The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[HT02]

Absolutely, that is just my projection of his potential.  I think he is a top 10 QB in the league but not as you said ""MVP who has revolutionized the league" he was way overrated last year.  I think we are on the same page. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:06 AM, Shaw66 said:

Allen has the better arm. What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh.  

I just don't know what NFL games you're watching. 

 

Mahomes had a throw to Hill on Sunday for a Touchdown was a 50 yard laser. 

 

He had one about two games ago that was 60 yards in the air to Hill for the TD that was called back for holding. 

 

Outside of Foster in 2018 (for 5-games), and John Brown against Miami, when does Allen uncork this arm for TDs?

 

Mahomes vision sets him apart from everyone in the league (maybe outside of Brady/Wilson). He sees everything. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, HT02 said:

Absolutely, that is just my projection of his potential.  I think he is a top 10 QB in the league but not as you said ""MVP who has revolutionized the league" he was way overrated last year.  I think we are on the same page. 

By the vast majority of relevant statistics outside running the football he is nowhere close to a top 10 QB this season.

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I just don't know what NFL games you're watching. 

 

Mahomes had a throw to Hill on Sunday for a Touchdown was a 50 yard laser. 

 

He had one about two games ago that was 60 yards in the air to Hill for the TD that was called back for holding. 

 

Outside of Foster in 2018 (for 5-games), and John Brown against Miami, when does Allen uncork this arm for TDs?

 

Mahomes vision sets him apart from everyone in the league (maybe outside of Brady/Wilson). He sees everything. 

Imo in that Reid/Bienemy scheme Allen would be putting up 90% of Mahomes’ stats

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I just don't know what NFL games you're watching. 

 

Mahomes had a throw to Hill on Sunday for a Touchdown was a 50 yard laser. 

 

He had one about two games ago that was 60 yards in the air to Hill for the TD that was called back for holding. 

 

Outside of Foster in 2018 (for 5-games), and John Brown against Miami, when does Allen uncork this arm for TDs?

 

Mahomes vision sets him apart from everyone in the league (maybe outside of Brady/Wilson). He sees everything. 

 

To me this depends a bit what people mean when the say "he has a better arm". I think Allen probably has the strongest arm in football.... but in terms of overall arm talent and throwing at all sorts of angles and with the quick snap of the release I think Mahomes's arm is something special. Josh throws a laser though. There is something beautiful about watching Josh laser those intermediate throws 15-25 yards right into the numbers on a guy's jersey. I know people love deep balls but I have always thought the best NFL QBs are the great intermediate throwers and when he is in rhythm Josh is right up there with the best guys in the league today in that range.

[TheElectricCompany]

24 minutes ago, HT02 said:

Absolutely, that is just my projection of his potential.  I think he is a top 10 QB in the league but not as you said ""MVP who has revolutionized the league" he was way overrated last year.  I think we are on the same page. 

 

He wasn't overrated last year..it was arguably the best dual threat QB season we've ever seen.

 

On offense, there are three pretty indisputable things the Ravens offense has shown since LJ became the starter. 1) Elite running performance  2) Red Zone efficiency and 3) Chunk yardage off play action. Lamar is the catalyst for all three. Assuming they can keep these up, the playoff wins should follow.

Edited November 3, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Chicken Boo]

OPs Murray take looks as awful now as it did then.

 

How about the Ravens get Lamar some talent at the WR position!  Miget Hollywood Brown and a bunch of jags ain't it.

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The TDs are nice but realistically the guy is not having a good year throwing the football

 

He has Mark Andrews and who else?

Edited November 3, 2020 by Chicken Boo

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

OPs Murray take looks as awful now as it did then.

 

How about the Ravens get Lamar some talent at the WR position!  Miget Hollywood Brown and a bunch of jags ain't it.

 

He has Mark Andrews and who else?

Not much. It's a function of Roman's offense and the salary cap. Spending $$ on wideouts in a system that throws the ball at an extremely low rate is bad cap allocation. That team is set up around Jackson's talents and flaws for better or worse. 

[Chicken Boo]

I've always thought it was weird the dual threat guys (McNair, McNabb, Vick, Cam, Lamar) never seem to get the help on the outside that they need.  Ultra talented, but that talent is relied on too much.

 

One of the main reasons I believe in Kyler Murray.  He has what he needs around him.  As did Cunningham on the Vikings (Fred Barnett was no slouch either) and Russ now with the Hawks.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Chicken Boo

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

He wasn't overrated last year..it was arguably the best dual threat QB season we've ever seen.

 

On offense, there are three pretty indisputable things the Ravens offense has shown since LJ became the starter. 1) Elite running performance  2) Red Zone efficiency and 3) Chunk yardage off play action. Lamar is the catalyst for all three. Assuming they can keep these up, the playoff wins should follow.

 

1, 2 and 3 are true.

 

Your last point hasn't been realized yet in a big game vs a top opponent. Until Jackson proves otherwise, 1, 2 and 3 three are just stats.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I just don't know what NFL games you're watching. 

 

Mahomes had a throw to Hill on Sunday for a Touchdown was a 50 yard laser. 

 

He had one about two games ago that was 60 yards in the air to Hill for the TD that was called back for holding. 

 

Outside of Foster in 2018 (for 5-games), and John Brown against Miami, when does Allen uncork this arm for TDs?

 

Mahomes vision sets him apart from everyone in the league (maybe outside of Brady/Wilson). He sees everything. 

I mean I don’t care about the debate because Both guys have elite fastballs, an obviously mahommes has proven more to date, but The TD throw to Yeldon verses Tennessee was absofrikenlutley a 40 yard rocket with very little arc. 4 guys were within a few yards around it, in zone facing the qb. Listen to the sound of this thing hitting his chest. 
 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I mean I don’t care about the debate because Both guys have elite fastballs, an obviously mahommes has proven more to date, but The TD throw to Yeldon verses Tennessee was absofrikenlutley a 40 yard rocket with very little arc. 
 

I don't think there is another QB in the league that can make that throw tbh

[billsfan_34]

3 years isnt an era but...he wont last long in this league playing like a RB. Also, once he slows down some its game over- he isnt too bright.

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't think there is another QB in the league that can make that throw tbh

Mahomes can

[without a drought]

Kind of brings me back to the days of the Josh Allen era.

 

Those were something. 

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

OPs Murray take looks as awful now as it did then.

 

How about the Ravens get Lamar some talent at the WR position!  Miget Hollywood Brown and a bunch of jags ain't it.

 

He has Mark Andrews and who else?

He had John Brown as a rookie. Yet Brown elected not to stay.

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

I've always thought it was weird the dual threat guys (McNair, McNabb, Vick, Cam, Lamar) never seem to get the help on the outside that they need.  Ultra talented, but that talent is relied on too much.

 

Yeah, but it's a chicken or the egg thing.   It's James Harden.  If he's going to lead your team, the ball has to be in his hands.   Why does a top power forward want to play on that team?   Lebron, sure, but he's a passer. 

 

When you build a team that is going to run 60% of the time, and when you don't run, you run play action and throw the ball 5-10 yards downfield, you aren't going to get Amari Cooper to sign up.   

 

The fact of the matter is that when you make your QB the focus of your game, you focus the defense in the space close to the QB.  That puts a lot of defenders in a relatively small area.   When you come at people with Sammy Watkins and Hill (or John Brown and Diggs), you tend to force the defense to cover a bigger area.  But Diggs doesn't want to play in an offense that intends to have Lamar dominate with his legs.   So until Jackson is a serious passer, a pocket passer who can attack the whole field with his arm, his offense is limited and he's not going to get great receiving talent around him. 

[The Jokeman]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, but it's a chicken or the egg thing.   It's James Harden.  If he's going to lead your team, the ball has to be in his hands.   Why does a top power forward want to play on that team?   Lebron, sure, but he's a passer. 

 

When you build a team that is going to run 60% of the time, and when you don't run, you run play action and throw the ball 5-10 yards downfield, you aren't going to get Amari Cooper to sign up.   

 

The fact of the matter is that when you make your QB the focus of your game, you focus the defense in the space close to the QB.  That puts a lot of defenders in a relatively small area.   When you come at people with Sammy Watkins and Hill (or John Brown and Diggs), you tend to force the defense to cover a bigger area.  But Diggs doesn't want to play in an offense that intends to have Lamar dominate with his legs.   So until Jackson is a serious passer, a pocket passer who can attack the whole field with his arm, his offense is limited and he's not going to get great receiving talent around him. 

Or he could have good receiving talent and not take advantage of it see when Tyrod had Woods, Sammy, Goodwin and Hogan.

[Shaw66]

35 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Or he could have good receiving talent and not take advantage of it see when Tyrod had Woods, Sammy, Goodwin and Hogan.

Depends what order it happens in. 

 

If you have Lamar, great receivers aren't going there.   If you have Woods and Sammy and Goodwin and Hogan, Tyrod is happy to go there.   And then all the receivers leave, which is exactly what happened.  

 

Good receivers don't want to be wasted on a team that runs and throws to the tight ends.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't think there is another QB in the league that can make that throw tbh

That play shows everything you need to know. Pocket presence, vision, patience. Sick arm, accuracy, velocity, risk calculation... 

 

at this point if the team isn’t successful it’s the pieces around. The QB is the best thing we’ve seen since Kelly. But frankly Kelly didn’t have this arm or was as athletic. 

[Penfield45]

Why does OP constantly hate on minority QB’s ? Seems strange 

[Scott7975]

https://www.nfl.com/news/offensive-player-rankings-week-9-what-s-behind-lamar-jackson-s-struggles