Spencer Brown - will he start on the OL? (Update - Yes)

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Why do you keep saying that Cody Ford is struggling Cody Ford is not struggling he had some bad place in the third game but has been way more consistent than mongo

Spencer Brown is a tackle he does not fix our interior offensive line issues he is the swing tackle for this team I feel good about where he is just in case something bad happens at that position

 

For now

 

Ford was bad on Sunday, for sure. Mongo was very bad week 1. They have had 1 stinker each so far. 

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bills have two very good tackles. Brown is not starting anytime soon.  Dawkins is under contract until 2024 and is only 26.  William signed a 3 year deal with an out clause after 2022.  He is still only 29.  If all goes well Brown remains a swing OT and places in 2023.

He's too tall to play center.  I just don't see him making the field barring an injury or one of the tackles regressing.  

 

He’ll be our swing Tackle for awhile.  Williams had a good game against WFT.  He also played very well last year which is why we extended him.  There is no rush to replace one of our starting Tackles, and O Linemen get hurt.  He’ll play when needed.

 

He is not a Guard.  Name another 6’9” Guard.  Height can be you’re friend at Tackle if They bend well.  He’s still raw.

 Why rush him in the line up, and what are people going to say when one of the stud DE’s in the league demolish him.  He’s getting away with raw power and he certainly has more than enough of that attribute, but he has a lot to learn on technique.

 

I love the guy, but just not now.

 

Thats my two cents.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

He’ll be our swing Tackle for awhile.  Williams had a good game against WFT.  He also played very well last year which is why we extended him.  There is no rush to replace one of our starting Tackles, and O Linemen get hurt.  He’ll play when needed.

 

He is not a Guard.  Name another 6’9” Guard.  Height can be you’re friend at Tackle if They bend well.  He’s still raw.

 Why rush him in the line up, and what are people going to say when one of the stud DE’s in the league demolish him.  He’s getting away with raw power and he certainly has more than enough of that attribute, but he has a lot to learn on technique.

 

I love the guy, but just not now.

 

Thats my two cents.

I think Brown can earn a platoon situation at RT and give Williams some snaps off while he learns the speed of the nfl. Especially if we're up big in the second half of some of these games.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I get it. 
 

But a little perspective here…

 

The bills offense has scored 35 and 41 points in the two most recent weeks. They are built to throw the ball. They aren’t going to go messing with the OL combination, especially at tackle IMO, unless there is an injury or something drastically bad happens. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Gentlemen, Cody is…confounding to me.  

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Feliciano and Ford both need to be replaced; unfortunately, Beane drafted two tackles (and used a 2 on an inactive DE) instead.

[DCofNC]

I say we throw him in as a TE in goal line situations, let him block for a while, then throw in the surprise pass to him.   Make teams start thinking more, always good to have a LB have to pause before going on a play.

23 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Feliciano and Ford both need to be replaced; unfortunately, Beane drafted two tackles (and used a 2 on an inactive DE) instead.

I don’t know if I’ll ever understand the Boogie pick.  The OL needed the pick, but apparently they fell in love.

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

He is not a Guard.  Name another 6’9” Guard.  

 

 

Eric Pears. Thank you Doug Marrone. 

 

 

 

I think Pears might actually have been 6'8 but still the principle remains...

[Doc]

Keep him as swing OT, develop him at RT and then have him replace Williams when the time is right (if they cut him after the season, it's a $3.6M cap hit, which is manageable, but unless he's not playing well, not worth it).  Why rush it?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The first two weeks Williams struggled so would have been easy to slide him in there, however this past week Williams was very good.  Ford started the year out good, but did struggle the last game.

 

Think will depend on what happens as year goes on.  If Williams struggles, easy one for one replacement.  If Ford becomes the weak link, could try and slide Williams into Fords spot and play Brown at RT.  But wondering if Williams at guard would be any better after as long as he's played tackle here.

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Why do you keep saying that Cody Ford is struggling Cody Ford is not struggling he had some bad place in the third game but has been way more consistent than mongo

Spencer Brown is a tackle he does not fix our interior offensive line issues he is the swing tackle for this team I feel good about where he is just in case something bad happens at that position

 

For now

To some, Cody Ford is the offensive version of Tremaine Edmunds. I also think Cody is playing well. 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Can he play tightend?

 

With the fairly recent rule change that requires teams to dress 9 OL it makes a lot of sense to use a backup tackle in place of the blocking TE.  No need to waste an extra active roster spot there.  Brown, whose background is at TE, makes a ton of sense in that role.  I thought that it would be likely the team would try to go this route after we drafted him.  It must’ve worked out because they cleaned house at TE on cut down day and are rolling with it. 

[thenorthremembers]

I think its very likely you'll see the Bills move Williams to Guard next year, and have Brown starting at RT.   Ford has been horrendous so far, he gave up 12 pressures last week.   

[4BillsintheBurgh]

35 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

The first two weeks Williams struggled so would have been easy to slide him in there, however this past week Williams was very good.  Ford started the year out good, but did struggle the last game.

 

Think will depend on what happens as year goes on.  If Williams struggles, easy one for one replacement.  If Ford becomes the weak link, could try and slide Williams into Fords spot and play Brown at RT.  But wondering if Williams at guard would be any better after as long as he's played tackle here.

Sitting in the oline meeting room watching Spencer Brown pancake a guy or two might have been some motivation for Williams. I'm sure Brown has had some bad plays (like the failed 4th down throwback play against pgh), but I'm sure Williams is aware of the good plays too.

[Royale with Cheese]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Eric Pears. Thank you Doug Marrone. 

 

 

 

I think Pears might actually have been 6'8 but still the principle remains...

Alex Boone was 6”8 I believe.

[colin]

down the road some i could see brown at LT, dawkins at LG, williams at RT, and whoever wins it at C and RG.  we also drafted that other super athlete in the 4th, and an OG later.

 

would not shock me to see brown at lt, dawkins at LG, who ever at C, later rook at RG, and 4th rounder kid at RT.  save as much money and get as young as possible.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, colin said:

down the road some i could see brown at LT, dawkins at LG, williams at RT, and whoever wins it at C and RG.  we also drafted that other super athlete in the 4th, and an OG later.

 

would not shock me to see brown at lt, dawkins at LG, who ever at C, later rook at RG, and 4th rounder kid at RT.  save as much money and get as young as possible.

I think it’s more likely Williams goes to guard and Brown goes to RT.

[colin]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think it’s more likely Williams goes to guard and Brown goes to RT.

 

 

i hear ya.  for some reason, i have this idea that dawkins would be a monster LG.

 

either way, our FO wants to get younger cheaper and more athletic on the lines.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Wait, isn’t 94 the guy for WFT that was giving Ford a run for his money?

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Keep him as swing OT, develop him at RT and then have him replace Williams when the time is right (if they cut him after the season, it's a $3.6M cap hit, which is manageable, but unless he's not playing well, not worth it).  Why rush it?

No reason to cut Williams, I think he could be a sizable upgrade at guard. That said, throughout his career he’s always excelled at RT but when kicked inside he wasn’t the same player. 

[DCbillsfan]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Wait, isn’t 94 the guy for WFT that was giving Ford a run for his money?

Yes.  94 Daron Payne.  Beat Ford consistently off the snap.  Ford needs to work on getting off the snap better.  Doesn't matter how strong you are if your guy is consistently beating you on the snap.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, DCbillsfan said:

Yes.  94 Daron Payne.  Beat Ford consistently off the snap.  Ford needs to work on getting off the snap better.  Doesn't matter how strong you are if your guy is consistently beating you on the snap.  

Holy crap, Payne is a great player and Brown tossed him around like a PO’d bouncer. 

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Alex Boone was 6”8 I believe.

Ohio State is playing 4 OTs on the OL and I hate it. “Best 5” 🙄

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Ohio State is playing 4 OTs on the OL and I hate it. “Best 5” 🙄

How is the line doing this year so far?

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How is the line doing this year so far?

The “guards” are too tall and can’t pull. They have too many good OTs and want them all to play so they don’t transfer, it’s annoying because it’s not that simple, what amounts to 4 left tackles and a center out there 

[clayboy54]

Typically, you don't put long and tall men at guard. Their length seldom translates to the guard position. This is due to both the working area as well as their leverage. Long and tall men operate best with more space at a position where low leverage is not as important. This position on the OL is tackle.

 

That said, freak athletes may defy traditional thought here. It is generally thought to be a bad idea, though. Maybe someone with OL experience could chime in about this.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

The first two weeks Williams struggled so would have been easy to slide him in there, however this past week Williams was very good.  Ford started the year out good, but did struggle the last game.

 

Think will depend on what happens as year goes on.  If Williams struggles, easy one for one replacement.  If Ford becomes the weak link, could try and slide Williams into Fords spot and play Brown at RT.  But wondering if Williams at guard would be any better after as long as he's played tackle here.

 

If Ford doesn't get better, I can see Boettger in there before I see them moving Williams there.  He wasn't good in Carolina when moved to OG, but that could have been the lingering effects of his injury.  Maybe he's gotten better?  I guess we'll find out.

[hemma]

Not that Brown should be directly compared to Pears, but Pears was a decent RT that became part of a horrid OL when Marrone moved him to RG.

 

Hate to screw this guy up at the very beginning of his career.

[Logic]

I wonder if "sooner rather than later" means 2022, as opposed to the 2023 timeline that many assumed.

It's hard to imagine Brown taking Williams' spot unless Williams seriously starts struggling. I thought he looked really good against WFT and Chase Young in particular.

Meanwhile, Brown doesn't seem to be a guard -- nor do I think the staff would want to put him there -- and Williams was terrible as a guard in Carolina.

IF Brown starts this season, it'll either be because he outplays Williams and takes his job or due to injury at one of the two tackle spots. Otherwise, I can see it being quite possible, and even likely, that Brown takes over at RT in 2022 and Williams is cut for cap savings.

Edit: What I'm really hoping is that Tommy Doyle winds up being worth a damn, too, because then we'd be in a really good place with tackle depth. I'm not so sure how often fifth round offensive tackles go on to have long, productive careers, though.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Logic

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I wonder if "sooner rather than later" means 2022, as opposed to the 2023 timeline that many assumed.

It's hard to imagine Brown taking Williams' spot unless Williams seriously starts struggling. I thought he looked really good against WFT and Chase Young in particular.

Meanwhile, Brown doesn't seem to be a guard -- nor do I think the staff would want to put him there -- and Williams was terrible as a guard in Carolina.

IF Brown starts this season, it'll either be because he outplays Williams and takes his job or due to injury at one of the two tackle spots. Otherwise, I can see it being quite possible, and even likely, that Brown takes over at RT in 2022 and Williams is cut for cap savings.

Edit: What I'm really hoping is that Tommy Doyle winds up being worth a damn, too, because then we'd be in a really good place with tackle depth. I'm not so sure how often fifth round offensive tackles go on to have long, productive careers, though.

 

It would have been nice if Anderson had stuck and developed.  What they need more than anything is good G/C play.  

 

And the bolded is probably what he meant.  But again, you can't predict injuries and Williams just came off an excellent performance.

[BigAl2526]

12 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think he was drafted to eventually replace Daryl Williams. It makes sense small school high end raw prospect who can replace Williams who is on a 3 year contract but the struggle at the guard position and Browns faster development than expected makes me think by mid season you will see:

 

LT-Dawkins

LG- Feliciano

C-Morse

RG-Williams

RT-Brown

I'm going the other way.  Daryl Williams was not all that effective when he tried to play guard..  Obviously, at 6'8" Spencer Brown is not built to be a guard.  However, with his elite athleticism for the tackle position, I think he looks more like a left tackle.  I think the Bills might move Dawkins to guard, and install Brown at the left tackle spot.  They leave Daryl Williams on the right.  Obviously, it will help if Tommy Doyle can develop into a swing tackle.

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

I'm going the other way.  Daryl Williams was not all that effective when he tried to play guard..  Obviously, at 6'8" Spencer Brown is not built to be a guard.  However, with his elite athleticism for the tackle position, I think he looks more like a left tackle.  I think the Bills might move Dawkins to guard, and install Brown at the left tackle spot.  They leave Daryl Williams on the right.  Obviously, it will help if Tommy Doyle can develop into a swing tackle.

Why would they move someone who they know can play LT at a high level for a complete unknown? Has Brown ever even played LT? Moving Dion inside looks sounds like a huge mistake. 

[Doc]

Then again, Jonathan Ogden was 6'9" and played OG for a year.

[billsfan89]

I think Brown will only start if there is an injury at a tackle position. I think if Ford is deemed by the coaching staff to struggle they toss Ike in. I don't know why people sleep on Ike, I thought the O-line played best last season when it was Dawkins-Ike-Mitch-Mongo-Williams. Ike didn't light the world on fire but he was solid and was far from a weak link. I tend to trust this coaching staff and their analysis of players so if they feel Ford is decent enough or will find his footing I am OK with him being there. But I am curious if they maybe play Ike there if Ford is deemed to be struggling. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by billsfan89

[muppy]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

not just a one time thing either

PANCAKE

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Keep him as swing OT, develop him at RT and then have him replace Williams when the time is right (if they cut him after the season, it's a $3.6M cap hit, which is manageable, but unless he's not playing well, not worth it).  Why rush it?

 

If they cut him before June 1 it's a $3.6 million dead cap hit all in 2022 but they save $5.3 million on the cap in that scenario. Or if they cut him post June 1 they can spread the dead cap out, $1.8 million in 2022 and 2023. So there is some flexibility built in. If Spencer Brown continues to look the part there's no sense in paying Darryl Williams when an equal or better replacement is waiting in the wings. If Williams keeps playing well maybe we can even get a decent draft pick back in a trade next offseason. Free up some cap and get a pick back without missing a beat.

[Mango]

The only way I see Brown starting at either tackle position (assuming everybody is healthy) is if Dawkins or Williams kicks inside and Brown takes one of the tackle positions. 

I guess in theory you could do it. After this year Dawkins would be in the 5-10 range for top paid guards so it isn't totally wild to move a guy with that contract inside. Williams would be cheap in 2022 and has experience at guard in the NFL.

 

Feels like a weird move you make in Madden because of ratings, etc. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Mango

[gdabillsfan]

7 hours ago, Buddo said:

That clip just above these posts doesn’t show Brown at guard, at all. Looks to me that he’s lined up outside RT

Fwiw, he was named tackle eligible a couple of times last Sunday, and they may be thinking of using him, in those types of situations 

 

Absolutely agree. They have brought him in as eligible when they are running heavy sets, and he's been great. I wonder how he does catching the pass, that is one big dude to tackle.

[ColoradoBills]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If they cut him before June 1 it's a $3.6 million dead cap hit all in 2022 but they save $5.3 million on the cap in that scenario. Or if they cut him post June 1 they can spread the dead cap out, $1.8 million in 2022 and 2023. So there is some flexibility built in. If Spencer Brown continues to look the part there's no sense in paying Darryl Williams when an equal or better replacement is waiting in the wings. If Williams keeps playing well maybe we can even get a decent draft pick back in a trade next offseason. Free up some cap and get a pick back without missing a beat.

 

DWs contract definitely could be tradeable.  One detail to consider is he gets $4.35M guaranteed 2023 Salary on the 5th day of 2022.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/daryl-williams-16828/

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Why would they move someone who they know can play LT at a high level for a complete unknown? Has Brown ever even played LT? Moving Dion inside looks sounds like a huge mistake. 

100% agree. Dawkins is not elite but he is solid. Both guards are average to poor. Brown is a good long term investment and a cheap one for the future. That future is more than a year away if all goes to plan in 2021 and 2022.

[Patrick Duffy]

Doubt it. Unless an injury occurs he will replace Williams next season imo. Hard for me to see him at G. He will be at RT I believe is the most likely scenario. Will continue to see him rotated in some, but won't take over/start unless DW gets injured (knock on wood)