Status of AFC: Should Bills Go All In For 2019?

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No stupid short term moves - which means no to Trent Williams and no to AJ Green. If Diggs came loose at a sensible price I would do that one but the Bills just have to stay the course. We should not be building a one hit wonder. Let's build this to be good for a 5, 6, 7 year run.

 

I am a fan of this post. 

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, dma0034 said:

This is a learning year. Next year they'll be contenders. I fully expect them to lose to the Chiefs or Patriots in the playoffs close and come back and dominate next year

With this defense, if the Bills can avg 24 pts the rest of the way, they can beat the Patriots and Chiefs. They have a SB quality defense. A bonafide #1 receiving threat and consistent running threat and I don't see anybody beating them. Hypothetically speaking, if they were to some how add a Julio Jones to this receiving corp they would be a top contender. Wishful thinking though.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think Diggs would make a difference to this team, dynamic playmaker with speed.

 

My question- What are we waiting for? 

 

I have not given up on winning the division. The key is to keep improving.

[RochesterRob]

  Most probable to me is signing a couple of other teams' practice squad guys that our front office has had an eye on for a while.  Unload somebody like Jones and injury settlement somebody like Kroft to make room.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RochesterRob

[T master]

10 hours ago, dma0034 said:

This is a learning year. Next year they'll be contenders. I fully expect them to lose to the Chiefs or Patriots in the playoffs close and come back and dominate next year

 

I believe this could happen ! I think the Bills learned from the Pats game & will play them even tougher next time & believe they will be in the hunt this year but Josh is still making some rookie decisions & next year he could be even better given the experiences !

 

I believe with bringing Duke up the WR room just got a lot better & they could package some other players in a trade to up grade even more in that room but i wouldn't want the Bills to alienate any of the guys that are here by doing so & they definitely don't need a diva at any position on the team.

 

Is Diggs a diva ? Don't know enough about him to say but is this action due to the AB syndrome ? If they would trade for him & he doesn't get the ball as much as he would like would he pulls the same stuff here after getting a bigger contract & do the same thing AB did ?

 

Those are all things that need to be looked at before getting this guy in here because i don't care how great of a player AB is he ain't worth the BS you have to go through to keep him happy to much ***** for a nickel !! Just saying .

 

That being said i would rather gain picks by some trades & build through the draft & get some young players on decent contracts that can do as well or better & i'm sure Beane & company have got their eyes on some more up & coming players that will be there in next years draft that will help ...

[Chuck Wagon]

I don't consider a trade for a guy like Diggs (25 years old, would be on a pretty nice contract after the trade) to be a "all in" move.

[Boatdrinks]

6 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

This team should model itself after the Patriots.  The Patriots are all about sustainability.  They would never make a bad trade to to achieve a short term gain.  That doesnt mean you can't make a trade.  You just can't mortgage the future on rentals when you wont be getting compensatory picks when they leave.  We will sign too many players next off season to get compensated.  

You can’t model yourself after a one in a hundred bazillion fluke like the Pats*. Their model works because of Brady , and that’s about it. The Bills have cap room to add good players and can certainly make a trade or two. I don’t see Beane spending picks like a drunken sailor or straining their cap. 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I do not see Beane and McDerrmott handling the team this way.  What is key is the continued maturation of Josh Allen and then the general health of the team.  They have lost Horrible Harry so far but have otherwise been somewhat OK on the injury front.  

 

I do.  At a similar juncture in the 2017 season Coach McDermott started telling the players we had a real shot for playoffs.  Then they traded for KB to strengthen their chances.  Whether you liked KB or not is immaterial. they made the move to improve playoff chances.

 

This is year is similar but we're better and the rest of the AFC is weak expect for a couple of teams.  We should go for it.  We could make some serious noise in this year and even a playoff win.  We're 4-1.  Only one team has give up less points than us in AFC.  A lot of teams are playing scrubs at QB.   The table is set.  We need to take advantage.  Josh can maturate and win at the same time.  A top notch WR could help increase that.

 

I'm not saying sell the ranch and be like George Allen's over the hill gang, but if you could get AJ for Zay and a third go for it I say.

 

The days of putting off winning are over.  It's time to win. Do what it takes.  Next year we could be a little better and think it's time only to have the rest of the conference be better.  Strike while the iron is hot.

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Adding a WR halfway through the season isn’t a guarantee it will even work out.  Takes a while to get into the offense.  I’d imagine they will stand par on their roster now or just tweak the bottom half of it some.  

All I need the new receiver to do is to get deep and win your matchup. 

[mjt328]

7 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

This team should model itself after the Patriots.  The Patriots are all about sustainability.  They would never make a bad trade to to achieve a short term gain.  That doesnt mean you can't make a trade.  You just can't mortgage the future on rentals when you wont be getting compensatory picks when they leave.  We will sign too many players next off season to get compensated.  

 

My thoughts exactly.

Once a team gets deep into the playoffs, opponents are very good and games are a 50-50 shot.  The best strategy for winning a Super Bowl is consistency and sustainability.  Not mortgaging your future for ONE chance at a championship.  

 

Draft 3-4 good NFL starters every single year.  Don't overburden the salary cap with stupid contracts.  Build a team with strong depth that can weather injuries, and replace free agents who leave for more money.  

 

The goal should be to win 11+ games every season.  Do that, and you are bound to get some first-round byes.  String together some good playoff games, and chances are you will win it at least once.

[Lurker]

I'm thinking they're still one more good off-season away.   

 

They remind me of the 1989 Bills team that was leaning how to win and putting together the foundation of those glory years teams...

[The Frankish Reich]

10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I do.  At a similar juncture in the 2017 season Coach McDermott started telling the players we had a real shot for playoffs.  Then they traded for KB to strengthen their chances.  Whether you liked KB or not is immaterial. they made the move to improve playoff chances.

And then 3 weeks later he decided to bench Tyrod for Nathan Peterman!

In retrospect I actually get that now. In baseball Billy Beane has made seemingly conflicting moves like that. The A’s are out of contention, and then he traded for a veteran who’s signed for the next year too. Grab value whenever and wherever you find it. (Not that KB was “value” but really, how could they know he’d be THAT bad?). So if it’s acquiring an expiring contract because “this is the year to go for it,” I hate it. But if it’s getting a good deal on a player who may also make you better next year or the year after that? Sure. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No stupid short term moves - which means no to Trent Williams and no to AJ Green. If Diggs came loose at a sensible price I would do that one but the Bills just have to stay the course. We should not be building a one hit wonder. Let's build this to be good for a 5, 6, 7 year run.

 

 

Doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

If you want to win long term you need a good offense...........even the greatest defense of this generation(the Seahawks aka youngest team in football when the won the SB) could only sustain that level for about 4 seasons.   So it's going to be a juggling act keeping this team competitive.

 

UNLESS you make Allen GREAT.

 

Which is why you want to get him great weapons ASAP.

 

This year is a window.........sweet schedule.......defense at it's peak.........Pats OL a mess........Chiefs defense is a joke.......NFC is wide open with no great team.

 

It's before your time but Polian took a shot trading for Pro Bowl safety Leonard Smith........who greatly helped.........and that didn't hurt them long term.

 

After that unfortunately Polian got a bit too huggy with his draft picks though and it cost him.

 

One thing you will find is that as your roster gets better you often stop drafting as efficiently because BPA and NEED stop being the same thing.

 

That happened with Polian.

 

He also dropped the ball by not making a move for Charles Haley(an OBVIOUS fit and need and not getting him helped a burgeoning rival) and addressing FS or NT with better players and as a result they never won a SB despite a large window.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, I say try to get McCaffrey and Kuechly as well as Kupp or Thielen

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, CSBill said:

I would never trade for a Running Back, remember, we let one of the all-time greats walk before the season started. Why? Because the ROI for backs is never high, there are serviceable people out there on Practice Squads and even street free agents. Either can be had relatively cheaply.

 

If you could get him for a 3rd, would it be worth it, worst case he's a rental for the year, let him go then, wouldn't the Bills get a 3rd back for him as a comp pick?  Unless they signed another 1st rounder FA, then it offsets??

[DCBongo]

I look at this year kind of like 1988 was.  If we can skip the bickering Bills of 1989 and have 2020 be 1990, I would be happy.

[papazoid]

short answer is NO

 

all moves must be made balancing short and long term needs

[Don Otreply]

The team as a whole better be all in already! The championship is the end goal for any team that’s worth a sh_t  imo, adding a player or two will not likely change our chances more than our QB doing better every game. We go where Josh Allen goes, it really is that simple.

 

I am not against signing players, if they are the right players. I’ll trust the Beane to do the right thing, remember it’s about Sustained success, not one year and back to the bottom of the heap, keep that in mind.

 

Go Bills!!!

[njbuff]

35 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm thinking they're still one more good off-season away.   

 

They remind me of the 1989 Bills team that was leaning how to win and putting together the foundation of those glory years teams...

 

1988 was the year they had the foundation in place and easily could have won the SB if they weren't so conservative on offense.

 

1989 was a major disappointment at 9-7, hence the "Bickering Bills".

[berg1029]

My initial reaction:  no, no effing way

 

However...if by go "all in" you mean trade a mid round pick for AJ Green or Trent Williams  .. I would definitely consider it if I was in Beane's place.  I doubt they can be had for that price, but you never know.  I wouldn't consider making a trade like that going "all in", but it would definitely put us into "win now" mode.  Anything higher than a 3rd is a hard no for me.  Even a 3rd I'm hesitant to trade.. look at how our two third round picks are doing this year (Knox and Singletary)!  

[reddogblitz]

30 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And then 3 weeks later he decided to bench Tyrod for Nathan Peterman!

In retrospect I actually get that now. In baseball Billy Beane has made seemingly conflicting moves like that. The A’s are out of contention, and then he traded for a veteran who’s signed for the next year too. Grab value whenever and wherever you find it. (Not that KB was “value” but really, how could they know he’d be THAT bad?). So if it’s acquiring an expiring contract because “this is the year to go for it,” I hate it. But if it’s getting a good deal on a player who may also make you better next year or the year after that? Sure. 

 

I don't understand why so many TBDers have this attitude of we don't wanna do too much now because really, it's in 2021 we will be good enough to compete or whatever.  Why are you so concerned about 2021?  We're strong and pretty much the rest of the AFC is weak. We even almost beat the Patsies** and should have. We're ready to compete RIGHT NOW.  if we can improve our chances without a big investment even if it only helps us THIS YEAR is worth it IMHO.  And, if we do compete and say win a playoff game that will improve our chances of getting better FAs next year.

 

If the rest of the AFC weren't weak and we hadn't shoulda woulda coulda beat the Patsies** I'd agree with you.

 

You can never count on what next year brings.  I remember in the late 1990s we thought we were close to being back with a dominant D only to have another team in our division come out of nowhere and dominate.  

 

The table is set.  THIS is our year.  Go for it.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'm tried of waiting til next year.  Just win.

[Coach Tuesday]

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

If you want to win long term you need a good offense...........even the greatest defense of this generation(the Seahawks aka youngest team in football when the won the SB) could only sustain that level for about 4 seasons.   So it's going to be a juggling act keeping this team competitive.

 

UNLESS you make Allen GREAT.

 

Which is why you want to get him great weapons ASAP.

 

This year is a window.........sweet schedule.......defense at it's peak.........Pats OL a mess........Chiefs defense is a joke.......NFC is wide open with no great team.

 

It's before your time but Polian took a shot trading for Pro Bowl safety Leonard Smith........who greatly helped.........and that didn't hurt them long term.

 

After that unfortunately Polian got a bit too huggy with his draft picks though and it cost him.

 

One thing you will find is that as your roster gets better you often stop drafting as efficiently because BPA and NEED stop being the same thing.

 

That happened with Polian.

 

He also dropped the ball by not making a move for Charles Haley(an OBVIOUS fit and need and not getting him helped a burgeoning rival) and addressing FS or NT with better players and as a result they never won a SB despite a large window.

 

 

Which is why, if a big-bodied WR or, preferably, a stud TE became available, I'd make that move NOW.  Allen is right on the cusp - but you can tell that he's chasing a bit, in part because he feels he needs to win games himself, in part because he doesn't have someone he can rely on to get open on every single play.  (Side note, Beasley, who is the closest thing to a security blanket, was double- and triple-covered on third downs yesterday.)  The tight ends on the roster have taken turns dropping critical passes all season, including Knox whom I love but who looks to be a year away from being a consistent contributor.

 

Go get him a Kyle Rudolph type and watch him relax a bit, then you'll see growth.

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

If you want to win long term you need a good offense...........even the greatest defense of this generation(the Seahawks aka youngest team in football when the won the SB) could only sustain that level for about 4 seasons.   So it's going to be a juggling act keeping this team competitive.

 

UNLESS you make Allen GREAT.

 

Which is why you want to get him great weapons ASAP.

 

This year is a window.........sweet schedule.......defense at it's peak.........Pats OL a mess........Chiefs defense is a joke.......NFC is wide open with no great team.

 

It's before your time but Polian took a shot trading for Pro Bowl safety Leonard Smith........who greatly helped.........and that didn't hurt them long term.

 

After that unfortunately Polian got a bit too huggy with his draft picks though and it cost him.

 

One thing you will find is that as your roster gets better you often stop drafting as efficiently because BPA and NEED stop being the same thing.

 

That happened with Polian.

 

He also dropped the ball by not making a move for Charles Haley(an OBVIOUS fit and need and not getting him helped a burgeoning rival) and addressing FS or NT with better players and as a result they never won a SB despite a large window.

 

 

Guys whose bodies are failing like Williams and Green don't even help short term.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, dma0034 said:

This is a learning year. Next year they'll be contenders. I fully expect them to lose to the Chiefs or Patriots in the playoffs close and come back and dominate next year

I agree, we're probably not winning the afce this year. This was always going to be year 2 for Josh's learning curve & growing pains. Next year is when we explode. Draft a pass rushing DE (1), good wr (2) and find another Singletary (3)....

 

[Happy]

This isn't the year the Bills go far into the playoffs, let alone SB.

On offense, a RB, WR1, and OT are all needs.  Plus most of the players are new this year, so they still need to gel.

Defense is in much better shape, but can use a DE/edge rusher.

Next year is when they make some noise.

 

[MJS]

Impact players aren't usually available for trade mid season in the NFL, and if they are they come with big asterisks. This isn't the NHL.

[The Frankish Reich]

The NFL competitive balance is weird right now. Look at, say, fivethirtyeight’s ELO rankings:  the top 2 teams are in the AFC (Pats/Chiefs) then there’s a run of 6 NFC teams in a row, then the Texans, then a bunched together group including the Chargers, Ravens, Bills, Colts, Titans, Browns, etc. you could even talk me into putting the Jags,

Raiders, Broncos in there. Bottom line: chances for the Bills as a wild card to make it to the AFC championship (much less the Super Bowl) are slim. Not the year to mortgage the future for ....

[The Jokeman]

11 hours ago, rayray808 said:

if itʻs a steal deal... yes, make moves

 

but we are not desperate...

 

moves I would make if we are talking about dangling a first round pick:

 

1) Von Miller - would make our defense LIGHTS OUT

2) Stephon Diggs - a true WR1... brown goes to 2, beasley at slot, Duke at the 3

3) Melvin Gordon - yes we have Singletary but this dude would be the perfect compliment to Gore

There's this thing called the salary cap which prevents getting all these guys. 

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

Next year we have brutal schedule, like the complete opposite of this year. I know many things will change between now and then, but now it is quite safe to say that if we dominate THAT schedule we are top SB contenders.

 

To save your time guys:

 

Home: Kansas, LA Chargers, Seattle, LA Rams, Cleveland/Baltimore instead of Cincinnati, Baltimore, Washington, Philadelphia, Denver 

Away: Oakland, Denver, SF, Arizona, Houston/Indy instead of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas, NY Giants and Tennessee.

 

Road games look similar, but home games are like day and night, if we get Ravens both times all 4 games next year may be tougher than Philly this year. Miami can only get better, Jets probably too. We have like 7-8 relatively easy games this year, and there might be 3-4 like that next year.

 

Anyway, to the OP, I am against any short term moves for costly resources at all. Just keep building team through draft, sign our own do reasonable contracts and try to add quality in FA.

 

You make a very good point.   That schedule right now looks very, very tough.   They could actually be a better team and maybe have fewer wins than this year.   

 

Still, it feels like it's too soon to go "all in," so 2020 will be very interesting... 

[TheFunPolice]

KC is a soft one dimensional team with no defense and imo a bunch of head cases about big games and pressure

 

Other than NE there isn't an AFC team I wouldn't like our chances against

 

 

[Mat68]

Yes, the remaining schedule is laying out perfectly.  There is no reason why Buffalo cant win 10 plus games.  If they can beat NE they have an outside shot at the Division.  I would trade for an impact player on offense or defense.  

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree, we're probably not winning the afce this year. This was always going to be year 2 for Josh's learning curve & growing pains. Next year is when we explode. Draft a pass rushing DE (1), good wr (2) and find another Singletary (3)....

 

This is why we don't win. Be bolder. If we get to 7-1 go for 15-1. Not settle for "we can be a wild card at 11-5 and maybe win a game" mode.

We as Bills/Sabres fans always feel like there needs to be a linear winning progression. There isn't. Ask the Philly Eagles. They went from 7-9 to winning a Super bowl.. I am not saying we will win the Super Bowl. I am saying every year we make Brady not win one and Brady feel farther from the top of the heap makes it easier for him to want to retire and for us to get to the top of that heap. Be bold and not just play for wild cards !!! You can be bold without giving away a bunch of picks. New England makes trades all the time and still comes out with a ton of picks. Just don't mess with round 1 and we can do just about anything else. This team has depth and money. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Locomark

[WideNine]

Duke seemed really humble, appreciative and committed to working and keeping the life habits that have helped him both get, and embrace the chance he has to live up to his potential.

 

I am rooting for him as a person and as a fan of the way he plays the game.

Edited October 7, 2019 by WideNine

[SWATeam]

Make a move.

 

We have a championship D.  And the stars are aligning- with our schedule and the general state of the AFC.  Opportunity is knocking.

 

Lets Go.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Of those that seem plausibly on the market, I’d entertain Diggs or Sanders.

 

AJG is no longer a value. Devante Parker on the phins night bevworth a look? 

 

 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

to This isn't the year the Bills go far into the playoffs, let alone SB.

On offense, a RB, WR1, and OT are all needs.  Plus most of the players are new this year, so they still need to gel.

Defense is in much better shape, but can use a DE/edge rusher.

Next year is when they make some noise.

 

 

With that attitude you certainly won't.

 

I disagree because you never know what tomorrow will bring.  We have no idea what will happen between now and then.  What if say we get it all together are going to really go for it and then in the 2nd pre season game Wonder Boy gets a season ending injury.  Or what if we have a good year and Daboll and Frazier get HC jobs elsewhere and we're starting off with 2 new coordinators.  Or what if Coach McDermott decides to take the HC job at Auburn?  We were there at the end of 2014 thinking we pretty much had arrived only to have our HC quit the day after the season.

 

You never have the perfect team.

 

We got darn good team now.  Let's make a run at this thing right here right now.

Edited October 7, 2019 by reddogblitz

[Magox]

Beane has shown that he is not afraid to roll the dice.  He's had some moves that have worked and others not so much, thankfully the good have been more plentiful than the bad.   

 

The moves they make should be made all within the construct of what they believe fits in their mid to long-term views.    

 

Beane will look at all positions, even the positions that we believe are rock solid because they are constantly looking to upgrade every roster spot, even if that means for higher quality depth.  The Bates trade is a perfect example of that, this was an under the radar trade that helped contribute to the victory vs. the Titans.

 

But if we are talking about splashy sort of moves, the areas of most need are:

 

D - Lineman -  Pass rushing specialist

Offensive tackle - At this stage I am not convinced Ford is a tackle and is better suited as a guard.  Nseke is pretty good but he's getting up there in age.

Wide Receiver - If Foster can regain his form and Duke Williams can continue his ascent then we may be set at the WR spot.  But those are two big IF's that won't be fully answered for at least another month or two.

 

 

[Happy]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

With that attitude you certainly won't.

 

I disagree because you never know what tomorrow will bring.  We have no idea what will happen between now and then.  What if say we get it all together are going to really go for it and then in the 2nd pre season game Wonder Boy gets a season ending injury.  Or what if we have a good year and Daboll and Frazier get HC jobs elsewhere and we're starting off with 2 new coordinators.  Or what if Coach McDermott decides to take the HC job at Auburn?  We were there at the end of 2014 thinking we pretty much had arrived only have our HC quit the day after the season.

 

You never have the perfect team.

 

We got darn good team now.  Let's make a run at this thing right here right now.

 

What if the sky falls?  What if pigs fly?  Most of your scenarios have about a 0% chance of happening.  The one that could happen is injuries; Josh could get a season ending injury against Miami in two weeks.  It is a risk you take.

 

We do have a good team (not elite...yet) and I agree that you never have a perfect team since that does not exist.  Right now we're still an OT, RB, and WR1 away on offense.  Plus most of the current starters on offense are in the first year in Buffalo, including the rebuilt line.  These guys need to gel a little bit more.  Josh also needs more time to develop, he's not quite there yet; that is evident just by watching the games.  Defensively, we're close and probably need a DE/edge rusher.

 

Next year is a lot more realistic to expect a deep run in the playoffs.

[dous21]

if anything the AFC looks very tough this season

 

 

Colts, Ravens, Raiders, Texans, Browns, Jags, and maybe the Titans and Chargers all will be fighting for essentially 4 playoff spots with us. 

[reddogblitz]

21 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

What if the sky falls?  What if pigs fly?  Most of your scenarios have about a 0% chance of happening.  The one that could happen is injuries; Josh could get a season ending injury against Miami in two weeks.  It is a risk you take.

 

We do have a good team (not elite...yet) and I agree that you never have a perfect team since that does not exist.  Right now we're still an OT, RB, and WR1 away on offense.  Plus most of the current starters on offense are in the first year in Buffalo, including the rebuilt line.  These guys need to gel a little bit more.  Josh also needs more time to develop, he's not quite there yet; that is evident just by watching the games.  Defensively, we're close and probably need a DE/edge rusher.

 

Next year is a lot more realistic to expect a deep run in the playoffs.

 

yeah, and next year we play the AFC West, ie KC and an improved Raiders team and the Chargers and the NFC West, ie Seattle, Rams, and 49ers.  This year we got a slumping AFC North and except for maybe Dallas and Philly, a bad NFC East.

 

Timing is everything.

 

There is no time like the present. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by reddogblitz