Are the Bills a very good team??? This is where the issue is

[Mango]

37 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

6-2 record masks a more middle of the pack team.

 

offense points per game have dropped from 30 in games 1-4 to 19 in games 5-8.

 

I guess it comes down to...and forget the record...

 

Do they look to be...

 

Improving...Middling...Regressing?

 

Offense - Regressing

Defense - Middling

Special Teams - Middling

 

Personally ranking them in AFC I would say...6th.

 

This is my issue at the moment. I get that teams are adjusting but we have too much firepower on the offensive side of the ball to be back to putting up last years average weeks in a row. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, teef said:

it's very iffy.  a minimum we've seen what the offense can do.  i have a feeling this defense will be our issue all year, but this offense, especially if the run game can it going, could return to form...could.  there's a ton of season left.  doesn't it feel like opening day was forever ago?

Agree. 

 

It just hasn't looked as easy since the Raiders game. 

 

Right now it's been hard to get the ball down the field. Diggs' average has come down, Gabe Davis gets an isolated TD shot once a game, the Bills are still getting nothing from the Tight End position, and now it looks Moss is coming on and so he starts commanding more touches. 

 

To get it cranked back up, they're going to need John Brown to get deep again, and start running Diggs underneath. 

 

I think Beane should look for a Tight End, we can't keep waiting for Dawson Knox to become reliable. 

 

And get a linebacker please. Drafted one in 2019 and he's gone, drafted none in 2020 and that lack of depth shows. AJ Klein has not worked. 

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is my issue at the moment. I get that teams are adjusting but we have too much firepower on the offensive side of the ball to be back to putting up last years average weeks in a row. 

Well look at the Chargers. 

 

They have a great possession WR in Keenan Allen, a sporadic #2 jumpball WR in Williams, an okay Tight End in Henry, and then guys filling in for Ekeler.

 

With a rookie QB, they're putting up 27 a game. 

 

So, I'm with you, the Bills have enough to start getting back over that 25 point per game mark. 

[McBean]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I think they are a very good team.  That is what I saw from the offense weeks 1-4.  I expected improvement on the D.

 

This is exactly why I (and others) post what I do, because I think this is the Bills year to go 11-5 (or 12-4).

 

But maybe I'm not right & this is an average team playing above their heads and the coaching staff doing a great job and maximizing their potential.  

 

Seems anytime people post expecting more, they are drowned out by 6-2 and that they've met or exceeded expectations.

 

BTW I'd much rather be right about them being a very good teram, then coaching being responsible for taking an again average to below average team to a better record then their personal befits. 

 

 

You got it wrong with the coaching staff is doing a great job part.

 

Coaching staff is doing a horrid job. From letting AJ Klein trot out on the field every Sunday, to conservative piss poor game day decisions by McClappy, the list goes on.

[P Riv]

I would not say we are a "very good" team.  When you look at scoring defense, pts allowed, net points, etc. it says we shouldn't be .500

Realistically, we should win the division, be favored to win at home in the 1st round and after that, we'll get beat by a better team or crushed by a legitimate SB contender like KC.  

We're not elite or knocking on the door, lets keep it real.  If we win a playoff game, get some solid new talent on Defense in the off-season, maybe with fans in the stadium we get a legit homefield advantage?  Maybe we get there next year, but not this year.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I think they are a very good team.  That is what I saw from the offense weeks 1-4.  I expected improvement on the D.

 

This is exactly why I (and others) post what I do, because I think this is the Bills year to go 11-5 (or 12-4).

 

But maybe I'm not right & this is an average team playing above their heads and the coaching staff doing a great job and maximizing their potential.  

 

Seems anytime people post expecting more, they are drowned out by 6-2 and that they've met or exceeded expectations.

 

BTW I'd much rather be right about them being a very good teram, then coaching being responsible for taking an again average to below average team to a better record then their personal befits.

 

On the philosophy "you are what your record says you are":  We're #3 in the conference and #4 in the league, with 2 of the teams ahead of us on win % having played 1 less game.

 

That makes the Bills a very good, but not elite, team at this point. 

 

The defense is concerning, because I'm not sure, realistically, how it can be addressed during the season.  We seem to have huge gaps at DL and LB.

The one-dimensionality of the offense was concerning but that seems on the road to being addressed.

 

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yup.  I was going to call each of them out but decided to not get banned.  
 

its as if COVID brought these virus-like posters with it.  Maybe they were created in China.  It feels like when BBMB was shut down and we were infested with the worst of the worst from bbmb.  Luckily, most didn’t last long and the ones that stuck around turned out to be valuable members.  Hopefully something is done soon or I’ll be getting banned for life.  They don’t bring anything positive to the community. Literally, nothing

Should I name the "Pom Pom" Brigade,  going on about 6-2 and that McD is getting everything he can out of this group (yes hyperbole & sarcasm).

 

Again I think this is a very good team who has regressed on Offense and the Defense no where near what people thought they were. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, McBean said:

You got it wrong with the coaching staff is doing a great job part.

Coaching staff is doing a horrid job. From letting AJ Klein trot out on the field every Sunday, to conservative piss poor game day decisions by McClappy, the list goes on.

 

We can only play the healthy players we have.  Who are the coaches supposed to play ahead of AJ Klein?

[CaptnCoke11]

This team looks very average right now.  This Sunday will expose it again 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

So this is a forum rule, homer posts only?

 

When the Bills win a SuperBowl I will bring some positivity, I promise.

 

And saying Allen is a keeper is not positive?

Bringing something positive doesn’t mean making positive posts.  You won’t get it.  No use trying to explain. 

[jrober38]

The Bills are okay, but I think we're a ways off competing with teams in the AFC like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Baltimore and Tennessee. 

 

We'll win the division and probably win 10 or 11 games in the regular season, but I still don't see this team doing anything in the playoffs because the top AFC teams are much better than us.

[CountDorkula]

33 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Having to win close games, the horror!

 

TO be fair.

 

When the close games are against teams the Bills should be much much better than. Its cause for concern. 

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Oh, so you're saying be happy no matter what the team does, never criticize or question anything. That's not real life though...

These are the same people who will tell you that a 6-3 win is a fun exciting game & were entertained because the Bills won.

 

Can not be negative or be debate concerns when it comes to the Bills after a victory.

[Nextmanup]

For those who have suggested we are not a "very good team"...

 

It's worth noting that Billsfan1972 seemingly limited the scope of that rating to the first 4 games of the season.  Maybe I'm wrong and he can clarify.  

 

I think we all would agree they were a "very good team" in Weeks 1-4.  

 

If we are looking at the season as a whole, 1-8, I like the word "solid" someone used is appropriate; definitely not "very good."

 

Someone suggested 6th best team in AFC; that seems fair.

 

 

[Seventeen]

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Should I name the "Pom Pom" Brigade,  going on about 6-2 and that McD is getting everything he can out of this group (yes hyperbole & sarcasm).

 

Again I think this is a very good team who has regressed on Offense and the Defense no where near what people thought they were. 

 

Did the Titans regress on offense and defense against the Bengals ? Any given week ...

[McGahee]

I think it's a good team with an incredibly weak schedule that will allow our record to look like a great team and we'll be exposed in the playoffs by a great team.

[Rico]

3 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Something I learned from watching one of the Steelers SuperBowl runs unfold where they took a wildcard spot and won it all... Each game is its own unique entity. Not a drop of energy by players or game coaches needs to be spent (other then scouts etc.) on any other opponent than the next one on the schedule. Its the "taking it one game a t a time" cliche but it hold so true. Knowing that the Bills have ENOUGH talent overall to at least hang with any team, this approach will give them a chance to beat any team they face.

Yep. All about getting hot at the end, especially this year where home-field advantage is pretty irrelevant. Plenty of time left in the season, I’m very happy with 6-2 right now.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Rico
Happy not happen

[Process]

No but they are not far off. Need good, starting MLB and DT. And another playmaker on offense either at RB or TE. 

 

Right now if Brown or Diggs go down are skill position group is very pedestrian and not scaring anyone. 

[Penfield45]

I’d like to know where the hell you think this team is getting 12 or 11 wins from 

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

For those who have suggested we are not a "very good team"...

 

It's worth noting that Billsfan1972 seemingly limited the scope of that rating to the first 4 games of the season.  Maybe I'm wrong and he can clarify.  

 

I think we all would agree they were a "very good team" in Weeks 1-4.  

 

If we are looking at the season as a whole, 1-8, I like the word "solid" someone used is appropriate; definitely not "very good."

 

Someone suggested 6th best team in AFC; that seems fair.

 

 

I've always said I think the Bills offense is much better and has been held back by coaching and bad play calling.  I have been a huge Allen fan and saw all the potential and continually blamed it on "play close to the vest" McD for frankly holding him and Bills offense back.

 

The last 4 weeks are disconcerting and the Offense has regressed.  No stretching the field and trying to manage the game vs. asserting themselves.

 

 

  

9 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

I’d like to know where the hell you think this team is getting 12 or 11 wins from 

And since I am so negative, I'll tell you.....  NE, Miami, Denver, Seattle or Arizona, LAC, SF.

 

I am a Bills fan & an optimist.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Kwai San said:

I think the team that seemingly no one discusses is Pitt.  As much as I am NOT a Squealers fan they are looking dang good and worry me more than anyone left on the Bills remaining sched.  Yes the Hawks, Cards and Niners are going to be a HUGE test but that Pitt game is gonna be a men against boys game if it were played this week.  That being said - anything can happen.

 

I think the Bills are a slightly above average team right now still trying to figger itself out.  The next 8 games are going to be a huge challenge but we all knew this before they even blew the first whistle.

 

Go Bills!!

The Steelers look like the best team in the NFL right now.   Their defense is lights-out, great at all areas (Fitzpatrick at safety, Watt and Hawyard on DL/LB) and the offense can beat you running, passing, etc.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I think they are a very good team.  That is what I saw from the offense weeks 1-4.  I expected improvement on the D.

 

This is exactly why I (and others) post what I do, because I think this is the Bills year to go 11-5 (or 12-4).

 

But maybe I'm not right & this is an average team playing above their heads and the coaching staff doing a great job and maximizing their potential.  

 

Seems anytime people post expecting more, they are drowned out by 6-2 and that they've met or exceeded expectations.

 

BTW I'd much rather be right about them being a very good teram, then coaching being responsible for taking an again average to below average team to a better record then their personal befits. 

 

 

So in my pre-season predictions I am currently 8-0 and I had the Bills at 6-2, losing to Ten and KC. So W-L record they are right where I had them. But performance wise I have been a bit disappointed the past 4 weeks. I had them finishing 11-5 and given a chance for a do over I'd revise that down to 10-6. 

[prissythecat]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

The Steelers look like the best team in the NFL right now.   Their defense is lights-out, great at all areas (Fitzpatrick at safety, Watt and Hawyard on DL/LB) and the offense can beat you running, passing, etc.  

 

Didn't the Ravens run all over the Steelers yesterday?    The stat line was something like 457 yards of offense against just 221 for Steelers.  Dobbins had 7.5 yards per carry and Edwards something like 5.5 with over 250 yards total on the ground for the Ravens.  So I probably wouldn't quite declare that as a lights out defense. The difference was turnovers.

[GunnerBill]

54 minutes ago, McGahee said:

I think it's a good team with an incredibly weak schedule that will allow our record to look like a great team and we'll be exposed in the playoffs by a great team.

 

You think the Bills have a very weak schedule? Hmm.

 

Ignore the Jets, yes they are trash. After them...

 

W over 4-3 Dolphins

W over 5-3 Rams

W over 4-3 Raiders

L to 5-2 Titans

L to 7-1 Chiefs

W over 2-5 Pats

 

That is 4-2 against teams who are a combined 27-17 for those keeping score at home.

 

From here we go...

 

6-1 Seahawks

5-2 Cardinals 

2-5 Chargers

4-4 49ers

7-0 Steelers

3-4 Broncos

2-5 Patriots

4-3 Dolphins

 

Those teams are currently a combined 33-24 for those keeping score at home.

 

If this is a weak schedule I hope we never play a strong one!

[wjag]

Their record says they are, their point differential says they are not.  4-0 in their division and a 2.5 game lead on their nearest divisional opponent says they are.  Their rushing defense says they are  not.  I think the Hawks will be a good metric to judge this.  

[RyanC883]

10 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

Didn't the Ravens run all over the Steelers yesterday?    The stat line was something like 457 yards of offense against just 221 for Steelers.  Dobbins had 7.5 yards per carry and Edwards something like 5.5 with over 250 yards total on the ground for the Ravens.  So I probably wouldn't quite declare that as a lights out defense. The difference was turnovers.

 

lights out defense.  #1 ranked in the league I believe.  they also excel at getting turnovers going back to the beginning of last year at least.  The Ravens I believe are the best running team in the NFL.  

[dakrider]

can you really count the two wins against the Jets?   Those are wins just for showing up even though they were closer than they s/h/b.  Don't see the defense stopping Seattle much and the O won't be able to keep up.  

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Having to win close games, the horror!

But the point differential!

[Shaw66]

Thanks, Kidd.  You asked the right question.  

 

There are two distinct reactions to each game, and I think the two reactions are both relevant.   

 

One reaction is to whether the Bills put up a W or an L.   That's very important, it's what McDermott and all other coaches and players are focused on.   I didn't see any postgame, locker room video, but I am sure there was a lot of excitement in the locker room.  Wins are BIG, all the time.  Wins can't be overlooked.  Getting to 6-2 was very important for the season.   Critical, even.

 

The other reaction is a reaction to how the team played, what it looked like, what we learned.   Those reactions all relate to what we can expect from the team in the coming weeks.   That is why there's been a lot of negative reaction on this forum yesterday and today.   For some it's a reaction based simply on just barely eking out a win against a team that hasn't done much this season, and the inference that that means the Bills won't be able to beat the good teams coming up on their schedule.  For others, it's a reaction based on aspects of the team - how well the run game worked, how well the Bills defense played, etc.   

 

In my view, the best teams in the league should be viewing the Bills right now as a beatable good team.   By that I mean the Bills are always dangerous and shouldn't be taken lightly, but they have weaknesses that can be exploited to beat them.   The weaknesses focus primarily on the lines - the offensive line isn't dominating in the run and is only okay in pass protection, the defensive line can't stop the run effectively and can't generate serious pass rush without one two blitzers coming, too.   That makes the Bills suspect. 

 

However, McDermott's process is to build throughout the season, and his objective is to have no serious weaknesses as we get to December.   If McDermott and the coaches do well in the coming weeks, the Bills will put up a couple of wins that cause the league to sit up and take notice.   If they don't, or if the talent simply isn't good enough to play at the level the coaches demand, the Bills will fall back into the pack and be viewed as a team that flashed early and then faded.   

 

In other words, if you want to know if the Bills are a good team, ask me in a month.   If I had to guess where they'll be in a month, I'd guess not as good as we'd like.  I'll be happy with 2-2 in the next four games.   

[TheBrownBear]

They're a good young team on the rise.

[prissythecat]

35 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

lights out defense.  #1 ranked in the league I believe.  they also excel at getting turnovers going back to the beginning of last year at least.  The Ravens I believe are the best running team in the NFL.  

 

The Bucs are #1 in yards allowed while the Dolphins are #1 in points allowed.  Pittsburgh is #5 and #6 in those categories respectively.  If you have a truly elite defense, you aren't going to allow a  team to run like that. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netYardsPerGame/dir/asc

Edited November 2, 2020 by prissythecat

[BillsVet]

Life in general is about continuous improvement.

 

I expect that the GM and HC live by this same mantra and that they've identified the need to win in 2020.

 

The game on Sunday should provide another, albeit not final, opportunity to showcase whether they are improving.  

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

For me, the issue is with the OP thinking the issue is posters subjective ranking of this team.

 

Factually/objectively the team is 6-2.  It would be nice to see some threads revolving around the last time they were 6-2.  It would be interesting to me to hear the last time the Bills have had a 2+ lead for the division.  The last time the Bills had over a 3 game lead on the Pats*.  The odds of winning the division and the playoffs just skyrocketed- what are they now?

 

The Bills just won the biggest game of the season, possibly the year.  Odds on to make the playoffs, knocked the Pats out of the race.  Looking great for what many could consider a successful season.  Just won a huge game to have year over year improvement.  Looking like 3 out of the last 4 for the playoffs and will be the division winner.

 

This long time fan has been looking forward to the day to talk about these things, instead I must endure the "real issue" crowd.

[Don Otreply]

We are a very good team that  has lost a bit confidence on the offensive side, with key injuries,  and the D is riddled with injuries, and the new guys just aren’t up to speed, and we miss Star way more than people realize. 
 

On the topic of those bringing up our weaknesses, you knuckleheads don’t say anything without coming across as people you don’t invite to your house for a beer 🍻, mo really, you choose to say everything in absolute terms, and want to cut, fire or shoot whoever or whatever your talking about.  English is a language that allows nuance and specifics, most of you don’t even try to be any of those things, that’s why you get shouted down, temper you anger, choose your words, an  people might just want to have a conversation with you. 
 

that’s my take, 

 

Go Bills!!! 

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

The Steelers look like the best team in the NFL right now.   Their defense is lights-out, great at all areas (Fitzpatrick at safety, Watt and Hawyard on DL/LB) and the offense can beat you running, passing, etc.  

 

These guys scare me and Tampa....don't laugh....TB12 is getting comfortable, the D is crazy good.  It looks like an easy win (I know I know) for Tampa tonite.

 

[wjag]

23 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

These guys scare me and Tampa....don't laugh....TB12 is getting comfortable, the D is crazy good.  It looks like an easy win (I know I know) for Tampa tonite.

 

 

But the Giants are TB12's kryptonite..

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

They are a 6-2 Division Leading Football team.

 

That is really all that matters at this point.

We also have the 4th best winning percentage in the league right now but I know nobody wants to hear that. 

[Pete]

You are what your record says you are

[billsfan89]

The Bills are a good team they just aren't a great team. The offense while banged up a bit is in my opinion good enough to hang with any team in the league especially if they can get healthy. 

 

The defense however is both banged up and missing a few pieces. They need a true one tech Dt, a corner opposite Tre, a prime time edge rusher, and better LB play. Even if this team makes a trade to help at the one tech and gets Edumonds and Milano healthy and playing better you still have 2 to 3 other key issues.

 

Seattle is a temperature check for this team. They got beat up by 2 contenders but then got fat on 2 bad divisional opponents. Let's see if Josh can put up points on a bad defense and if the defense can limit Wilson just enough

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

4 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

We need a new LB and a new space eating DT. 

Tomlinson from NYG, Jack from JAC. Get rid of Murphy and Klein. Instant Upgrades!

[VW82]

I think this is a good team as appose to very good. Our coaching has helped us to a 6-2 record which is perhaps a little better than our play has warranted. The defense has some glaring weaknesses this year with Edmunds and White playing banged up and no beef on the Dline. The offense is improved but not to the degree where it can win games vs. good teams all by itself.