Report: bills wanted to draft Wilson/Prescott

[Buftex]

After being fired upon the completion of his final (lame duck) draft with the Bills, I seem to remember a lot of talk (met with a fair amount of derision by Bills fans) that Whaley was pushing for the Bills to draft Patrick Mahomes. Instead, the pick was traded to the Chiefs for their first rounder and third rounders.  I love Tre'Davious White, and I am glad we have Allen..but Patrick Mahomes?

 

I will always believe that Whaley made his mistakes, but he wasn't the disaster as a GM that seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.  He never really had all the power he should have had, to be successful.  

Edited July 22, 2020 by Buftex

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Breaking news! Former QB coach retrospectively recalls he wanted the bills to draft these probowl QBs 
 

Scandalous! 

9 minutes ago, Buftex said:

After being fired upon the completion of his final (lame duck) draft with the Bills, I seem to remember a lot of talk (met with a fair amount of derision by Bills fans) that Whaley was pushing for the Bills to draft Patrick Mahomes. Instead, the pick was traded to the Chiefs for their first rounder and third rounders.  I love Tre'Davious White, and I am glad we have Allen..but Patrick Mahomes?

 

I will always believe that Whaley made his mistakes, but he wasn't the disaster as a GM that seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.  He never really had all the power he should have had, to be successful.  

best summary of him I ever saw was; he was decent to even good at finding talent, particularly Amin certain position groups like LB, but not at building teams. 
 

seems fair 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

18 minutes ago, Buftex said:

After being fired upon the completion of his final (lame duck) draft with the Bills, I seem to remember a lot of talk (met with a fair amount of derision by Bills fans) that Whaley was pushing for the Bills to draft Patrick Mahomes. Instead, the pick was traded to the Chiefs for their first rounder and third rounders.  I love Tre'Davious White, and I am glad we have Allen..but Patrick Mahomes?

 

I will always believe that Whaley made his mistakes, but he wasn't the disaster as a GM that seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.  He never really had all the power he should have had, to be successful.  

 

Whaley was essentially an overpaid scout.

 

He had no concept on team building.

 

[Rc2catch]

Similar to Mahomes given our situation I’m not sure Wilson would of been MVP caliber here. He’s had some good coaching and of course his own hard work to become a top tier quarterback. Our team was a mess. 

[DrDawkinstein]

21 minutes ago, Buftex said:

After being fired upon the completion of his final (lame duck) draft with the Bills, I seem to remember a lot of talk (met with a fair amount of derision by Bills fans) that Whaley was pushing for the Bills to draft Patrick Mahomes. Instead, the pick was traded to the Chiefs for their first rounder and third rounders.  I love Tre'Davious White, and I am glad we have Allen..but Patrick Mahomes?

 

I will always believe that Whaley made his mistakes, but he wasn't the disaster as a GM that seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.  He never really had all the power he should have had, to be successful.  

 

I thought it was Deshaun Watson? Either way, he finally would have made a decent QB pick. But I cant fault McD for blocking any QB picks regardless of who was there. Everyone knew Whaley was on his way out and a new GM was on their way in, so not fair to saddle the new GM with a Whaley QB pick. Nor would I stake my first-time coaching job on a Whaley QB pick if I were McD.

Just now, Rc2catch said:

Similar to Mahomes given our situation I’m not sure Wilson would of been MVP caliber here. He’s had some good coaching and of course his own hard work to become a top tier quarterback. Our team was a mess. 

 

Outside of that 2014 team with Marrone, I agree. Especially when it comes to the coaching support.

 

Pete Carroll had Wilson Athletics make them custom footballs without laces because he saw Russell liked getting the ball out quickly, and wanted him to learn to do it without needing to find the laces first. Does anyone think Marrone/Hackett were going that in-depth in their development?

[Buftex]

21 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Breaking news! Former QB coach retrospectively recalls he wanted the bills to draft these probowl QBs 
 

Scandalous! 

best summary of him I ever saw was; he was decent to even good at finding talent, particularly Amin certain position groups like LB, but not at building teams. 
 

seems fair 

You are your results, so that is fair.  I will say though, I think he was doing a decent job of building a team. It kind of got blown up when Rex was hired.  Ryan was the de-facto GM at that point.  Whaley never got to pick his QB, or his coach.  And, you can't deny, there was a certain urgency to getting the team to the playoffs, asap.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Buftex

[whorlnut]

Who cares?  There was also a report that said the Seahawks were ready to trade Wilson to the Browns for the number one pick in 2018 so they could draft Allen. Allen also won head to head against Prescott on Thanksgiving.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, Buftex said:

You are your results, so that is fair.  I will say though, I think he was doing a decent job of building a team. It kind of got blown up when Rex was hired.  Ryan was the de-facto GM at that point.  Whaley never got to pick his QB, or his coach.  And, you can't deny, there was a certain urgency to getting the team to the playoffs, asap.

 

Whaley was GM for 4 years, and in that time had 3 Head Coaches and 4 Defensive Coordinators to draft for. And none of the DCs ran even close to the same scheme as the previous.

 

I wont do a ton of arguing for Whaley as the results are what they are, but he never had a chance of succeeding with the way this organization was run.

[Just Joshin']

This is why you over draft QBs so you get who you want.

[QCity]

I forgot Whaley drafted Cardale Jones. Yikes.

[Buddo]

5 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

This is why you over draft QBs so you get who you want.

 

That is in actuality, the crux of the matter. Nix was trying to be too clever before drafting Wilson. The same thing happened with, I think, Cousins, a year or so before. Nix didn't learn from his mistake that year, but eventually did do so, but for the wrong QB in EJ. At least then he traded down before doing so.

 

Probably around the time he was retiring, I remember a presser with Nix, where he talked about this stuff. The Cousins situation was pretty annoying, becaue nobody expected the 'Skins to double down on QBs after taking RG3.

 

While it's easy to criticise with hindsight, teams regularly will try and wait to take a player they like, to get the best value from their picks.  An absolutely classic example of this was the Kyle Williams pick. Marv wanted to take him a round before, but Modrak persuaded him he would still be there in the next round, which thankfully, he was.

 

As regards Whaley, his issues all largely stemmed from never being the guy who had the final say - even when he was GM, mainly due to the situation as regards ownership and structures. For sure, he had input into a lot of those decisions, but as to being able to put his own 'stamp' on the selection of QB and HC, he never really was given that opportunity.

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Had we drafted Russ Wilson we would have missed out on the acrobatic catches of TJ Graham (the only WR I’ve ever seen jump three feet in the air to attempt catching a ball thrown at his shins). 

I could use a laugh, so if anyone has a clip of that it would be appreciated. 

 

Or not, maybe it would make me more sad.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Had we drafted Russ Wilson we would have missed out on the acrobatic catches of TJ Graham (the only WR I’ve ever seen jump three feet in the air to attempt catching a ball thrown at his shins). 

seriously-  He had 7 catches for 100 yds as a senior in high school. Was a good returner in college but meh as a WR. 
 

They were Always trying to get cute with these small track stars and returners...  “ya can’t coach speed”  ? 

 

 

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I distinctly remember Nix saying he didn't like Russell Wilson's size.  He couldn't get past that - he thought he was too small and his hands were too.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

If he is so smart evaluating QBs, why didn't he provide his opinion of Josh Allen? Or will he wait till Allen retires? 

I believe he also wanted to draft tom brady in retrospect 

Just now, Never NEVER Give-up said:

I distinctly remember Nix saying he didn't like Russell Wilson's size.  He couldn't get past that - he thought he was too small and his hands were too.

 

Height is why he fell, but Russ has monster hand size ... 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[vincec]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

Of course Lee wanted to draft them. 

I'm sure he did... in hindsight.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, vincec said:

I'm sure he did... in hindsight.

 

So did everyone else.

[gobills1212]

I thgt we all knew this already, no?

[blacklabel]

The Wilson stuff has been talked about for ages. Even right after that draft they were lamenting the fact that they graded him too low. IIRC, around that time it came out that Seattle was literally the only team that had a third round grade on him. Everyone else had a fourth round or later grade on him. 

 

And I recall rumblings in 2016 that they had major interest in Dak, but I don't think it was said that Whaley was all in on Cardale. From what I can remember, Cardale was like the consolation prize because they'd missed on Dak. Imagine how much more of a whoopin' Whaley would've taken if both Dak and Cardale were still on the board and he took Cardale over Dak. Yikes. Dude's a good scout but not a great team builder. His whole philosophy of drafting from winning programs in hopes that picks from those schools would somehow bring that winning magic with them was bogus.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

7 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/22/buffalo-bills-david-lee-claims-wanted-draft-russell-wilson-dak-prescott/

 

 

interesting if true

 

FACTS:

Buffalo wanted TJ Graham ahead of Russell Wilson

Buffalo wanted both Reggie Ragland and Adolphius Washington ahead of Dak Prescott.

[C.Biscuit97]

Gotta admit the smartest this board has ever been was the amount of posters who wanted Wilson.  It was actually really impressive.  
 

and I don’t remember that much Dak love but the guy was a baller at one of the historically worst SEC programs.  
 

again, college production doesn’t mean nfl success.  But a lack of it is a red flag.   These guys were really good college players. 

4 hours ago, Buftex said:

After being fired upon the completion of his final (lame duck) draft with the Bills, I seem to remember a lot of talk (met with a fair amount of derision by Bills fans) that Whaley was pushing for the Bills to draft Patrick Mahomes. Instead, the pick was traded to the Chiefs for their first rounder and third rounders.  I love Tre'Davious White, and I am glad we have Allen..but Patrick Mahomes?

 

I will always believe that Whaley made his mistakes, but he wasn't the disaster as a GM that seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.  He never really had all the power he should have had, to be successful.  

Whaley was completely handcuffed as a GM and a good soldier.  Even with his EJ mistake (who was completely terribly developed), he brought in Orton the coward, Cassell, and Tyrod.  

[njbuff]

I call total bs.

 

If Nix wanted Wilson so bad, he would have went out and got him.

 

If you are in the market for a QB, you don't take up in the 3rd round for a 7th round WR when Wilson is right there in your laps.

 

Such a load of bs being spouted by the Bills (Nix) on this.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Similar to Mahomes given our situation I’m not sure Wilson would of been MVP caliber here. He’s had some good coaching and of course his own hard work to become a top tier quarterback. Our team was a mess. 

Really??? People love to overrated how bad the Bills were.  Wilson’s rookie year receivers were golden tate (who had 600 yards in 2 years), Sidney Rice (who had one fluke year and then sucked pretty much every other year), and UDFa Baldwin. He did have Lynch.
 

we had Spiller who had 1200 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc (still can’t believe he washed out like he did), Stevie, and a bunch of young guys.  Wilson would have been a baller here.  

[papazoid]

it doesn't matter if you like/want 10 guys when its your turn to pick

[Rc2catch]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Really??? People love to overrated how bad the Bills were.  Wilson’s rookie year receivers were golden tate (who had 600 yards in 2 years), Sidney Rice (who had one fluke year and then sucked pretty much every other year), and UDFa Baldwin. He did have Lynch.
 

we had Spiller who had 1200 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc (still can’t believe he washed out like he did), Stevie, and a bunch of young guys.  Wilson would have been a baller here.  

I’m not sold on that idea. I’m not even sure Gailey would of started Wilson over Fitz to be 100% honest. Gailey could of developed Wilson but marrone might of ruined him after. Lot of what ifs, Wilson had a great situation in Seattle even though it was a big surprise when they started him as a rookie. Can’t remember but they just signed a Green Bay guy who was supposed to start. 
 

I would of liked to see Wilson with Spiller and Fred and the Schwartz defense that came later. 

[BillsVet]

File this one under the Not Believable category alongside Greggo saying he would have drafted Drew Brees in 2001.  

 

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I love how they pick good QBs and then say “we planned to draft them.” Ha ha, I’m waiting for the article that says “Bills had their heart set on Christian Ponder” (which was also rumored). They selectively pick good QBs and are like “yeah, that was my guy.”

 

First, Buddy wasn't interested in QB's because he hamstrung himself by signing Fitz to a decent sized contract extension the previous year.  Drafting a QB like Wilson in the top 100 of the  2012 draft would definitely undermine that decision.  

 

Second, by 2012, Buddy was staring at his third season and had just signed Mario Williams in a last gasp attempt to improve on his then 10-22 tenure.  Taking a young QB who clearly wasn't gonna start and probably wasn't ready to play makes zero sense.  

 

Pure revisionist history.  

 

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, QCity said:

I forgot Whaley drafted Cardale Jones. Yikes.

For a 4th round pick he was worth a shot given many believed his arm was the strongest in the draft that year (plus we still had Tyrod and Manuel on the roster).  Most scouts had a 2nd to 3rd round grade on him.  It was the Watkins trade that put the nail in Whaley's coffin.

[Punching Bag]

9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

We passed on him 3 times, so evidently we didn't want him that bad.

 

So did other teams include Seahawks.  Point?

9 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

And I wanted to buy $20k of Tesla stock in April...

 

Sorry if you spent it on bail money.

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Really??? People love to overrated how bad the Bills were.  Wilson’s rookie year receivers were golden tate (who had 600 yards in 2 years), Sidney Rice (who had one fluke year and then sucked pretty much every other year), and UDFa Baldwin. He did have Lynch.
 

we had Spiller who had 1200 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc (still can’t believe he washed out like he did), Stevie, and a bunch of young guys.  Wilson would have been a baller here.  

 

I don’t think so - Gailey had Fitz and all the talk was about how much he could add because Fitz was smart and had experience in the offense.

 

Gailey valued experience a ton - I don’t think Wilson even sniffs the field.  
 

Also based upon Fitz’s history - if Wilson had played at some point Fitz would have taken back over and Wilson would have wallowed away.  See the Fitz circle.

 

He may have had a shot with Marone - as he did not seem set on EJ, but that is all speculation if things had stayed the same.

[Augie]

 

 

If Montana is not added to this list, I’m going to get very angry!!!

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

I call total bs.

 

If Nix wanted Wilson so bad, he would have went out and got him.

 

If you are in the market for a QB, you don't take up in the 3rd round for a 7th round WR when Wilson is right there in your laps.

 

Such a load of bs being spouted by the Bills (Nix) on this.

This is 100.  Everyone is trying to paint themselves in the best light possible - especially Buddy Nix.  I’m not believing that Nix was that in to Wilson.  If he was, he wouldn’t have waited until round 4 to draft him.  At worst, he would have taken Wilson with his 3rd round pick and then tried to trade up for Graham or draft another WR.  
 

If there is any truth to what Nix said it’s likely that they were interested in taking a flyer on Wilson if he fell to later rounds (maybe the 4th,) but didn’t see enough in him to select him any higher.  You don’t draft a TJ Graham if you think there’s a potential starting QB on the board.  

Nix also tries to make it look like the EJ wasn’t as bad as a pick as it was in actuality.   He said EJ would have been a winner, if they waited another round to draft him.  This makes absolutely no sense.   EJ was not a good NFL QB...whether he was drafted in Round 1, 2, or 3.  
 

If Nix viewed EJ the way I believe they viewed Wilson in 2012, they would have waited to draft a him in the 3rd or 4th, where most scouts had him pegged.  

 

It’s my belief that Nix and Whaley legit though EJ was “the man” which is why drafted him in round 1.  They thought he was a first round talent.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by JohnNord

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, BillsVet said:

File this one under the Not Believable category alongside Greggo saying he would have drafted Drew Brees in 2001.  

 

 

First, Buddy wasn't interested in QB's because he hamstrung himself by signing Fitz to a decent sized contract extension the previous year.  Drafting a QB like Wilson in the top 100 of the  2012 draft would definitely undermine that decision.  

 

Second, by 2012, Buddy was staring at his third season and had just signed Mario Williams in a last gasp attempt to improve on his then 10-22 tenure.  Taking a young QB who clearly wasn't gonna start and probably wasn't ready to play makes zero sense.  

 

Pure revisionist history.  

 

yep I think he was still hoping that Fitz would pan out in 2012 and I don’t buy that QB was as big of a need in his mind then.  Buddy was not the type of GM that would do something proactive like targeting a QB in the middle rounds.

[bmur66]

Thanks. I forgot I am pissed the Bill's drafted TJ freakin Graham instead of Russel Wilson

[ALF]

Having the best talent evaluator scouts that money can buy is the key to success.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

Thanks. I forgot I am pissed the Bill's drafted TJ freakin Graham instead of Russel Wilson

As are we all.  I know bud, but then again, this the upteenth thread that we wanted, Roger Staubach, Brett Favre, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, I can keep going.  If someone isn’t asking for us to trade a player we never have a ***** at, it’s a thread we should have drafted this or that guy, to an old coach saying I really wanted that guy, but we missed him.

 

Bottom line is we have Allen, a solid team, great coaching and management.  I’m not one to look back at bad decisions I’ve made as its in the past and can’t be changed.  Hopefully this team has learned from previous mistakes and are on an excellent path.  That’s one of the reasons why I really liked the Diggs trade.  You can’t build a team in one year so Beane in year 3 spent a good amount of capital for a true #1 and recognized the cash strap Vikings would bit on the deal.

 

Not being negative to anyone on the board, I just want to look forwards.

[4merper4mer]

18 hours ago, Best Player Available said:

IIRC, Nix passed on Wilson because he lacked height. He actually said that. 

Of course Bills fans eventually ended up with the great EJ Manuel. He was tall enough. lol

To be fair not many short QBs before Wilson have done anything.  Was Moon Wilson's height?   The Bills in fact had suffered through a popular but horrible Lilliputian QB in their recent past.  Maybe watching that QB fail while the Bills had a solid roster surrounding him scared Nix away.  

 

Lest anyone think this post means to show support for the unpopular and also horrible but tall QB the Bills had as an alternative, it isn't. It's the wrong thread for that.

[simpleman]

19 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's been known they targeted Wilson in the 4th, which made trading up for Graham even worse. 

 

You can't tell me you liked a QB but were willing to wait until the 4th for him, that's just BS. You thought he was a backup prospect or else you would have done everything in your power to draft him much higher.

I remember how excited I was when they announced the trade up. They were finally going to draft Wilson. Then they ..What!!!... Who??

 

[simpleman]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

To be fair not many short QBs before Wilson have done anything.  Was Moon Wilson's height?   The Bills in fact had suffered through a popular but horrible Lilliputian QB in their recent past.  Maybe watching that QB fail while the Bills had a solid roster surrounding him scared Nix away.  

 

Lest anyone think this post means to show support for the unpopular and also horrible but tall QB the Bills had as an alternative, it isn't. It's the wrong thread for that.

Wasn't that the knock against Mahomes?  Both Wilson and Mahomes were "too short". Look around the league right now. Who are in the top tier of active QBs?

[vincec]

12 minutes ago, simpleman said:

I remember how excited I was when they announced the trade up. They were finally going to draft Wilson. Then they ..What!!!... Who??

 

My experience exactly.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

For a 4th round pick he was worth a shot given many believed his arm was the strongest in the draft that year (plus we still had Tyrod and Manuel on the roster).  Most scouts had a 2nd to 3rd round grade on him.  It was the Watkins trade that put the nail in Whaley's coffin.

 

Teams had 2nd and 3rd round grades on Cardale????? Which teams?