GG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference. Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show. All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense. But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him. Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Reports from camp this year were overwhelmingly positive for him comparatively speaking, IIRC, but yes, he failed to hold contain throughout much of the night against Carolina. I’m still not sure what to make of him honestly—I guess mostly I assume he’ll end up injured by Week 4 and be a non-story thereafter? Hope he proves us all wrong and has an all-pro renaissance season! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 He’s a good pass rusher that has been terrible with his responsibilities that don’t include pass rushing. He has a role on passing downs. While I think Shaq is a decent player, I also think he’s meant for the right side, which relegates his best play as a backup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Provided he stays healthy, he will be an important contributor and all the reports from camp and practice indicate that to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) Hmmmm. You're right. Id say we get these two on the case! Edited August 21, 2019 by DJB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, GG said: Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Murphy had 8 snaps vs the Colts and 14 vs the Panthers (vs. 8 and 21 for Lawson). Not a big body of work to judge him on, But with all his injuries, it looks like he's making progress getting healthy, which is step one for now... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Bring on johnson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lurker said: Murphy had 8 snaps vs the Colts and 14 vs the Panthers (vs. 8 and 21 for Lawson). Not a big body of work to judge him on, But with all his injuries, it looks like he's making progress getting healthy, which is step one for now... Simply comparing the effectiveness of his snaps to Lawson’s. Lawson looked better to the naked eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, GG said: I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference. Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show. All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense. But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him. Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field. I agree with your assessment. I've not been impressed with his play at all but by all reports he's healthy and ready to contribute. He may be listed as a starter but I expect him to be heavily rotated. Maybe holding back a bit since its preseason since there's no imminent danger of him being cut. Edited August 21, 2019 by billsbackto81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, NewEra said: He’s a good pass rusher that has been terrible with his responsibilities that don’t include pass rushing. He has a role on passing downs. While I think Shaq is a decent player, I also think he’s meant for the right side, which relegates his best play as a backup. Twice on pass rush plays I saw Murphy go from his side all the way to the opposite end. His ability to contain the qb from his side is lost. Jerry will be chasing the qb, who will Immediately roll out to Trent/Shaq's side. You'll see it all year. Unless they line up Ed over there? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 McD loves him because he absolutely oozes the “Process” with his gym work and attitude to training.. Thats pretty much all you need to know for 2019, and also considering his salary this year is pretty much guaranteed.. I agree though that it doesn’t mean he will always be fit to play and his recent history suggests he will miss more games than he plays.. If he has another patchy year this year with injury then we won’t see him back in 2020.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Twice on pass rush plays I saw Murphy go from his side all the way to the opposite end. His ability to contain the qb from his side is lost. Jerry will be chasing the qb, who will Immediately roll out to Trent/Shaq's side. You'll see it all year. Unless they line up Ed over there? This. He can generate some some pressure on occasion and get home, but FAR too often he's out of position both against the run and more importantly(in his case), against the pass. There's an art to an unofficial assisted sack and I don't think I've ever seen Murphy rack one up. Ideally, there are multiple guys forcing the QB to make a decision. If Murphy doesn't win his initial matchup, he's pretty much invisible. When healthy, he's not a worthless player, but he leaves alot to be desired. Shaq never gets home, but he's better WRT being in position to collapse the pocket when Hughes is closing in. I'm beating a dead horse, but I really don't like our DE unit as a whole. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 This thread should be called The Bloviation Station. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 You're missing the sample size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Pretty coordinated PR effort to talk up Murphy and I'm sure it has a lot to do with him being a McBeane guy whereas Shaq is not. The contract they handed him is something they've take heat for and now they're trying to highlight the player with him healthy. One wonders when they'll start in on Star Lotulelei. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: This. He can generate some some pressure on occasion and get home, but FAR too often he's out of position both against the run and more importantly(in his case), against the pass. There's an art to an unofficial assisted sack and I don't think I've ever seen Murphy rack one up. Ideally, there are multiple guys forcing the QB to make a decision. If Murphy doesn't win his initial matchup, he's pretty much invisible. When healthy, he's not a worthless player, but he leaves alot to be desired. Shaq never gets home, but he's better WRT being in position to collapse the pocket when Hughes is closing in. I'm beating a dead horse, but I really don't like our DE unit as a whole. This. This. This. That's all. Edit: well not quite all..... Murphy thinks "the edge" is just a guitarist in U2. Edited August 21, 2019 by GunnerBill 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Coaches see more than us , trust the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, GG said: I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference. Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show. All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense. But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him. Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field. Agree 100%, but I think the expectations for him were way overblown when the Bills signed him. The Bills talked him up as a big signing but he was not an elite player in Washington. He is just an average rotational DE. Edited August 21, 2019 by vincec 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Maybe he needs some more performance enhancing drugs to maintain his mediocrity 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 hours ago, GG said: Simply comparing the effectiveness of his snaps to Lawson’s. Lawson looked better to the naked eye. He's simply getting used to being healthy again, IMO. Like driving a new car for the first time in a long while, you don't go full out into the turns or keep the pedal to the metal until you gain more confidence in how it handles. Regular season is still weeks away, IIRC, Bruce Smith looked like a scrub in preseason every year. Not comparing Murphy to the GOAT, but not going to over-scrutinize 22 snaps as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 He had a good game in limited action last week, I assume that’s why they are talking about him. It’s a good sign that he’s healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 After a few big gains are busted off on run plays to his side McDermott and Frazier will use him as what he is, a situational pass rusher who can get you 8-10 sacks a year when healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Coaches see more than us , trust the process. I think I heard this same thing said when McDermott named Peterman the starter last year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have always viewed Murphy as serviceable and as a stopgap measure. Beane says a fair amount that I view as smoke but I believe him when he says build a team through the draft. I fully expect the Bills to draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Start Shaq, let Murphy come in on passing downs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Bring on johnson Yes he dominates against guys that will be on the practice squad.? 8 hours ago, GG said: Simply comparing the effectiveness of his snaps to Lawson’s. Lawson looked better to the naked eye. Thats a good thing. Lawson seems really motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Lol. Murphy has been our best pass rusher against first team OLs this preseason. I'll trade his frequent pressure for losing the occasional contain. This is just more narrative bias. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 hours ago, GG said: I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference. Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show. All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense. But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him. Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field. Don't forget this time of year is 100% about 1 on 1 battles for the line, with no scheme. Also it's not fair to look at preseason game film and say "Player X with the 1s is being out played by Player Y with the 2s"... and even when they rotate with the 1s, it's not apples to apples. On a given play in preseason, since the defense is not running a set scheme, you don't know for sure what any player is being asked to do. Just as a for instance, on certain plays during the regular season they could line up and send Murphy after the QB, but in preseason they choose to instead have him drop back into coverage, or stunt inside to practice something with Oliver, etc... They could be asking him to pass rush more and flush out into edge protection less because they're running a "broken contain" play with the LBer and DBs to see how they react to the DE not setting the edge properly. Not that they are asking him to blow his coverage, but rather "Rush the passer regardless of the read" and see what happens, because the game doesn't mean anything. It's better to see some different looks and get different reps... This type of stuff is why controlled scrimmages are preferable for coaches than preseason games. It gives them the ability to do more of that kind of stuff in more controlled circumstances. I am not making excuses for him, I agree Murphy hasn't been "lighting it up" but in camp he was hailed as REALLY coming back with a vengeance after a poor outing last year. I look forward to see him in Week 3 where there will be more game planning. See if he shows up on the field and in the stat book more. But part of why people need to take preseason with a grain of salt is the offenses and defenses are vanilla, and the coaches are flushing out scenarios still, so we don't 100% know where O-Linemen or D-Linemen, or what have you are supposed to be doing on a given play, because it's not necessarily what they'd be doing in a real game. Especially in weeks 1 and 2. In week 3 it's a dress rehearsal at 75% speed, so we should get a better look, but week 4 is 100% "prove it or get cut" time for the bottom of the roster and they will be creating all kinds of situational football to test guys rather than suit up and play their "best game" start to finish. 36 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Yes he dominates against guys that will be on the practice squad.? Thats a good thing. Lawson seems really motivated. Shaq not getting the 5th year option was the right move by the team and the right move for the player. He didn't deserve the $10M per year it would guarantee, but putting him in a prove it hear to step up and become the guy he was drafted to be hopefully will light a fire under him. If he earns that $10M per year contract this year, then pay the man, if not, then make an offer commensurate with his abilities or let him walk. I agree, sounds like he's stepping up. Shaq has proven to be a FANTASTIC edge setter, but you don't pay edge setters pass rusher money... so this is a HUGE year for him to show he can be the pass rusher he was drafted to be out of Clemson. I hope he gets there. Hell I hope he and Murphy both have a "sack off" where they battle for who gets more lol Back to Johnson... I like what I've seen from him, he has natural instincts to get to the passer, you can't teach that. But he is raw in technique and his body build is less than it should be for the NFL. He should make the roster, and after a year in the NFL and a full NFL off-season to build up body mass and work on technique, maybe next year we will see something of note from him. heck even by the end of the year we should start to see it come together if he is going to become something. But I Agree, him coming into his own thus far has shown he's more depth for now because thankfully we have solid depth ahead of him 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Murphy and a third for Clowney. It’s a slow rolling process. Bills are getting it out there through osmosis. Texans get something for Clowney and can replace him with Murphy. Win/win 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Well, I'm sold that McDermott and Frazier have some secret agenda to pump up Murphy now. I definitely trust people on here over them when it comes to defense. They haven't had the results there to earn my trust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Murphy is terrible against the run; he doesn't stay disciplined to his lane. All teams have to do is run toward his side, and chances are it will be a big gain to the outside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 hours ago, GG said: I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference. Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show. All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense. But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him. Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year. Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field. What happens in practice matters a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Murphy is terrible against the run; he doesn't stay disciplined to his lane. All teams have to do is run toward his side, and chances are it will be a big gain to the outside. In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He was a pass rushing specialist for them, and at the end of the day he's going to remain a pass rushing specialist . However, this is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer regularly is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder whose best attribute is effectively setting the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). Edited August 21, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He's a pass rushing specialist at the end of the day. THis is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder who can effectively set the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). This is the first time I've seen this board care more about setting the edge than getting to the passer. What happened to "this is a passing league!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: This is the first time I've seen this board care more about setting the edge than getting to the passer. What happened to "this is a passing league!!!" I know this was to david mcbride, but I just wanna throw in... I referenced Shaq's ability to set the edge as a major asset, and I recognize Murphy's less than stellar talent at doing so. I don't think people are advocating for Shaq over murphy because he can set the edge, I think what people are saying is that if Shaq continues to impress and puts up the sacks to go along with his edge setting, he becomes a true starter for us and a must re-sign. As of right now Shaq looks good because he's doing what he needs to do setting the edge, and he showed some moves to get to the passer against #2s... Murphy is showing he doesn't set the edge well, and he too got to the passer. So just based on that comparable, it looks like Shaq is playing better. I disagree because, like I said ealier, you can't directly compare success against 1s and 2s, plus you never know what matchups and calls are actually being made in preseason. This is a great camp battle to have, hopefully it gets the best out of both guys... at the end of the day a pass rusher is WAAAY more valuable than an edge setter. You can get edge setter DEs mid to late in the draft and as rotational DEs in FA all over the place. Shaq is VERY good at it, but if he cant rush the passer he's hit his ceiling as a rotational DE with lower upside. Murphy has a nose for the QB, but lacks in run stuffing... but if he returns to 9-10+ sack form, he's still far more valuable on the field than Shaq because of the % of pass versus run in today's NFL. And you can get a cheaper rotational run stuffer DE for sure rushing situations for cheaper than Shaq ... This year will determine Shaq or Murphy long term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) Shaq/Murphy rotation. Shaq until pass rushing downs. That's fine. Even if Shaq is inadvertently in on a passing down, the pressure from Hughes and Oliver will force the QB to him, and he's capable at cleanup. Not a bad combo to have. Can't have a Hughes at every DL position. I think we address this with a stud in next years draft or FA. Edited August 21, 2019 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MR8 said: I know this was to david mcbride, but I just wanna throw in... I referenced Shaq's ability to set the edge as a major asset, and I recognize Murphy's less than stellar talent at doing so. I don't think people are advocating for Shaq over murphy because he can set the edge, I think what people are saying is that if Shaq continues to impress and puts up the sacks to go along with his edge setting, he becomes a true starter for us and a must re-sign. As of right now Shaq looks good because he's doing what he needs to do setting the edge, and he showed some moves to get to the passer against #2s... Murphy is showing he doesn't set the edge well, and he too got to the passer. So just based on that comparable, it looks like Shaq is playing better. I disagree because, like I said ealier, you can't directly compare success against 1s and 2s, plus you never know what matchups and calls are actually being made in preseason. This is a great camp battle to have, hopefully it gets the best out of both guys... at the end of the day a pass rusher is WAAAY more valuable than an edge setter. You can get edge setter DEs mid to late in the draft and as rotational DEs in FA all over the place. Shaq is VERY good at it, but if he cant rush the passer he's hit his ceiling as a rotational DE with lower upside. Murphy has a nose for the QB, but lacks in run stuffing... but if he returns to 9-10+ sack form, he's still far more valuable on the field than Shaq because of the % of pass versus run in today's NFL. And you can get a cheaper rotational run stuffer DE for sure rushing situations for cheaper than Shaq ... This year will determine Shaq or Murphy long term. Agreed. My issue with Lawson is his physical ability in the pass rush game. Frankly, he's just not quick (a "leaner" as @BADOLBILZmemorably described him the day he was drafted), and against a decent RT, he's going to be handled. Forget lining him up against a decent LT. Now maybe he gets strong enough where he can be bull-rushing beast that can created havoc via that method, but I'll need to see him do that with some regularity first. Barring injury, he's likely to have a long career in the NFL as relatively inexpensive d-line depth, but he's a classic replacement-level starter up to this point. Edited August 21, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Agreed. My issue with Lawson is his physical ability in the pass rush game. Frankly, he's just not quick (a "leaner" as @BADOLBILZmemorably described him the day he was drafted), and against a decent RT, he's going to be handled. Forget lining him up against a decent LT. Now maybe he gets strong enough where he can be bull-rushing beast that can created havoc via that method, but I'll need to see him do that with some regularity first. Barring injury, he's likely to have a long career in the NFL as d-line depth, but he's a classic replacement-level starter up to this point. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The one thing I would say is some guys who are undersized and by "measurables" have no place in making it in the NFL - A LA Kyle Williams, still do... Just devil's advocate, Shaq hasn't proven he can be more than what he's shown thus far... I hope he does, but I don't think he will. Which is why I was glad they didn't pick up his option. He's not good enough to warrant $10M per year. That's pass rusher money, and he's just a top end rotational depth player. I'd re-sign him to the right deal, but I think another team will give him more to see if he can be more in a different scheme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Coaches see more than us , trust the process. Signed: Nate Peterman's Mom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He was a pass rushing specialist for them, and at the end of the day he's going to remain a pass rushing specialist . However, this is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer regularly is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder whose best attribute is effectively setting the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). I don't think there would be as big of an issue if this is how he would be used. I just found it odd that there was a big PR blitz praising Murphy's play, when the eye test didn't pass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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