Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Someone needs to advise him that returning kickoffs from the end zone when you pretty consistently can't get beyond the 25 is not a good idea. Edited December 12, 2019 by Formerly Allan in MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngjebrey Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 How about they stop dressing lee smith and keep Andre Roberts, activate duke. Problem solved 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Someone needs to advise him that returning kickoffs from the end zone when you pretty consistently can't get beyond the 25 is not a good idea. You can't take it to the house without bringing it out. I love when he brings it out. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gugny said: You can't take it to the house without bringing it out. I love when he brings it out. I do too. I'll take the occasional 40 yard start if it costs us 5 yards here and there, especially since he doesn't fumble the ball. Edited December 12, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gugny said: You can't take it to the house without bringing it out. I love when he brings it out. Yep, I’d rather risk a few yards in starting field position for the chance to break off a big one. The risk/reward is definitely worth it. Edited December 12, 2019 by MDH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, MDH said: Yep, I’d rather risk a few yards in starting field position for the chance to break off a big one. The risk/reward is defiantly worth it. Note how this thread started after playing the Ravens - a team coached by a former ST coach who have traditionally had great STs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Gugny said: You can't take it to the house without bringing it out. I love when he brings it out. Yea there's not a massive difference between the 22 or 23 yard line and the 25. I'd even argue there's not much of a difference between the 20 and 25. By bringing it out it also forces the kicking team to cover and show they can cover the kick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea there's not a massive difference between the 22 or 23 yard line and the 25. I'd even argue there's not much of a difference between the 20 and 25. By bringing it out it also forces the kicking team to cover and show they can cover the kick. I generally agree, but bringing it out also leads to those damn "half the distance to the goal" penalties. Which seem to happen all the time on returns, and those really back you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, SWATeam said: I generally agree, but bringing it out also leads to those damn "half the distance to the goal" penalties. Which seem to happen all the time on returns, and those really back you up. The Bills have only had 7 ST penalties this year tho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Is this a "Why wasn't Duke Williams active?" thread in disguise? 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:17 PM, StHustle said: You have any evidence pointing to this or just some unsubstantiated opinion of yours? Well, it may be similarly as unsubstantiated as the opinions of those who think Duke is a world beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Andre deserves a spot on the active roster just for his great hands & sound decision making back there on punt & kickoff returns. Been a fan since 1970 & seem to have spent most years holding my breath every kick, hoping that there wouldn't be some bone-headed play or devastating turnover back there . It is a pleasure to not be dreading some disastrous, game killing mistake every kick return. I can live with the periodic failures to make it out to at least the 25 yard line on kickoffs - just for the peace of mind he provides back there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:18 PM, LABILLBACKER said: Andre has been a surprising disappointment. He hasn't busted 1 good kickoff or punt return all season. But our punt and kickoff block coverage might be the worst in the league. Farwell is actually worse than Crossman. No TD returns but he has had a 60 plus harder and a few other good returns. My eyes see a guy who runs hard but has yet to have a clear field to really turn it on. Personally, I like Roberts. Shore up the rest of the unit then he'll really shine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:11 PM, TPS said: Something I've been thinking about and today confirms it for me. The Bill's return game isn't good enough to waste a spot dressing Roberts. I believe they'd be better off dressing Duke. Duke doesn't bring anything to WR corps that's unique except he has some size. Doesn't gain separation vs Outside CBs. He like Andre would be 4th or 5th WR. Duke can't play STs, can't get deep, can't run jet sweep or Reverse. McKenzie and Foster bring speed advantage and Foster is a gunner on STs. Think that is the reason we see him over Duke. Andre is a returner other teams fear btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:18 PM, skibum said: Seriously? He was one of the only non-Defensive Bills to do his job competently all day today. He caught all the balls that came to him, for example. The days of Devin Hester are long gone - big returns just don't happen much anymore. Steelers rook had a nice one last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dopey said: Is this a "Why wasn't Duke Williams active?" thread in disguise? a misdirection play so to speak. And not a very good one at that. Edited December 12, 2019 by cba fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 The option would be Hyde and I’d rather not risk him on a phone by return. McKenzie was the other option and he had the dropsies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Someone needs to advise him that returning kickoffs from the end zone when you pretty consistently can't get beyond the 25 is not a good idea. He's just getting warmed up for the playoffs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Someone needs to advise him that returning kickoffs from the end zone when you pretty consistently can't get beyond the 25 is not a good idea. you do realize the coaches give him the green light to take those kickoffs out right? Edited December 13, 2019 by JoPoy88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:13 PM, Kiva said: I agee, why did we sign him? He is constantly not making it to the twenty and costing us yards. He’s not fast. Duke doesn’t have the skill to turn into anything special. I think they are both gone next year. He is very fast. he is a pro bowler btw where is his blocking your and idiot : ) On 12/8/2019 at 5:14 PM, Lurker said: Agreed. He's lost his speed. Nothing left in the tank... trade him for a 4th while we still can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 6:15 PM, billsfan_34 said: He has no speed and was epically bad today is epically a word ? 11 hours ago, Gugny said: You can't take it to the house without bringing it out. I love when he brings it out. you pervert .. : D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiva Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 He has lost a step or two. He is just slow. Take the touchback and stop showing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said: is epically a word ? you pervert .. : D In my world it is ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) On 12/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, TPS said: Something I've been thinking about and today confirms it for me. The Bill's return game isn't good enough to waste a spot dressing Roberts. I believe they'd be better off dressing Duke. Seriously? Man, that is a bad take. He's third in the league in yards per kickoff return, and 9th on punts. He's dangerous and he's having a good year for us. 10 hours ago, Dopey said: Is this a "Why wasn't Duke Williams active?" thread in disguise? Apparently so. No other reason for its existence. Edited December 13, 2019 by Thurman#1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Wait, didnt he have 66 and 76 yard returns in back to back games for us this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 he is ranked 3rd in league in ave yards per kick return https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=KR&sort=kravg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 7 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: In my world it is ? : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Andre Roberts is well worth having someone with sure hands on KR and PR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Idk if Duke is good enough to sacrifice the kick returner, but it's definitely something I'd be thinking about. Roberts has been good in the return game this year; unfortunately, being good in the return game is effectively worthless. According to Football Outsiders, his return skills (which have been among the best in the league this year) is good for roughly 5 points above the average team (0.36 points per game). Compare this to Baltimore, who literally just let all the punts hit the ground and roll against us; we're getting 5 more points over the course of the season than they are out of the return game. As the OP mentioned, playing a guy purely for their return skills is just a waste of a roster spot at this point; it would be like using a roster spot on a kickoff specialist. Duke might be worthless too, but I think it's absolutely worth thinking about if perhaps Duke's ability to make contested catches could provide more than a fraction of a point per game for us. Edited December 13, 2019 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 10:43 PM, RyanC883 said: yep. and ke kept taking it out of the endzone and getting tackled before the 25. just boneheaded. In past games he has taken it out of the endzone and normally gets past the 25. Baltimore was the first game where it wasn't working. I normally hate when kick returners run it out of the endzone but for Roberts I make an exception. The risk of him getting tackled at the 20 is worth the potential reward of getting close to midfield or even scoring a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: In past games he has taken it out of the endzone and normally gets past the 25. Baltimore was the first game where it wasn't working. I normally hate when kick returners run it out of the endzone but for Roberts I make an exception. The risk of him getting tackled at the 20 is worth the potential reward of getting close to midfield or even scoring a TD. We also need to keep in mind it is a Coaches decision right ? If you see these keys Andre? Bring it out. No Coach says hey?Do what you feel is best. One of the best returners we have had in years, and thank gosh Hyde is not at risk any longer for injury cuz ST BS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Reactionary. Jon Harbaugh was a Special Teams coach for his NFL coaching career before becoming head coach of Baltimore. They have buttoned up coverage units. I thought Buffalo was too aggressive in their Kickoff returns. Roberts is a block away from breaking some of these returns. He pulls that off in a big game in a big spot it all makes sense. For those wanting Williams... Jimmy Smith erases him from existing Sunday. Atleast Roberts adds to teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Roberts leads the NFL in punt return average (minimum of 20 attempts). Roberts is 3rd in kick returns (minimum 10 attempts) and would be better off letting the kicks go into the end zone go for touchbacks. Roberts has great hands for catching punts in the windy weather. Great signing, not a bust at all. Not sure where the all the shade is coming from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 How quickly people forget just how horrid the return game was last season. Roberts might not be a game breaking returner but he is super reliable and on punts in particular always gets those 8-10 yard returns that add up to help the field position game. I think he is a quality reliable returner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 22 hours ago, Da webster guy said: Wait, didnt he have 66 and 76 yard returns in back to back games for us this year? I don't see your point- if he is not returning them all for 6 what is the point! ? 2 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said: Roberts leads the NFL in punt return average (minimum of 20 attempts). Roberts is 3rd in kick returns (minimum 10 attempts) and would be better off letting the kicks go into the end zone go for touchbacks. Roberts has great hands for catching punts in the windy weather. Great signing, not a bust at all. Not sure where the all the shade is coming from. It is coming from short term memory issues. If he does not make great returns most of the time people rip him. I think he is a definite improvement over last year and usually touches the ball 6-8 times a game which makes him worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, papazoid said: he is ranked 3rd in league in ave yards per kick return https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=KR&sort=kravg THIS!!! I had to comb through five pages to see if someone would point this out. Thank God someone did! Someone honestly made a thread positing that the #3 KICK RETURNER IN THE NFL THIS YEAR is a "wasted roster spot". It got five pages of replies. I am speechless. I am without speech. Edited December 14, 2019 by Logic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Roberts is a God-send. On punts, he almost always makes the correct decision to catch the ball and I NEVER worry he will muff or fumble. Those skills alone are worthy of the roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 12 hours ago, billsfan89 said: How quickly people forget just how horrid the return game was last season. Roberts might not be a game breaking returner but he is super reliable and on punts in particular always gets those 8-10 yard returns that add up to help the field position game. I think he is a quality reliable returner. I think most would agree he’s a good returner. Where we differ is that being a good returner still isn’t valuable in today’s NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 There’s others on the roster the OP could have made the same point about. So.....zero points for starting another (backdoor) “Why Isn’t Duke Active?” thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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