Rico Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Fugliest player in the league, don't want no rat-face QB on the Bills. Kansas City is a much better fit for him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 No. During the drought years, I often questioned whether i was just "rooting for laundry" without regard to who was in the Bills laundry. just please win. Now I root for JA 17 and the Buffalo Bills. If Mahomes put on a Bills uniform (while JA was still alive) it would feel like rooting for laundry again. JA is my QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, FireChans said: None of which Allen has done. Mahomes is off to arguably the best start in NFL QB history. Allen is not. I get the intangibles thing, but Mahomes certainly has his fair share of intangibles and making jaw dropping plays out of nothing to keep his team cruising. Allen needs to win a SB and an MVP before this is a real debate. No QB has won 2 MVPs without winning one. Compare the supporting cast Mahomes has played with to the one Allen has played with till this past year and having an offensive genius as a head coach doesn’t hurt either add to that Allen is the Bills running game while Mahomes has a pretty good set of backs in KC…the debate is closer then you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 My heart says no but my head says yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Fairburn's answer was dumb. It should have been Knox for Kelce. That would make a far bigger improvement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Think this will be the next Brady vs Manning debate for the next 20 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 @GunnerBill I thought you had better taste than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Mahomes gets a knock on his ceiling because he has been great out of the box and has been consistently great. Hard for folks to crow about your “ceiling” when you’ve already done things that 99% of QB’s won’t come close to achieving. Well, you asked the question: Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? And, if you think he hasn't, who do you think is closer to their ceiling, Mahomes, or Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Gugny said: I certainly won't take anything away from Mahomes. He's awesome. But let's be honest, here. He was drafted by a much better organization, coaching staff and team - which immediately surrounded him with supreme talent. Josh Allen? Not so much. It's no coincidence that Josh Allen continues to improve as the talent around him improves. That's not to say that Allen hasn't made incredible personal improvements; he has. Throwing passes to Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones isn't setting any QB up to be successful. Replace that with Diggs and Beasley and *poof* now Josh Allen gets the second most MVP votes. Has Mahomes been more successful? Yes. Much more. But it's not just because Mahomes is the better QB. If he is, it ain't by much. I'll stick with Josh. Now get Josh that Pro Bowl TE one of these years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcadia bob Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 If really offered KC and Bills say no thank we are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Sad how the Bills finally got their QB and 24 of you (as of now) would still ship him off for Mahommes. No loyalty to best Bills QB since Jim. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 There’s not a player in the league I would trade Allen for. He’s the franchise and I’m here going to watch every second of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Yes. Mahomes is probably the only QB I'd take over Allen. He's done it for 3 years at a special level, so he definitely has the nod over Allen in my book, who's done it 1 season. In the end Allen might be better, but at this pt. In time anyone that would choose Allen over Mahomes is clearly a rabid Bills fan. I get it, I love him too, but I'm trying to be objective here. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Is this a starting Bill's player for another starter of the same position on another team? Easy answer is Kelce, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: @GunnerBill I thought you had better taste than this He didn't like Allen coming out, had a low grade on him. He did like Mason Rudolph though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Putting Mahomes on the Bills doesn't gurantee that he wins MVP's or Super Bowl rings...just as putting Allen in KC doesn't guranatee that they don't enjoy the same success that they have with Mahomes. The Cheifs are good, Mahomes is good...the Bills are good, Allen is good. Let's just enjoy that... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospector Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Fairburn's answer was dumb. It should have been Knox for Kelce. That would make a far bigger improvement. I was gonna say Knox for Kittle... but Kelce works also 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 36 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Well, you asked the question: Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? And, if you think he hasn't, who do you think is closer to their ceiling, Mahomes, or Allen? I don’t think that either 25 year old has hit their ceiling. I don’t know who is closer to their ceiling. Maybe Patrick Mahomes’ ceiling is the best QB ever of all time. Wins MVP 10 times. Breaks every record. In that case, he hasn’t come close to it. This is why ceiling is a terrible argument. If Josh isn’t as good as Mahomes right now, you can just say he “hasn’t hit his ceiling yet.” Well what’s his ceiling? What if his ceiling is current Pat Mahomes? What if Pat Mahomes’ ceiling is way higher than Josh Allen’s ceiling? Is the only argument that Josh has a higher ceiling or hasn’t hit his ceiling yet because he wasn’t great his first two season and Mahomes was? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospector Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Or Singletary for McCaffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 No f-fen way!!!! Josh and I bleed blue! 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Prospector said: I was gonna say Knox for Kittle... but Kelce works also Yeah, I later thought about it and you could also say Kittle or Waller. And they are both younger than Kelce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 3 hours ago, FireChans said: I mean if the question isn’t viewed through the lens of “who is the better QB” then sure, Ryan Fitzpatrick has an argument in this debate lol. This is actually the best answer. The difference between Josh, Tre and Diggs and the respective best players at those positions is approaching zero. Would be terrible positions to “upgrade”. Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? Does he really? Would anyone trade Josh Allen for Fitz? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? 2 hours ago, eball said: I really don’t believe that is a valid conclusion at this point. Josh still hasn’t reached his ceiling; has Mahomes? You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. Ask who is the better QB, allen or Mahomes, outside of a Bills message board and I feel the answer would be definitive at this point in the more careers. I don’t think either of them have reached their ceilings tbh. Allen may eventually be the better qb.....but I don’t see how anyone can say that Josh is better than Mahomes after what each qb has done so far 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, NewEra said: Does he really? Would anyone trade Josh Allen for Fitz? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. Ask who is the better QB, allen or Mahomes, outside of a Bills message board and I feel the answer would be definitive at this point in the more careers. I don’t think either of them have reached their ceilings tbh. Allen may eventually be the better qb.....but I don’t see how anyone can say that Josh is better than Mahomes after what each qb has done so far Mrs. Fitzpatrick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: That's a weird answer to the question he was asked. I'd rather trade Jacob Hollister for Travis Kelce than Allen for Mahomes. Or Aaron Donald for Vernon Butler. He was given a question with limitless potential and chose the most boring answer. To be fair to Fairburn, there was a 2nd half to this response that I didn't post... here it was: If we take quarterback out of the question, I’d trade Dawson Knox for either George Kittle or Travis Kelce. Both tight ends would be huge upgrades. Kittle would be the better long-term play, but Kelce may be the more dominant player in the short term. Imagine the Bills’ offense with one of those players running alongside Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis? That wouldn’t be fun for defensive coordinators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stosh64 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Not surprised by the list of those that would rather have Mahomes than Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 I'm a Josh guy and here's why Mahomes has had the best offensive supporting cast in football since he took his first snap. Great offensive coach, great O-line, great WR / TE corps, and a legit running game. In the Super Bowl a couple of months ago Mahomes had to play behind a bad O-Line for the first time in his career and he looked pedestrian at best. It was really the first time in Mahomes career that he was asked to overcome a deficiency on the Chiefs offense and he couldn't do it. Contrast that with Josh who has been asked to win year one with no WRs, year two with an average at best O-line, and last year with no running game. In all those situations Josh put the team on his back, overcame the shortcomings of the offense around him, and kept finding ways to win games on his own. Even as a rookie Josh willed that horrible offense to victories. It's my opinion that Josh has done more with less. I think Mahomes is the perfect QB to run a high octane offense like the Chiefs have fielded. Josh doesn't need a high octane offense to win, I think Josh would have won 8 games with the Jets' offense last year. That's the difference. Mahomes plays fantastic football inside a fantastic offense. I think Josh can play fantastic football with anyone. 5 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Allen. Mahomes doesnt survive 2018. Give me Allen over the next 10. If they swap teams last year does Mahomes beat Kc with Allen? I dont think so. Allen is OUR guy. Went from project and reach to a top 5 qb. As a fan I dont see how you swap now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 55 minutes ago, FireChans said: I don’t think that either 25 year old has hit their ceiling. I don’t know who is closer to their ceiling. Maybe Patrick Mahomes’ ceiling is the best QB ever of all time. Wins MVP 10 times. Breaks every record. In that case, he hasn’t come close to it. This is why ceiling is a terrible argument. If Josh isn’t as good as Mahomes right now, you can just say he “hasn’t hit his ceiling yet.” Well what’s his ceiling? What if his ceiling is current Pat Mahomes? What if Pat Mahomes’ ceiling is way higher than Josh Allen’s ceiling? Is the only argument that Josh has a higher ceiling or hasn’t hit his ceiling yet because he wasn’t great his first two season and Mahomes was? This is pure semantics. Don't call it a ceiling. It's just a reference point. The actual debate in this context is: Which QB is going to be better several years down the road, and I think that is a rational question. It's not like we're comparing Mahomes to Darnold, or something. There's good reason to be optimistic on Allen's future. The point I'm making as it pertains to this thread is that I think given both QBs potential, we are better off continuing to build off the culture, and team that includes Josh Allen, and that trading him for Mahomes would undermine that culture. In other words, in the short term, trading for Mahomes would damage the Bills as a team. And, in the long term, or several years down the road, Josh Allen may very well be the better QB. Ceiling is just another way of referring to potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: To be fair to Fairburn, there was a 2nd half to this response that I didn't post... here it was: If we take quarterback out of the question, I’d trade Dawson Knox for either George Kittle or Travis Kelce. Both tight ends would be huge upgrades. Kittle would be the better long-term play, but Kelce may be the more dominant player in the short term. Imagine the Bills’ offense with one of those players running alongside Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis? That wouldn’t be fun for defensive coordinators. That should have been his only answer. Mahomes had just 83 more total yards, 5 fewer total TDs and 6 fewer turnovers (not counting the Rams non-INT and the Moss fumble that was charged to Josh) than Josh in about a half game less of football, while Josh had a better completion percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said: This is pure semantics. Don't call it a ceiling. It's just a reference point. The actual debate in this context is: Which QB is going to be better several years down the road, and I think that is a rational question. It's not like we're comparing Mahomes to Darnold, or something. There's good reason to be optimistic on Allen's future. The point I'm making as it pertains to this thread is that I think given both QBs potential, we are better off continuing to build off the culture, and team that includes Josh Allen, and that trading him for Mahomes would undermine that culture. In other words, in the short term, trading for Mahomes would damage the Bills as a team. And, in the long term, or several years down the road, Josh Allen may very well be the better QB. Ceiling is just another way of referring to potential. Correct. And I would predict that the guy who has been consistently better will continue to consistently better. Versus the guy who hasn’t been better, let alone consistently better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) I think both QBs are great and I'm definitely not wishing injury on anyone but I watched a lot of chiefs games and I'm telling you that Mahomes leans ALOT on Travis Kelce. I mean to the point if Kelce were to miss playing time Mahomes play would suffer BIGTIME. I feel Kelce is more important to the chiefs offense than Tyreek Hill. Kelce either lead or tied as the team leader in targets in 11 out 15 regular season games in 2020. Hill and Kelce are the PERFECT complement for Mahomes to play off of. I feel like it would be easier to replace Hill than Kelce. Edited May 24, 2021 by Protocal69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) Ya can’t turn your back on the guy that brought the Buffalo Bills back from the dead, we have adopted Josh’s Allen as our guy, just as much as he adopted Buffalo and us fans as his team, I guess I ‘m old fashioned in this case, but I see Allen as the perfect QB for Bills Nation. Edited May 24, 2021 by Don Otreply 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Voting yes on this is the corniest ***** I’ve ever seen lmfao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Voting yes on this is the corniest ***** I’ve ever seen lmfao You don’t know what corny means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: You don’t know what corny means. It’s ok looks like you got it covered👍👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 hours ago, MJS said: As far as benefiting the team, why trade a top 5 QB for another top 5 QB even if he is better? Why not trade, say, Dawson Knox for Travis Kelce, or Mario Addison for Khalil Mack or TJ Watt? You have a chance to majorly upgrade the team. Allen is one of the strengths of the team, so take a weakness and make it a strength by focusing on another position. Agreed. Fairburn took the lazy way out of an interesting question. The Mahomes/Allen debate is fun, but unless you think Allen maxed out this year it's a poor choice for a positional swap out IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 I voted yes based off the poll question but wouldn't do it based off the actual question Fairburn answered. Give me a 22 year old Chase Young for Mario Addison. If Rousseau (or Basham) turns into a stud we'd have a fierce pass rush for the next decade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: It’s ok looks like you got it covered👍👍 Good one 🙄 I voted no. Josh all day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 You forgot the ***** NO!!! option. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 If we get to swap any starter then I probably wouldn’t start with QB. I’d swap Aaron Donald with Star before thinking about Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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