PFF really hates Josh Allen

[EasternOHBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, H2o said:

I took him with the 2nd to last selection in my keeper league and in the later rounds of a random yearly league as well. Feeling pretty good about that right now as I already had Dalvin Cook and Saquon Barkley in my keeper league. He can easily slide into that flex option on a weekly basis. 

 

I not only drafted Singletary, but I drafted Hockenson too! I draft a rookie every year when I can, and it looks as if BOTH are going to be in my lineup every week. They both are absolute beasts!

[PlayoffsPlease]

38 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

 

No comment on Singletary or the Defense, just hate on Josh Allen in both segments. 

 

Buffalo

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

Lets hope Mr. Daboll is not a ghost writer for pff.

[HappyDays]

Let's see how objective they are. Here's what they had to say about the Browns and Jets:

 

Quote

 

What I think is real: The Browns line is going to be a problem. Baker Mayfield was sacked three times over his last seven games of 2018, then was sacked five times Sunday. The Browns’ offense should be fine overall, but the line is going to need some work.

What I don’t: Everything but the offensive line. Mayfield had an awful game, Nick Chubb and Odell Beckham Jr. had meh outings, there was nothing that indicates the Browns are going to be a stud team in 2019. But the team is better than this

 

 

Quote

 

What I think is real: After spending all preseason telling us Le’Veon Bell would not be a full-time back and we’d be seeing plenty of Ty Montgomery, Bell ended up playing all of the Jets’ offensive snaps. He had 17 carries and 9 targets. Meanwhile, Montgomery had two carries and no targets. We have a bell cow.

What I don’t: Jamison Crowder had 14 receptions on 17 targets. For 99 yards. He’s a patented underneath option, so he’s never going to be a massive yards-per-reception or yards-per-target guy, but if he continues getting that sort of target load (and he should), his yardage will skyrocket.

 

 

So Mayfield just had one awful game, but the offensive line was the real problem and the Browns offense will be better than that in the future. And Darnold gets no mention at all.

 

Moving right along...

Edited September 9, 2019 by HappyDays

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

 

No comment on Singletary or the Defense, just hate on Josh Allen in both segments. 

 

Buffalo

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

 

Translation: He didn't watch the game.

 

18 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I stopped at PFF.

 

 

Smart man

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He didn't watch the game.

 

Smart man

 

It's a longstanding policy that I will never put credence into anyone or any organization that uses made-up statistics that use equations that no one truly understands.

 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He didn't watch the game.

To be fair, if you weren't a Bills or Jets fan would you have watched this game instead of watching KC throw the ball all over the park? 

[PetermansRedemption]

41 minutes ago, jimmy10 said:

One way to guarantee clicks and eyeballs is to talk smack about the Bills and wait for the passionate fan base to show up. 

I don’t click the article at all. Just read the synopsis that gets posted. No need to give such lazy reporting clicks. 

[bigK14094]

Allen has a lot to work on, but, progress is being made.  Lets keep our money in the game on Josh.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

To be fair, if you weren't a Bills or Jets fan would you have watched this game instead of watching KC throw the ball all over the park? 

 

Ha.  Actually, the KC-Jags game was on my TV while I was watching a stream of the Bills-Jets, and the former was actually a miserable game to watch.

It was just a thorough ass whupping of the Jags.   As much as I dislike Jax' Thug Culture and Marrone, it was such a one-sided beatdown that you'd have to be a true KC fan to enjoy it.   @Zerovoltz must have been straining his lips smiling.

 

But the thing is, I'm just a fan, not a football guru.  If I wanted to make a profession of and be taken seriously as the latter, I'd watch the game before I flapped my mouth

 

8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It's a longstanding policy that I will never put credence into anyone or any organization that uses made-up statistics that use equations that no one truly understands.

 

 

Oh-ho you mean, like ESPN? (QBR)

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Oh-ho you mean, like ESPN? (QBR)

 

Exactamente, hapereenio.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, H2o said:

PFF is a  joke. A couple of dorks making YouTube videos and coming up with some numbers in their mom's basement. I don't pay attention to anything they say. I watch games and players for myself.  

winning answer 

[Mat68]

40 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Comments from a writer slanted toward Fantasy Football should not be the same as those of graders who actually watch the plays but I suspect those will not be flattering either.    As for me, I am ok with how he played for most of the nearly 70 plays he ran.

But you take out those 2 fluky Ints and he has a top 15 fantasy performance.  By and large Allen is a victim of pre draft analysis.  People look at the box score and put it into their own narrative, that fits their own bias.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mat68

[whatdrought]

Lol - they didn't watch the game. Clearly. 

[GreggTX]

He Well, he did throw 2 picks. What did you expect? Don't blame PFF for it. For the record, they are much better judges of talent than the vast majority of posters here that seem a bit starry eyed where there has been no real evidence to support it. Allen still has an awful lot to prove, yet most Bills fans talk like he's already done that. He hasn't. He threw several passes that he never should have and it should have been 3 picks, with that drop by Maye being the 3rd.

Edited September 9, 2019 by GreggTX

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Anyone who watched the game knows everyone of those turnovers was a bit unusual.  They pass to Beasley was a bad pass but 99-100 times that's an incomplete.  The fumble where Dawkins got beat wasn't a great play by Allen but it wasn't like he had poor pocket awareness, was looking downfield and got stripped.  The play was happening within his view and it look liked Dawkins had his block for a second.  The defender was able to get off quickly and it surprised Allen.  The other fumble was very unusual and I think Morse/Allen could snap another 1000 together and never have that happen again.  The second int was a batted ball which I think Allen and the coaches are going to have to be more aware of as a some of the dunks and screens they are using have a higher chance of being batted down.

 

Allen's worst pass of the game should have been picked at the goal line but was dropped.  This is why you do really have to watch the games and not listen to these PFF guys.  The other huge thing is every QB has really bad throws and make mistakes.  Josh Allen's are amplified because there are people already out there with an agenda looking to complete their narrative on him.  

 

Iv'e seen Brady, Manning, Roethlisburger, all of them throw some terrible INT's.  Peyton freaking Manning has several bad picks in playoff games including, INCLUDING, a pick 6 in the Super Bowl that clinched the loss.  How bad was that throw in overtime by Matt Stafford against Arizona?  Anyone who watched that knows Arizona should have won that game at the end because Matt Stafford pretty much gift wrapped a int that would have set the Cardinals up for and easy FG the would have won the game in OT.  The defender dropped it but it was worse than any play that Allen made yesterday.  Imagine if that was Allen. 

 

If Josh Allen had a 62% completion percentage in college at Auburn or some other SEC school, then was selected #1 overall, all the pundits today would talking about what we are talking about on this board right now, about his grit and how he came back with 2 TD drives in the 4th.  The ones of us that believe in him at least.  The narrative has already been laid out by the media and these guys are going to everything they can to back it up right up until it is undeniable that he is good-great.  Just watch the games and make your own opinion.  

 

I'll admit, somewhere around the middle of the 3rd quarter I was wondering to myself if I could make it on Hockey and Basketball alone, but overall I am excited.  I liked what I saw yesterday and most important we won.  Now let's see if they can fix the mistakes and have a more consistent offense this weekend. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by K-GunJimKelly12

[MikeSpeed]

I only listen to media people with the first name of Chris. As in Berman and Simms.

[NobesBLO13]

I was ready to be mildly annoyed until it was pointed out it’s for fantasy. Meh

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

PFF is a  joke. A couple of dorks making YouTube videos and coming up with some numbers in their mom's basement. I don't pay attention to anything they say. I watch games and players for myself.  

This is true.  They seem less knowledgeable than the die hard fans.  Also I know some people will argue this and I think it is part of the problem with Schopp, is they don't seem like athletes and probably haven't played the game much.  You cannot just read stats and think you know something better than the people who do it.

Edited September 9, 2019 by K-GunJimKelly12

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

[PlayoffsPlease]

7 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

He Well, he did throw 2 picks. What did you expect? Don't blame PFF for it. For the record, they are much better judges of talent than the vast majority of posters here that seem a bit starry eyed where there has been no real evidence to support it. Allen still has an awful lot to prove, yet most Bills fans talk like he's already done that. He hasn't. He threw several passes that he never should have and it should have been 3 picks, with that drop by Maye being the 3rd.

when evaluating yesterday's game, you first remove the Bills worst five plays and then you can do a proper analysis. Worrying about a Jets players drop is a job for the Jets fan forums. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

 

No comment on Singletary or the Defense, just hate on Josh Allen in both segments. 

 

Buffalo

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

 

thats good coming from them since they suk at their jobs. Schopp really wrote that.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

In contrast, Bill Barnwell seems to have actually watched the game and gives a fair and mostly positive analysis: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27572572/barnwell-week-1-five-most-surprising-qb-performances. Scroll down for his fairly long evaluation of Allen.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MJS]

I just don't get why they don't mention that both his INT's were tipped. How is that his fault? Darnold had like 10 balls tipped and none of them were INT's. Does that mean he is better than Josh?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

They don't hate Allen. 

 

They hate the idea that they may be wrong about Allen. 

 

 

 

they will be wrong

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

The fact that we opened up the game throwing 15 consecutive times or whatever the number was and moved the ball well should tell everyone what they need to know about Allen's development so far. He'll still make boneheaded plays here and there but the kid is ready now. Oddly enough, at least three of his four turnovers were of the flukey variety and it was two that were not recorded as turnovers (both deeper balls thrown down the field) that were more of the boneheaded play variety. 

 

I mean how many times did we get a hand on one of Darnold's passes only to not come away with the pick? 

[PirateHookerMD]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

I just don't get why they don't mention that both his INT's were tipped. How is that his fault? Darnold had like 10 balls tipped and none of them were INT's. Does that mean he is better than Josh?

 

To be fair he had two other throws that were likely picks that were drops. 

 

Overall though this is certainly a lazy analysis. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

we’re right and PFF is wrong.

PFF is a flawed system , not an exact science. 

I can personally care less, they use confirmation bias like no other site .

 

I thought it was a great team win on the road , against a divisional opponent . Josh did enough to win , I thought he was much better than Darnold in his backyard and that's all that matters.  He showed great composure for a guy making his 12th start

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said:

 

To be fair he had two other throws that were likely picks that were drops. 

 

Overall though this is certainly a lazy analysis. 

 

One for sure. The other was a penalty regardless of the outcome and would have been called back. There's no point, in my mind, on criticizing a QB for plays that don't even count.

 

Josh was not perfect, but this is just one of those games that has incredibly misleading stats.

[Kelly the Dog]

IMO, if you were a national guy, and didn't watch every Bills game, you could easily come out of that game thinking that Josh is more of the bad Josh than the good one. If you just saw highlights you surely would. You really have to have seen him play all of the games and know a lot about him and his supporting cast to feel like most of us do about him.

[VW82]

I really don't get all the PFF hate. Those guys have an excellent website IMO. They're basically doing what Dr Z (Paul Zimmerman from SI) did for all those years in watching every play of every game and isolating on each player, then grading them using a standardized grading rubric. It's detailed, objective analysis. Is there also opinion occasionally mixed in? Of course -- they're writers writing on a website. There are also zero other sites (as far as I'm aware) currently doing this for every NFL player. Perhaps the only reason we don't like them is because to date they've been hard on our young QB who has had his fair share of growing pains??  

Edited September 9, 2019 by VW82

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Comments from a writer slanted toward Fantasy Football should not be the same as those of graders who actually watch the plays but I suspect those will not be flattering either.    As for me, I am ok with how he played for most of the nearly 70 plays he ran.

Yeah, this is where I'm at. Kinda weird that he thinks Allen is that bad of a fantasy option though; I think he's pretty clearly going to be on the fringe of a top 12 fantasy guy this year.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Josh Allen is easily the most polarizing QB ive ever seen. 

 

Analytics guys hate him because he, up until yesterday, doesn't dink and dunk his way to 60% completion percentages. 

 

Draft guys apparently need to be right, while never admitting mistakes, so they hold onto this Wyoming view of Josh Allen.  

 

Then there's a handful of analysts that think he has superstar potential. 

 

Meanwhile, he somehow turns the ball over 4x yet wins the game and looks better than his draft counterparts Baker and Sam in Week 1.

 

 

I think good ole Tyrod can give him a serious run for his mopey in this dept.

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I really don't get all the PFF hate. Those guys have an excellent website IMO. They're basically doing what Dr Z (Paul Zimmerman from SI) did for all those years in watching every play of every game and isolating on each player, then grading them using a standardized grading rubric. It's detailed, objective analysis. Is there also opinion mixed in? Of course -- they're writers writing on a website. There are also zero other sites (as far as I'm aware) currently doing this for every NFL player. Perhaps the only reason we don't like them is because to date they've been hard on young QB who has had his fair share of growing pains??  

 

I agree.

 

From what they wrote, whether it be for Fantasy or not is actually pretty accurate.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Josh Allen is easily the most polarizing QB ive ever seen. 

 

Analytics guys hate him because he, up until yesterday, doesn't dink and dunk his way to 60% completion percentages. 

 

Draft guys apparently need to be right, while never admitting mistakes, so they hold onto this Wyoming view of Josh Allen.  

 

Then there's a handful of analysts that think he has superstar potential. 

 

Meanwhile, he somehow turns the ball over 4x yet wins the game and looks better than his draft counterparts Baker and Sam in Week 1.

Yeah. As The Wiz stated, there is no personal animosity towards JA, but there is some confirmation bias. And as of now, they still have statistics on their side.

 

Where I disagree entirely is that the good Josh Allen is somehow not real. There are without a doubt two Josh Allen's and I suspect that will be the story throughout his entire career. The question moving forward is this; can we see the good version somewhere in the 75 percent range?

[RoyBatty is alive]

21 minutes ago, MJS said:

I just don't get why they don't mention that both his INT's were tipped. How is that his fault? Darnold had like 10 balls tipped and none of them were INT's. Does that mean he is better than Josh?

 

Want to play that game it works both ways.  On Allen How about the one int that was called back due to a  penalty and the  Q4 drop by the Jet defends for an easy int.

[thenorthremembers]

The problem with the write-up is it's making sweeping generalizations based on less than a season worth of work.  Quoting the turnovers without context is foolish.  Saying "he is just not very good" is also a little bit of a stretch at this point.   But level headed doesnt really get the reaction they are looking for does it.     Much rather have a QB with nerves of steel go win us a game, than try and play it safe to appease PFF.  Its all a wait and see.

[billsfan_34]

PFF can piss off! Who cares lets just win. Take the turnovers away that weren’t on Josh and he is looking pretty darn good for minimal starts under his belt.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Want to play that game it works both ways.  On Allen How about the one int that was called back due to a  penalty and the  Q4 drop by the Jet defends for an easy int.

 

No, I don't want to play that game. I only consider actual plays that actually happened.

[billspro]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

They don't hate Allen. 

 

They hate the idea that they may be wrong about Allen. 

 

 

 

This is exactly what they are doing. It’s pretty silly to ignore the most important quarter. Bottom line with Josh is he is a gamer, he makes plays when we need it. He is also an analytic buster which is why PFF doesn’t like him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

34 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

Hot fuzz!

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

From a fantasy perspective - 4 turnovers is not good.

 

From an actual football perspective - a lot of it was out of his control, he looked generally more accurate than last year, and more poised.  Balls were getting out faster, his scrambling created some plays with his arm in addition to his legs.  All in all i saw development.