Completely incensed by the officiating yesterday

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Not sure if this deserves it's own thread, but the bad calls in the game yesterday have been eating away at me all day. 

 

The final stat line doesn't look that uneven, but watching the game I felt the refs gave the Cardinals a handful of borderline calls/no calls that helped change the outcome of the game. 

 

 The Cardinals had 7 penalties for 40 yards and the Bills had 9 penalties for 69 yards. 5 of the Cardinals 7 penalties were pre-snap violations, and the remaining were for an illegal hands to the face (don't know if we got a replay of that) and an offensive holding (Murphy got mugged plain as day). 

 

Critical penalties that were not called: 

On Murray's 2nd TD run there is a pretty clear offensive holding, as well as a blatant block in the back.

Josh Allen scrambling to the right, throws it away, and is hit a good 2 seconds after releasing the ball. I understand that defenders get more lee way against mobile QBs, but that hit was not remotely close to being legal.  

 

Critical penalties that were called, but shouldn't have been:

Unnecessary roughness by Singletary. Singletary gave the defender a slight nudge <1 second after the ball fell incomplete. I don't think there was enough there to warrant a 15 yard penalty. To add insult to injury the refs ruled it a dead ball foul, so the Bills lost the down as well. 

Holding by Winters (the play where Brown made a heroic catch, and the play directly after the bad call on Singletary). This would've been a ticky-tack call by 2019 standards. It's absolutely atrocious to make that call in 2020 when the league is only calling offensive holding if it's clear and obvious. 

DPI by Worley. There was a tiny bit of contact, but not nearly enough to warrant a call (the refs had been letting a lot of contact go by both teams the entire game). Cardinals should've been facing a 3rd and 6 from the 24 yard line, instead they got a 1st down at the 15. 

Block in the back by Knox. This penalty had his own thread, and I'll add that the call on Knox was ticky-tack. It's nonsense to me that the defense actually benefited by committing a penalty. Had the Cardinals not jumped offside, the Bills still would've gained ~10 yards on the play as Knox's penalty would've been a spot foul that occurred well down field. 

Holding by Neal on a punt return. We never got a replay, although CBS did show Neal was quite upset by the call on the sideline. 

 

TLDR:

The Cardinals scored on a play while committing blatant penalties. 

Bad calls/no calls killed 2 Bills drives in the 2nd half (the Singletary/Winters calls, and the non-call roughing the passer). 

BOTH of Josh Allen's interceptions came immediately after borderline calls (Knox and Neal). Maybe he wouldn't have tried forcing those throws if the refs had not made bad calls on the previous plays? 

 

Maybe with balanced officiating this game isn't close enough to be determined by last second Murray/Hopkins heroics? 

 

[Mr. WEO]

This all happened yesterday dude.  How "incensed" can you really be?

 

Kudos on the "kill the umps" angle though.  Fresh...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Honestly as much as I laughed at this notion in years past I feel like we should be good enough to beat the cardinals and the refs at this point 🤣

[ALLEN1QB]

I agree 100%

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I’m certain every teams fan base thinks the refs are out to screw them .... they conveniently forget the times where they benefit from a call. It’s just a tiresome argument week after week 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

24 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Not sure if this deserves it's own thread, but the bad calls in the game yesterday have been eating away at me all day. 

 

The final stat line doesn't look that uneven, but watching the game I felt the refs gave the Cardinals a handful of borderline calls/no calls that helped change the outcome of the game. 

 

 The Cardinals had 7 penalties for 40 yards and the Bills had 9 penalties for 69 yards. 5 of the Cardinals 7 penalties were pre-snap violations, and the remaining were for an illegal hands to the face (don't know if we got a replay of that) and an offensive holding (Murphy got mugged plain as day). 

 

Critical penalties that were not called: 

On Murray's 2nd TD run there is a pretty clear offensive holding, as well as a blatant block in the back.

Josh Allen scrambling to the right, throws it away, and is hit a good 2 seconds after releasing the ball. I understand that defenders get more lee way against mobile QBs, but that hit was not remotely close to being legal.  

 

Critical penalties that were called, but shouldn't have been:

Unnecessary roughness by Singletary. Singletary gave the defender a slight nudge <1 second after the ball fell incomplete. I don't think there was enough there to warrant a 15 yard penalty. To add insult to injury the refs ruled it a dead ball foul, so the Bills lost the down as well. 

Holding by Winters (the play where Brown made a heroic catch, and the play directly after the bad call on Singletary). This would've been a ticky-tack call by 2019 standards. It's absolutely atrocious to make that call in 2020 when the league is only calling offensive holding if it's clear and obvious. 

DPI by Worley. There was a tiny bit of contact, but not nearly enough to warrant a call (the refs had been letting a lot of contact go by both teams the entire game). Cardinals should've been facing a 3rd and 6 from the 24 yard line, instead they got a 1st down at the 15. 

Block in the back by Knox. This penalty had his own thread, and I'll add that the call on Knox was ticky-tack. It's nonsense to me that the defense actually benefited by committing a penalty. Had the Cardinals not jumped offside, the Bills still would've gained ~10 yards on the play as Knox's penalty would've been a spot foul that occurred well down field. 

Holding by Neal on a punt return. We never got a replay, although CBS did show Neal was quite upset by the call on the sideline. 

 

TLDR:

The Cardinals scored on a play while committing blatant penalties. 

Bad calls/no calls killed 2 Bills drives in the 2nd half (the Singletary/Winters calls, and the non-call roughing the passer). 

BOTH of Josh Allen's interceptions came immediately after borderline calls (Knox and Neal). Maybe he wouldn't have tried forcing those throws if the refs had not made bad calls on the previous plays? 

 

Maybe with balanced officiating this game isn't close enough to be determined by last second Murray/Hopkins heroics? 

 

I agree. I can take the ticky tack stuff if it is called evenly on both sides. But they call

a Knox block in the back penalty when the play is over. But they don’t call like 5 of those on the Cards throughout the game. For example, go Back and look at the long Kirk punt return, there were two obvious blocks in the black (like guys flying through the air) right near the point of attack and right in front of the officials’ faces. No calls. 
 

The officiating needs to at least be internally consistent through a game or else the players can’t adjust and play, and otherwise it leads to gross disparities. These guys had no clue. They were calling ticky tacks, then not calling ticky tacks. Not calling major penalties. Calling unnecessary roughness, not calling it. (I mean, on one play, Andre was just standing out of bounds for a full second after a KO return and was tackled— no late hit?? Josh— no late hit? But Singletary gets an after the play unnecessary roughness call for a questionable blindside block).  

[KCNC]

Also on one of Roberts returns he was completely out of bounds and some guy whacked him.  No flag of course.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

This all happened yesterday dude.  How "incensed" can you really be?

 

Kudos on the "kill the umps" angle though.  Fresh...

 

That's why I waited a day... I didn't want to have an overly emotional reaction to the game. I've been stewing on it since and haven't changed my mind. 

 

I realize that bad calls and no calls happen in every game, but I think it's worth bringing up when there were 5 bad calls against the Bills and zero for the Cardinals. Not to mention 2 critical no-calls that favored the Cardinals. That's more than enough to change the outcome of a game. 

 

This was easily the most lop-sided game by the officials all year. The INT call during the Rams game was the worst individually called play, but that game ended up fairly even (including a borderline call to get the Bills the last second TD). 

 

I don't think I'm being a homer here, but wanted to post to see if people agreed with me or not. 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

10 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I’m certain every teams fan base thinks the refs are out to screw them .... they conveniently forget the times where they benefit from a call. It’s just a tiresome argument week after week 

This... The issue is the inconsistency, not bias. 

[GoBills808]

It wasn't great, the holding call on Winters was pretty brutal

[msw2112]

I'm not putting forth any objective data here...I watched the game yesterday as I have watched every Bills game for years.  Although with many games, I come out saying that "we really got screwed by the refs," I didn't come out of yesterday's game with that feeling.  Sure, there was a bad call here or there, but overall, I don't think bad officiating had a significant impact on the outcome of the game.  The could have overturned the interception when Fitzgerald last the ball going to the ground and didn't (which I think was correct, but it was close).  The Bills seem to be on the wrong side of many of these.  There may have been a PI which could have gone either way and disfavored the Bills, but nothing egregious.

[Paulus]

There are always two opponents; the other team and the officials. You need to beat both. 

[jethro_tull]

I agree completely.  The refs were way too involved in the game which is a bad change of pace.  

I would have really lost it if the interception call would have been reversed.  

[BADOLBILZ]

 

My advice is let go of blaming officiating for ANYTHING.

 

I did that after HR Throwback and it's never bothered me since.

 

Try to remember that it's a violent, unkind, war game and the real objective is to dominate the opponent.

 

Too many times teams coach and play themselves into close games.........mostly by varying their style and effort to the scoreboard.

 

If you really dominate a team the officiating will not matter..........if the score is left close.........you leave your fortune in the hands of fate/chance.

 

The Bills played themselves into a close game...........your contention that they should have dominated the scoreboard if not for the officiating neglects their own myriad of mistakes, IMO.

[shane nelson]

While completely incensed is a bit of an overkill, I must say, yesterday's officiating was the worse I have seen all season.  The call on Knox was terrible and I think really changed the outcome of the game.  Singletary's penalty was pure BS.

 

I never blame the refs when we loss, even after the Houston playoff loss.  Only the losers blame the ref and good teams don't let the refs control the outcome.  That said, yesterday's strip performance was a D-  

 

Go Bills

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

This... The issue is the inconsistency, not bias. 

 

I think this is what everyone is complaining about. 

 

The result of inconsistent officiating, however, is that it can have the effect of disparately impacting one team over the other, given how inconsistent and random the calls/no-calls are. 

[machine gun kelly]

The refs didn’t lose the game. One play on a Hail Mary didn’t lose the game.  We lost the game.  I’m over it as been over 24 hours so moving on.

[John from Riverside]

Not saying your wrong but we gotta overcome it

[LabattBlue]

TSW guarantee...Bills lose, “refs are to blame” threads pop up. 
 

[Matt_In_NH]

There was holding that wasn't called??????  No way!!!!!!!

 

Was there at least one call or lack of a call on the Cardinals side that benefited the Bills or all 25 of the bad calls/non calls go against the Bills?  That is an outrage!

 

[wvbillsfan]

I only have a problem with what we can control. Presnap penalties especially lining up wrong or not getting set rear their ugly head every game. 
Our wrs would be in the bench if the didn’t show some kind of hustle in getting get. Diggs drives me to the point of insanity with his presnap loafing. 
And the dang coaches continue to allow it. Lining up should be the easiest part of football. 
 

There I found a thread to get that off my chest. Now I feel better 

[BullBuchanan]

I didn't even notice the officiating at all. They mostly stayed out of the game, and that's fine by me.

[Pbomb]

Seems like this happens almost every week. The bills seem to be in charge then the momentum starts to change in the third quarter where the calls always seem to go against us 

[Bagwell358]

I felt the same way. Officials inserted themself into the game when it got close and it was slanted to favor the cardinals. 
The Knox penalty was ridiculous. The defender is lunging to the ground as Knox goes to block him. Gets up and whines to the official and gets the flag.
 

The singletary penalty interpreted as after 

the play was ridiculous. It was a block attempt when he felt his QB was running. The winters hold was more bull####. That’s how every offensive lineman blocks on every play. 
 

Hail Mary still stings but we are always having to overcome some degree of officiating.

[die hard bills fan]

There was another missed call when Josh got slapped in the head after he clearly had finished his throwing motion. Not sure when it was but it was seen on replay (camera angle straight on Josh's  face)  and of course, the announcers made no comment.

[Nitro]

I watch the NFL ticket.  There is bad officiating all over the league.

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, shane nelson said:

While completely incensed is a bit of an overkill, I must say, yesterday's officiating was the worse I have seen all season.  The call on Knox was terrible and I think really changed the outcome of the game.  Singletary's penalty was pure BS.

 

I never blame the refs when we loss, even after the Houston playoff loss.  Only the losers blame the ref and good teams don't let the refs control the outcome.  That said, yesterday's strip performance was a D-  

 

Go Bills

Yes, the call on Singletary was bogus as the Cardinal player took a dive.  As Ian Eagle said, Singletary is 5-9 and around 200# while the Cardinal weighs over 300.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

9 hours ago, Back the Blue said:

TSW guarantee...Bills lose, “refs are to blame” threads pop up. 
 

These threads pop up when we’re winning as well. The refs league wide have been terrible for a while and they seem to be getting worse by the year. They’re controlling games and deciding outcomes. There’s been two INT calls this year that should be investigated by the FBI

7 hours ago, die hard bills fan said:

There was another missed call when Josh got slapped in the head after he clearly had finished his throwing motion. Not sure when it was but it was seen on replay (camera angle straight on Josh's  face)  and of course, the announcers made no comment.

Josh gets hit in the head multiple times each game with no call. He went from getting the call almost all the time to not at all. There’s no consistency in how they call games and player safety is a complete joke. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

10 hours ago, shane nelson said:

While completely incensed is a bit of an overkill, I must say, yesterday's officiating was the worse I have seen all season.  The call on Knox was terrible and I think really changed the outcome of the game.  Singletary's penalty was pure BS.

 

I never blame the refs when we loss, even after the Houston playoff loss.  Only the losers blame the ref and good teams don't let the refs control the outcome.  That said, yesterday's strip performance was a D-  

 

Go Bills

This is stupid. How do you stop someone from making completely wrong decisions? They allow one team to blatantly hold and block in the back their way to a score and penalize another ending their drive for the same thing. What are we supposed to do say we’re not allowing you to throw that flag we’re gonna keep the ball here and it’s a first down? 

 

The only losers blame the refs is idiotic as well. If they did a poor job and clearly helped the other team by allowing them to break the rules and score points they deserve blame. 
 

Stop being ok with people being terrible at their jobs and hold them accountable. 
 

 

[Billsfan1972]

11 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

I felt the same way. Officials inserted themself into the game when it got close and it was slanted to favor the cardinals. 
The Knox penalty was ridiculous. The defender is lunging to the ground as Knox goes to block him. Gets up and whines to the official and gets the flag.
 

The singletary penalty interpreted as after 

the play was ridiculous. It was a block attempt when he felt his QB was running. The winters hold was more bull####. That’s how every offensive lineman blocks on every play. 
 

Hail Mary still stings but we are always having to overcome some degree of officiating.

Arizona is one of the most penalized teams in the NFL & Sunday they had only 5 yard penalties against them.

 

I notice penalties that affect the outcome of games & Sunday there were the two above that had no affect on the play & were ticky tack @ best & cost the Bills big yards and crucial plays (21 yards into Cards territory on one, int the next play) & then a big third down conversion @ midfield that cost them 33 yards & a punt.  

 

I remember an earlier game where Hughes is dragged down on a third & long as he had a direct line on the QB that the opponent converted, but there was no problem as the flag was thrown.  Those are plays that directly affect the game.  The Knox & Winters I saw nothing & had no affects on either play.

 

The Murray TD's were both on first down, even with a penalty they have 3 chances to score, so I am not going to get upset over them.  

 

The PI yep ticky tack but happens (of course the Bills didn't get a call Sunday), and yes need to protect Allen more (as they do other QB's).

  

Edited November 17, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Boxcar]

11 hours ago, mattynh said:

There was holding that wasn't called??????  No way!!!!!!!

 

Was there at least one call or lack of a call on the Cardinals side that benefited the Bills or all 25 of the bad calls/non calls go against the Bills?  That is an outrage!

 

Are people not allowed to voice opinions these days?

[All_Pro_Bills]

10 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

I felt the same way. Officials inserted themself into the game when it got close and it was slanted to favor the cardinals. 
The Knox penalty was ridiculous. The defender is lunging to the ground as Knox goes to block him. Gets up and whines to the official and gets the flag.
 

The singletary penalty interpreted as after 

the play was ridiculous. It was a block attempt when he felt his QB was running. The winters hold was more bull####. That’s how every offensive lineman blocks on every play. 
 

Hail Mary still stings but we are always having to overcome some degree of officiating.

A problem on the Knox penalty was he clearly extended his arms into the defender.  But a bigger problem is he's getting a rep for holding and illegal blocks.  And given this the officials are more likely to make calls against him.  I wouldn't be surprised if the ref's pre-game huddle they say watch this guy for holding.  I think Knox has a target on his back.

 

Another call I thought was completely wrong was the PI call on Worley with :13 left in Q3.  If that's PI I don't know how DB's are supposed to cover receivers.

 

My argument with the Singletary call was more about how they called it "after the play".  After the play is after the whistle.  it didn't blow and the play was still on.  So even if the call was legit, which is something I don't agree with, the Bills should have gotten the down back.  Not lost the down and got a 15 yard mark off. 

 

All complaints about the refs considered the Bills lost the game because they were sleepwalking again thru the 3rd quarter and couldn't make the kill shot when they had the Cards down.   

[SoCal Deek]

The non-call that got me was on the deep route to Brown where the CB stepped on the back of his foot taking his shoe off. While not intentional, THAT is definitely pass interference and Josh couldn’t believe it.

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The non-call that got me was on the deep route to Brown where the CB stepped on the back of his foot taking his shoe off. While not intentional, THAT is definitely pass interference and Josh couldn’t believe it.

Saw that and obviously no replay.  Again if I remember it was a 3rd down too, so no chance to amend for it.

 

Again PI's can be missed......  The issue I had was the big plays nullified on ticky tack fouls at best.

[P Riv]

Penalties in general are down this year, have to wonder how many are influenced by loud crown reactions.  

Still, Its notable that NE, Houston and Miami are 3 out of the top 4 least penalized teams this season.  There's something to the way Belichick coaches disciplined play.  In close games, that equates to an edge.

[Billsfan1972]

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The non-call that got me was on the deep route to Brown where the CB stepped on the back of his foot taking his shoe off. While not intentional, THAT is definitely pass interference and Josh couldn’t believe it.

 No wonder.  The Cards are the most penalized team in the NFL (and hads their best game Sunday).  However not one DPI.

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html

 

And you wonder why people hate Greg Williams (look at RP).

[Ramza86]

I like blaming the refs as much as the next guy...but I really didnt feel like this was one of those games. 

[nucci]

officiating is horrible in every game. NFL also needs some adjustments to the rule book

Edited November 17, 2020 by nucci

[BillsFanSD]

11 hours ago, Nitro said:

I watch the NFL ticket.  There is bad officiating all over the league.

Yep.  This sort of thread is just further evidence for the theory that a lot of folks in our little community don't watch much football outside of Bills games.  

 

We also benefited from a couple of ticky-tack calls against Arizona, but of course everybody forgets about those.

[TigerJ]

The officiating was inconsistent at best.  I'll leave it at that.