steps and lets his coverage team get downfield a second or two longer for little to no return. The danger is the possibility of blocks. But he's only had 3 blocks in his college and NFL career. His blocked punt this year was a game killer, but that was a blown blocking assignment and two yards of separation wasn't saving that play. Haack is a proficient holder, doesn't have a ridiculous mustache, and is known for his ability to fake a kick. Boho can kick far sometimes. No competition in my mind. 

when I looked into this a little More, he may have a few other blocks. They don’t count it as a block of the ball is blocked but travels past the LOS. 
 

But I agree— I think the slow release helps the coverage.

[Doc]

He'll probably be looking for work again soon.  Sometimes you make the wrong decision...

 

As for Haack, the Bills should look to upgrade in the off-season and they can cut him after the season with just a $700K dead cap.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

13 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

All is certainly true - the difference is expected positional spend.  
 

Most teams don’t want to spend more than 1 million to 1.15 million on a punter.  If you cut him - and sign even a draft pick - you are over budget.

 

Most people didn’t think they would cut Star this year because his cost combined with a replacement cost would’ve exceeded typical position spend.  Most people assumed this would be his last year as his dead hit is small enough when combined with a replacement to fit typical budget for that position.

 

They might sign a punter - you are correct, but I just think they are fine with his play and they are much less concerned than some fans.  I think they also really like the way the 3 specialists (punter, kicker, and LS) get along and work together.  I don’t think they will mess with that as it is important to this staff.

 

 

 

Yeah I was referring to cutting him in 2022 also.  Admittedly the way he's been playing could see instead they keep him another year, maybe draft in 2nd or 3rd round his replacement and let him sit and learn for a year or at least not be starting.

 

Agree with the positional spend concept, will see.  Of all the starting positions (admittedly calling a punter a starter is a stretch) punter may be the weakest. Only other area possibly as shaky is interior line, but seems to be holding up.

[Kmart128]

15 hours ago, Wnybricky said:

We need a new punter too. I expect one in the draft

Why... he hasnt been bad. He is averaging 44.4 yards a punt. About same as his career average. Everyone is slowing him being slow caused that punt block but he has had 320+ punts in his career and only 2 of them have been blocked. That is a huge outlier

Edited October 17, 2021 by Kmart128

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

All is certainly true - the difference is expected positional spend.  
 

Most teams don’t want to spend more than 1 million to 1.15 million on a punter.  If you cut him - and sign even a draft pick - you are over budget.

 

Most people didn’t think they would cut Star this year because his cost combined with a replacement cost would’ve exceeded typical position spend.  Most people assumed this would be his last year as his dead hit is small enough when combined with a replacement to fit typical budget for that position.

 

They might sign a punter - you are correct, but I just think they are fine with his play and they are much less concerned than some fans.  I think they also really like the way the 3 specialists (punter, kicker, and LS) get along and work together.  I don’t think they will mess with that as it is important to this staff.

 

 

 

This article today certainly supports you're comments!

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/he-s-got-a-little-swagger-about-him-bills-kicker-tyler-bass-grows-more-confident/article_efaccf84-2ec5-11ec-ace8-73365fdf177e.html

[Mr. WEO]

I'n not buying this.  Until that game, Crosby (with Bojo) had been 6/6 on FG and 11/11 on PATS.   Then in one game he misses a PAT and 3 FG (including 36 and 40 yards--barely longer than PATs).

 

It's on the Kicker.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'n not buying this.  Until that game, Crosby (with Bojo) had been 6/6 on FG and 11/11 on PATS.   Then in one game he misses a PAT and 3 FG (including 36 and 40 yards--barely longer than PATs).

 

It's on the Kicker.

He had trouble last year with the Bills as well. It’s Bojo. 

[Madbillsfan]

Wow.  It amazes me at how a few wins will make a fan base so arrogant and after reading this, defensive. 

[Patrick Duffy]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

He had trouble last year with the Bills as well. It’s Bojo. 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'n not buying this.  Until that game, Crosby (with Bojo) had been 6/6 on FG and 11/11 on PATS.   Then in one game he misses a PAT and 3 FG (including 36 and 40 yards--barely longer than PATs).

 

It's on the Kicker.

I would say it likely that a little is on both of them. 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I would say it likely that a little is on both of them. 

Both teams have excellent kickers.  The issues with the missed field goals last year with the Bills and this year with the Packers has mostly been with ball orientation. The constant between the two has been Bojo, which is why I believe it’s him. 

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

Both teams have excellent kickers.  The issues with the missed field goals last year with the Bills and this year with the Packers has mostly been with ball orientation. The constant between the two has been Bojo, which is why I believe it’s him. 

I mean it could be on one a little more than other. Anyway,did you see the 4 kicks that he missed and the hold for each one? Asking because I haven't so don't know. In any event we know Bojo messed up at least one of the holds for sure of the 4 kicks. I'd be willing to bet that he didn't mess up on every single hold that FG/XP was missed. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Doc said:

Both teams have excellent kickers.  The issues with the missed field goals last year with the Bills and this year with the Packers has mostly been with ball orientation. The constant between the two has been Bojo, which is why I believe it’s him. 

 

Bass showed up as a 71% Senior year kicker.  It showed the first month.    But then, With Bojo, he had 12 games without a miss for the season.  In fact after kicking 6 FG against the Jets in week 7, he would only miss 3 more in the next 12 weeks (23/26) through the playoffs.  52/55 PATs all year.  

 

This continued with Crosby: zero misses until week 5, when he was missing chip shots.  But yeah despite all that, must be Bojo.....

[Steel City Mafia]

 

[Patrick Duffy]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bass showed up as a 71% Senior year kicker.  It showed the first month.    But then, With Bojo, he had 12 games without a miss for the season.  In fact after kicking 6 FG against the Jets in week 7, he would only miss 3 more in the next 12 weeks (23/26) through the playoffs.  52/55 PATs all year.  

 

This continued with Crosby: zero misses until week 5, when he was missing chip shots.  But yeah despite all that, must be Bojo.....

Yeah it's kinda like some are saying Bojo is sole reason. I mean the guy has had few bad holds, but some seem to imply any and every FG that is missed is on Bojo due to bad holds. That's simply not the case.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yeah it's kinda like some are saying Bojo is sole reason. I mean the guy has had few bad holds, but some seem to imply any and every FG that is missed is on Bojo due to bad holds. That's simply not the case.

 

Yup.  You can't say Bass is an "excellent kicker" and in the same breath claim Bojo was a bad holder.  Also, Crosby had no problems with Bojo holding for a month.  Then in the Cincy game he clearly had the yips.  You can't blame the holder for 3 misses from PAT, 36 and 40.  It's all an absurd argument.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I mean it could be on one a little more than other. Anyway,did you see the 4 kicks that he missed and the hold for each one? Asking because I haven't so don't know. In any event we know Bojo messed up at least one of the holds for sure of the 4 kicks. I'd be willing to bet that he didn't mess up on every single hold that FG/XP was missed. 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Bass showed up as a 71% Senior year kicker.  It showed the first month.    But then, With Bojo, he had 12 games without a miss for the season.  In fact after kicking 6 FG against the Jets in week 7, he would only miss 3 more in the next 12 weeks (23/26) through the playoffs.  52/55 PATs all year.  

 

This continued with Crosby: zero misses until week 5, when he was missing chip shots.  But yeah despite all that, must be Bojo.....

 

As I said, if one guy is the constant (i.e. the K and LS are the same) with 2 different teams who are having kicking issues, it's likely that guy who is the problem.  Last year when Bass (a college 79.4% kicker, nice try) had a rough start to the season, Jay Feely, a former NFL kicker, said during a telecast that he analyzed the misses and said it was on the holder for not getting the ball into proper orientation.  And we know for sure that at least 1 of Crosby's misses was on Bojo. 

[Mr. WEO]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

As I said, if one guy is the constant (i.e. the K and LS are the same) with 2 different teams who are having kicking issues, it's likely that guy who is the problem.  Last year when Bass (a college 79.4% kicker, nice try) had a rough start to the season, Jay Feely, a former NFL kicker, said during a telecast that he analyzed the misses and said it was on the holder for not getting the ball into proper orientation.  And we know for sure that at least 1 of Crosby's misses was on Bojo. 

 

He had one season over 80%.  He came out after a  Senior season of barely over 70%.  

 

As I documented, no problems with Bojo holding after the first month or so of his 2020 season.  You can't (so you didn't) dispute this.

 

Crosby/Bojo missed zero Pat/FG until las week.  Zero.  Then, in one game, Crosby was missing chip shots.  He was a mess.  Made all 4 kicks today.

 

You ignore all of the success of 2 kickers between early last year and up to last week and conclude Bojo is a problem--because Bass/Bojo struggled over year ago for a bit.  That's an impossible argument to convincingly make.

 

How do we know "for sure" one of the many misses was on Bojo?  The OP's article cites struggles of the LS....and notes that Bojo got the laces out ("late", but out).

 

 

If you want modify your argument to "Bojo had maybe one (maybe even 2) bad holds since week 6 of 2020", then go right ahead.  

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 10/16/2021 at 5:09 PM, BearNorth said:

Knowing McDermott's attention to detail, wondering if his place kick holding was why Bojo is now with his third team.  Sure's he not happy about the game-changing punt block against the Steelers, but Bojo's holding adventures aren't new.

Not thrilled with Haack taking 3 steps to punt the damn ball. I miss Moorman.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

8 hours ago, Steel City Mafia said:

 

Great kick, but also kinda misplayed there. The returner catches that, and he probably has a lot of room to get some of that yardage back. 

 

That said, Bojo has a great leg, no doubt. He also started to really improve on his pooch kicks. In the end, I think he just wanted too much money and overestimated his market value.