Lions possibly looking to move Stafford

[Fan in Chicago]

11 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

I honestly forgot how good Stafford was this year. In 8 games he threw for 2500 yards and 19 TDs and 8.6 yards per attempt.

 

 

Much like Rivers - all the stats, few post-season wins. 

[whatdrought]

I think people are severely underrating Stafford and the work he's done in Detroit, while failing to realize how bad that team has been at team building the past 20 years....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-lions-trying-trade-matthew-113321933.html

 

Lions GM says "fake news"

https://sports.yahoo.com/bob-quinn-calls-matthew-stafford-120132060.html

 

As with the Kenny Golladay thing:

-Matt Patricia is going into his 3rd year as the Lions HC

-The team was 9-7 (playoffs), 9-7 prior to his arrival

-6-10 in 2018, 3-12-1 last season

 

In those circumstances, coaches typically want the best chance to win or at least improve their record.  Trading your starting QB and your best WR are typically NOT the path to that chance, especially if it comes with a $32M dead cap hit ($10.7M more than keeping him) that hinders any FA signings.

 

[wppete]

Stupid move if Detroit gets rid of Stafford. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

It makes some level of sense if they're in love with Tua or Herbert. You hope you aren't picking this high again anytime soon, so you get the future of the franchise while you can. The problem is, the Lions have consistently shown that they are incapable of building a winning team, coaching worth a crap, or utilizing the decent pieces they do have. They're a joke. Does moving on from Stafford, who has definitely done more for winning than anyone else associated with that organization, actually make them a better team? I don't think he's been the problem there the past ten years. 

 

Actually, especially if you're in love with Tua or Herbert, what makes sense is to hang on to Stafford (and keep the extra cap money they'd lose in a trade).  Make sure Tua, if he's the Man, has all the time to rehab he needs and with either one, give them a "Mahomes year" on the bench.  Use the cap money to shore up your skill positions on offense (Kenny Golladay and Who?) and defense.

Next year, trading Stafford would actually save the team money, while with 2 years under contract he'd still be an attractive "get"

 

 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually, especially if you're in love with Tua or Herbert, what makes sense is to hang on to Stafford (and keep the extra cap money they'd lose in a trade).  Make sure Tua, if he's the Man, has all the time to rehab he needs and with either one, give them a "Mahomes year" on the bench.  Use the cap money to shore up your skill positions on offense (Kenny Golladay and Who?) and defense.

Next year, trading Stafford would actually save the team money, while with 2 years under contract he'd still be an attractive "get"

 

 

 

All good points. Just hope stafford has a good year and boosts his value. 

[Franco_92]

Watched that Stafford video. 

It's crazy how other teams' receivers can make plays. 

When I watch the Bills, I subconsciously decide whether or not they're going to make the catch as the camera pans to where the throw is going and I see the receiver. If the receiver is NFL open, has 2-3 yards of open field around him with no Db in that frame, and the ball is well thrown, I generally assume that 85% of the time it's a catch. If I see a DB closer than that to the receiver, my prediction drops to about 25% of a successful catch, given a good pass. 

These Lions receivers in that video are making 15 catches a game that my brain would tell me the Bills receivers have, at best, a 25% chance at.

We REALLY need receivers so we can know what Josh Allen actually is. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by arcane

[thenorthremembers]

If I am the owner there is no way in hell I allow the lame duck coach and GM to make any moves at Quarterback.  I would let them see what they can do this year with Stafford and if it continues to be a dive I would clean house next year, including Stafford.

[GoBills808]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is also a difference between a guy who is committed to winning a guy who truly knows what it takes. I think Detroit, as an organisation, has been woefully short of those people. And maybe Stafford fits into that category.

That's why they hired Patricia and Quinn. Now I don't necessarily think Patricia's a great HC imo but between the two of those guys they have like 7 SB rings w Pats. They were brought in because they do know what it takes, just don't seem able to put it together in Detroit. 

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

A rare time when I am not on board with your thought process. Stafford is one of those "just good enough" QBs and I dont see how Belichick can change his fundamentals this late in Stafford's career to win a lot. Stafford can be game planned against and BB may not be able to scheme around those limitations. 

 

As for Detroit, it totally makes sense to move on from Stafford esp from the timing perspective. If they do this correctly, they will hit a period when Rodgers is retiring, Cousins is still Cousins and Bears with a young QB. Detroit can draft a QB high, sign a vet to mentor him and hit this potential window in 2 years.  

 

I disagree with the first bit but not the second. They can't move on from him it seems for cap reasons this year but there is a logic to it otherwise. They could take Tua anyway, redshirt him and get out of Stafford's deal after next season.

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's why they hired Patricia and Quinn. Now I don't necessarily think Patricia's a great HC imo but between the two of those guys they have like 7 SB rings w Pats. They were brought in because they do know what it takes, just don't seem able to put it together in Detroit. 

 

For sure. They were trying to address their failings... but not sure they picked the right guys to do it with.

[dave mcbride]

51 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Is there a more enigmatic player in the NFL?

 

I could be wrong about him but I've just gradually developed the impression that he isn't a great competitor.

 

 I was really high on him early in his career and then I remember reading a story about him that kinda' painted him as both not a big details guy about football but a real details guy about the design aspects of his oppulent home.

 

I'm not saying he's not tough or that he isn't pretty good in 4th quarters...........but I think that you can be those things and still be a "want to win" guy rather than a "committed to win" guy.

 

Maybe a change of scenery and going to a place where he knows effort will equal results.......like NE.........would change him.    I hope to not find out.

I personally think he's very good but has simply played for a bad franchise. He's truly elevated that team at times. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I personally think he's very good but has simply played for a bad franchise. He's truly elevated that team at times. 

 

 

When you look at the great stats that's the only conclusion one can make.............but there is something missing there, IMO.

 

He has a good track record for 4th quarter comebacks too......... but I wasn't surprised at all when the Lions came into Buffalo with a great defensive gameplan for Josh Allen and still lost.    

 

I'd be surprised if a team lead by Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger........even Rivers........had come in and lost a game like that to a rookie QB..........it would be memorable..........but with Stafford it's just another W against a losing team.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s always hurt though it seems like. He seems like a great guy and everything and has a lot of talent but something just seems to be missing. 

 

The Pats* would teach him how to get away with intentional grounding and hone his simultaneous throw&duck move. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

....Bo didn’t know.....
 

 

What???? We’ve been lied to all these years??

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When you look at the great stats that's the only conclusion one can make.............but there is something missing there, IMO.

 

He has a good track record for 4th quarter comebacks too......... but I wasn't surprised at all when the Lions came into Buffalo with a great defensive gameplan for Josh Allen and still lost.    

 

I'd be surprised if a team lead by Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger........even Rivers........had come in and lost a game like that to a rookie QB..........it would be memorable..........but with Stafford it's just another W against a losing team.

The Lions lost that game late because their kicker missed a makeable FG. That's always the story with that team - they always have one or more truly gaping flaws, whether it's no credible RB, a terrible secondary, no pass rush, etc. And when I say flaw, I'm talking worst-in-the-league sort of flaw at an important position/set of positions. It's always something, and that's the curse of that franchise.  They get a truly elite player like Suh and let him walk. I mean, wtf? He was DOMINANT there, and has been excellent since he left. When he left, their excellent 2014 D (11-5 that season; robbed by Pete Morelli in the playoffs on call as bad as the NRC one) goes immediately into the tank. You think the Bills consistently make bad decisions regarding personnel and overall team building, but imagine being a Lions fan. 

 

And let's not forget their first round drafting. They did manage to get Stafford, Suh, and Calvin Johnson with top-2 selections, but when they draft outside the top two they're either taking duds or guards/centers. It's mystifying. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/draft.htm

Edited February 13, 2020 by dave mcbride

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I personally think he's very good but has simply played for a bad franchise. He's truly elevated that team at times. 

Agree on Stafford, I think he's a solid franchise type QB. I think the Lions suffer from bad luck and questionable coaching more than anything. That roster has a lot more talent than what Patricia has been able to do with it thus far. 

 

This season was Bevell's first, and he had to deal w injuries to QB1 and RB1 installing his system. I think the Lions are going to bounce back next year in a pretty big way.

[GreggTX]

We would be so much better with Stafford. Too bad he's never had the necessary talent or coaching to succeed. Imagine what a QB with a 106 passer rating could do for us! Add a couple more weapons and a couple studs on the OL and we'd be as good as any team in the NFL. I see the Lions are denying this, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true. Just don't let him go to NE.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

I honestly forgot how good Stafford was this year. In 8 games he threw for 2500 yards and 19 TDs and 8.6 yards per attempt.

 

 

 

I noticed.  I think it was 2018, Matt came into camp and he had leaned out.  No more baby fat face, he finally began taking his fitness seriously and the results showed. 

 

He's only 31.  He and Golloday are going to tear the league up next season.

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

We would be so much better with Stafford. Too bad he's never had the necessary talent or coaching to succeed. Imagine what a QB with a 106 passer rating could do for us! Add a couple more weapons and a couple studs on the OL and we'd be as good as any team in the NFL. I see the Lions are denying this, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true. Just don't let him go to NE.

 

It might be cheaper to just get Stafford's skill players.  I saw some nice plays by the WR's on the video.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

what will it cost a team to get him?   

 

$28 Million?   His dead cap # is $32,000,000 

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

It’s actually not the same as Bo Jackson situation because Bo attempted to play through the injury and that is what ended his career. Bo didn’t know his injury was severe & kept playing on it, causing irreparable damage. Tua had successful surgery in November with full recovery expected and he’s on track for that based on reports. Bo’s career ended from hip fracture/dislocation that lead to avascular necrosis. Tua only had the fracture which was immediately operated on. Again, what the public knows and what the teams know could end up being different and where he is drafted could end up revealing that. 
 

As this is starting to be discussed out there apparently the cap savings is negative due to dead cap at least this year so probably  won’t happen for $ reasons. But they probably would like to. 

 

I guess I would want to know how likely the issue is to re-occur...like is the hip permanently weakened so that its more likely to happen again?

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

There is no food for thought here.  As Bill Polian once referenced something similar to the great Jim Kelly "Josh Allen is our Quarterback, if you don't like it you could get out of town."  

 

Although you live in Tampa so that wouldn't really apply to you.   

Gordio, I didn’t say do it.  I said if you weren’t listening, hear are some points to consider, and I like Josh, but playing an Aaron Rodgers role isn’t the worst thing for him.  I think Josh should develop, but Stafford would be an immediate upgrade in this now league.  I don’t care either way, and to ask me to leave Buffalo is silly.  I guess you’re not tolerant of even the softest opposing position.  Don’t worry, no matter what you say, I will not respond to you as it is childish.  Most posters don’t make things personal.  So enjoy you’re week and have a Happy Valentine’s Day with you’re significant other.

[NewEra]

Allen and our 2nd for Stafford and Golladay?  Super bowl?

[dpberr]

Matt Patricia isn't going to do anything productive in Detroit.   They prize consistency and longevity over results.  

 

Matt Stafford isn't the problem there.  Much like every one of their vehicles except the F-150, Ford is ruthlessly consistent at making a mediocre product, hiring mediocre FO and coaching talent to ultimately shape a mediocre product.  

 

I've never seen an organization so committed to being "ok".  

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by dpberr

[BuffaloBill963]

6 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Is Tua healthy? That injury he suffered this past season looked pretty bad. I know some team will take a chance (Dolphins) on him but how healthy is he?

Wasn’t it the Bo Jackson bad/rare hip injury?

[LittleSammy]

There is another wild A$# rumor making the rounds on Detroit sports talk radio today (take it for whatever that is worth!) that the Lions are talking to the Bills and others about acquiring CB Darius Slay for a 2nd, 5th and another mid-round pick to be named later. Slay is unhappy in Detroit playing for Patricia. A top notch CB, but his contract is coming to an end and he is looking for "elite" money from the Lions. No way the Bills tie that kind of money up with him and give Tre'Davious White the money he will command/deserve.

[YoloinOhio]

42 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I guess I would want to know how likely the issue is to re-occur...like is the hip permanently weakened so that its more likely to happen again?

The teams will get all that in the next month. Not sure how much of it will be leaked. a big concern with him injury wise is he has two glass ankles 

Edited February 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Avascular Necrosis. "Death of tissue" due to a loss of blood supply. I haven't seen any mention that Tua had a hip replacement, as Bo Jackson did. If that was the case, Tua can forget about an NFL career, period.

He didn’t. Tua had a hip fracture that was repaired. It was not the same injury Bo had, which was not only a dislocation in addition to a fracture but something he played with instead of having surgery which led to the AVN.

Edited February 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, LittleSammy said:

There is another wild A$# rumor making the rounds on Detroit sports talk radio today (take it for whatever that is worth!) that the Lions are talking to the Bills and others about acquiring CB Darius Slay for a 2nd, 5th and another mid-round pick to be named later. Slay is unhappy in Detroit playing for Patricia. A top notch CB, but his contract is coming to an end and he is looking for "elite" money from the Lions. No way the Bills tie that kind of money up with him and give Tre'Davious White the money he will command/deserve.

 

People love to talk about what would work for "our team" (getting 3 draft picks for a guy who wants paid and we won't re-sign anyway) without thinking about what would work for "their team" (the trade partner).

 

Same thing when we talk about acquiring Golladay by trade with a year left on a rookie contract.  Great move for us, crap move for them.

 

 

[BillsMafia13]

I mean he’s the face of the franchise but it makes too much sense. They’re clearly never gonna win as is so send him to a good team. Would he go for 2 first rounders?  That plus tua is a start

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Not the same injury. That's what I thought. Bo's last game was against Cincy, I believe, and everyone expected him to play @ the '90 AFC Championship game in Buffalo.

 

 

Yep we thought it was all a bunch of BS..........it didn't look like a bad injury and the details about how bad it was came out long after the season............maybe not until spring training with the Royals.

[K-9]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

The Pats* would teach him how to get away with intentional grounding and hone his simultaneous throw&duck move. 

Ah, the good old chuck and duck.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Ah, the good old chuck and duck.

 

It’s not as easy as Brady makes it look! It’s all about the continuous follow thru.  Then, of course, you have to start whining if you felt a breeze due a player near you and no flag is thrown. 

[stuvian]

he's a better QB than Rivers who would immediately make the Chargers competitive

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Neither Tua or Herbert is ready to play in 2020. Best to keep Stafford, not take the dead cap hit, and let him play in 2020.

[CommonCents]

I don’t buy it, tenure dictates that Patricia needs to start winning games or he is toast.

 

They have the QB, WR and RB. Look for them to try and bolster that D and become competitive. 

 

 

[DCOrange]

Aren’t they on the hook for a ton of dead cap if they move him? Not to mention he’s still a very good QB. 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Aren’t they on the hook for a ton of dead cap if they move him? Not to mention he’s still a very good QB. 

 

Yes. He can't be moved this year. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Aren’t they on the hook for a ton of dead cap if they move him? Not to mention he’s still a very good QB. 

32 million dead cap hit.  This isn't happening.  Could it be a desperate smokescreen to get a team to trade up to #2 to take Tua so Chase Young falls to them at #3?  Possibly.  I think a team trades up with Washington for that #2 spot for Tua regardless though.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

32 million dead cap hit.  This isn't happening.  Could it be a desperate smokescreen to get a team to trade up to #2 to take Tua so Chase Young falls to them at #3?  Possibly.  I think a team trades up with Washington for that #2 spot for Tua regardless though.

Ah!  “Stragedy”, as Curly would say. ?