Bill Polian and two Sirius colleagues did not vote Lamar Jackson All-Pro

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Why is it funny? Who has come close that level of combined production?

 

Who cares about 'combined' yardage.    Which team relied on their QB more and would have no sniff of the playoffs without him?

 

A case can be made for Wilson very easily...

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Who cares about 'combined' yardage.    Which team relied on their QB more and would have no sniff of the playoffs without him?

 

A case can be made for Wilson very easily...

Oh ok then. 

[TheBrownBear]

There is no denying that Jackson has had a great season.  Having said that, he still doesn't scare me with his arm.  I absolutely would take Mahomes, Wilson, Brees and probably a couple others before Jackson in a one game scenario.  He still screams gimmick to me.  If he keeps this up for another season, I will absolutely eat crow on this, but I suspect the NFL will catch up to him in the near future.

[r00tabaga]

LJax had an unbelievable season statistically. I can see the argument that Wilson did the same with less around him. The Ravens are littered with ProBowlers and All-Pros.

 

It was 47-3....who cares

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Rockpile233 said:

There is absolutely no justification for voting Wilson over Jackson, although I never understand why anyone other than the players care about these things.

The QB still throws the football.  It's amazing how wishy washy people are.  Great player not an All-Pro QB with 3100 yards.  Those are 1990 QB numbers.  To me it had to be Wilson for the simple fact that if I had to pick my guy for 1 game it would not be Jackson.

 

9-20 143 0 0

19-28 161 1 3

An All-Pro or MVP can't have games like this.

Edited January 4, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Drew Brees like 50 times. Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Pat Mahomes just last year, to name a few.

 

4300 yards and 43 TD's? Lots of better seasons than that.

 

Not saying he doesn't deserve recognition. He does.

Might want to go check the stats of other all time greats and some of their best seasons. Jackson's season isn't anywhere close the best ever.

I don't believe any of the all time greats ran for over a thousand yards while also throwing 36 TDs.  If the stats you site only  include passing yards you are doing Jackson an injustice..

Edited January 4, 2020 by purple haze

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t hate Polian at all.  Just think he looks really bad here.  I can’t stand people who can’t admit they are wrong.  It’s a character flaw.  
 

but there are some rumors about Polian and certain things he may have done to get fired from the Bills.  But he did a great job choosing Peyton #1 overall. And then building a team that went 1-15 without him.  

Because people had strong opinions on him and can’t admit they were wrong.  It’s similar to Allen, though he wasn’t talked about switching positions after winning the Heisman. 

 

I thought he admitted he was wrong about Jackson?

1 hour ago, MJS said:

He literally did admit he was wrong about Jackson. He said that. This is all because he voted for another QB. Voting for someone else doesn't mean he is not admitting he was wrong.

Yes this, sorry just saw this after responding to another post.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy

[K-9]

I agree that Jackson is not the best QB in the league.

 

But he’s having the best season of any QB in the league. And for that, he has to be a unanimous vote on ANY All Pro team. 

[123719bwiqrb]

Polian suffers from the same disease that JA haters suffer from.  Once they make their magical GM decision, nothing can change their mind.

[formerlyofCtown]

9 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I don't believe any of the all time greats ran for over a thousand yards while also throwing 36 TDs.  If the stats you site only  include passing yards you are doing Jackson an injustice..

Well we will include those with the RBs

[dma0034]

Wilson is the Seahawks. They have no defense, barely a running game and their OLine isn't great. Lockett is their only real threat. Yet he got them 1 yard away from knocking out the 9ers for the division. Lamar showed that when he has to throw (games the Ravens got down early) that he wasn't up for it. Their Oline and Running Game created so much for the passing game it's crazy

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

Wilson is the Seahawks. They have no defense, barely a running game and their OLine isn't great. Lockett is their only real threat. Yet he got them 1 yard away from knocking out the 9ers for the division. Lamar showed that when he has to throw (games the Ravens got down early) that he wasn't up for it. Their Oline and Running Game created so much for the passing game it's crazy

What game was that? They haven't lost since September. 

[dma0034]

16 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

What game was that? They haven't lost since September. 

 

Exactly. Browns and Chiefs

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Rockpile233 said:

There is absolutely no justification for voting Wilson over Jackson, although I never understand why anyone other than the players care about these things.

I take Wilson over Jackson 

[MJS]

40 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I don't believe any of the all time greats ran for over a thousand yards while also throwing 36 TDs.  If the stats you site only  include passing yards you are doing Jackson an injustice..

Those are combined stats for Jackson that I posted.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I don’t get what the big deal is, Polian has his opinion of Lamar and he still might be right. The defenses in the playoffs this year and next year will expose Jackson. The injuries will take their toll with his style of play.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

Jackson is 19-3 as a regular season starter in the NFL.

 

How many 2nd year QB's in the history of the NFL can say that?

 

I don't know why people are quick to discredit Jackson, but he doesn't have all-world talent around him. He makes their O go. Period.

 

His play speed is as good as anyone's in the history of this game.

 

I am not going to rip Jackson until he deserves to get ripped. Everyone seems to be ripping him because of what MIGHT happen in the future. Wait till it happens.

Haven't seen much ripping of Jackson here. Hope you aren't referring to me. I specifically said he had a stellar season and deserves the MVP. What I've been arguing are those who are claiming he's the best QB in the NFL and his season was the best in NFL history. I think that's too much.

 

I also mentioned that he played really badly in the playoffs last year, which is a fact. And it will be interesting to see if the Ravens can keep it up in the playoffs this year, and I said I suspect they will be able to.

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Might want to go check the stats of other all time greats and some of their best seasons. Jackson's season isn't anywhere close the best ever.

 

Since 1970 there have been only 12 QB performances where the QB finished the year with a TD% over 8, and only 3 of those were over 9 (Ken Stabler in 1976, Peyton Manning in 2004, and Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Jackson finished the year at 8.98% - or the 4th best TD percentage since 1970. Last year his TD% was 3.4. The League average this year was 4.6.

 

It was the difference between a good year and an MVP caliber year. In terms of total production at the position, he was the best this year. I doubt he will come close to that TD% again (no QB since 1970 has finished with a career TD% over 6).

 

Personally, I believe, if you dig deep into the numbers, that Russell Wilson was the best QB this year.

[Troll Toll]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

Jackson is 19-3 as a regular season starter in the NFL.

 

How many 2nd year QB's in the history of the NFL can say that?

 

I don't know why people are quick to discredit Jackson, but he doesn't have all-world talent around him. He makes their O go. Period.

 

His play speed is as good as anyone's in the history of this game.

 

I am not going to rip Jackson until he deserves to get ripped. Everyone seems to be ripping him because of what MIGHT happen in the future. Wait till it happens.

It has a very high probability of happening. Michael Vick, Vince Young, Colin Kaepernick, and RGIII all say hi. 

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

So 1000 yards rushing is the same as 1000 yard passing? How come rb's don't run for 4000 a season?

 

So you’re saying he’s a good runningback?

 

the point is, and I assume this is what the other poster is getting at, is that the argument with Jackson is that you can’t look only at passing production. You have to look at accumulative production as that’s his whole body of work. That’s fine and i think it’s a good way to do it. But the problem is that you then have to compare accumulative production to other QB’s accumulative production. So, great season? Yes! Best dual threat season? Absolutely! Best season ever by a QB? No. 

[Bangarang]

Polian still can’t get over the fact he thought Lamar was better off as a WR in the NFL

Edited January 4, 2020 by Bangarang

[Motorin']

42 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

So you’re saying he’s a good runningback?

 

the point is, and I assume this is what the other poster is getting at, is that the argument with Jackson is that you can’t look only at passing production. You have to look at accumulative production as that’s his whole body of work. That’s fine and i think it’s a good way to do it. But the problem is that you then have to compare accumulative production to other QB’s accumulative production. So, great season? Yes! Best dual threat season? Absolutely! Best season ever by a QB? No. 

I'm not saying best season by QB. I'm not saying best season by a RB. I'm saying this might be the best single season performance ever, in the NFL, by any player at any position. I'm not saying carve this  in stone on the alter of absolute certainty, just a possibility to consider. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Motorin'

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I have no issue choosing Wilson or Brees over Jackson if you can only pick one player.  I would still vote Jackson but I wouldn’t rip guys that voted for either of the other two.  

[aristocrat]

5 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Why is it funny? Who has come close that level of combined production?

cam newton had more

[Chaos]

The best season any QB ever had was the combo of Bob Griese and Earl Morrall in 1972 . 

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I don’t get what the big deal is, Polian has his opinion of Lamar and he still might be right. The defenses in the playoffs this year and next year will expose Jackson. The injuries will take their toll with his style of play.

I don’t think it’s a big deal that Lamar wasn’t a unanimous first team All Pro, but the opinion that Lamar should play WR will never be correct. That was always indefensible but is especially so after he won an MVP as a QB. 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

I'm not saying best season by QB. I'm not saying best season by a RB. I'm saying this might be the best single season performance ever, in the NFL, by any player at any position. I'm not saying carve this  in stone on the alter of absolute certainty, just a possibility to consider. 

 

Definitely one of the most unique, so that makes sense. But I see the other guys argument!

[Inigo Montoya]

It's just sour grapes on Polian's part.  Jackson clearly had the best season of any QB in the AFC this year.  Polian is still lambasted for saying that Jackson should be a WR and is doubling down to try and save face even though it just makes him look more foolish.

 

It's the same narrative with some in the national media (PFF) who won't acknowledge they might have been wrong about Josh Allen coming out of college.  They are just doubling down to try and save face despite the evidence piling up in front of their face that they were wrong. 

[BuffaloSol]

12 hours ago, wppete said:

Honestly what is wrong with this guy??? Losing all respect for this grumpy old man.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/03/bill-polian-and-two-sirius-colleagues-did-not-vote-lamar-jackson-all-pro/

 

Bill Polian and two Sirius colleagues did not vote Lamar Jackson All-Pro

 

"Before the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson, Hall of Fame General Manager Bill Polian famously opined that Jackson should be a wide receiver, not a quarterback, in the NFL. Polian has since admitted he was wrong, but he’s not ready to admit that Jackson is the best quarterback in the NFL.

Of the 50 voters who chose the Associated Press All-Pro team, 47 chose Jackson at quarterback. One of the three who didn’t was Bill Polian.

So while Polian has admitted that Jackson is, in fact, a quarterback and not a wide receiver, he’s not ready to admit that Jackson is the best quarterback in the NFL.

Polian voted for Russell Wilson, and so did the other two voters who didn’t select Jackson. Interestingly, those other two voters were Pat Kirwan of SiriusXM and Jim Miller of SirisusXM. Polian also appears on SiriusXM. Wilson has been a guest on SiriusXM many times, and may have developed a friendly relationship with the hosts there, but that should in no way influence how those hosts cast their All-Pro votes.

To most, Jackson was an obvious choice. Then again, to most, Jackson was obviously a quarterback, and not a wide receiver, coming out of college."

He voted him in at rb, as he should./s

Edited January 4, 2020 by BuffaloSol

[Alphadawg7]

Wilson > Lamar.

 

I would vote for Wilson too.  Wilson is an Elite proven champion.  Lamar is playing in a new offense the NFL is still figuring out.  No run first QB has ever won the SB yet.

 

So I don’t see the big deal with Polian voting for the  better player.  
 

 

[BringBackOrton]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t hate Polian at all.  Just think he looks really bad here.  I can’t stand people who can’t admit they are wrong.  It’s a character flaw.  
 

but there are some rumors about Polian and certain things he may have done to get fired from the Bills.  But he did a great job choosing Peyton #1 overall. And then building a team that went 1-15 without him.  

Because people had strong opinions on him and can’t admit they were wrong.  It’s similar to Allen, though he wasn’t talked about switching positions after winning the Heisman. 

He admitted he was wrong about Jackson.

 

We all now look forward to your admission that you were wrong about Polian.

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

I'm not saying best season by QB. I'm not saying best season by a RB. I'm saying this might be the best single season performance ever, in the NFL, by any player at any position. I'm not saying carve this  in stone on the alter of absolute certainty, just a possibility to consider. 

Yeah no. Not even close.

[Bill_with_it]

9 hours ago, Motorin' said:

What game was that? They haven't lost since September. 

They were a couple of plays and bad ref calls away from a loss with us. Hes had a fine year however that team truly is a team. He doesnt have near the year without those two tes, rb, and fantastic oline. Wilson truly is a one man band lol. I think you swap qbs on the teams and no one is talking about jackson at all.

8 hours ago, Motorin' said:

I'm not saying best season by QB. I'm not saying best season by a RB. I'm saying this might be the best single season performance ever, in the NFL, by any player at any position. I'm not saying carve this  in stone on the alter of absolute certainty, just a possibility to consider. 

What oj simpson 2k year without a single offensive threat and in many fewer games says hello. 

[finn]

13 hours ago, njbuff said:

Jackson is 19-3 as a regular season starter in the NFL.

 

How many 2nd year QB's in the history of the NFL can say that?

 

I don't know why people are quick to discredit Jackson, but he doesn't have all-world talent around him. He makes their O go. Period.

 

His play speed is as good as anyone's in the history of this game.

 

I am not going to rip Jackson until he deserves to get ripped. Everyone seems to be ripping him because of what MIGHT happen in the future. Wait till it happens.

This is fair. It's just that we saw Michael Vick and RG III do much the same and receive the same hype and then fade into oblivion. Also (speaking for myself), adulation is annoying. Living in Brady country, I hear it all the time. In place of cool, objective analysis commentators try to outdo each other praising the Patriots and especially Brady. I suppose jealousy is another factor: I wouldn't mind Allen getting more love. Finally, I sincerely believe Jackson will be figured out soon. As a fan wrote on the Ravens board, the Bills made the Ravens look like they had a gimmick offense. I do think he's more gifted as a runner than Vick, RG III, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young and others, but he's nowhere near as good a passer as the top QBs in the league. Yeah, yeah, 36 tds, etc., but, as many people have pointed out, virtually all of these are based on his scrambling or fear of his scrambling. That's to his and the Ravens' credit, but it suggests that if you shut down his running, take away the middle-field throws to his tight ends and force him to throw outside, his effectiveness will diminish, maybe a lot. In the meantime, I plan to enjoy watching him embarrass defenses (besides the Bills) trying to stop him. 

[JoPoy88]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Wilson > Lamar.

 

I would vote for Wilson too.  Wilson is an Elite proven champion.  Lamar is playing in a new offense the NFL is still figuring out.  No run first QB has ever won the SB yet.

 

So I don’t see the big deal with Polian voting for the  better player.  
 

 

wilson being a proven commodity and a [PAST] champion has no impact on this season though (or at least it shouldn’t.) the numbers have already been posted. The other votes were there for Lamar. He’s the MVP for this season. You can take the long view and say Wilson is the “better player” (and i would agree with you.) But Lamar put up an MVP season and is the MVP. Freezing him out on an all-pro vote because you were proven to be an old, out-of-date geezer? That’s just petty. 
 

hey I have a soft spot for Brees and wanted him to get MVP last year. But Mahomes deserved it.

[Solomon Grundy]

If this honor is based off of this year's performance, then Lamar>Wilson. Lamar Jackson has guided his team to a 14-2 record. He's also the frontrunner for league MVP. To not vote him as All Pro is kind of ridiculous.

[dubs]

This is only a story because of Polian. I’d vote LJ too, guy was awesome, but this happens every year. 

[eball]

I think it’s ridiculous not to vote Lamar All-Pro this season, but I believe what you’re seeing with Polian and Kirwan is a bias towards what they think is or is not “sustainable.”  That shouldn’t come into play in a year-to-year vote but it has.

 

A reasonable argument may be made that this season might be an anomaly — the NFL hasn’t seen an offense designed like this in some time (if ever) but if there’s one thing that happens in the NFL it is that offensive “fads” get figured out quickly.  Lamar takes a lot of hits and it’s reasonable to suggest they will eventually take their toll.

 

I would have voted Lamar All-Pro this season but I also think it may be the only time he reaches such heights.  Everyone is going to be watching how the Ravens and Lamar perform in the playoffs...I don’t believe they’re as sure a bet as most seem to think.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

wilson being a proven commodity and a [PAST] champion has no impact on this season though (or at least it shouldn’t.) the numbers have already been posted. The other votes were there for Lamar. He’s the MVP for this season. You can take the long view and say Wilson is the “better player” (and i would agree with you.) But Lamar put up an MVP season and is the MVP. Freezing him out on an all-pro vote because you were proven to be an old, out-of-date geezer? That’s just petty. 
 

hey I have a soft spot for Brees and wanted him to get MVP last year. But Mahomes deserved it.

Wilson has had an MVP worthy season too, it goes past just “stats”.  
 

People forget what Wilson has had to over come this year too and how much he carries that Seahawks team himself.

 

Im just saying it’s not a travesty for someone to think Wilson is as deserving of the honor.  It’s not that big of a deal and puzzles me why so many people care if Polian is Lamars biggest fan or not.  
 

It’s also unfair for him to take criticism just because pre-draft he doubted Lamars ability to be a QB at the next level.  Every run first QB to ever come out of college has had the same questions, some more than others.  No run first QB has ever won anything in the NFL.  And for every Vick or Cunningham, there are dozens of others that struggle or wash out.

 

I was on the Lamar train at the draft, even started a thread called “Making the case for Lamar” at 12 rather than paying a fortune to trade up.  But lots of people here also thought he was gonna bust at QB, but no one is going around shoving it down those people’s throats.  
 

Kiper, Polian, McShay are all wrong way way more than they are right.  It’s utterly stupid to follow Polian around and harp on his wrong assessment of Lamar at the next level.  It’s just petty click bait.

 

And Wilson has been neck and neck all season with Lamar for MVP.  Not a shock Wilson has a couple people who still think he deserves accolades for his season.

 

Internet just always has to find reasons to piss and moan about.  

[KD in CA]

How appalling that people dared to have their own opinion on the matter rather than lining up to express the 'correct' answer.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Wilson has had an MVP worthy season too, it goes past just “stats”.  
 

People forget what Wilson has had to over come this year too and how much he carries that Seahawks team himself.

 

Im just saying it’s not a travesty for someone to think Wilson is as deserving of the honor.  It’s not that big of a deal and puzzles me why so many people care if Polian is Lamars biggest fan or not.  
 

It’s also unfair for him to take criticism just because pre-draft he doubted Lamars ability to be a QB at the next level.  Every run first QB to ever come out of college has had the same questions, some more than others.  No run first QB has ever won anything in the NFL.  And for every Vick or Cunningham, there are dozens of others that struggle or wash out.

 

I was on the Lamar train at the draft, even started a thread called “Making the case for Lamar” at 12 rather than paying a fortune to trade up.  But lots of people here also thought he was gonna bust at QB, but no one is going around shoving it down those people’s throats.  
 

Kiper, Polian, McShay are all wrong way way more than they are right.  It’s utterly stupid to follow Polian around and harp on his wrong assessment of Lamar at the next level.  It’s just petty click bait.

 

And Wilson has been neck and neck all season with Lamar for MVP.  Not a shock Wilson has a couple people who still think he deserves accolades for his season.

 

Internet just always has to find reasons to piss and moan about.  

 

I'd have voted for Wilson too. I think he should be the MVP though I accept Lamar will be. I personally think their play on the field was a very similar level - the narrative, the backstory and the uniqueness and newness are factors in my opinion as to why Lamar (of the two) will win it. Doesn't mean I don't think Jackson is a deserving MVP. I do. But I think Wilson is too and of the two I'd have voted for Russ. 

3 hours ago, the skycap said:

If this honor is based off of this year's performance, then Lamar>Wilson. Lamar Jackson has guided his team to a 14-2 record. He's also the frontrunner for league MVP. To not vote him as All Pro is kind of ridiculous.

 

If he had voted for anyone else I might have said that is ridiculous. Believing Wilson was the best Quarterback in the NFL this year is most definitely a legitimate view point. They will finish 1 and 2 in the MVP voting and rightly so.