So the Lamar excuses start????

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Its not hard to declare at all.  Either the team believes he can win them a championship or they don't.  If they believe, then they pay him.  If they don't, then perhaps they don't pay him.  I look at him and I don't believe.  Not unless he keeps an amazing team around him which is tough to do after paying him.  Again, I said I would pick up the 5th year option and let it play out.  Then make a decision.

 

But if you don't keep Lamar you have nothing. And the rest of that roster is way to good to lose. Remember the whole reason they want the Lamar route in the first place was because they were never drafting in position to get the more polished prospects. It is a really hard decision....  but hopping off a guy who wins double digit games every season because he can't win in the playoffs to go to nothing is one hell of a risk. I'd be trying to get a deal done where it escalates as it goes. Not a big signing bonus that ties in me in long term but say... $35m per year and the first two years fully guaranteed that means my commitment is just those two years. Maybe he wouldn't sign that. I don't know. I think that contract is a really tough one to work out.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I agree about Roman.  But McD had no qualms jettisoning Dennison after 1 year despite the team making the playoffs.  I'd start there.   The problem is, can they get anyone better?

 

As for play-makers, again they might help him get better, but will it make him get good enough?  And will they be able to determine this before needing to make a decision on a new contract?  Again, I'd hate to be in their shoes.

 

 

Maybe they could get Anthony Lynn.  He ran Romans playbook before and knows the AFC pretty well.  They would be best to stick with Roman if they are going to stick with Lamar though.

[Beast]

Weapons or not, the question I have is why wouldn't the Ravens, in year 3 of a 1st round draft picks career, surround him with "more dynamic weapons"?

 

Unless management realizes what he is and figures what you see is what you are going to get, no matter who surrounds him.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I agree about Roman.  But McD had no qualms jettisoning Dennison after 1 year despite the team making the playoffs.  I'd start there.   The problem is, can they get anyone better?

 

As for play-makers, again they might help him get better, but will it make him get good enough?  And will they be able to determine this before needing to make a decision on a new contract?  Again, I'd hate to be in their shoes.

 

 

 

Disagree totally on Roman. If they try and fit Lamar into a more conventional system it is over IMO. Keep Roman. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But if you don't keep Lamar you have nothing. And the rest of that roster is way to good to lose. Remember the whole reason they want the Lamar route in the first place was because they were never drafting in position to get the more polished prospects. It is a really hard decision....  but hopping off a guy who wins double digit games every season because he can't win in the playoffs to go to nothing is one hell of a risk. I'd be trying to get a deal done where it escalates as it goes. Not a big signing bonus that ties in me in long term but say... $35m per year and the first two years fully guaranteed that means my commitment is just those two years. Maybe he wouldn't sign that. I don't know. I think that contract is a really tough one to work out.

 

I agree with this.  While I wrote it as a simple thing... you are correct.  It's hard  to move on from a guy that helps you win football games when there is no one to go to.  The goal is to win a championship though.  They have to do something.  I don't know if they can get a reasonable contract or not but paying top money to Lamar is not what I would do regardless if I had no one else to go to.  Lamar represents himself I heard so who knows how negotiations would go. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

44 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

do yourself a favor and check the OP and the thread title again. These aren’t “bills fans’” excuses. The discussion is around what the Ravens fans and sympathizers are saying. 
 

or that was the discussion until you derailed it with your tangents.

Who was it who brought Allen into the conversation?  

 

I'm referring to the people in this thread, not the author of the article.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Bermuda Triangle

[Orlando Tim]

Lamar is a unique talent and actually a good passer when he knows where to go but right now he can be confused. If the team has not aided his development in that then shame on them but his cieling appears to be set.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here is the Ringer Article...

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2021/1/17/22235510/baltimore-ravens-go-bust-buffalo-bills

 

Part of it said Lamar needs the weapons Josh has and he'd be "better" & since Allen did it, of course Lamar can too.(paraphrasing)

 

Yep too lazy to look for others, which is why I posted....😜

 

I like Lamar as a person, just think he has had too many accolades.....

 

 

he should give some back?

[Jpsredemption]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Where do they believe the Ravens will find this WR1?

 

They loaded up on one of the best defenses in football.  
 

They drafted a top end RB.  
 

They have spent on OL. 
 

They have a top end TE. 
 

They have to pay Lamar soon. 
 

Can’t afford give the guy everything....

They drafted Hollywood Brown in the first round, he’s no slouch either. 

[djp14150]

My thoughts......

 

Dobbins is a good RB

Andrews is a good TE

Hollywood brown is a decent WR with speed but not a #1.

 

Jackson doesn’t avg 200 yds per game passing but is a running threat.  The fact is it’s only a matter of time before he does get injured. In yesterday’s game he happened to get concussion by just being knocked back as a passer on a sack attempt. It wasn’t a run that did this like it did to Mahomes

 

Im unsure on Jackson’s longevity.  The key is can he develop and be a better passer with the threat to run and use his mobility when needed. This is similar to what Allen has done and what a few other QBs who can run have done like Andrew Luck, and steve Young as well as others.

[Steptide]

I've said it many times and will keep saying it. Running qbs never work. They are good for a short while and that's it. Lamar hit his ceiling last year. Unless he does something drastic like learn to become a pocket passer (kinda like what Allen did with palmer) the Ravens will continue to get worse. I could see them being a 7 win team next year. Running qbs always get figured out. 

[Rocket94]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

It’s reputation. Everybody jumped on the Lamar bandwagon after his MVP season and are refusing to jump off...yet. Just like some don’t really want to give Josh credit for being a great quarterback...yet.

I know and it is bs! I read a remarkable article yesterday featuring Bill Polian and his take on Allen's progress. That is all we need to know. If someone cannot see that Allen has clearly arrived then they are blind. The scary thing is that he will get even better!

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Maybe they could get Anthony Lynn.  He ran Romans playbook before and knows the AFC pretty well.  They would be best to stick with Roman if they are going to stick with Lamar though.

 

I suppose.

 

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Weapons or not, the question I have is why wouldn't the Ravens, in year 3 of a 1st round draft picks career, surround him with "more dynamic weapons"?

 

Unless management realizes what he is and figures what you see is what you are going to get, no matter who surrounds him.

 

They've been more interested in making the defense stronger, trading for Campbell and Ngakoue.  Figuring strong defense limits opponent scoring and allows them to use run game mainly.

 

4 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

They drafted Hollywood Brown in the first round, he’s no slouch either. 

 

Don't sell him short.  He's a tremendous slouch. 

 

Just kidding.  Although taking a 5'9" 170# WR in the 1st...

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I've said it many times and will keep saying it. Running qbs never work. They are good for a short while and that's it. Lamar hit his ceiling last year. Unless he does something drastic like learn to become a pocket passer (kinda like what Allen did with palmer) the Ravens will continue to get worse. I could see them being a 7 win team next year. Running qbs always get figured out. 

Yes! we continue to see this trend with new prototypes stepping up with the same result. The Bills completely unmasked Jackson yesterday.

[djp14150]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I've said it many times and will keep saying it. Running qbs never work. They are good for a short while and that's it. Lamar hit his ceiling last year. Unless he does something drastic like learn to become a pocket passer (kinda like what Allen did with palmer) the Ravens will continue to get worse. I could see them being a 7 win team next year. Running qbs always get figured out. 

in this league if you have a strong running team and a very good defense you can do well with an a non top 5 QB.

 

it’s still beneficial if the QB can run to avoid sacks and extend plays as well as being a potential running threat to keep a defense honest

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with this.  While I wrote it as a simple thing... you are correct.  It's hard  to move on from a guy that helps you win football games when there is no one to go to.  The goal is to win a championship though.  They have to do something.  I don't know if they can get a reasonable contract or not but paying top money to Lamar is not what I would do regardless if I had no one else to go to.  Lamar represents himself I heard so who knows how negotiations would go. 

The goal is to sell tickets. Winning games & contending every year does that. Championships are gravy. 

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

Don't sell him short.  He's a tremendous slouch. 

 

Just kidding.  Although taking a 5'9" 170# WR in the 1st...

Ha ha love it. Great Ty Webb quote

[Doc]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Ha ha love it. Great Ty Webb quote

 

I didn't know that. I lifted it from Caddy Shack.  Thanks for the info.

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

i see that you did and i appreciate it. 
 

to your topic - if one of the excuses about Jackson is the lack of weapons argument, well literally hundreds of posters right here were making the exact same excuse for Allen 2 years ago

Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, and Andre Holmes weren't exactly striking fear into the opposition

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I didn't know that. I lifted it from Caddy Shack.  Thanks for the info.

Yes, Ty was Chevy Chase’s character in the movie. Should have said Caddyshack reference lol 

[MrSarcasm]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Lamar is a unique talent and actually a good passer when he knows where to go but right now he can be confused. If the team has not aided his development in that then shame on them but his cieling appears to be set.

To be fair, it's kind of hard for him to develop and read defenses when they are so unconventional and run the ball all the time.

 

Honestly, its a spinning  merry-go-round situation. You either stay with the current system and just try to throw enough wrinkles in or you have to gut the whole system again.

[97bills]

21 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I've said it many times and will keep saying it. Running qbs never work. They are good for a short while and that's it. Lamar hit his ceiling last year. Unless he does something drastic like learn to become a pocket passer (kinda like what Allen did with palmer) the Ravens will continue to get worse. I could see them being a 7 win team next year. Running qbs always get figured out. 

And not just that you no how hard it is every week to out power you opponent playing power football and as I’ve seen running QB only last 5 to 6 years so hard to keep that kind of offense going for 8 to 10 years I think they had there chance last year 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yes, Ty was Chevy Chase’s character in the movie. Should have said Caddyshack reference lol 

 

LOL!  I read it as Ty Cobb. 🤦‍♂️

[BigDingus]

4 hours ago, benderbender said:

But I heard nothing but MVP talk during the broadcast for 3 quarters. 🧐

 

Tbf, I heard more Josh Allen MVP discussion during the broadcast than Jackson.

Anything related to MVP + Jackson was in regards to him being the reigning MVP.

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

 

Tbf, I heard more Josh Allen MVP discussion during the broadcast than Jackson.

Anything related to MVP + Jackson was in regards to him being the reigning MVP.

right? Jackson was referred to as MVP because he IS MVP. Until the next one is awarded. Holy god I can’t believe posters here can miss something like that. “Football fans”

[bobobonators]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just read a Ringer article with the same excuses.....  Imagine Allen throwing a 101 yard pick 6?

 

Any articles or people questioning Lamar after yesterday?

 

He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse.  

 

As I said elsewhere "How do you know, when you throw so little and very few are actual traditional plays as most are a result of Lamar's athleticism and many busted plays"?

 

And what receiver would sign to play with Lamar and this offense? 

He didnt play a great game. My question is:  

 

1.  What is the fixation of some people to feel the need to put this kid down?

Multiple threads have to be dedicated in the pursuit of this endeavor? Did he personally offend Bills players that we somehow continue to feel the need to say “hes not that good”? Is it bc he was drafted in the same class as Josh Allen so we need to measure up?

 

He is 24yrs old and has broken numerous statistical records, to include winning an MVP award. Let the dude live. They didnt go 4-12 this yr. He lost in the divisional round of the playoffs at 24 and led his team to an 11-5 record.  He clearly doesnt suck. He clearly is not average either. 
 

The hate for this guy is tiring. The media talks a lot about him bc he just won the MVP award and hes 24. Theyll move on to endlessly hype up this year’s MVP. Thats how it goes. 

If anything we should be able to relate to this guy’s struggles:  experts were saying he would never be an NFL QB and should switch to WR. Experts were saying Allen would never be successful. Theyre both good stories. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by bobobonators

[blacklabel]

I've been saying it since day one, Greg Roman might be known as a run game guru but his passing concepts are not that difficult to defend. He showed this issue in San Fran with Kaepernick, in Buffalo with Tyrod and it'll eventually happen in Baltimore. 

 

But, poor passing scheme or not, the Bills had him contained and flustered all night so I think his performance has a lot more to do with that than it does much else. 

[Protocal69]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just read a Ringer article with the same excuses.....  Imagine Allen throwing a 101 yard pick 6?

 

Any articles or people questioning Lamar after yesterday?

 

He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse.  

 

As I said elsewhere "How do you know, when you throw so little and very few are actual traditional plays as most are a result of Lamar's athleticism and many busted plays"?

 

And what receiver would sign to play with Lamar and this offense? 

That is my argument on twitter and youtube. What #1 receiver would want to play with Lamar and the Ravens. Remember  Hollywood Brown had to beg for the ball earlier this year

[Beerball]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just read a Ringer article with the same excuses.....  Imagine Allen throwing a 101 yard pick 6?

 

Any articles or people questioning Lamar after yesterday?

 

He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse.  

 

As I said elsewhere "How do you know, when you throw so little and very few are actual traditional plays as most are a result of Lamar's athleticism and many busted plays"?

 

And what receiver would sign to play with Lamar and this offense? 

Josh Allen once needed better receivers.  It wasn't a tired excuse then, was it?

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just read a Ringer article with the same excuses.....  Imagine Allen throwing a 101 yard pick 6?

 

Any articles or people questioning Lamar after yesterday?

 

He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse.  

 

As I said elsewhere "How do you know, when you throw so little and very few are actual traditional plays as most are a result of Lamar's athleticism and many busted plays"?

 

And what receiver would sign to play with Lamar and this offense? 

I would agree it’s hard to know whether Lamar is capable of running more traditional dropback passing plays.  
 

Honestly, I think part of the problem is Greg Roman’s run heavy offense.  We’ve seen the story play out in San Francisco, Buffalo, and now Baltimore.  Initially the mobile QB takes the league by storm and the offense has a lot of success but once a defense catches up and stops the run, the passing game isn’t developed enough to win games.  
 

Lamar is an explosive runner and shown flashes as a passer but he really hasn’t evolved from the QB he was last year and IMO that’s what held the Ravens back.  

[RunTheBall]

The Ravens made the strategic decision to take what Lamar did well, which is run the ball and make out of structure throws, and design their offense around it.

 

The Bills took the opposite track with Allen. He also came out good at running the ball and making those out of structure throws, but they made the strategic decision to design an offense that forced Allen to learn to be a pocket passer and were willing to take their lumps for 2 years while he learned the ropes. We are seeing the benefits now with Allen in that he can read defenses, make all the throws, and still has the ability to run or make out of structure throws.

 

If Lamar is going to have a long career, I think the Ravens at some point are going to have to change their offense and take their lumps while Lamar learns to become more of a pocket passer. I don’t think they are going to do this. I think they are going to continue to ride with him being an unconventional QB and maybe bring in an OC who will try and mix in a few more passing concepts. Whether they can go far in the playoffs with this type of O is the big question.

[djp14150]

17 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

The Ravens made the strategic decision to take what Lamar did well, which is run the ball and make out of structure throws, and design their offense around it.

 

The Bills took the opposite track with Allen. He also came out good at running the ball and making those out of structure throws, but they made the strategic decision to design an offense that forced Allen to learn to be a pocket passer and were willing to take their lumps for 2 years while he learned the ropes. We are seeing the benefits now with Allen in that he can read defenses, make all the throws, and still has the ability to run or make out of structure throws.

 

If Lamar is going to have a long career, I think the Ravens at some point are going to have to change their offense and take their lumps while Lamar learns to become more of a pocket passer. I don’t think they are going to do this. I think they are going to continue to ride with him being an unconventional QB and maybe bring in an OC who will try and mix in a few more passing concepts. Whether they can go far in the playoffs with this type of O is the big question.

 

no...you don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

 

you tailor an offense around the qb strengths.  It takes time to understand pro defense and learn on the differences between college and pro.  
 

Allen had some innate abilities that could be modified.

[Tcali]

6 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just read a Ringer article with the same excuses.....  Imagine Allen throwing a 101 yard pick 6?

 

Any articles or people questioning Lamar after yesterday?

 

He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse.  

 

As I said elsewhere "How do you know, when you throw so little and very few are actual traditional plays as most are a result of Lamar's athleticism and many busted plays"?

 

And what receiver would sign to play with Lamar and this offense? 

i think finding a more accurate snapper is a legitimate excuse

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

He didnt play a great game. My question is:  

 

1.  What is the fixation of some people to feel the need to put this kid down?

Multiple threads have to be dedicated in the pursuit of this endeavor? Did he personally offend Bills players that we somehow continue to feel the need to say “hes not that good”? Is it bc he was drafted in the same class as Josh Allen so we need to measure up?

 

He is 24yrs old and has broken numerous statistical records, to include winning an MVP award. Let the dude live. They didnt go 4-12 this yr. He lost in the divisional round of the playoffs at 24 and led his team to an 11-5 record.  He clearly doesnt suck. He clearly is not average either. 
 

The hate for this guy is tiring. The media talks a lot about him bc he just won the MVP award and hes 24. Theyll move on to endlessly hype up this year’s MVP. Thats how it goes. 

If anything we should be able to relate to this guy’s struggles:  experts were saying he would never be an NFL QB and should switch to WR. Experts were saying Allen would never be successful. Theyre both good stories. 

Some Bills fans need to trash every other young QB in the league because they are Allen's competition.

 

"Baker sucks, Watson sucks, LJ sucks, and Mahomes is overrated" are commonplace TBD takes.

[PrimeTime101]

There is a biiiiig topic on Lamar in where I posted.

 

"Josh Allen was in the same boat as Lamar is now. Not enough WR or OL Talent."

"If you put Lamar behind our line with our WR's how does Lamar do?"

 

This book isn't written yet. 

 

I still stand by that.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

33 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Some Bills fans need to trash every other young QB in the league because they are Allen's competition.

 

"Baker sucks, Watson sucks, LJ sucks, and Mahomes is overrated" are commonplace TBD takes.

Coming from the same guy who said Allen should be traded and Jake Fromm is the next Tom Brady

[Success]

The Bills coaches came up w/ a GREAT gameplan to stop Jackson.  And had he not thrown that pick 6, the game is touch & go until the end.

 

Yeah, he threw the pick 6 - but it's way too hot takey to write him off.  He is one of the league's most exciting players, and we'll have to grapple w/ him for years to come.

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Coming from the same guy who said Allen should be traded and Jake Fromm is the next Tom Brady

Is it tough not being able discern jokes?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Is it tough not being able discern jokes?

Not a joke, you said it multiple times.

[FireChans]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Not a joke, you said it multiple times.

I said it to someone I was actively ribbing on.

 

It must be REALLY hard.