The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[transplantbillsfan]

Shaw I won't read all 23 pages to determine whether you're being chastised or not, but if you'll remember after Allen/Jackson/Mayfield/Darnold's rookie year I watched every single snap of those QBs along with to determine Allen’s "inaccuracy" compared to his peers in their rookie years... this included other rookie years from good QBs like Watson, Wentz, etc.

 

In that analysis I had some commentary about Allen I thought relevant to this thread and your point:

 

"The work so many stress Allen needs to do in the offseason regarding mechanics and just improving as a pocket passer is Jackson ×100. Baltimore does some brilliant stuff on offense in order to get WRs consistently pretty wide open and/or providing Jackson with just a single read passing wise. If anyone reminds me of Tebow this year, it's Jackson, and it's not even close."

 

That was what I thought after watching Jackson his rookie year. Last year with an entire offseason and relatively limited rookie year film, I think the Ravens really had the benefit of brilliant offensive game planning that was all-in on a unique system tailored to a unique athlete.

 

I don't know if the league has caught up with him, yet, but Josh Allen had -1 yards rushing today (obviously due to kneel downs): has Lamar Jackson EVER had a game where he didn't have any--or even MANY, like over 10--rushing yards in a game and been integral to a Win with his arm?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Shaw I won't read all 23 pages to determine whether you're being chastised or not, but if you'll remember after Allen/Jackson/Mayfield/Darnold's rookie year I watched every single snap of those QBs along with to determine Allen’s "inaccuracy" compared to his peers in their rookie years... this included other rookie years from good QBs like Watson, Wentz, etc.

 

In that analysis I had some commentary about Allen I thought relevant to this thread and your point:

 

"The work so many stress Allen needs to do in the offseason regarding mechanics and just improving as a pocket passer is Jackson ×100. Baltimore does some brilliant stuff on offense in order to get WRs consistently pretty wide open and/or providing Jackson with just a single read passing wise. If anyone reminds me of Tebow this year, it's Jackson, and it's not even close."

 

That was what I thought after watching Jackson his rookie year. Last year with an entire offseason and relatively limited rookie year film, I think the Ravens really had the benefit of brilliant offensive game planning that was all-in on a unique system tailored to a unique athlete.

 

I don't know if the league has caught up with him, yet, but Josh Allen had -1 yards rushing today (obviously due to kneel downs): has Lamar Jackson EVER had a game where he didn't have any--or even MANY, like over 10--rushing yards in a game and been integral to a Win with his arm?

Um, last season he threw 5 TD's and 324 yards and had 6 yards rushing in the season opener.

[ganesh]

46 minutes ago, FLFan said:

At this point in time, Jackson is a very limited QB. He is a great athletic talent.  Perhaps he will learn how to be a QB.  Right now, he is doing a very good imitation of Michael Vick, who (off field issues aside) never learned how to be a complete QB, and never reached his potential.  Jackson will continue to confound poor to mediocre teams, and struggle against the elite teams of the NFL due to his limitations.  He is electric when presented with the right opposition.  He is ordinary facing elite competition.  

Please see other stats comparing Michael Vick,  At this point,  Lamar is  several levels above Michael Vick in what he can do as a QB.  He has lost 3 games to Kansas City.  He has beaten every other team except the Steelers !!!!

[transplantbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Um, last season he threw 5 TD's and 324 yards and had 6 yards rushing in the season opener.

 

Thanks for pointing that one out.

 

I didn't bother looking it up. I threw the question out legitimately. He threw 20 passes in a week 1 game against a team who obviously spent MONTHS obviously game planning for his legs.

 

Like I said, he benefits from a BRILLIANT Coaching staff.

 

After that his lowest rushing total on the year was 40 yards against Buffalo where we blew a play on a Tight End for a long TD but otherwise set the blueprint that other teams would follow to beat him.

 

Last week Allen had 8 yards rushing. This week Allen had -1 yards rushing with kneeldowns and a 1 yd QB rushing TD.

 

Allen won both games and was pretty much MVP of both games... don’t think we ever see that from Jackson.

Edited October 5, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[Dr.Sack]

Jackson is leveling off while Allen is reaching top 5-10 QB play level, maybe even crossing into the top 5 discussion. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

18-1 now in games throwing fewer than 28 passes (21 today)

 

Many of Jackson's best passing games, those 5 TD games,are games where he only attempts 20-25 passes. It's great to be efficient like that in the regular season against most teams but I'd be worried long-term about how he'll play when the competition is stiffer or the Ravens just come out flat and he finds himself in a game where he needs to throw it 35 times. 35 attempts isn't even a lot for the average QB.

[The Trump Virus]

How long is an era? 

[TheElectricCompany]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

18-1 now in games throwing fewer than 28 passes (21 today)

 

Many of Jackson's best passing games, those 5 TD games,are games where he only attempts 20-25 passes. It's great to be efficient like that in the regular season against most teams but I'd be worried long-term about how he'll play when the competition is stiffer or the Ravens just come out flat and he finds himself in a game where he needs to throw it 35 times. 35 attempts isn't even a lot for the average QB.

'

Fair critique - he doesn't throw it often, but when he does, he's extremely productive. He gets some really good looks off play action - f the LB crashes the pocket, he'll hit the seam route. If they drop into coverage, he'll quickly pick up some yardage with feet. 

 

They've beat some great teams with their model, but the next bridge is playoff success. It comes with MVP territory. 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[bobobonators]

Is the Josh Allen era over as well?

[Teddy KGB]

32 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Is the Josh Allen era over as well?

Lamar caught a break and didn’t lose to the eagles.         Eagles dropped 2 tds for the win. 

[YoloinOhio]

Drama in Ravens land 

 

 

[TonyBeets]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Drama in Ravens land 

 

 

 

That pretty much confirms he's related to Antonio

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Drama in Ravens land 

 

 

 

I'm still not convinced Lamar can pass to win a game.

[Rc2catch]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I'm still not convinced Lamar can pass to win a game.

Crazy right. Pats and Ravens in their 4 minute drill offenses to win a game ran every play. What more can you say about them as passers? Their coaches didn’t have any faith they could complete a pass and ran basically every play down the field. Only to get in the red zone and turn it over. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 10/5/2020 at 12:25 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

18-1 now in games throwing fewer than 28 passes (21 today)

 

Many of Jackson's best passing games, those 5 TD games,are games where he only attempts 20-25 passes. It's great to be efficient like that in the regular season against most teams but I'd be worried long-term about how he'll play when the competition is stiffer or the Ravens just come out flat and he finds himself in a game where he needs to throw it 35 times. 35 attempts isn't even a lot for the average QB.

 

it is because Josh is a QB that runs and not a runner playing QB.  

 

PEOPLE are getting wise on how to stop LJ

[Teddy KGB]

Time for the Ravens to draft a Qb and move Jackson to Wideout.  

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:10 AM, Halloween Land said:

Yeah the buzz will be about Allen vs Mahomes instead of Jackson vs Mahomes. Jackson is just an average thrower with limitations. 

I've said this since last year. The Lamar Jackson hype will eventually die out. I think he is now 0-6 when trailing in the 4th quarter. Yes he's ridiculously athletic but if he doesn't establish a pocket game he will die out. As Michael Vick did.

[billsfan89]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

I've said this since last year. The Lamar Jackson hype will eventually die out. I think he is now 0-6 when trailing in the 4th quarter. Yes he's ridiculously athletic but if he doesn't establish a pocket game he will die out. As Michael Vick did.

 

Vick had a bad work ethic, he never developed his game when he was young, Andy Reid got a hold of him and he had his best year before getting hurt. But Lamar has a good head on his shoulders and works hard. 

 

I don't know if Lamar will develop or not but I think he has a chance to develop into a better more consistent passer.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Vick had a bad work ethic, he never developed his game when he was young, Andy Reid got a hold of him and he had his best year before getting hurt. But Lamar has a good head on his shoulders and works hard. 

 

I don't know if Lamar will develop or not but I think he has a chance to develop into a better more consistent passer.

 

Maybe... but not likely the way they are developing him.  I don't think he has the talent.  His only good pass is down the seam.  Amazing athlete though.

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Time for the Ravens to draft a Qb and move Jackson to Wideout.  

He could bulk up a tiny bit and be the next Taysom Hill....

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Maybe... but not likely the way they are developing him.  I don't think he has the talent.  His only good pass is down the seam.  Amazing athlete though.

 

I think the Ravens organization is good enough to change his style of play and work with him to develop into a more well rounded QB. He does need more help at WR but that's not the only thing holding him back. 

[DuckyBoys]

Ravens had almost 500 yards of offense  Steelers just made some big plays and feasted on turnovers 

[Scott7975]

Just now, billsfan89 said:

 

I think the Ravens organization is good enough to change his style of play and work with him to develop into a more well rounded QB. He does need more help at WR but that's not the only thing holding him back. 

 

The Ravens are definitely a good organization and well coached.  I just haven't seen anything different out of them.  They are playing Roman ball.  They have the perfect QB to play in that system.  The thing is... if you never try to expand upon Roman ball then you are never going to get better at the other stuff.

[Trogdor]

I mean the refs screwed them on time at the end and could've easily flagged the last play. I'm not sure this game was one to point to. 

[H2o]

Lamar hasn't been the same Lamar as last season, but he's still a quality starter in a perfect situation for himself and that organization. In his defense, no one has really looked good against that Steelers defense this year. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, Trogdor said:

I mean the refs screwed them on time at the end and could've easily flagged the last play. I'm not sure this game was one to point to. 

flag on the last play? For what? 

[thenorthremembers]

Lets hope his Era is over, as they are more than likely the Bills first round playoff opponents. 

[Trogdor]

5 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

flag on the last play? For what? 

The hand was in there legally to break up the play, but they still made a lot of contact with the receivers head. I've seen it get called for a lot less. Two weeks in a row though and the Steelers get questionable calls at the end of the 4th to seal it. Ravens should've had at least 5 more seconds there or at least a flag for the player down behind the line if they won't add time. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

The hand was in there legally to break up the play, but they still made a lot of contact with the receivers head. I've seen it get called for a lot less. Two weeks in a row though and the Steelers get questionable calls at the end of the 4th to seal it. Ravens should've had at least 5 more seconds there or at least a flag for the player down behind the line if they won't add time. 

I am not sure about the clock issue, but I feel

like you are right about that. seems like it should have stopped at the moment the Steelers player couldn’t get up.
 

But that pass defense by Fitzpatrick On the last play was a thing of beauty. Timed perfectly— going for the ball. It would have been an insanely bad call to call anything there. Snead had no chance. 

[JohnNord]

I thought Lamar was going to sh*t the bed

on the last drive.  He did a solid job of leading them down the field but just ran out of time.  I think he’s still a top QB in this league

[Trogdor]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am not sure about the clock issue, but I feel

like you are right about that. seems like it should have stopped at the moment the Steelers player couldn’t get up.
 

But that pass defense by Fitzpatrick On the last play was a thing of beauty. Timed perfectly— going for the ball. It would have been an insanely bad call to call anything there. Snead had no chance. 

If the NFL was a place where physical plays happen in the secondary, I would totally agree. Unfortunately players are almost always flagged for hitting too hard now. Add in the fact that there was contact to the head and I'm just surprised. His hand being in there and being at the right height was amazing though. 

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

Ravens had almost 500 yards of offense  Steelers just made some big plays and feasted on turnovers 

Apparently marquise brown feels ignored 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/02/hollywood-brown-apparently-isnt-happy-with-his-role/

 

Not everyone is happy in Ravens' Land apparently. The lack of utilization via play calling or Lamar's inability to get the ball to his WR's on a consistent basis isn't giving Marquise Brown that warm and fuzzy feeling. 

[Greg S]

18 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

Ravens had almost 500 yards of offense  Steelers just made some big plays and feasted on turnovers 

 

Those two INT's ( the pick 6 and the one deep in Ravens territory) kept Pitt in the game and ultimately allowed them to comeback and win it.

[Big Turk]

18 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

Ravens had almost 500 yards of offense  Steelers just made some big plays and feasted on turnovers 

 

Ravens had more than double the yards the Steelers did, outgaining them 457 to 221. They won the game and figured out a way to get it done...kind of how the Bills figured out a way to get it done...

 

Steelers have not been a huge offensive team even though they are scoring points.  They have only gone over 400 total yards once, and it was against the Broncos with 410.  They have been held to under 300 yards offense two of the past 3 games(Ravens and Browns)

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Those two INT's ( the pick 6 and the one deep in Ravens territory) kept Pitt in the game and ultimately allowed them to comeback and win it.

And Haden almost had another

13 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/02/hollywood-brown-apparently-isnt-happy-with-his-role/

 

Not everyone is happy in Ravens' Land apparently. The lack of utilization via play calling or Lamar's inability to get the ball to his WR's on a consistent basis isn't giving Marquise Brown that warm and fuzzy feeling. 

[K-9]

People underestimate Lamar Jackson and the Ravens at their own peril. 

[wjag]

18 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I mean the refs screwed them on time at the end and could've easily flagged the last play. I'm not sure this game was one to point to. 

 

Yeah, not giving them any more time when there was a Steeler delaying the game was a curious decision.  Not sure how you go about assessing how much time was owed to the Ravens, but it should have been more than 08 seconds.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://sports.yahoo.com/lamar-jacksons-struggles-183215931.html

 

Now beclowned and defeated in the Ravens’ two biggest games of the year — Jackson’s Week 3 performance against the Chiefs was one of the worst by any quarterback this season — Jackson finds himself looking more like the limited passer he was as a rookie than MVP he was a sophomore. There aren’t any easy answers. Jackson is the Ravens’ sole means of instant offense, with his skill corps amongst the league’s shallowest. Until Sunday, a three-man backfield had not been carrying its weight behind its dual-threat quarterback. Gus Edwards and J.K. Dobbins did their best to change that against the Steelers as Mark Ingram sat with a high-ankle sprain. 

[BITE ME]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

People underestimate Lamar Jackson and the Ravens at their own peril. 

 

I wouldn't underestimate them, but they are a flawed team in a brutal conference.  The way they are built they have no chance of ever beating the Chiefs, and they will have a real tough time beating the Steelers or even the Colts.  Their passing attack is awful and they just lost a major part of their O line.  They are not winning anything this year.