Derek Carr reportedly in demand, could lead to trade

[BuffaloRebound]

6 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

Didn't think it would be the very first post of the day that I've read, which may be the very worst post of the day. 

Laugh all you want, Mariota will be somebody’s starter in September.  And I bet Mariota would fetch more in a trade right now than Carr.  I don’t think Mariota is that great.  We just already know what Carr is... extremely mediocre. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

Imo, he is neither. In the couple of games I saw this year, he seemed to show flashes of the talent he displayed in his first couple of years. But something is off now and I couldnt place my finger on it (and I dont have the inclination to re-watch Raiders games). Not supported by stats, but I feel he could still serve as an adequate starter if the rest of the team is above average. Or as a bridge QB. I for one am not ready to relegate him to the scrap heap yet. But I do think Gruden is very optimistic if he thinks he can get 2 x 1st round picks for him

 

 

I have no doubt (and stated so at the time) that Gruden would get rid of Carr as soon as he could.

[Mango]

15 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Interesting idea but who gives up two #1’s to begin with for Carr?

 

 

 

If Houston is trading Watson, they are now a QB needy team. Why not just package Carr in the trade rather than get a haul, just to flip it. Carr and a 2 x 1st rounders and call it a day. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I don’t see how any team is going to give away a ton of picks for Carr.  I guess anything can happen.  It’s a big gamble of assuming they have a deal with Houston for them to back out.  It just seems too much like the NBA.

 

i'm telling y'all, Antiques Roadshow, NFL edition:

How much can I get for this vase I've got lying about, that I think looks pretty similar to this other vase that just sold for top dollar?  LOL.

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

i'm telling y'all, Antiques Roadshow, NFL edition:

How much can I get for this vase I've got lying about, that I think looks pretty similar to this other vase that just sold for top dollar?  LOL.

I agree that the Raiders saw that trade, the other teams that were chasing stafford, and thought this could be a way to create a market for their Qb who they want to replace and obtain the assets to go after the one they really want. I don’t think gruden had ever been happy with carr and doubt he’s there next year, and if he is still there, there will be a rookie drafted pretty high to take his place eventually aka asap. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But something is off now and I couldnt place my finger on it (and I dont have the inclination to re-watch Raiders games).

You would be sweating, too, if NPeterman was only a position or three behind you on the roster...😳

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I agree that the Raiders saw that trade, the other teams that were chasing stafford, and thought this could be a way to create a market for their Qb who they want to replace and obtain the assets to go after the one they really want. I don’t think gruden had ever been happy with carr and doubt he’s there next year, and if he is still there, there will be a rookie drafted pretty high to take his place eventually aka asap. 

Fully agree.   I also think much of the QB movement talk is the result of the NFL Hyperbole Machine running with ideas being thrown about.   When the dust settles in July, I think you'll see a lot less movement than everyone originally expected.

[Sharky7337]

Car's Brothers career died in Houston how fitting that would be lol

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

If Houston is trading Watson, they are now a QB needy team. Why not just package Carr in the trade rather than get a haul, just to flip it. Carr and a 2 x 1st rounders and call it a day. 

 

 

That’s not enough.  Carr + 2 1sts, 2nd and. 3rd might get it done imo

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

My mistake, meant to say LV.  I can’t keep track of where the Raiders are. 

Few of us are able.  I tend to relate back to Oakland the First. 😁

[Mango]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

That’s not enough.  Carr + 2 1sts, 2nd and. 3rd might get it done imo

 

That is fair. I am just saying, why make it more complicated than it needs to be. Houston will need a replacement. Unless the Raiders are trying to do right by Carr and not send him into that shirt hole. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Imo, he is neither. In the couple of games I saw this year, he seemed to show flashes of the talent he displayed in his first couple of years. But something is off now and I couldnt place my finger on it (and I dont have the inclination to re-watch Raiders games). Not supported by stats, but I feel he could still serve as an adequate starter if the rest of the team is above average. Or as a bridge QB. I for one am not ready to relegate him to the scrap heap yet. But I do think Gruden is very optimistic if he thinks he can get 2 x 1st round picks for him

 

This could just be me, but I feel as though Gruden is starting to feel a little tingle of warmth in his seat. 

 

He was brought in to lift the Raiders from "Good to Great", or maybe from "mediocre to great".  They had that 12-4, WC year in 2016 then a fall-off in 2017 under Del Rio.  Gruden was gonna reverse course and lift them back to 12-4 and beyond...except it hasn't gone down that way.

 

What's easier for a star-of-star HC: scrutinize his own actions and scheme for failing to get the most out of his players, or point the finger at his good-but-not-great QB?  Carr was good enough to help the Raiders score 40 freakin' points and defeat the Chiefs, their only "starters" loss of the season.

 

This is not a "bum" passing chart, btw.  This is the passing chart of a guy you ought to be able to win with, if other pieces are in place around him. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You would be sweating, too, if NPeterman was only a position or three behind you on the roster...😳

 

I swear, whatever that guy's got in the QB room it's like Catnip for Coaches.

 

Either that, or compromising polaroids.  Maybe both?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I swear, whatever that guy's got in the QB room it's like Catnip for Coaches.

 

Either that, or compromising polaroids.  Maybe both?

Chuckie likes him since he can unleash a profanity laden rant on Peterman without as much as a peep out of Nate or his agent.  I recall a while back seeing Gruden haranguing on NP over the time he held onto the ball; I think someone had linked to it on a TSW thread.

[BuffaloBills1998]

16 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Interesting idea but who gives up two #1’s to begin with for Carr?

 

 

He’s not even worth one first round pick lol I wouldn’t give anything more than a late 2nd or early 3rd for Carr. He’s never taken the raiders to the playoffs

[dave mcbride]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This could just be me, but I feel as though Gruden is starting to feel a little tingle of warmth in his seat. 

 

He was brought in to lift the Raiders from "Good to Great", or maybe from "mediocre to great".  They had that 12-4, WC year in 2016 then a fall-off in 2017 under Del Rio.  Gruden was gonna reverse course and lift them back to 12-4 and beyond...except it hasn't gone down that way.

 

What's easier for a star-of-star HC: scrutinize his own actions and scheme for failing to get the most out of his players, or point the finger at his good-but-not-great QB?  Carr was good enough to help the Raiders score 40 freakin' points and defeat the Chiefs, their only "starters" loss of the season.

 

This is not a "bum" passing chart, btw.  This is the passing chart of a guy you ought to be able to win with, if other pieces are in place around him. 

 

 

 

I swear, whatever that guy's got in the QB room it's like Catnip for Coaches.

 

Either that, or compromising polaroids.  Maybe both?

That upper left quadrant says "thank you, Gregg Williams!"

 

More seriously, the Raiders offense was well above average in every category except turnovers (Carr himself had 11 fumbles, which is too many for a guy who only got sacked 4.8 percent of the time and doesn't run much), but their defense was AWFUL. Not only were they terrible in yards and points surrendered, they were 30th in forcing turnovers. They lost a lot of high-scoring games. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2020.htm

 

People complain about Ed Oliver, but Clelin Ferrell was drafted 4th overall in that same draft as an edge player and his production is minimal. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by dave mcbride

[hjnick]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

i'm telling y'all, Antiques Roadshow, NFL edition:

How much can I get for this vase I've got lying about, that I think looks pretty similar to this other vase that just sold for top dollar?  LOL.

You got to actually give credit to the Lions... they put that old vase out there, got another vase back that's about the same, 2 first rounders and a third AND their new vase is much younger... 😆

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

If Houston is trading Watson, they are now a QB needy team. Why not just package Carr in the trade rather than get a haul, just to flip it. Carr and a 2 x 1st rounders and call it a day. 

 

 

If I'm Houston, take the 6 first rounds, laugh all the way to the bank.... tank next year, get the first pick in the draft and get your QB of the future...

[JMF2006]

I thought last years QB carousel was unusual.

 

This years looks to be even bigger.

 

Where was all this QB movement during the last 20 years when the Bills needed one?

 

Now that we have a Franchise guy they seem to be falling out of trees   

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I really hope the NFL QB position doesn’t turn into an NBA situation where these guys are always looking for a better situation. 

 

I think in this case it's more due to Gruden not being completely happy with him and wants to move on.

[Kwai San]

13 hours ago, dma0034 said:

I don't think it's a huge move but Carr would play perfect in the Patriots system imo.

I don't think it's a huge move but Carr would play perfect in the Patriots system imo.

I don't think it's a huge move but Carr would play perfect in the Patriots system imo.

 

BB won't part with that much draft capitol.....not gonna happen.

[JimmyNoodles]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I agree that the Raiders saw that trade, the other teams that were chasing stafford, and thought this could be a way to create a market for their Qb who they want to replace and obtain the assets to go after the one they really want. I don’t think gruden had ever been happy with carr and doubt he’s there next year, and if he is still there, there will be a rookie drafted pretty high to take his place eventually aka asap. 

just to be clear, is Gruden ever happy with any QB?  

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

If Houston is trading Watson, they are now a QB needy team. Why not just package Carr in the trade rather than get a haul, just to flip it. Carr and a 2 x 1st rounders and call it a day. 

 

 

 

Odds are Carr doesn't fit their timeline. The Texans are likely to want to go with a rookie QB as opposed to a vet with 2 affordable years left on his contract. I think the Texans are more likely interested in a deal that gives them as many draft picks and young players as possible. The Raiders are likely going to have to find a team interested in Carr that can give them draft picks so that they can use those picks to get Watson. 

 

In a world where Stafford draws two first round picks and a third round pick, Carr on a similar contract could at least fetch a 1st and another pick. I don't know if Carr is viewed in the same realm as Stafford around the league so I think it is far more realistic that he gets traded for a 1st and 3rd maybe from a team like the Colts. Which should still help the Raiders get into the Watson conversation. 

[Seventeen]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This could just be me, but I feel as though Gruden is starting to feel a little tingle of warmth in his seat. 

I

 

More than a tingle - 19-29 last 3 years - no playoffs in 2021, he be gone.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Profootball talk also has a piece on this 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/raiders-plotting-trade-derek-carr-005900349.html

 

Carr for Watson.  

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

If Watson is dealt, landing in Las Vegas over the Jets or Fins would certainly be a homerun for us. I'd be surprised if Watson isn't pushing for a team in the NFC though. The Bills and Chiefs look like they are going to be top dogs in the conference for a longtime with their QB's. And then you got guys like Herbert and Jackson who will give teams headaches. And who knows about Lawerence. 

 

Much smoother sailing long-term in the NFC. 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JimmyNoodles said:

just to be clear, is Gruden ever happy with any QB?  

Just Naterman... 😂

[Doc]

Again, a lot of teams will think they're in the running for Watson.  And sorely overvalue their hand.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, JimmyNoodles said:

just to be clear, is Gruden ever happy with any QB?  

No but I don’t think he’s ever had a really stud, 1st round type talent. He gets the best of journeymen types. Carr is fairly good but there’s just something missing there. I think Watson would be a monster in Vegas and I would draft Ruggs in every fantasy league. 
 

 

[eball]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

If Houston is trading Watson

 

They’re not.  Next?

[hjnick]

Should the Cowboys trade Dak?  They could get like 4-5 first rounders for him in this market.

[prissythecat]

11 minutes ago, hjnick said:

Should the Cowboys trade Dak?  They could get like 4-5 first rounders for him in this market.

 

They would need to get him under a long term contract first?

[CaptnCoke11]

52 minutes ago, hjnick said:

Should the Cowboys trade Dak?  They could get like 4-5 first rounders for him in this market.

he’s not under contract in Dallas.  They’d have to do a tag and trade and that won’t happen.  

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

If Watson is dealt, landing in Las Vegas over the Jets or Fins would certainly be a homerun for us. I'd be surprised if Watson isn't pushing for a team in the NFC though. The Bills and Chiefs look like they are going to be top dogs in the conference for a longtime with their QB's. And then you got guys like Herbert and Jackson who will give teams headaches. And who knows about Lawerence. 

 

Much smoother sailing long-term in the NFC. 

 

 

Don’t forget Burrow.  Count in Baker if you’d like.

[Southern_Bills]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

If Watson is dealt, landing in Las Vegas over the Jets or Fins would certainly be a homerun for us. I'd be surprised if Watson isn't pushing for a team in the NFC though. The Bills and Chiefs look like they are going to be top dogs in the conference for a longtime with their QB's. And then you got guys like Herbert and Jackson who will give teams headaches. And who knows about Lawerence. 

 

Much smoother sailing long-term in the NFC. 

 

 

Most competitors like Watson give these things little thought, he believes he can beat anyone, rightfully so.

[Big Blitz]

On 2/2/2021 at 7:38 PM, Warcodered said:

Mahomes, Watson, and Herbert all in the same division....yes please?

 

 

Those 2 being in there is exactly why the Raiders are going to look into this.  And permanently damage Carr's relationship with Gruden in the process.  

 

And it ain't happening.  

 

Will some NFC team get their freaking stuff together and make a pitch for this guy and get him out of his miserable life in Houston.  

 

No way Watson is going to Vegas and playing for Gruden.

 

None. 

 

Zero.

 

Zilch.

[Fan in Chicago]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I have no doubt (and stated so at the time) that Gruden would get rid of Carr as soon as he could.

Not denying that Gruden will try to get rid of him. If not for anything else, it buys him 2 more years of excuses. 

[78thealltimegreat]

4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

he’s not under contract in Dallas.  They’d have to do a tag and trade and that won’t happen.  

I can actually see why the Cowboys won’t budge on Daks demands Dak is good but he’s not worth 40 mill a year everything has to be letter perfect for him to win...putting Josh in Dallas with their receiving corps and running game and the Cowboys are probably in the Super Bowl 

[Fan in Chicago]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This could just be me, but I feel as though Gruden is starting to feel a little tingle of warmth in his seat. 

 

He was brought in to lift the Raiders from "Good to Great", or maybe from "mediocre to great".  They had that 12-4, WC year in 2016 then a fall-off in 2017 under Del Rio.  Gruden was gonna reverse course and lift them back to 12-4 and beyond...except it hasn't gone down that way.

 

What's easier for a star-of-star HC: scrutinize his own actions and scheme for failing to get the most out of his players, or point the finger at his good-but-not-great QB?  Carr was good enough to help the Raiders score 40 freakin' points and defeat the Chiefs, their only "starters" loss of the season.

 

 

Oh I fully agree. Save for that one superbowl season where he basically babysat a superstar roster to the Lombardi, he hasnt had much coaching success. Yet he happened to be revered around the league. After gutting much of the roster and re-building it per his needs, the results are under-whelming. He should have built the team around Carr. But next season will be his year of reckoning. 

[JimmyNoodles]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

No but I don’t think he’s ever had a really stud, 1st round type talent. He gets the best of journeymen types. Carr is fairly good but there’s just something missing there. I think Watson would be a monster in Vegas and I would draft Ruggs in every fantasy league. 
 

 

I agree. However, in my mind the question is, could they win with Carr? The LV offense was good this past year. The defense sucked. Why not try to fix that.  They beat KC once and played them tough the other time. Gruden’s always chasing unicorns. I think it’s his fatal flaw as coach. As a QB how could you ever trust him?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, JimmyNoodles said:

I agree. However, in my mind the question is, could they win with Carr? The LV offense was good this past year. The defense sucked. Why not try to fix that.  They beat KC once and played them tough the other time. Gruden’s always chasing unicorns. I think it’s his fatal flaw as coach. As a QB how could you ever trust him?  

 

Exactly.  Is Carr Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Russ Wilson, Deshaun Watson transcendent? No.    Is he good enough to win with a defense and enough offensive pieces around him?  Yes.

 

Gruden wanting to jettison Carr (for that matter, McVay jettisoning Goff) puts me in mind of Rex Ryan firing Greg Roman.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not denying that Gruden will try to get rid of him. If not for anything else, it buys him 2 more years of excuses. 

 

Not if the guy who replaces him is a downgrade.  And FTR, that guy will not be Watson.