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Trent Murphy - What Am I Missing?


GG

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After a few big gains are busted off on run plays to his side McDermott and Frazier will use him as what he is, a situational pass rusher who can get you 8-10 sacks a year when healthy. 

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I have always viewed Murphy as serviceable and as a stopgap measure.  Beane says a fair amount that I view as smoke but I believe him when he says build a team through the draft.  I fully expect the Bills to draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round next year.  

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8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Bring on johnson

Yes he dominates against guys that will be on the practice squad.?

8 hours ago, GG said:

 

Simply comparing the effectiveness of his snaps to Lawson’s. Lawson looked better to the naked eye.

Thats a good thing.  Lawson seems really motivated.

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9 hours ago, GG said:

I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference.  Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show.   All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense.

 

But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him.  Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year.  Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field.

 

Don't forget this time of year is 100% about 1 on 1 battles for the line, with no scheme.  Also it's not fair to look at preseason game film and say "Player X with the 1s is being out played by Player Y with the 2s"... and even when they rotate with the 1s, it's not apples to apples.

 

On a given play in preseason, since the defense is not running a set scheme, you don't know for sure what any player is being asked to do.  Just as a for instance, on certain plays during the regular season they could line up and send Murphy after the QB, but in preseason they choose to instead have him drop back into coverage, or stunt inside to practice something with Oliver, etc...  They could be asking him to pass rush more and flush out into edge protection less because they're running a "broken contain" play with the LBer and DBs to see how they react to the DE not setting the edge properly.  Not that they are asking him to blow his coverage, but rather "Rush the passer regardless of the read" and see what happens, because the game doesn't mean anything.  It's better to see some different looks and get different reps...

 

This type of stuff is why controlled scrimmages are preferable for coaches than preseason games.  It gives them the ability to do more of that kind of stuff in more controlled circumstances.

 

I am not making excuses for him, I agree Murphy hasn't been "lighting it up" but in camp he was hailed as REALLY coming back with a vengeance after a poor outing last year.  I look forward to see him in Week 3 where there will be more game planning.  See if he shows up on the field and in the stat book more.  

 

But part of why people need to take preseason with a grain of salt is the offenses and defenses are vanilla, and the coaches are flushing out scenarios still, so we don't 100% know where O-Linemen or D-Linemen, or what have you are supposed to be doing on a given play, because it's not necessarily what they'd be doing in a real game.  Especially in weeks 1 and 2.  In week 3 it's a dress rehearsal at 75% speed, so we should get a better look, but week 4 is 100% "prove it or get cut" time for the bottom of the roster and they will be creating all kinds of situational football to test guys rather than suit up and play their "best game" start to finish.

36 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Yes he dominates against guys that will be on the practice squad.?

Thats a good thing.  Lawson seems really motivated.

 

Shaq not getting the 5th year option was the right move by the team and the right move for the player.  He didn't deserve the $10M per year it would guarantee, but putting him in a prove it hear to step up and become the guy he was drafted to be hopefully will light a fire under him.  If he earns that $10M per year contract this year, then pay the man, if not, then make an offer commensurate with his abilities or let him walk.  I agree, sounds like he's stepping up.

 

Shaq has proven to be a FANTASTIC edge setter, but you don't pay edge setters pass rusher money... so this is a HUGE year for him to show he can be the pass rusher he was drafted to be out of Clemson.  I hope he gets there.  Hell I hope he and Murphy both have a "sack off" where they battle for who gets more lol  

 

Back to Johnson... I like what I've seen from him, he has natural instincts to get to the passer, you can't teach that.  But he is raw in technique and his body build is less than it should be for the NFL.  He should make the roster, and after a year in the NFL and a full NFL off-season to build up body mass and work on technique, maybe next year we will see something of note from him.  heck even by the end of the year we should start to see it come together if he is going to become something.  But I Agree, him coming into his own thus far has shown he's more depth for now because thankfully we have solid depth ahead of him

 

 

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10 hours ago, GG said:

I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference.  Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show.   All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense.

 

But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him.  Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year.  Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field.

What happens in practice matters a ton. 

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7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Murphy is terrible against the run; he doesn't stay disciplined to his lane.  All teams have to do is run toward his side, and chances are it will be a big gain to the outside.

In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He was a pass rushing specialist for them, and at the end of the day he's going to remain a pass rushing specialist . However, this is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer regularly is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder whose best attribute is effectively setting the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). 

Edited by dave mcbride
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Just now, dave mcbride said:

In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He's a pass rushing specialist at the end of the day. THis is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder who can effectively set the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). 

 

This is the first time I've seen this board care more about setting the edge than getting to the passer.  What happened to "this is a passing league!!!" 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is the first time I've seen this board care more about setting the edge than getting to the passer.  What happened to "this is a passing league!!!" 

 

I know this was to david mcbride, but I just wanna throw in...

 

I referenced Shaq's ability to set the edge as a major asset, and I recognize Murphy's less than stellar talent at doing so.  I don't think people are advocating for Shaq over murphy because he can set the edge, I think what people are saying is that if Shaq continues to impress and puts up the sacks to go along with his edge setting, he becomes a true starter for us and a must re-sign.

 

As of right now Shaq looks good because he's doing what he needs to do setting the edge, and he showed some moves to get to the passer against #2s...  Murphy is showing he doesn't set the edge well, and he too got to the passer.  So just based on that comparable, it looks like Shaq is playing better.  I disagree because, like I said ealier, you can't directly compare success against 1s and 2s, plus you never know what matchups and calls are actually being made in preseason. 

 

This is a great camp battle to have, hopefully it gets the best out of both guys... at the end of the day a pass rusher is WAAAY more valuable than an edge setter.  You can get edge setter DEs mid to late in the draft and as rotational DEs in FA all over the place.  Shaq is VERY good at it, but if he cant rush the passer he's hit his ceiling as a rotational DE with lower upside.  Murphy has a nose for the QB, but lacks in run stuffing... but if he returns to 9-10+ sack form, he's still far more valuable on the field than Shaq because of the % of pass versus run in today's NFL.  And you can get a cheaper rotational run stuffer DE for sure rushing situations for cheaper than Shaq ...

 

This year will determine Shaq or Murphy long term. 

 

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Shaq/Murphy rotation.  Shaq until pass rushing downs.  That's fine.  Even if Shaq is inadvertently in on a passing down, the pressure from Hughes and Oliver will force the QB to him, and he's capable at cleanup.  

 

Not a bad combo to have.   Can't have a Hughes at every DL position.  I think we address this with a stud in next years draft or FA.  

Edited by RyanC883
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6 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

I know this was to david mcbride, but I just wanna throw in...

 

I referenced Shaq's ability to set the edge as a major asset, and I recognize Murphy's less than stellar talent at doing so.  I don't think people are advocating for Shaq over murphy because he can set the edge, I think what people are saying is that if Shaq continues to impress and puts up the sacks to go along with his edge setting, he becomes a true starter for us and a must re-sign.

 

As of right now Shaq looks good because he's doing what he needs to do setting the edge, and he showed some moves to get to the passer against #2s...  Murphy is showing he doesn't set the edge well, and he too got to the passer.  So just based on that comparable, it looks like Shaq is playing better.  I disagree because, like I said ealier, you can't directly compare success against 1s and 2s, plus you never know what matchups and calls are actually being made in preseason. 

 

This is a great camp battle to have, hopefully it gets the best out of both guys... at the end of the day a pass rusher is WAAAY more valuable than an edge setter.  You can get edge setter DEs mid to late in the draft and as rotational DEs in FA all over the place.  Shaq is VERY good at it, but if he cant rush the passer he's hit his ceiling as a rotational DE with lower upside.  Murphy has a nose for the QB, but lacks in run stuffing... but if he returns to 9-10+ sack form, he's still far more valuable on the field than Shaq because of the % of pass versus run in today's NFL.  And you can get a cheaper rotational run stuffer DE for sure rushing situations for cheaper than Shaq ...

 

This year will determine Shaq or Murphy long term. 

 

Agreed. My issue with Lawson is his physical ability in the pass rush game. Frankly, he's just not quick (a "leaner" as @BADOLBILZmemorably described him the day he was drafted), and against a decent RT, he's going to be handled. Forget lining him up against a decent LT. Now maybe he gets strong enough where he can be bull-rushing beast that can created havoc via that method, but I'll need to see him do that with some regularity first. Barring injury, he's likely to have a long career in the NFL as relatively inexpensive d-line depth, but he's a classic replacement-level starter up to this point. 

Edited by dave mcbride
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5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. My issue with Lawson is his physical ability in the pass rush game. Frankly, he's just not quick (a "leaner" as @BADOLBILZmemorably described him the day he was drafted), and against a decent RT, he's going to be handled. Forget lining him up against a decent LT. Now maybe he gets strong enough where he can be bull-rushing beast that can created havoc via that method, but I'll need to see him do that with some regularity first. Barring injury, he's likely to have a long career in the NFL as d-line depth, but he's a classic replacement-level starter up to this point. 

 

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The one thing I would say is some guys who are undersized and by "measurables" have no place in making it in the NFL - A LA Kyle Williams, still do... Just devil's advocate, Shaq hasn't proven he can be more than what he's shown thus far... I hope he does, but I don't think he will.  Which is why I was glad they didn't pick up his option.  He's not good enough to warrant $10M per year.  That's pass rusher money, and he's just a top end rotational depth player. 

 

I'd re-sign him to the right deal, but I think another team will give him more to see if he can be more in a different scheme. 

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33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He was a pass rushing specialist for them, and at the end of the day he's going to remain a pass rushing specialist . However, this is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer regularly is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder whose best attribute is effectively setting the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). 

 

I don't think there would be as big of an issue if this is how he would be used.  

 

I just found it odd that there was a big PR blitz praising Murphy's play, when the eye test didn't pass it.

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